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Is it just busywork to remove the hard dependency on DDi?

 

e.g. Is it only referenced in script, or is there reference to it Conditions or something?

 

 

I've got Zaz 8 and DD, and a lot of SLAL packs in my game right now, and have had for as long as there's been a Zaz 8.

 

The only people who ran out of animations with those two had some extreme number of SLAL packs, and probably installed all of the FB stuff without regard to its useful application in their game.

 

My problem with Zaz is that unlike SLAL it forces all its animations on me as an all or nothing. I can't pick and choose what I want out of it.

 

It needs to be more modular.

 

Let's say all I want is cages and cuffs?

I don't need any dances, or water wheels, or beds.

Let's say I only want enough to support PoP?

 

 

In practice that's not a deal-breaker, but if animations keep piling up, it will be.

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5 hours ago, t.ara said:

As long a quest-job is only communicating with the one or the other framework, it might be possible to let ZAP and DD coexist without any problems. We saw this with the whiterun-brothel-revamped-mod of HUGES RECON which handled both frameworks all together.

 

I think so far, that you can install ZAP 9 and the DD - family also in future, side by side, without getting into troubles. This both together is of course a MASSIVE DIMENSION FOR THE SKYRIM GAMEPLAY.

 

FWIW, I have DDi/DDx 4.2, DCL 8.3, ZAP8+ CBBE HDT, a lot of the 'core' SL mods, a whole bunch of SLAL packs and nearly 240 ESM/ESPs all running fine in my main game - with LOADS of merged clothing and follower mods within those - which I'm currently using to do a complete base game playthrough, presently on save 3788, for the first time LOL.  ReSaver shows the current save to be basically 'clean'

 

So ZAP and DD seem to be able to work together very nicely.  For me, they pretty much always have, but I'm quite careful, read the mod threads and the set up instructions properly, and take steps to try to avoid any particular quirks identified until they've been fixed   

 

(I do still have to try ZAP8+ and DD4.3 together, but I can't see why they can't equally co-exist)

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2 hours ago, t.ara said:

As soon I have access to the script property, I could add ZAP and correct the red "things".:classic_biggrin:

Nice work, and so nice to see ZAP and DD working together 👍

 

Maybe i can help with the script property access? I'm still a complete noobie though in modding, i have never manage to compile a script yet... errors that i don't understand. But i can edit properties of furnitures:

 

Spoiler

zadc.png.0f809a8aaf9c3caf948eb3cba23e375e.png

 

All you need to be able to use those is having installed also scripts (and maybe their sources too) for every dependency mod. That includes SkyUI, SLAroused, Sexlab and all DD at least... not to forget Skyrim and SKSE scripts. Creation Kit cannot find them from BSA's. Unless you meant something else?

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57 minutes ago, thedarkone1234 said:

- A request: Will it be possible to let a single Pole item have all the options, and let us choose which pose we want?

Yes, please. That would be great :classic_happy:

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45 minutes ago, t.ara said:

Hello,

I´m sure KIMY will react on this answer little more in detail. Anyway: This settings of the furnitures are made to put off all cloth and start the furniture-sit-in. This is a suiting and well thought way to surround tons of conflicts. If cloth is available also in furnitures, it is necessary to scan the slots and depending which slots are used is then the cloth unequipped. TECHNICALLY you can not realize that with furnitures, which USE AO-objects (the chains and restraints, because this assets do not point to a BODY-relevant slot. This is a problem caused by the mixing of both stuff (AO´s and restraints as clothing together)-in that case has the furniture to carry the keywords for "has wrist-cuffs", "has ankle-cuffs", "has collar" and so on. Such keywords would in that case NOT allow to use for example weared collars or ankle-irons-so they get unequipped in that case. ZAP has luckily such a function and I can suggest to add this feature also into this framework-with a handful of furnitures it´s now the best time to think exactly about such mechanics-no question.

Otherwise is a slave a slave. If it´s with this furnitures fact, that the slaves are naked, then we have to accept that. A possibility would anyway be fine-no question. It´s of course possible to add.

A furniture has so far in all packs ONE suiting asset which is bound to one ore some animations. ZAP has a multiple-pole, which can show by script different poses and add suiting AO-shackles with it: the shackle-wall and the "shackle-pole". This are "special" furnitures with dedicated "hardware" to work in about 5 or 6 different poses. This framework could maybe be tuned for such sorts of furniture with an "display" option, to choose before the entering, in which pose the player becomes locked into it. To me it´s a little strange-slaves haven´t choose something:-) Anyway if KIMY likes also to overtake thos furniture exactly, the framework needs a smart "addition".

 

From my point of view, I suggest to build up some furnitures in the style of SUPERTIN´s texture and his design to honor his detailed work he put inside of this series in a more complete way: (this is for me a "warming up" to put some first stuff into this mod, as long you like my list so far. You should think at first of some BASICS.

 

 

-pillory

-some wheels in different height (like ZAP has)

-a simple bondage pole with different poses and functions

-torture-pole series (5 different poses are here interesting)

-vertical-stock (maybe with a penetration-option)

-wrist- and ankle- and collar- ropes for the furnitures - maybe in the thin style of his beautiful-bodyrope-textures

 

And after that I could maybe add the vanilla furnitures (e.g. shackle-wall/kneeling tied) and start with ZAP.

 

Anyway do I like to have a "go" together with KIMY. DDC is not my mod:-)) I´ll help with my skills and you carefully think about what you like to have-I give some suggestions and you should choose from some suggestions. If you see something nice in ZAP (9), we can also add that-NO PROBLEM.

 

That was my point. As this mod is currently in creation, it makes more sense to set each and every furniture with which DD slots it allows and which it doesn't. As far as I understand how DD works, it should be easy enough to do so, just tiresome if you first make all furniture and later go over them.

 

For instance, all furniture that exist so far should allow gags, blindfolds and hoods to be worn, most of them should allow boots and gloves and nearly non should allow hobble skirts.

 

Since it is after all a DD mod, and since it is also explicitly written in the mod's description I think the extra work of allowing DD to remain visible is warranted ;) 

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2 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said:

That was my point. As this mod is currently in creation, it makes more sense to set each and every furniture with which DD slots it allows and which it doesn't. As far as I understand how DD works, it should be easy enough to do so, just tiresome if you first make all furniture and later go over them.

 

For instance, all furniture that exist so far should allow gags, blindfolds and hoods to be worn, most of them should allow boots and gloves and nearly non should allow hobble skirts.

 

Since it is after all a DD mod, and since it is also explicitly written in the mod's description I think the extra work of allowing DD to remain visible is warranted ;) 

That was indeed one of DDC's major design criteria: I wanted it to work flawlessly with wearable DD devices. It's really super-easy to set up in DDC. There is a FormList in the furniture script properties you can use to tell the code which class of devices to display and which to hide. No actual coding required! :)

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18 hours ago, t.ara said:

This mod has herewith a perfect start with custom-made furnitures which shine with their own unique textures and it´s own designs.

I have collected all the new files into the new pack and uploaded it here for you.......

I called it "Version 1.0",

I think KIMY is agreeing, to put it here for your quick access and test.

 

:classic_biggrin::classic_biggrin::classic_biggrin:

 

Please read the guide-lines (DDC ReadMe.txt) to have also access to the DDCTestZone.

As I could btw. test the hobble skirt: more hotter jumping is not possible;-)))

 

->delete the older versions in whole !!!, and then install this version (the DEMO at riverwood will work same way aside this version)

->run FNIS (orange), please !!!

 

Enjoy!

Devious Devices Contraptions.V.1.0.7z 39.82 MB · 49 downloa

Fantastic!!!! I will give it a test-run a bit later, and make the new archive the official download!

 

Thank you so much for looking into this and fixing all this stuff! :)

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So I gave this new version a test. Seemed to work for the most part. Great job! Some observations:

 

-Did notice that when I was doing the self-bondage mode, but cancelled at the timer setting, I still got stuck. Somehow.

 

-When the character started those automatic struggles, sometimes the audio moans would overlap (like two files were playing at once).

 

-Gags and chastity belts do not show up in none of the furnitures, and worn plugs seem to get "inert" and do nothing. They reappear after getting out.

 

Sorry if these are limitations of the current version, or an issue on my end, but I figure I would report all I found.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Kimy said:

That was indeed one of DDC's major design criteria: I wanted it to work flawlessly with wearable DD devices. It's really super-easy to set up in DDC. There is a FormList in the furniture script properties you can use to tell the code which class of devices to display and which to hide. No actual coding required! :)

Sweet, but this is something you or Tara or another modder does, right? If it is on us users, I am gonna need a little guide XD

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2 hours ago, Viri1 said:

So I gave this new version a test. Seemed to work for the most part. Great job! Some observations:

 

-Did notice that when I was doing the self-bondage mode, but cancelled at the timer setting, I still got stuck. Somehow.

 

-When the character started those automatic struggles, sometimes the audio moans would overlap (like two files were playing at once).

 

-Gags and chastity belts do not show up in none of the furnitures, and worn plugs seem to get "inert" and do nothing. They reappear after getting out.

 

Sorry if these are limitations of the current version, or an issue on my end, but I figure I would report all I found.

 

 

The cancel part is a problem on your end. Didn't have it.

The automatic struggle sounds overlapping: maybe you started your own struggle while an automatic was running? (Still a thing that should be fixed, though)

The fact all bondage disappears is a thing which is going to be fixed, but not in the current version yet.

 

That is from what I gather / guess.

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1 hour ago, thedarkone1234 said:

The cancel part is a problem on your end. Didn't have it.

The automatic struggle sounds overlapping: maybe you started your own struggle while an automatic was running? (Still a thing that should be fixed, though)

The fact all bondage disappears is a thing which is going to be fixed, but not in the current version yet.

 

That is from what I gather / guess.

Regarding the struggle sounds, nope. I wasn't touching any button. But I'm betting it was something on my end.

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Damn, just tried furnitures in testzone and its great! I'm hyped! 

 

One thing: Looks like its incompatibile with high heels, so for now it should auto strip boots. 

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I hope this means that we see a whole load more devices in Dragonar that Kimy thought she was originally limited to.

 

That would be awesome.

 

From what I'm reading, it would be possible to remove the hard dependency on DD ... but why?

Isn't the point that DDC is DD compatible? If you just want a furniture mod that doesn't use DD, there already is one of those.

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@t.ara Was there a furniture where player is arms up hanging from some chain/rope from roof?

 

I remember CD had one of those in the house but feet where on ground and propably spread too with ankle cuffs to floor.

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4 hours ago, t.ara said:

Our known and famous Pillory with idle and struggle animation-in Tin´s style, completely with his yoke-lock!

🥳 🥂 Hooray!

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Haha, whenever I think I can now add the overhauled DDC release to the official download, there is a new version! :D

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Suggestion for integration with SexLab Aroused: animation in furniture changes depending on arousal level. Like, non-aroused: standing still, looking angry or sad, scared; small arousal: more comfy, relaxed pose; highly arousal: lewd pose, etc. 

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The two approaches (what T.ara calls "real furniture" vs "existing method") are not exclusive, but complementary.

 

Which approach is best can be a case-by-case decision.

 

The practical reality of furniture, is that despite years of effort by T.ara and predecessors, furniture is still mostly used as little more than atmospheric decoration in most mods that use it at all.

 

If we want this to change, the problem is not so much "How can we have a furniture with ten different texture variations?" but "How can we have a furniture that is accessible, usable and easily customised by modders?"

 

Yes, markers for entry and exit are quite important for that - but not for every furniture.

 

 

A flaw in Zaz, as it stands, which apparently hits a blind spot in T.ara's approach is that without better camera controls many Zaz furniture items are practically unusable for the player and are fit only for NPCs.

 

Some furniture items desperately need a built-in, marker-driven, third-person camera configuration - so the modder can put a marker for where the camera will look FROM and it will automatically look AT the player's centroid. The modder just needs to get the camera far enough away to get a good result.

But that is just a small part of the problem.

 

 

Until it's understood why the meaningful use of furniture in mods is currently so uncommon, T.ara's lovely-looking work will be mostly wasted.

 

There are (as far as I'm aware) only two quest-driven mods that made any serious use of furniture: Sex Slaves (Mia's Lair) and Whiterun Brothel (revamped).

One of these is now looking very old fashioned, and the other has simply been removed entirely by its author.

T.ara has made mods, yes, but they are not quest mods, they're more like sandbox tech-demos.

Paradise Halls is probably the best use-case for furniture, but it's NPC-centric; for PaH furniture doesn't have to work well for the PC.

I know this just tempts people to post counter examples. But seriously, are any of those mods you're thinking of right now really dependent on that furniture? And please, don't bring up Naked Dungeons - it's not a quest mod - just keep reading.

 

 

I don't have all the answers. This is a question that T.ara, and others, need to think about. But...

 

  • How can furniture stop being about assets and start being about gameplay?
  • How can we stop worrying so much about animation counts, or player or furniture model swap-mechanics, and instead make it easy for modders to customise and use?
  • Is the idea of "making" modders have to include an absolutely huge mod package just to get a couple of devices they want to use, a problem?

 

I believe Kimy thought about how people might actually use furnitures a lot, and came up with a player, rather than modder-centric answer.

This is interesting, but it's not central to making furniture more useful in mods.

 

 

As an anecdote, I made a quest mod some years ago that relied on Zaz 7.

I found that part of it - Zaz 7 - to be one of its biggest problems. There were other issues too, but they aren't relevant.

 

 

There was this huge library set of code that tried to do everything, and I wasted weeks reading though that stuff, trying to understand how to use it, before I realised it was ... unfinished vaporware with a few semi-working features. That library doesn't need to exist and just confuses new modders who want to use Zaz.

 

The essential basics of getting the PC in and out of furniture were ... not great ... and cage entry was ... mostly broken. And more importantly, that useful functionality was buried in a lot of irrelevant stuff.

 

In comparison, a modder can get started with DD by reading ONE file, and they can get instant results that really work.

 

 

There was a huge library of items (already, in Zaz 7, and now there are more). Too many really.

 

I didn't need to add all those items to a game, and probably, an end user of my mod would only need the tiny handful of items I was using: a cage, the ceiling chains, wall shackles, etc. It would make way more sense to just add the tiny number of assets I needed to my own mod.

 

At the time it was no issue as everyone installed Zaz just for the SexLab features, even though it was never really needed for that. There are still modern mods that play their sex scenes through it. I don't know why they do so.

 

 

It was a huge struggle to make a scene where the player would be in a furniture and NPCs would interact with them.

I tried to put a cage on the back of a wagon and make it move. I wasted weeks on that foolish errand. I believe it can be done, but at the time, I lacked the knowledge.

 

 

In the end I thought the whole mod relied too much on scenes where the player had no input - they were just cut-scenes with no interaction.

I was hung up on storytelling, not game play.

 

 

If there are no built-in actions the player can take in a furniture, it's probably always going to be like that.

 

Furniture, needs, as a default, the sort of interactions we have in DD:

 

e.g.

  • Escape => Strain, Wriggle, Pick Lock
  • Endure => Passive resistance
  • Accept => Give in
  • Beg => Plead with your captors for mercy/release
  • Scream => Scream in agony/misery - perhaps your captors like this?
  • Shout for Help => Left alone? Shout for somebody to come and let you out.

 

Depending on the furniture, choices might mean different things.

But we cannot ignore the CONTEXT created by the captors.

How isolated is the setting? Are there lots of captors around? Just one? Might anyone wander past?

 

Is this a training dungeon in Whiterun? A prison under Fort Greenwall? A draugr crypt? A rough bandit camp in the wilderness?

 

Furniture isn't a device that works by itself, it really only works when there is somebody to put you in it and take you out.

They are the thing you're really interacting with, not the furniture.

A furniture framework needs to appreciate that and help modders support those interactions.

 

This is something Whiterun Brothel Revamp understood very well.

A furniture mod that only handles furniture is only doing a tiny part of the job.

It needs to handle the captors in a way that helps the modder deliver both a roleplay experience and gameplay.

 

Enduring a rack device might be wiser than trying escape, if you don't want to end up broken.

Acceptance might avoid physical downsides, in favour of psychological/mental impact.

Escape might have a wriggle game, like the DCL one. Or you could use pure strength. Or pick locks (and it might work for some devices, it does in reality). These are choices the player could select from, just like Cut/Pick Lock/Struggle in DD.

 

But more important than trying to escape by yourself is how your captors view things.

Whether you Beg, Scream or are silently defeated by the torture matters to THEM, and will determine whether they leave you in, take you out, take you out and have sex, or increase the torture, do something special and advance the plot, or send the player to a bad end.

 

A rack is the perfect example device to consider for choices.

A slow, time-consuming torture like a cramped cage is different, but it too is all about captors, not the actual furniture.

Even being simply chained to a wall and left alone offers choices: try to escape, conserve your energy, or make noise to try and get attention.

Will that attention be good or bad?

 

For any of this to work, there needs to be a broader context: physical and mental consequences of furniture that have some game value.

 

By putting these ideas in the mod, and supporting them with mod events, modders can easily make their NPCs respond.

 

 

If the above capabilities were provided to modders it would be much more useful than lots and lots of beautiful new assets.

There are already enough assets in Zaz for just about anything. Adding more just makes it bigger, not more useful.

 

DDC has a chance to fix that problem.

 

 

Instead of having no function but to look pretty, furniture would come with game-play hooks built-in, without the individual modder having to craft every little part of it.

 

It would also be great not to have to base your code on a huge, overly-complex mod that has documentation that is years out of date, was full of wishes and fishes even when it wasn't, and is maintained by someone who is not well-placed to create documents for English speakers.

 

 

And for physical and mental consequences ... physical is easy ... stat modifiers ... perks ... etc.

Metal is harder ... it can't work without mods to make it work ... DF willpower does nothing unless you run DF.

But that doesn't stop a mod integrating with mods that do have such mechanics: SD+ and DF both have mental stats. CD ... did ... but I guess that ship has sailed, and then been scuttled to the bottom of the Atlantic.

 

Don't be a monolithic solution, be an integrated solution.

 

 

e.g. You can integrate properly with DF willpower using a simple mod event now, which will correctly damage resistance (and not willpower directly).

 

 

And from a more technical point, here's how I see it might work from the modder's perspective.

 

; returns an instance ID that can be used to identify this occupation.

Int PutInFurniture(OjbectReference furniture, Actor victim, Actor captor)

 

RelaseFromFurniture(Int occupationID)

 

ClearAllOccupations() ; removes all existing furniture tracking

 

Then, as the player interacts with the furniture, they raise mod events with parameters:

 

; where entryTime is the GameTime that the victim entered the furniture.

FurnitureScream(Int occuptionID, Actor victim, Actor captor, Float entryTime)

 

Similar functions for other actions the victim (may be the PC, or may not)...

The mod event firer sometimes looks up a stat or value for us. Or manufactures one.

 

FurnitureBeg(Int occuptionID, Actor victim, Actor captor, Float entryTime, Int victimSpeechSkill)

FurnitureStrain(Int occuptionID, Actor victim, Actor captor, Float entryTime, Int victimStrength)

FurnitureEndure(Int occuptionID, Actor victim, Actor captor, Float entryTime, Int victimStamina, Float victimWillpower)

FurnitureAccept(Int occuptionID, Actor victim, Actor captor, Float entryTime, Float victimWillpower)

FurnitureBeg(Int occuptionID, Actor victim, Actor captor, Float entryTime, Int victimSpeechSkill)

FurnitureHelp(Int occuptionID, Actor victim, Actor captor, Float entryTime, Int victimSpeechSkill)

FurnitureWriggle(Int occuptionID, Actor victim, Actor captor, Float entryTime, Int victimEscapeSkill, String wrigglePart) ; where the part is feet, hands, etc.

FurnitureLockPick(Int occuptionID, Actor victim, Actor captor, Float entryTime, Int victimLockPickSkill)

 

 

 

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For those who looked at the post above and went "Blah! TLDNR!"

 

To be useful to modders, a furniture mod needs some built-in gameplay, like DD device escapes and struggles, but captor oriented.

It also needs hooks to link captors into gameplay.

Most of the actions a victim can take in furniture are not about direct escape, but about captor interaction.

 

We don't even need animations for this, it's not about device sex - though that would be nice.

Spoiler

When Naked Dungeons added furniture and escapes, I thought it would be great.

I realised it wasn't, because it was just a dull, mechanical experience, with no story or NPC interactions.

 

Even DCL rapes have more story element than that. You can't take revenge on a device, and you can't beg it for mercy.

But with captors who are more than simple rape-machines, you can beg, plead, scream pitifully, give-in to their demands, or silently defy them.

 

A mod that let you take these actions and implemented a range of basic responses would definitely be exciting.

What if there were several? All built on the same framework?

I would like to see that.

 

Captors are the missing piece from DCC and Zaz. Neither mod helps manage them, but captor interactions are the interesting part about furniture.

 

We will NEVER have all the animations we want for furniture, but captors don't need furniture animations to make furniture great. Captors already have a ton of animations that aren't device specific. They can laugh, clap, put on a sexy show, sit down and eat their lunch, go to sleep, or take you out of the device and have sex with you with 2000 different animations.

 

The furniture itself is invariably limited in what it can do. You are stuck in it, maybe you play an animation, but the reason you're in it is because of the captors.

And the way you'll get out is probably with the help of captors, or rescuers.

 

It's how the captors use the furniture that makes the story, and the gameplay, and the bondage experience. The furniture is just a device to spice that up: a maguffin.

Linking captors into the framework, and offering a guide on how to use them makes it much easier for people to see how to make gameplay from a furniture device.

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1 hour ago, t.ara said:

I´m really not understanding why so many people around here let KIMY stuck with this unfinished mod all alone.

Specially, if so many assets were prepared (by SUPERTIN) with lot of hours of work in it !!!

If the basic functionality of getting characters in and out of furniture is settled, and there is a clean way for modders to get those furnitures into their mod, then I might write something on top of it to help manage that with respect to escape mechanics, NPCs, scenes and AI.

 

Time spent getting some alignment in development is not time wasted.

It's worth talking about things. Kimy will always go down her own path, but at least we can be told what that path is.

It's unclear what Kimy plans to do from here, if anything, and T.ara input was a surprise, though very welcome.

 

But there's no point making things unless they have a compelling use case.

If you aren't in the business of making quests with furniture in (and I class Dragonar as a quest, in a way that PoP imprisonment definitely isn't) then there's not much incentive to develop a "build it and they will come" mod.

Whatever furniture mod gets made, it should be specifically to support a mod that uses it.

 

The link between DD and DCL has not been harmful, but beneficial.

As a primary consumer of DD, Kimy has incentive to keep DD focused and useful.

 

The common-sense thing is for Kimy to build the furniture mod she needs for DCL, whatever that is.

If that's DCC, great.

I don't see Kimy adding Zaz - in its current form - as a requirement for DCL. It would annoy too many people.

 

But if we had a Dollmaker, or a Dragonar with interesting quest events and experiences based around furniture, players would be cheering.

There would be a lot of excitement.

 

I think my points about interactivity and captors are highly relevant to both DCC, DCL and the ultimate direction of Zaz.

Even if you want to say, "don't come up with ideas unless you want to implement them," that's helping even less than ideas you don't like or care about.

DF would never have existed in the form it does without this kind of debate and without the creative smarts of Lozeak to turn raw ideas into functional fun gameplay. It needs both.

 

It's fine to be in love with curating a huge collection of beautiful assets, but what is it for?

Is it to inspire the idea of a mod? Or to actually enable one?

And what if the ever-inflating size of a mod makes it less and less appealing for players to install?

 

These are things to think about, not attacks, or trolling, or "tickles".

I'm happy using Zaz 8 myself, but I would never make a mod that required it; that would be a deal-breaker for some players.

 

If somebody comes to me with a proposal for how furniture fits into DF, or SLD, I'm definitely going to be interested, but it needs to be practical.

It would always be a soft-dependency, which puts some pretty big limits on what might be done.

 

I certainly have plans to make furniture relevant to SLAX, but that's as far as I go right now.

I have enough pans on the boil right now without sticking myself in the middle of, and becoming a bottleneck to, DCC development.

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20 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

For those who looked at the post above and went "Blah! TLDNR!"

 

To be useful to modders, a furniture mod needs some built-in gameplay, like DD device escapes and struggles, but captor oriented.

It also needs hooks to link captors into gameplay.

Most of the actions a victim can take in furniture are not about direct escape, but about captor interaction.

 

We don't even need animations for this, it's not about device sex - though that would be nice.

  Reveal hidden contents

When Naked Dungeons added furniture and escapes, I thought it would be great.

I realised it wasn't, because it was just a dull, mechanical experience, with no story or NPC interactions.

 

Even DCL rapes have more story element than that. You can't take revenge on a device, and you can't beg it for mercy.

But with captors who are more than simple rape-machines, you can beg, plead, scream pitifully, give-in to their demands, or silently defy them.

 

A mod that let you take these actions and implemented a range of basic responses would definitely be exciting.

What if there were several? All built on the same framework?

I would like to see that.

 

Captors are the missing piece from DCC and Zaz. Neither mod helps manage them, but captor interactions are the interesting part about furniture.

 

We will NEVER have all the animations we want for furniture, but captors don't need furniture animations to make furniture great. Captors already have a ton of animations that aren't device specific. They can laugh, clap, put on a sexy show, sit down and eat their lunch, go to sleep, or take you out of the device and have sex with you with 2000 different animations.

 

The furniture itself is invariably limited in what it can do. You are stuck in it, maybe you play an animation, but the reason you're in it is because of the captors.

And the way you'll get out is probably with the help of captors, or rescuers.

 

It's how the captors use the furniture that makes the story, and the gameplay, and the bondage experience. The furniture is just a device to spice that up: a maguffin.

Linking captors into the framework, and offering a guide on how to use them makes it much easier for people to see how to make gameplay from a furniture device.

@Lupine00

 

I've thought about this too.  Good 'gameplay' is THE most important issue, especially making sure that it involves the player as much as possible to avoid what would otherwise only be a cinematic experience (** see below for an exception to that rule)

 

So, leaving aside the furniture mechanic - entry, camera, DD mechanisms etc, which the efforts of @Kimyand @t.ara  and others will probably see fixed soon enough - the basic questions in that regard, one which I have neither the technical understanding or knowledge to know the proper answer, is

 

Assuming that the player (as well as followers which, as Kimy, and some other modders, manage to incapacitate in their existing DCL/ other mod scenes) is locked into furniture as part of any mods gameplay

 

A) can the player then

 

A1) - take over the IA/actions etc of the captor NPC in order to make it part of any 'PC-in-furniture' related quest, that the player has to organise, take control of, and directly participate in, the captor NPC's acting out on the player's PC whatever actions are necessary to run through/complete for any of the types of activity you listed above, as well as whatever equivalents others might dream up, and thus

 

A2) - the player can play out for themselves the completion of what will effectively be 'miniquests' that determine the PC's present and future activity, release etc, with any attendant modded risks of the player's own success or failure in such tasks - egs

 

-   in situ, prolonged captivity with additional tasks/punishments, 

-   more consequences on release eg more DD restraints, general and/or punishing,

-   loss of non quest assets and cash,

-   transfer to other mods egs SS, or better, directly to a random selection from SD+, SLUTS, Chaindogs etc, with the ensuing game hiatus that that could create (this could be made even more fun if other mods' quest items could be placed in a box to be recovered either in the wild, if the PC were, like one of Kimy's punishment penchants, banished to the wild) or of locked in a container beside the furniture item until the PC has completed some other release quest,

-   retention of the PC's current followers, ie locked up in-furniture, until some new quest item is collected, following which the followers can be 'rescued' on return to where they are locked up

 

B) If this can be done, ie the player can 'take over' the action(s) of participating NPC(s), can the player take over the actions of the captor NPC with a 1st person POV, or only a 3rd person POV?  Needless to say 1st person would be really cool LOL

 

This could/would make for an intertesting in-game 'switch' scenario too

 

But, as I said, the question is, 'Is it technically feasible? 

 

@Lupine00 If it is, given your other mods, is this something that you'd have the skills to do? or the will to live long enough to do it?

 

I trust @Kimy is OK with me sticking my oar in here at this point, but as the subject has been brought up, that's my initial tuppenceworth on the principles

 

** I'm not saying that there is no room for 'cinematic experience'.   Inte's Prison Overhaul, where the player does have limited involvement, does that very well.  And it makes for a real punishment too, as the player actually temporarily loses control of not only their NPC, but also their game direction, for a limited period, something that can serve you right for making in gameplay 'mistakes/misjudgements', for which you have to suffer 'real' consequences

 

 

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1 hour ago, DeWired said:

I think I need to quote Mordecai on this one: "What happened? What the hell just happened?!"

I agree with the alcoholic sniper.

 

I don't see anything wrong here and if there was something going on behind the scenes, I hope that it was just miscommunication.

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28 minutes ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

I agree with the alcoholic sniper.

 

I don't see anything wrong here and if there was something going on behind the scenes, I hope that it was just miscommunication.

Eh... Yes.

 

Can anyone explain to me what that was all about?

 

And the handwriting thing?

 

I guess we can all just pinch ourselves until we wake up and realise the whole thing was just a crazy dream.

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