Devious Followers - Continued

[Lupine00]

On 7/14/2021 at 9:41 PM, anyway ayway said:

Gold control often sets the daily AgreedGold value far too high after resting, up to three times the value set in the MCM. This is because in _DFGoldConQScript.psc, line 317, the random function that rolls three times is using goldRange instead of rollMax, which was clearly the intended variable. I switched the variables, recompiled and tested, and using rollMax instead works correctly.

I suspect that bug has been around since gold control was invented.

 

I wouldn't want forced start to begin if you have a follower, as it wouldn't quite make sense with respect to what happens.

As people have suggested, a different kind of forced start would be possible, but makes no sense if your follower is set to ignore.

[throwaway219]

My character has the wolf deal (beg for sex daily).  Lately, every time I ask I am told that I failed the previous day.  The first time I was made to accept six deals, but afterwards I'm still always told "What use are you if you can't even beg for sex every day", even if I have definitely done so multiple times each day.  I looked into the dialog topic and I think the conditions on 299512 ("Yes, that's what you're for") and 2CC000 ("What use are you") might be reversed?  The former has SexDealDefaults > 0 and the latter has == 0, and it seems like they should be reversed?

[Anunya]

DFC continues to be great

 

I have a suggestion/ request for what I think is a minor change:

 

So I had an event trigger where my follower was in the mood for sex and I had a few options. I picked the "let's all pile in" option, which resulted in group sex with a bunch of followers (I'd just recruited five followers, which at +100% DFC cost per follower may go interesting places). Awesome!

 

I'm wondering if it's possible to add the group option either as a separate deal or as an option added on to the "offer sex daily" deal?

[Lupine00]

12 hours ago, Anunya said:

I'm wondering if it's possible to add the group option either as a separate deal or as an option added on to the "offer sex daily" deal?

DFC doesn't have any provision for group sex with the followers as is.

 

The sex scene code can support it, and it's used for some of the game stuff and the slave sex, but it's not wired into the deal system.

 

I think this makes great sense as an idea, and one obvious approach is to have a Tier-3 rule that is group sex, that can only be offered if you have a number of followers.

 

The current mechanics around dismissing followers beyond the main DF are a little sketchy right now though.

It would make sense to be able to swap them around, and that's not a huge thing to do from one perspective, but the follower frameworks make it harder to be convinced it's done right.

 

If I get around to another major phase of testing and fixing follower-framework problems I might do it then.

I really only had time to make sure that the primary follower was ok when I last looked at this.

[throwaway219]

On 7/29/2021 at 11:39 PM, throwaway219 said:

My character has the wolf deal (beg for sex daily).  Lately, every time I ask I am told that I failed the previous day.  The first time I was made to accept six deals, but afterwards I'm still always told "What use are you if you can't even beg for sex every day", even if I have definitely done so multiple times each day.  I looked into the dialog topic and I think the conditions on 299512 ("Yes, that's what you're for") and 2CC000 ("What use are you") might be reversed?  The former has SexDealDefaults > 0 and the latter has == 0, and it seems like they should be reversed?

 

I edited the conditions in TESEdit and have tested it and it seems like this fixes the bug.

[moody132]

I got bought by Stenvar by Simple Slavery, instantly got informed that i exceeded debt limit so i became enslaved, then when i managed to pay him rest of the money he become all friendly. Shouldnt he add standard debt and deals after that? MCM says that when you are enslaved all deals and dept all paused. Perhaps they didn't ever initialized in first place, so, lucky for me. But the problem is i can't get rid of him. I am doing Clear Debt-follower will be dissmisable. Then either  'it's time for us to part ways' or EFF Dismiss. in both cases he keeps following me. And dialogues are like he isnt recruited. How I make him to go away? resetai doesnt work, EFF fix actor neither, Devious Follower MCM Dismiss follower option also. Tried this in both almost empty interior cell, and in Windhelm market with about 20npcs around.

Even workaround method would be good, i don't care. I just wanna know that i will be able to dismiss him or any other follower, if something like this happends again.

[Selena Glazer]

Yes i have understood the idea of this great mod,
1. pay your follower on time.
2. if you don't have money to pay them, you can do deals
3. and deals have types and levels, etc ,etc.

 

but Just a question, what benefits do you get from a Devious Follower?
 

thanks in advance

[bubba999]

1 hour ago, Selena Glazer said:

Yes i have understood the idea of this great mod,
1. pay your follower on time.
2. if you don't have money to pay them, you can do deals
3. and deals have types and levels, etc ,etc.

 

but Just a question, what benefits do you get from a Devious Follower?
 

thanks in advance

 

Kinkyness!

[Selena Glazer]

3 hours ago, bubba999 said:

 

Kinkyness!

in deed ?

[indolu]

So a suggestion to make it a bit less annoying, make the miscounting thing affect how much gold they take instead of how much debt it reduces. Right now I have to do the option several times to even get it to zero.

[Herowynne]

4 hours ago, Selena Glazer said:

what benefits do you get from a Devious Follower?

 

The main purpose is that a Devious Follower can remove the hard-to-remove Devious Devices. The idea is that one of your followers, the "Devious" follower, has expertise in removing difficult bondage devices that are added by other mods such as DCL. Of course, you have to pay the Devious Follower to remove devices, or go into debt.

 

@Lupine00 recently added a very nice feature so that the Devious Follower can procure and manage your Sexlab Survival licenses. If you use Sexlab Survival, having your Devious Follower handle license procurement and management is quite handy. I particularly like this new feature.

[Anunya]

5 hours ago, Selena Glazer said:

Yes i have understood the idea of this great mod,
1. pay your follower on time.
2. if you don't have money to pay them, you can do deals
3. and deals have types and levels, etc ,etc.

 

but Just a question, what benefits do you get from a Devious Follower?
 

thanks in advance

 

Well... if you use the licensing system from SL Survival, your Devious Follower can handle those licenses for you so you don't have to worry about them being up to date. You follower can also handle your gold for you, which gives you access to gold no matter your current debt level. This effectively allows you to take on deals to get gold when you're short on cash.

 

... of course, both of those are designed to get you deeper into the Follower's clutches.

 

There aren't really any serious benefits compared to a vanilla follower. The idea is that either your character accidentally picked someone trying to take advantage of them or that - alternately - no one in Skyrim is willing to be a follower without being devious about it.

 

EDIT: yeah, Herowynne is right - the Devious Follower can remove Devious Devices from you (for a price). That can be pretty useful, depending on how often you end up like that.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Anunya

[(\x.x x) (\x.x x)]

5 hours ago, Selena Glazer said:

but Just a question, what benefits do you get from a Devious Follower?

 

Unfortunately, I also found that the purpose is often lacking from mod descriptions.

The first time I tried out this mod I also hoped for "kinkyness" like @bubba999.

As a result, I but couldn't really appreciate the mod,  even though it was obvious to me that it is was of very high quality and popular.

 

I gave it another shot with Sexlab Survival and Deviously Enchanted Chests, and then it clicked. Suddenly, having a devious follower made sense in the game world.

A world where all resources are potentially trapped, starvation could kill you, and the only safe places have enforcers and guards.

Instead just get that follower, who then protects you and provides you with cheaper licenses in a convenient way and can help you out, if you get bound in a dungeon.

There is even Frostfall support, so you don't freeze to death. 

And even if you run out of money, you just do some unpleasant stuff for them, but in the end the benefits outweigh the cost.

Hell, you may even try the gambling game to get some money to invest in something.

 

In the same playthrough, I later installed Devious Lore (because it was recommended),

and its struggle system made the follower device service less needed, which changed this cost-benefit analysis for worse.

So in my opinion @Herowynne's answer exactly to the point.

 

Since a similar question came up in the Lola thread https://www.loverslab.com/topic/158588-submissive-lola-the-resubmission-lese/?do=findComment&comment=3464800,

I suggest adding some explanation like @Herowynne's to the title page, for those people who weren't around when DCL was invented and everybody was well aware what Devious Followers (not continued) was made for.

 

 

[Selena Glazer]

11 hours ago, Herowynne said:

 

The main purpose is that a Devious Follower can remove the hard-to-remove Devious Devices. The idea is that one of your followers, the "Devious" follower, has expertise in removing difficult bondage devices that are added by other mods such as DCL. Of course, you have to pay the Devious Follower to remove devices, or go into debt.

 

@Lupine00 recently added a very nice feature so that the Devious Follower can procure and manage your Sexlab Survival licenses. If you use Sexlab Survival, having your Devious Follower handle license procurement and management is quite handy. I particularly like this new feature.

Thank you for the reply, I got it so it is mainly Help with Sexlab Licenses and removal of DDs, especially is you use DCL.

[Selena Glazer]

11 hours ago, Anunya said:

 

Well... if you use the licensing system from SL Survival, your Devious Follower can handle those licenses for you so you don't have to worry about them being up to date. You follower can also handle your gold for you, which gives you access to gold no matter your current debt level. This effectively allows you to take on deals to get gold when you're short on cash.

 

... of course, both of those are designed to get you deeper into the Follower's clutches.

 

There aren't really any serious benefits compared to a vanilla follower. The idea is that either your character accidentally picked someone trying to take advantage of them or that - alternately - no one in Skyrim is willing to be a follower without being devious about it.

 

EDIT: yeah, Herowynne is right - the Devious Follower can remove Devious Devices from you (for a price). That can be pretty useful, depending on how often you end up like that.

Got it thank you

[Selena Glazer]

10 hours ago, (\x.x x) (\x.x x) said:

 

Unfortunately, I also found that the purpose is often lacking from mod descriptions.

The first time I tried out this mod I also hoped for "kinkyness" like @bubba999.

As a result, I but couldn't really appreciate the mod,  even though it was obvious to me that it is was of very high quality and popular.

 

I gave it another shot with Sexlab Survival and Deviously Enchanted Chests, and then it clicked. Suddenly, having a devious follower made sense in the game world.

A world where all resources are potentially trapped, starvation could kill you, and the only safe places have enforcers and guards.

Instead just get that follower, who then protects you and provides you with cheaper licenses in a convenient way and can help you out, if you get bound in a dungeon.

There is even Frostfall support, so you don't freeze to death. 

And even if you run out of money, you just do some unpleasant stuff for them, but in the end the benefits outweigh the cost.

Hell, you may even try the gambling game to get some money to invest in something.

 

In the same playthrough, I later installed Devious Lore (because it was recommended),

and its struggle system made the follower device service less needed, which changed this cost-benefit analysis for worse.

So in my opinion @Herowynne's answer exactly to the point.

 

Since a similar question came up in the Lola thread https://www.loverslab.com/topic/158588-submissive-lola-the-resubmission-lese/?do=findComment&comment=3464800,

I suggest adding some explanation like @Herowynne's to the title page, for those people who weren't around when DCL was invented and everybody was well aware what Devious Followers (not continued) was made for.

 

 

Thank you for the clarification, Much appreciated

[Lupine00]

On 8/7/2021 at 5:25 AM, (\x.x x) (\x.x x) said:

Unfortunately, I also found that the purpose is often lacking from mod descriptions.

The core purpose has always been to provide a way to make followers move hazardous.

As stated, the follower is deviously trying to enslave you, but they play by some rules, because rules are more fun.

 

When you say "what is the benefit?" The benefit is that followers are made less convenient. Vanilla followers are extremely convenient, and if you add in a framework to manage lots of them, you can let your private army do most of the work. Just as SL Survival tries to make the world harsher, DFC tries to make followers harsher, and to sink cash; DFC is very much a cash sink.

 

In a devious world, the ability of the follower to remove devices is extremely useful. It's worth taking that debt just to avoid the tedium of shuffling back to the nearest town to try and get unlocked, especially when you will probably be eaten by a skeever while shuffling along in your hobble-dress and armbinder.

 

However, I take the point that the mod description doesn't discuss the "why" of the mod so much as the "what".

In the spirit of continuous improvement, I'll try and clarify that better when I post a new version.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Lupine00

[Lupine00]

On 8/7/2021 at 4:31 AM, indolu said:

So a suggestion to make it a bit less annoying, make the miscounting thing affect how much gold they take instead of how much debt it reduces. Right now I have to do the option several times to even get it to zero.

That wouldn't be quite right, as you are choosing how much you give them. Except in one case...

However, I appreciate there's a problem when the amount to pay off gets small.

 

My thought is that the best way to handle this is a hybrid solution:

• no miscounts when you are paying less than 200 and debt is less than 200.
• if you choose to clear debt, then the follower might take the wrong amount, because you aren't specifying how much you give them.

[Anunya]

Recently started a new game and got my character into a lot of DFC trouble very quickly.

 

It appears that when a DF decides to impose a bunch of deals due to low willpower/ excess debt DFC does not respect the Modular vs Classic deals setting in the MCM. I have it at 0% (so I should be getting purely modular deals, which has been working in other games). However in this new game, I got two classic deals (and one modular deal) imposed on my character (I think it was two separate triggers in quick succession, one where I got two classic deals and one where I got one modular deal).

 

It's not the end of the world or anything, but perhaps something to check next time you're in the relevant area of the code. This is in SE, by the way.

[Herowynne]

Just now, Anunya said:

It appears that when a DF decides to impose a bunch of deals due to low willpower/ excess debt DFC does not respect the Modular vs Classic deals setting in the MCM.

 

Yes, I have noticed that also.

[Anunya]

10 hours ago, Herowynne said:

 

Yes, I have noticed that also.

 

Another detail I just noticed... later I asked for a deal. I got "I want you to wear a piercing in a private place" but I never got the piercing in my inventory, nor did it show up in the MCM.

 

However, I did have the first level of the piercing deal (nipples). So what I think happened is that when I ask for a deal normally, with 0% for classic deals, but if I have a classic deal established - I may get another level of the classic deal but it won't complete because of the 0% setting.

[Selena Glazer]

Hello, I have Three questions:

 

1. About SL survival licenses, How much does it cost for the Devious Follower to renew your short term contract ? like for example a 3000 septims short term contract. Cause i saw the MCM and i found that the DF can renew like for 100 to 150 septims???? reallyy? that's cheap and really Beneficial if it is true; but i just wanna know.

2. About SL survival licenses, when you set the DF to manage them, The DF will manage the licenses you already had and will not manage newely puchased ones, is that true? like cause i can't even add the new ones or don't know how to add them.

3. and finally about The DF being bound to devices, what are the drawbacks and effects the PC and the DF gets? I also get this message ' your follower does not like being bound or tied up' .

[Anunya]

Another question about SL Licenses:

 

Does the "your licenses are your problem" response go away at some point?

 

I asked the Devious Follower to stop managing licenses to debug something,and now they aren't willing to do it again. Can I expect that they'll change their mind at some point, and if so what's the trigger?

 

And if they're never going to change their mind, is there a debug way to make them willing to do it again? Seems fair to use it, since I only disabled the function to debug something else.

 

EDIT: I've even paid off the Devious Follower and later gained another Devious Follower - and they're still saying "stop whining, your licenses aren't my problem anymore", which seems unreasonable since my character never told them not to

 

EDIT 2: Realized the fastest way to get licenses is to accept gold control, with "forced start" for licenses - which triggers it automatically

Edited August 13, 2021 by Anunya

[Anunya]

On 7/4/2021 at 8:26 AM, Herowynne said:

 

If you are in Gold Control, you can check the MCM box for Forced License management.

 

If you are not in Gold Control, you need to have willpower >= 5 in order to get the dialogue to ask your follower to manage licenses.

 

The workaround when you are not in Gold Control, and you have low willpower, is to use the console to temporarily raise your willpower, ask your follower to manage licenses, and then use the console to lower your willpower back to what it was.

 

set _DWill to 6

 

I tried using set_DWill to [x] and am getting "does not recognize command". This is something you enter into the console after hitting ~, right? I tried a few variations with spaces or lack of spaces and so on, but no luck. Any idea what I might be missing?

[Anunya]

On 8/10/2021 at 9:10 AM, Selena Glazer said:

Hello, I have Three questions:

 

1. About SL survival licenses, How much does it cost for the Devious Follower to renew your short term contract ? like for example a 3000 septims short term contract. Cause i saw the MCM and i found that the DF can renew like for 100 to 150 septims???? reallyy? that's cheap and really Beneficial if it is true; but i just wanna know.

2. About SL survival licenses, when you set the DF to manage them, The DF will manage the licenses you already had and will not manage newely puchased ones, is that true? like cause i can't even add the new ones or don't know how to add them.

3. and finally about The DF being bound to devices, what are the drawbacks and effects the PC and the DF gets? I also get this message ' your follower does not like being bound or tied up' .

 

Well, the price and duration of the licenses are adjustable in the SL Survival MCM, and the amount your Devious Follower charges is adjustable in the DFC MCM. Don't forget, the Devious Follower also adds a percentage (which you can adjust) of their daily rate (which you can also adjust).

 

So really, it's up to you to put in whatever values make sense for the type of game you want to play