Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[Kalthen]

5 minutes ago, CGi said:

Thanks but i actually took longer than i thought.

No release without german translation. ☺️

DF managed to breach 1100 translateable strings in the plugin alone, so sadly most translators won't even touch it anymore since for most 300-500 strings is the max.
And then there's the SKSE translation file with over 380 additional strings. Good thing i jumped onto it early. ^^

Alles klar  hehe 

 

[CGi]

7 minutes ago, Kalthen said:

Alles klar  hehe

Amazing that none of the users of the german translation reported my partially horrendous typos.

Found some of them myself playing the mod and seeing some them i almost puked all over my screen.

So if someone finds a typo, please feel free to let me know. ^^

[Lozeak]

33 minutes ago, CGi said:

But this way it's up to the player how fast arousal increases when using SL Aroused since it's settings can easily be altered in it's MCM and DF's arousal denier would then easier integrate with other mods that use SL:A's mechanics.

 

You might even add a function to the MCM to change SL:A's settings to ones that work better with DF and what you have in mind.

 

if you need modifiers SL:A doesn't provide then DF can deliver those and manipulate SL:A's values based on them.

 

SO I belt a player... 

SLA will mean within 1 game day the arousal is 100

I react to that 100

...... they is no where left to go. I just can't base denial off SL:A 

 

Suggested setting... O cool the deal work the way I want but SL:A Doesn't work the way it was intended outside that deal.

Update loop while deal is active : to control SL:A .... I'm control SL:A to communicate denial so I lock it at 50 .... other mods consider the player is slighlty aroused ...when this isn't the case.

 

So here's the thing, I belt the player that has an effect on SL:A and the belt system does that and imo that's as far as I need to go with SL:A/Arousal in this content. Pointless reacting to it (in this content) cause it will be lock usually at 100 because of the belt.

 

Next main thing is Denial is not the same thing as Arousal.

 

For example, if you have been denied sex for weeks .... they will be times you are still not aroused but that does not mean you would not do anything for a chance for release.

So a shock piercing firing off isn't gonna save you because it lowered your arousal... because mentally you'll be like "NOOOO, may I could of .... WHY!!??".  

 

That is what this deal is about as you get exposed to more and more sexual things while belted a stat builds up and is communicated to the player via notification/how the player reacts to game that would be dumb to play ....

Spoiler

Low chance at getting release.... on failure it teases you more(giving you worse options next time) and adds a day to a deal.

 

Basically, while your in the deal you need to try and avoid sexual content or get lucky with the terrible game or the deal is really bad for you. 

 

That is how I wanted to communicate denial.... player denied to the point they will make bad choices.

 

Either way that's just my way of doing it, I don't know if it's good but trying to communicate denial in a gamefied way was the intention and I'm up for tweaking it like I think I might give the player a way to have 1 orgasm if they agree to have a plug and more terrible options if denial is too high.... maybe agree to make a deal for just 1 orgasm I dunno.

 

Tldr verison;

 

Arousal != Denial

Denial is it's own stat

Player is belted so it does effect SL:A

Just the content reacts to sexual content rather than SL:A because it would just be at 100 with a belt on most of the time.

 

[CGi]

4 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

Next main thing is Denial is not the same thing as Arousal.

So you basically want to create a situation of despair caused by denial?
This changes things and by the sounds of it, it runs more or less ontop of Arousal.

[Lozeak]

1 minute ago, CGi said:

So you basically want to create a situation of despair caused by denial?
This changes things and by the sounds of it it runs more or less ontop of Arousal.

 

Yea ^^. 

[Lozeak]

15 minutes ago, CGi said:

This changes things and by the sounds of it, it runs more or less ontop of Arousal.

 

It can so you could have 100 arousal and say DCL rape triggers based off that ..... arousal won't drop cause of belt and you denial will build cause your put into sexual content.

 

[Reesewow]

32 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

 

Arousal != Denial

Denial is it's own stat

Player is belted so it does effect SL:A

Just the content reacts to sexual content rather than SL:A because it would just be at 100 with a belt on most of the time.

 

Yea, I think either way you'd need to be tracking your own stats even if you were basing it off of arousal in some way.  As you say arousal while belted tends to stay at 100 - shock piercings can drop this when they trigger which is kind of the equivalent of an ice bucket, but that is hardly a "release".  Sounds like you've implemented more of a "blue-ball" stat, can't wait to try it out.

 

I personally like the way arousal works with DCUL and some NPCs as it is a good gameplay trigger for stuff like traps (makes belts extremely dangerous due to the effect 100 arousal has on trap trigger rates with my settings).  I think it would be a bad idea to have DF directly interfere with arousal in an attempt to reflect long-term denial, since doing so would mess with people's other mods that depend on arousal functioning the way it does.  Trying to "lock" arousal at lower levels to reflect a slow progression would mean the deal could actually be a benefit by lowering the rate of DCUL traps and rape events for instance. 

 

Basically, I think doing so was a good idea and means I don't have to try to adjust all my other mods to work with DF's manipulation of SL Aroused.

[CGi]

1 hour ago, Lozeak said:

It can so you could have 100 arousal and say DCL rape triggers based off that ..... arousal won't drop cause of belt and you denial will build cause your put into sexual content.

Sounds futile ... my poor character ... LOVE iT! ^^

[Black Justicar]

Lozeak  , can you please make some kind of an automatic lockout (DF pause) on SD+ enslavement? Cause, i think, many people love both of this mods. 
And can you please add "Lock MCM settings" option, after X debt, like in DFW, or in DCL, or in Devious Keysmiths or in Devious Key Anticheat, for hardcore lovers?

[Reesewow]

4 hours ago, CGi said:

Thanks but i actually took longer than i thought.

No release without german translation. ☺️

DF managed to breach 1100 translateable strings in the plugin alone, so sadly most translators won't even touch it anymore since for most 300-500 strings is the max.
And then there's the SKSE translation file with over 380 additional strings. Good thing i jumped onto it early. ^^

Appreciate the quick FOMOD/EFF patch version as always, thanks.  Just out of curiosity before I patch my cleaned save, are you going to bother doing a version for 1.702 since the only patch notes for that version are English typo fixes?

[CGi]

53 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

Appreciate the quick FOMOD/EFF patch version as always, thanks.  Just out of curiosity before I patch my cleaned save, are you going to bother doing a version for 1.702 since the only patch notes for that version are English typo fixes?

There's a 1.702? -.-'
Going to update...

[Nazzzgul666]

Don't want to quote the whole story, my intent about using SL:A was rather than other mods react accordingly to your arousal system, if you prefer to avoid that intentionally it's a different story. Not entirely sure i prefer that yet, but quite curious now and from what i've seen so far i'm sure you'll create something great.

PS: @CGi I hope you don't mind that i keep using english versions of most mods, it's just a strange preference of mine and not meant as an offense to you.

[CGi]

27 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

PS: @CGi I hope you don't mind that i keep using english versions of most mods, it's just a strange preference of mine and not meant as an offense to you.

You can play the game - and by this the mods - in any language you like. No offense taken.

My post was meant for those, who actually play the mod in german.

[Lupine00]

First off, it's so frustrating that I can't play Skyrim right now. DF is moving so fast that it's crazy. I really want to try it out.

Actually, it's moving so fast that trying to play a real game with it would be awkward.

 

It needs to stabilize a bit more before it's worth anyone messing with the dialogue, because tomorrow it might have a bunch of new deals!

Hopefully that point is coming soon, and it will just be bug fixing...

 

 

With "denial", this is a lot like the frustration mechanic I talked about on DCL and CD forums a while back. I'm happy to see it getting implemented without having to do it myself  What I've always said is that debuffs are not as fun as effects you can see directly (somehow), so I hope DF will go that way and focus less on simply adding stat modifiers. If you have to open the active effects menu to see what's happening to your character, things aren't so immersive.

 

One detail that nobody has mentioned yet: the debuff that SLAR adds takes time with arousal stuck at 100 to ramp the debuff up to 80%, so SLAR does have an existing mechanic to build up a measure of sexual frustration. However, I think there's plenty of scope to do more and better than that. That debuff is somewhat extreme, and fairly dull, and generally not great gameplay, so DF could easily do better.

 

[eulexia]

49 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

It needs to stabilize a bit more before it's worth anyone messing with the dialogue, because tomorrow it might have a bunch of new deals!

Hopefully that point is coming soon, and it will just be bug fixing...

Too late, already went through and provided a ton of dialogue fixes.  When there's more stuff, I'll be happy to go through and look over that stuff too. 

[Lozeak]

So you can use esp translator to apply dialog alterations even if the altered esp is outdated so basically I can apply any decent alterations if people take the time to do it.

 

Played my mod today...... Omg, it's so evil ^^

Few things that happened .....

 

So I thought I had enough gold to remove a armbinder but the follower recently got knocked down (reducing gold I'm allowed to carry) and the debt cost was +111% Thx chaos mode......

 

Key game screwed me 2k for a restraint key that broke straight away....

 

Either way had to made deals and my willpower has bottomed out....

 

Only allowed to carry 50g(low will power = high min gold chance) (all my stuff had recently been robbed too) over 6 deals active being told I might be sold soon.... 

This mod really gives the feeling of slowly going from an adventurer to a slave which is so awesome :D.

 

I do need to think about some reverse difficulty additions (like how I made the sex thievery have less effect the less willpower you have).

A system based off deals I thing should be good like 5-10% Debt per day reduction per deal (capped at 80-100%) and device removal cost reduction the more deals you have.

It something for me to think about cause really, I'm not sure it easy to escape enslavement will also allow players to set hard settings at the start know they will be easy once they have made a lot of deals.

 

It's stuff to think about :).

 

[Reesewow]

26 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

I do need to think about some reverse difficulty additions (like how I made the sex thievery have less effect the less willpower you have).

A system based off deals I thing should be good like 5-10% Debt per day reduction per deal (capped at 80-100%) and device removal cost reduction the more deals you have.

It something for me to think about cause really, I'm not sure it easy to escape enslavement will also allow players to set hard settings at the start know they will be easy once they have made a lot of deals.

 

It's stuff to think about :).

 

Firstly, the new level 3 deal seems awesome - I haven't properly played with it yet (just goofed around a bit with waiting with a follower while under the deal) but I love how it seems to feed your other deals, and definitely look forward to running it for awhile.  Secondly, thanks @eulexia for the editing work on the .esp, and of course Lozeak for implementing it so fast - between Lupine's earlier work and the new edited lines the dialogue is a pleasure to read now.

 

 

Idea dump below. 

 

On the topic of difficulty - at least with how I play Devious Followers the biggest trap is when I end up having to make a bunch of deals because I'm lacking money, which eventually translates into having to take a "punishing" level 3 deal.  At that point, my willpower is on a very quick decline and is very likely to hit rock-bottom before I can buy out of my deals - this means that I'm required to have 6 deals unless I can buy out of them all at once.  This can be really challenging, because every time I take a new deal, I need to wait ~ 3 days for it to be reasonable for me to pay it off, and a single overpriced deal means I'm still stuck keeping at least 6 deals running.  I also don't play with chaos mod or gold-control mode, so I imagine it could be way harder to get free than I'm experiencing.  This isn't a bad thing, but I do agree that a few more "player friendly" options could be a good addition to balance out all the "you're so screwed" options. 

 

 

Idea:  Optional "mini-game" events that if accepted will reduce a random deal's duration by 1 day

 

Your new level 3 denial deal gave me an idea for a difficulty reducing option I think could be a lot of fun - now that you've put in so much effort to make it so deals can be randomly extended, why not have an optional feature that does the opposite and reduces the time remaining on a random deal?  I think if you combine the style of the "games" with the way the level 3 denial deal works, you could have a fun option for players trying to stay afloat until their deals all time out and they can pay them all off at once. 

 

 

The idea is that once the player reaches the point where the follower requires them to have 6 deals before they can pay off debt, an additional option could show up in the deals menu.  This option could be something like "I don't know how much more of this I can take, isn't there anything I can do to help get out of these deals faster?".  If selected, the follower could request the player do something particularly humiliating - basically mini-games.  Just like the denial deal, this dialogue could be offered only once every 24 hours so you can't spam it, and if you refuse the offer it goes on cooldown anyway. 

 

Rather than be really complicated scenes like the older "games" these could be relatively simple, and instead use super-submissive dialogue (since the PC is basically begging the follower for leniency and is at very low willpower - the games wouldn't be available at high willpower).  This could also be a good way to add a lot of humiliation-style creature scenes like going into pens with domestic critters and drawing a crowd (skeevers/dogs/wolves ect), if you wanted to include more of that type of content (now that there is a "disable" button).

 

Some ideas of "mini-games":

 

- admit to a crime you didn't commit - you are required to go to a guard and admit to petty crimes against your follower (that you didn't commit).  Your follower could then imply that they wouldn't ask for jail time or a bounty if the guard is willing to punish you on the spot... off the books.

 

- put on a public show - you need to put on a show for a crowd in one of the major cities.  One way to do this could be to need to walk to any major city with NPCs around and talk to your follower.  After a black-screen transition, they could have "prepped" for the show by spawning in some actors for you to trigger a scene with and draw in nearby city NPCs to cheer/clap.  If creature content is enabled the "actors" could be a variety of critters (your follower seems to have lots of tricks up their sleeve, if the Jarl game is anything to go by).

 

- mini stables game - the follower wants you to show your appreciation to the horse-breeders of Skyrim, go visit any Holster in Skyrim and do what they ask.  If creature content is enabled - possibly they want you to show your appreciation to a horse

 

- mini-slave event - basically a much smaller version of the enslaved pig scene, the follower demands you crawl and takes you to a nearby NPC, offering you for a pittance.

 

- mini-inn event - again, small version of the straitjacket game, no jacket required but you still need to go to an inn and offer your services for free

 

[Hex Bolt]

9 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

- admit to a crime you didn't commit - you are required to go to a guard and admit to petty crimes against your follower (that you didn't commit).  Your follower could then imply that they wouldn't ask for jail time or a bounty if the guard is willing to punish you on the spot... off the books.

Love this idea.  Simple, and wicked.  Also, and no offense to those who enjoy such things, the bestiality thing seems overused now, kinda like how the earlier DD mods just wanted to lock you in a belt, and the novelty wore off fast.  Variety is good, so this would be a fun little mini game. 

[Reesewow]

20 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

Love this idea.  Simple, and wicked.  Also, and no offense to those who enjoy such things, the bestiality thing seems overused now, kinda like how the earlier DD mods just wanted to lock you in a belt, and the novelty wore off fast.  Variety is good, so this would be a fun little mini game. 

For sure, variety is important and there is a portion of users that avoid that content.  I find beast content is used sparingly in DF so far, at least compared to many mods out there (which admittedly tend to overdo it when dialogue would make things more interesting), but that makes sense being as without a toggle it could risk alienating some users that have been playing the mod all along.

 

Now that there is an actual toggle button for creature content in the MCM menu however, I think that should give Lozeak free reign to add as much or as little as he likes with the knowledge those that don't like it can disable it.  I just assume he is interested in such content since the stable game was one of the earliest features of the mod.

[Lastbdsm]

Hi, thanks for your mod. I've been using it for a little while now.
Btw, can you add some simple flogging/whipping as punishment? It's kinda weird not seeing those thing in these types of mod.

[SkyAddiction]

3 hours ago, Reesewow said:

For sure, variety is important and there is a portion of users that avoid that content.  I find beast content is used sparingly in DF so far, at least compared to many mods out there (which admittedly tend to overdo it when dialogue would make things more interesting), but that makes sense being as without a toggle it could risk alienating some users that have been playing the mod all along.

 

Now that there is an actual toggle button for creature content in the MCM menu however, I think that should give Lozeak free reign to add as much or as little as he likes with the knowledge those that don't like it can disable it.  I just assume he is interested in such content since the stable game was one of the earliest features of the mod.

 

Yeah, not particularly a fan of creature content here, but I agree that your idea is sound in principle. Either way, it would feed directly into my "avoidance" style of play quite neatly. God, this mod is great; combined with DCL, my PC has to be very careful doing just about anything, and that now includes employing a follower in the first place, something my custom, modded difficulty and economics almost demand at certain points.

[Nazzzgul666]

I wouldn't mind more creature content, for me it's rather the other way around: mods which don't use them exaggerate on everything else. 

If we're gonna share our scary stories... i was in a gag deal and a couple of others, tried to earn money via radiant prostitution. Worked a bit in a bar, then went to my customer for a home visit, started talking... DCUL decided that i said something that's a major crime and POP triggered, taking everything i've earned so far and punishing me bad.

POP is one of those mods that would profit from some bestiality imho.^^

Spending the night in the kennels or something.

[Lupine00]

Of course I'm aware of ESP translator, as I keep trying to promote its use - but I'm also aware of the hours it took to rewrite the highly templated text that Lozeak experimented with. He backed away from adding a lot more templated stuff, and I can guess why  Templates are fiddly to write and just as tedious to typecheck.

 

 

New difficulty balancing features would be great, because there needs to be a sliver of hope to keep you engaged. If it's hopeless then you have nothing to work for.

 

It sounds like with the new sell-on features that DF is becoming what I wanted SD+ to be, as well as having the follower functionality I'd always hoped DCL would provide.

 

It really is a great piece of work, and Lozeak continues to surprise.

 

 

I think DF didn't add whipping and beating as those were things overdone at the time. Slaverun and SD+ are basically whip and rape mods in the extreme, and Slaverun is so creature heavy too... Only six months ago, the slavery mod space was dominated by that. Now, DF, DH, and SLAdventures have changed that and rebalanced things a bit.

 

 

But I wouldn't mind seeing some more content like that, if it were delivered in an interesting way and had some gameplay in it, rather than being another sit and watch borefest. I've seen enough whip animations for that to never be fun by itself. Likewise, I've seen enough creature animations that they aren't interesting in themselves, they need to be part of a game, or have more context.

 

 

This brings up PoP. PoP is both great and awful. I love the intent, and much of the execution is nicely done, but it has a bugs and buggy interactions with other mods. It's a mod I'm very wary of (along with SD+) in terms of looking at the stuff in my log file and seeing things that look seriously wrong. PoP has blown up on me big-time in the past. I really want PoP to work, but it's lost my trust.

 

PoP's whip and run "minigame" is better than the situations where you simply get glued to some furniture and beaten, but there's not really any consequence if you fail (there isn't really a way to fail), it's just a bit of fun. I can't complain about fun now, can I? But it could be more fun.

 

Probably a moot question as it's not on the roadmap, but It's a tough call, should DF lean on PoP for some extra prison spice, or should it implement its own solutions? I don't think Lozeak will ever make PoP a requirement, so the former will always make things optional, but the latter makes retaining PoP compatibility harder.

 

 

Selling on...

 

I'm not convinced that selling the PC on to any old NPC is a good idea. It just makes more sense for you to be sold to a suitable "follower", and if there aren't enough, Lozeak could always make up a few new characters. It takes time, but it has other benefits. Those new followers would always be there for a player to recruit, and could enable lots of new stuff that might be more awkward to do with a pre-existing follower. There would be less chance of other mods messing with them, and their dialogue would be pure DF goodness. So, DF-from-the-ground up followers is really something I'd love to see.

 

I don't object to the concept of getting transferred to a weaker follower, but I'm wary of the technical issues of getting transferred to an arbitrary NPC, who may have vanilla quest content, or behaviours that don't work well on a follower. Nobody wants a repeat of SD+ masters that mindlessly sandbox for sixteen hours then go to sleep, do they? A follower who suddenly starts locking doors and telling you to get out wouldn't be fun either. And really, why would those people buy the PC in the first place? You don't buy a violent killing machine and then use it as  a table ornament unless you are a bit Sheogorath in the head.

[jampr]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

 

This brings up PoP. PoP is both great and awful. I love the intent, and much of the execution is nicely done, but it has a bugs and buggy interactions with other mods. It's a mod I'm very wary of (along with SD+) in terms of looking at the stuff in my log file and seeing things that look seriously wrong. PoP has blown up on me big-time in the past. I really want PoP to work, but it's lost my trust.

 

PoP's whip and run "minigame" is better than the situations where you simply get glued to some furniture and beaten, but there's not really any consequence if you fail (there isn't really a way to fail), it's just a bit of fun. I can't complain about fun now, can I? But it could be more fun.

 

What's PoP?

[Fenroo]

Enjoying the new denial deal a lot. (My character is not, naturally). I did have some suggestions to make it even better, though. 

 

I assume the denial deal ends like others do, after the time is up. To make things more interesting, like a fly struggling in a spider's web, perhaps you could consider the following:

 

Tie the deals end to willpower. For example, If the willpower is 5, there's a 5 in 10 chance that the deal ends normally. If the willpower is 1, there's only a 1 in 10 chance of the deal ending. If the willpower check is failed, the devious follower will note that the time is up, but simply decline to remove the device and re up it instead. Say something like "I know it's time, but I think you need to be locked up longer". Same things for buyouts. An attempt to buy out could result in the player paying gold and not getting released. 

 

Another possibility is in addition to the follower allowing an attempt at self gratification once a day, the player could also approach the follower at any time and ask for some relief.  It would run with the same odds as the normal daily relief offer, except that it wouldn't be free. It could be based on the players arousal, or maybe time in chastity (with some cap I suppose).

 

 

Anyway loving this mod, thanks for the great work. ?