Devious Device Helpers

[TurboNerd]

1 hour ago, Matz said:

First of all, thank's for this mod it's awesome !

I have a problem, I just upgraded to 0.4.0 and I can't reset the mod, in the MCM menu I have only one line and when I click on it, nothing. 

What should I do? Thank's

The earliest versions had a one-page MCM menu.  In a later version I expanded it to three and MCM just doesn't handle that very gracefully.  Do the following:

1) Remove DD_Helpers.exp from your load order.  Remove all files from Data\Scripts and Data\Scripts\Sources which start with DDH.  If you are using a mod manager, uninstall Devious Devices Helpers and it may do this for you.

2) Load your game.  Ignore the missing content warning.

3) Make a new save.  You may want to use a save cleaner on this save.

4) Exit and install the latest Devious Devices Helpers.

5) Load the save made in step 3.  It may take a minute or two for the new MCM to show up.

[zenetx]

5 hours ago, TurboNerd said:

I just tested both of these scenarios and found no problems.

Did your character have a Chastity Key?  The slave harness requires a Chastity key and if you don't have one the follower can't remove it.

Are you running the latest version?  Equipping plugs through a belt or harness is something I fixed in 0.4.0.

You're right, I was missing the chastity key. To reproduce the plug problem: I had in my inventory; a plug, ballgag, harness and restraint key.  When play time is over, the follower will unequip only the ballgag (makes sense now, since no chastity key) but will also remove the plug.

 

To be honest, don't worry about that, what bothers me the most is the "play time" doesn't make sense if the player hands aren't restraint in some way. Why would I ask my follower to remove anything if I have the key and can easily do it myself? All the keys should be confiscated, just like it normally happens at the beginning of any consensual bondage play. Or at least the follower should provide a hand restraint if the player don't have any.

 

Anyway, these are just my personal thoughts, feel free to ignore it.

 

[SleepyJim]

50 minutes ago, zenetx said:

You're right, I was missing the chastity key. To reproduce the plug problem: I had in my inventory; a plug, ballgag, harness and restraint key.  When play time is over, the follower will unequip only the ballgag (makes sense now, since no chastity key) but will also remove the plug.

I've forgotten which harnesses have which functions, but isn't it the case that not all of them act as chastity belts? Perhaps the slave harnesses don't prevent access to the business areas the way a full chastity harness does - even though the mesh looks the same - and that's why plugs weren't blocked from coming out.

[zenetx]

1 hour ago, SleepyJim said:

I've forgotten which harnesses have which functions, but isn't it the case that not all of them act as chastity belts? Perhaps the slave harnesses don't prevent access to the business areas the way a full chastity harness does - even though the mesh looks the same - and that's why plugs weren't blocked from coming out.

That seems correct. A "black leather harness" despite requiring a chastity key to unequip, doens't act as a chastity device allowing the player to insert/remove plugs. Go figure...

[S4WDU5T]

19 minutes ago, m2pt5 said:

Sounds like you upgraded from an old version, when the MCM only had one page. You have to do a clean reinstall to fix that - uninstall it, open the game and create a new save, then close the game and reinstall it.

While this is the basic gist of the process, in the interest of long-term stability and avoiding any mis-steps or pitfalls that could crop up and ruin your day, I would add a few steps/notes to better ensure a clean update (and would stress patience, rushing thru or skipping steps *will* end badly) :

 

1. First preferably park your character in an uncrowded indoor location, like a cleared bear cave or other small room with no other NPCs, any location not related to/from the mod you're preparing to uninstall, obviously. Just makes the startup/shutdown game process a bit quicker/less hassle as you hop in and out of the game thru these steps, you don't need to load the whole world every time.

2. Exit Skyrim. Note where in your load order the mod is currently placed so you can return it there at the end of the reinstall, then go ahead and uninstall the old version.

 

    *Edit 2a. To be entirely safety-minded, at this point you may want to put something else in the load order slot where your uninstalled mod was for the duration of this process, a dummy/empty .esp or some other inconsequential armor mod from towards the end of the list that doesn't care where it sits, to avoid any unforseen issues with subsequent mods below the one you're updating suddenly finding their position changed and throwing a fit over it upon loading. Mostly depends on where in the load order the mod you're dealing with started out, 9 times out of 10 this process will work fine without the dummy insert and you come out the other side unscathed, but that 10th time will bite your behind. When building a house of cards, you don't want to inadvertently turn on a window fan

 

3. Restart Skyrim, click thru the "missing mod" warning. Wait a minute or three for the loading to settle down/finish (no more status msgs in the upper-left from loading mods).

4. Open the MCM then close it, you don't have to interact with any entries. This just tells the MCM to re-initialize, you may notice the entry for the mod you uninstalled is still in the list, by telling MCM to reset with the open/close it will remove that entry after a few mins. Wait for this to happen, ensure that your uninstalled mods' MCM entry has disappeared. Now make a New Save and exit Skyrim.

5. Use a savegame script-cleaner on the New Save you just made to remove/clean any straggling bits like unattached/orphaned scripts left in place from the uninstall. If you have a relatively short/small load order, use Save Game Script Cleaner . However if you have a huge load order full of large mods pushing the limit, likely your games' String Count is over 65535 and that Cleaner will crash trying to load that save. In this case, instead use Fallrim Tools ReSaver , it works around that limitation. Become familiar with using the one you chose, as either one can bork your save if you mess around too much. Both will show you and allow you to safely clean any "Unattached Instances" and "Undefined Elements" still present, scrubbing those should be all you need to have a squeaky-clean save. Now save your newly-cleaned & sparkly savegame and exit the Cleaner app.

6. Restart Skyrim and load that newest cleaned save, wait the few mins for loading to finish, then New Save again (this step may be overkill but better safe than sorry, this way the game itself makes a fresh new sterilized savegame that is totally unaware of the mod you uninstalled, absolute clean slate).

7. Now you should be in fine shape to exit Skyrim and proceed with installing the newer version of the mod, drag its .esp back to where it was in your load order before you started this rollercoaster ride, and run with it in your final Save Of Cleanness, all systems go! 

 

Disclaimer: I am by no means an expert or authority of any kind, these steps are what I've learned work best for me every time (so far, knock on wood  ) that I've settled on after much trial & error and hair-pulling, and should work with the majority of mods out there. That said, *always* check that mods' webpage first for any special uninstall steps you may need to take into account and pencil in. Many mod authors include some manner of toggle or Debug in their MCM to facilitate safer/cleaner uninstalls, shutting down active scripts and/or disabling/reverting any changes it made before you remove/update them. Also check that some updates/new versions of a mod may *require* that you start a new game with them, as radical internal changes in how a mod functions cannot be easily shoehorned into a current playthru already having the "older" code baked into the save. When in doubt, always defer to the person who created the mod in the first place, they know their own code best. 

 

Also edit: If anyone sees a glaring omission or error or has a better method, please speak up! Help us all to help ourselves and we can all keep playing! 

[TurboNerd]

5 hours ago, zenetx said:

To be honest, don't worry about that, what bothers me the most is the "play time" doesn't make sense if the player hands aren't restraint in some way. Why would I ask my follower to remove anything if I have the key and can easily do it myself? All the keys should be confiscated, just like it normally happens at the beginning of any consensual bondage play. Or at least the follower should provide a hand restraint if the player don't have any.

I have had thoughts along those lines.  I could move any keys the player has into the follower's standard inventory.  Of course since the follower can understand even when the character is gagged, the player could ask for them back.  Or the player could pull some out of a strong box, chest or whatever.  Unless you use the "Bondage Lover" option you can end play time early just by asking to have something removed.

 

The original plan was for bondage to be fully consensual at all times.  The "Bondage Lover" option was added at the suggestion of one user because it didn't seem too hard at the time.  Of course it's creating additional issues now.

 

What I need is to find out how to have a reliable but invisible container to move the keys into.  Counting keys will not do because mods can add non-standard devious keys which we don't want to vanish.

 

In the mean time have your character carry her wrist restraint of choice, they're not that heavy.

[TurboNerd]

Beta version 0.4.1 is out.  It fixes a single issue:

 

The mod did not check for the end of play time while the character was not in an eligible area because play time only starts in eligible areas.  However, it is possible for play time to start and then the character can leave the eligible area while play time is in progress.  For example, one of my test characters, Alice, was tied up at home by her helper and then traveled to the Shrine of Azura while tied up.  When she asked to be freed, the follower said it was too soon because the mod was no longer checking.  End of play time will now be checked whenever the play time is in progress regardless of player location.

 

A question for the players:  As it stands the only time the follower will "conjure" toys is when the player has none in her inventory which can be equipped.  How many think that the follower should "helpfully" conjure a wrist restraint if the player wasn't carrying one?

[valcon767]

my 2 cents worth

 

a toggle (if you know how to put one in and are willing to) would give the individual player the choice.

 

that said though if it is a either yes conjure the restraints or never conjure the wrist restraints i would have to vote for yes conjure them.

 

[zenetx]

2 hours ago, TurboNerd said:

What I need is to find out how to have a reliable but invisible container to move the keys into.

 

 

You can just copy the Devious Integration code which moves all the lockpicks to "the safe" after wearing an armbinder (zadArmbinderNoLockpicks.psc script), or the code which move all the consumables to "the fridge" after wearing a gag (zadGagNoFoodEffect.psc script)

 

[lvk]

Quote

How many think that the follower should "helpfully" conjure a wrist restraint if the player wasn't carrying one?

Yeah, sure!

Also, is it possible to make a choice of restraints for each play session a little bit more random? Like sometimes you will be gagged and sometimes not; sometimes blindfolded and sometimes not?

[worik]

3 hours ago, TurboNerd said:

How many think that the follower should "helpfully" conjure a wrist restraint if the player wasn't carrying one?

Not meant to be rude or to sound unthankful: But my idea in using the helpers mod is get stuff away from me.. I have already enough opportunities(mods) to add stuff...

Isn't it wasted to reinvent those mods again? Trying to go DCL-light is a nice challenge, but isn't it beyond the intention of DD-Helpers?

 

Anyway. To answer your question:No, I am not a friend of those out-of-nowhere things. Find it, craft it, pick it up, receive it from someone. I think it should be limited to that.

3 hours ago, TurboNerd said:

What I need is to find out how to have a reliable but invisible container to move the keys into.  Counting keys will not do because mods can add non-standard devious keys which we don't want to vanish.

Idea: add a chest in zbftest cell or any other readily available storage cell and store all stuff in there. It's out of the way and if something is broken the player can always coc and fetch stuff back

[SleepyJim]

5 hours ago, TurboNerd said:

A question for the players:  As it stands the only time the follower will "conjure" toys is when the player has none in her inventory which can be equipped.  How many think that the follower should "helpfully" conjure a wrist restraint if the player wasn't carrying one?

I like the idea, but would prefer it - if it's added - to be an option that could be disabled in the MCM, as I wouldn't necessarily always want to use it. One other thing I would request is the ability to choose the type of restraint to use. As much as I love the various colours and finishes available in DDx, I usually prefer to stick with simple iron/steel/black leather.

[tuxagent7]

Yep for the conjuring restraint

[Lowezar]

If I may add a suggestion - when the follower removes an item when asked to help, maybe they could keep it and re-equip that when returning to safe location? Kind of like "oh, fine, I'll remove it for now, but I want to see you struggle against it later"? Obviously shouldn't work on yokes that can't be removed without help at all.

I think it could be safely tied into "bondage lover" option without making it separate config. Maybe with just additional time limit much higher than the usual play time - just as a safeguard for some things like straightjackets that can take ages to take off even with a key and then the lock gets jammed and struggle/cut options are also exhausted (on higher DD difficulties they can get blocked off with some bad luck).

[TurboNerd]

6 hours ago, lvk said:

Yeah, sure!

Also, is it possible to make a choice of restraints for each play session a little bit more random? Like sometimes you will be gagged and sometimes not; sometimes blindfolded and sometimes not?

 

3 hours ago, SleepyJim said:

One other thing I would request is the ability to choose the type of restraint to use. As much as I love the various colours and finishes available in DDx, I usually prefer to stick with simple iron/steel/black leather.

Just make sure that what you want to be locked up in is in your inventory and stuff you don't want isn't.  The "Give me two minutes" is so that you can shuffle stuff if you want

 

50 minutes ago, Lowezar said:

If I may add a suggestion - when the follower removes an item when asked to help, maybe they could keep it and re-equip that when returning to safe location? Kind of like "oh, fine, I'll remove it for now, but I want to see you struggle against it later"? Obviously shouldn't work on yokes that can't be removed without help at all.

When the follower (or blacksmith) removes an item with a key, the item remains in the player character's inventory and is available to be reequipped when play-time starts.  At the start of play time the follower will equip everything which can be.  So, if your character is carrying a yoke, for example, it will be reequipped (unless your character also has an armbinder in which case she may wind up wearing that instead).

[TurboNerd]

9 hours ago, TurboNerd said:

How many think that the follower should "helpfully" conjure a wrist restraint if the player wasn't carrying one?

My plan is to add a MCM option.  Restraint will be "random".

7 hours ago, zenetx said:

You can just copy the Devious Integration code which moves all the lockpicks to "the safe" after wearing an armbinder (zadArmbinderNoLockpicks.psc script), or the code which move all the consumables to "the fridge" after wearing a gag (zadGagNoFoodEffect.psc script)

Thanks for the suggestion.  I will look and see how that works.

[Lowezar]

55 minutes ago, TurboNerd said:

When the follower (or blacksmith) removes an item with a key, the item remains in the player character's inventory and is available to be reequipped when play-time starts.  At the start of play time the follower will equip everything which can be.  So, if your character is carrying a yoke, for example, it will be reequipped (unless your character also has an armbinder in which case she may wind up wearing that instead).

Yes, I understand that, I read how it works. I mean if it could be turned into some kind of "delayed equip" system rather than straight "escape". Kind of like instead of just letting a player out of it and forget that thing they could be letting the player out of it temporarily, and still make the player escape that thing on their own when back to a safe place. Tying that into play time... Probably could work but you capped it at 5 hours which at higher DD difficulty might be enough for just 2 escape attempts... Not to mention I'm not sure how it would react if the item it expects to need removal at the end is no longer equipped or might even be missing (sold?).

 

But anyway, my idea was to make it separate from play time system. Not equip it temporarily but leave the player on their own with that thing. Although, not sure if that's technically viable to track that specific item to disable "can you help me" for that and not for another same item if the player gets stuck in it again.

 

Either way, thanks for the mod, it helps reduce having to cheat around enemies as it is so already a good improvement.

[xwhiteninjax]

since I am not a friend of permanently enslaved, gagged, captured or anything coming within minutes of gameplay (such hindering a longtime quest "like rigmor of bruma") I would gladly appriciate some dialogues back (don't know why they are missing now)... like dialogues teasing the player, invoking some treatment, but also an option to finish the session... not the annoying... I am busy now, can't understand you, nobody is listening... it might be fun to play around for a while, but the player has to have (imho) an option to stop it (ingamestyle - not only with the mcm-option). This might be controverse with playing mods like the devious ones... but for me skyrim is the main-goal, other mods should add to this, not substitute skyrim in a complete way (as for example "maria eden" had done)

 

btw: nice mod - would only be much better without the devious denpendencies... *ducking and running away... (but mods like "interactive torture" should be enough to play... only ZaZanimationpack... FNIS, SKSE)

[TurboNerd]

@xwhiteninjax I'm not completely sure what your first paragraph is about, but as long as you don't have "Bondage Lover" enabled at the bottom of the MCM there are dialogs to end the session.  Turning that option on will disable a lot of dialogues from my mod.  But maybe you are thinking about dialogs from DDi 3.3b such as "I won't spoil your little adventure...".  Those were taken out of DDi 4.0 and my mod is trying to fill some of that void, but I had no intention of replicating the whole thing.

 

As far as the devious dependencies, well this mod was all about making devious devices less of a game stopper.  Making an "interactive torture" involving ZaZ is really a whole new mod because Devious Devices and ZaZ are really nothing like each other in how they are used at the script level.

[xwhiteninjax]

1 hour ago, TurboNerd said:

@xwhiteninjax I'm not completely sure what your first paragraph is about, but as long as you don't have "Bondage Lover" enabled at the bottom of the MCM there are dialogs to end the session.  Turning that option on will disable a lot of dialogues from my mod.  But maybe you are thinking about dialogs from DDi 3.3b such as "I won't spoil your little adventure...".  Those were taken out of DDi 4.0 and my mod is trying to fill some of that void, but I had no intention of replicating the whole thing.

 

As far as the devious dependencies, well this mod was all about making devious devices less of a game stopper.  Making an "interactive torture" involving ZaZ is really a whole new mod because Devious Devices and ZaZ are really nothing like each other in how they are used at the script level.

you have guessed right (sorry, not native speaking)... I am missing some dialogs and I knew, that there were changes between a DD-mod (but did not know which one especially - thanks for the detail)... hm... if there is a mod "bondage lover" then I don't have it installed... if this is an option, I have to look, if it is enabled or not...

 

but let me describe a scenario, to clarify my first thought... the player went for him-/herself into one furniture... and now nothing happens (even at calling for help)... prior there was a starting dialoge like "you are in a special situation... " and some options to let the other npc "play" or decline the playing... such a dialoge is missing... during the scenario there was sometimes... "I am busy now... " or " I will take it over now (or similiar) and the player had for a very short time the possibility to free him-/herself (maybe with conditions)... after a given time I am missing a dialog like "ok.. .we can stop now... or do you want more fun"... the last opportunity should have a change in animations, though

 

this is in my mind, when I am saying... I am missing dialogs ... and thought, you would provide similiar ones into your mod... but no pressure... it is a very good idea to give the followers options, too... the icing of the your mod would be a little scripting-trick, though... just put in an option to reverse actor1 and actor2... so sometimes the player is at the receiving or the giving end of the animations... it is like.. .the player is triggering the event himself and then changes the role ingamestyle (maybe it was an illusionspell that (s)he went into the special caring situation

 

p.s.: looked into the mcm ... bondage lover is an option ... and unchecked

[Clockwinding]

I just upgraded from 4.0 to 4.1 and i have a problem now : the timer for playtime does not seem to reset?

I have the 1 to 2 day default delay between play sessions, with 20-70% chance.

But now I get asked multiple times a day by my follower about being tied up!

 

Guess i'll proceed to a full reinstall of the mod.

 

EDIT : did a full reinstall on cleaned save. there's sommething up, definitely. With those same settings again, got bound/freed at 21/23pm, and bound again at 6:30 am the morning after. this is very far from the 1 day minimum delay.

[m2pt5]

I'm not sure how optional support works, but I know it's possible - could you add optional support for the item sets added by Devious Devices - Equip, at least for when creating items because the player has none? (If you haven't seen it before, the whole description before 'Actually' isn't what it's about at all. Unfortunately, DDe's items don't seem to get used by DCL either, though I'm not versed in the technicalities of these mods, which is most of why I ask.)

[Burner003]

I second Clockwinding's point. The delay is usually an hour or less between sessions for me right now.

[xwhiteninjax]

MCM, debug... there is a follower shown (but never changing), for me it is "pretty courier lilly" , this mod has a followerfunction, but she is not an active follower to me... did a test and accept a follower to join me... (the only one active), but "Lilly" was marked as follower inside your mod... tried some scenes to see, if the active follower did some stuff... more or less in a random way... moved Lilly to me and repeated the stuff to see, if Lilly react... but no (better) changes in behaviour or a follower (there were scenes putting on somde devious devices - but it was a long way to tell them, to unbound them)... I understand, that your mod will nothing do with furnitures (since there is a safeword in the framework it is not needed)... so maybe there is a (player-)restricted way to play scenarios... if DD are to be used, depend on your mod... if furnitures are used, your mod will only add something during some scenes... but finishing furniture-treatment has to come from other mods

[TurboNerd]

16 hours ago, Clockwinding said:

I just upgraded from 4.0 to 4.1 and i have a problem now : the timer for playtime does not seem to reset?

I have the 1 to 2 day default delay between play sessions, with 20-70% chance.

But now I get asked multiple times a day by my follower about being tied up!

 

Guess i'll proceed to a full reinstall of the mod.

 

EDIT : did a full reinstall on cleaned save. there's sommething up, definitely. With those same settings again, got bound/freed at 21/23pm, and bound again at 6:30 am the morning after. this is very far from the 1 day minimum delay.

You have misunderstood an option that I didn't explain very well.  The minimum was meant to cause "surprises" as the minimum chance applies at all times.  The "dice are rolled" every 20 second real time.  Because you have set a minimum of 20% chance what you are seeing is expected (once you know how it works).  In my own playing with the mod, I found that even a 5% minimum was sufficient to trigger an early play time now and then.  Dial that 20% down and it will get better.

 

16 hours ago, m2pt5 said:

I'm not sure how optional support works, but I know it's possible - could you add optional support for the item sets added by Devious Devices - Equip, at least for when creating items because the player has none? (If you haven't seen it before, the whole description before 'Actually' isn't what it's about at all. Unfortunately, DDe's items don't seem to get used by DCL either, though I'm not versed in the technicalities of these mods, which is most of why I ask.)

If I recall correctly Devious Devices - Equip has not been updated to to be compatible with DDi 4.0 yet.  That will not prevent your follower from equipping any devices from DDE that your character has in her inventory.  BUT your follower will not be able to remove wrist restraints from DDe due to keyword changes.  I also remember that DDe replaced the armbinder script in order for the player to be able to adjust the effects of the armbinder and how that script behaves with DDi 4.0 is an even bigger concern.

2 hours ago, xwhiteninjax said:

MCM, debug... there is a follower shown (but never changing),

That is set when the force-greet process starts.  It was primarily put there so I could see which follower was put in the quest alias before I got the force greet working.  It's pretty much an obsolete option now so I should pull it out before it confuses more users.