Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[Corsayr]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

In what way is it better than DCL, which I sort of get for free?

Well apart from the obvious (not requiring the rest of DCL)

 

I found DCL combat defeat wasn't a 100% removal of vanilla death. There are a number of conditions under which you will still die. ND is 100% (this is the biggest issue for me)

 

I forget if DCL is one of the ones that has a dialog tree, but ND does not have that. 

[Lupine00]

40 minutes ago, Corsayr said:

I found DCL combat defeat wasn't a 100% removal of vanilla death. There are a number of conditions under which you will still die. ND is 100% (this is the biggest issue for me)

You must not have enabled the Essential feature then, as it sets that flag, and you cannot die, no matter what. It's how every other combat defeat mod achieves that same end.

Instead, it will let you leap off mountains.

 

It confuses Frostfall no end, as its trying to kill you, and you ... just ... won't ... die. You get perma-stuck in icy bleedout, unless maybe you wait for warmer weather of something.

[Kalthen]

Has anyone tested EFF successfully? I didn't have any probs without a Follower Mod but can't get to dismiss my follower properly after paying off everything with EFF. AFT might be another story.

[Lupine00]

10 minutes ago, Kalthen said:

Has anyone tested EFF successfully? I didn't have any probs without a Follower Mod but can't get to dismiss my follower properly after paying off everything with EFF. AFT might be another story.

With the EFF patch, or without?

[Lupine00]

Speaking of DF not working...

 

I made a new game with the latest 2.02a version.

DF wouldn't start properly after recruitment.

 

Instead, the "Hope you don't try to cheat me..." message would repeat every few seconds.

Adding via the debug menu clearly didn't work either.

Tried to reset everything, pause, unpause, all the usual attempts to reset.

 

No change.

 

 

How do I get DF working with the latest?

[Tiress]

7 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Speaking of DF not working...

 

I made a new game with the latest 2.02a version.

DF wouldn't start properly after recruitment.

 

Instead, the "Hope you don't try to cheat me..." message would repeat every few seconds.

Adding via the debug menu clearly didn't work either.

Tried to reset everything, pause, unpause, all the usual attempts to reset.

 

No change.

 

 

How do I get DF working with the latest?

It's working fine for me so far. Couldn't it be just Skyrim being Skyrim?

[Kalthen]

SD+ doesn't really play well with DF. I was trying to figure out why I couldn't get the bindings form the deal "tied" equipped and it finally showed when I got the petsuit instead. I was somehow still wearing the binding from a last dreamworld visit. For some reason they didn't show up in my inventory. 

 

Just wanted to post this in case someone was getting the same issue. I was not DF it was SD+.

 

 

[kionee]

Yea having the same problem as most of the people here, not using slave tats, rdo or any companion style mods like eff, etc. Frustrating as this is one of my favorite mods, 

[Lupine00]

58 minutes ago, kionee said:

Yea having the same problem as most of the people here, not using slave tats, rdo or any companion style mods like eff, etc. Frustrating as this is one of my favorite mods, 

My game starts fine. I have the older Slave Tats, but I do have RDO. I don't have EFF as I decided it was "easy mode" and dropped it out.

My DF doesn't start fine.

 

I'm trying moving it to nearly last in LO to see if that changes anything.

I guess I'll also drop RDO out.

 

In fact, will probably try starting DF once the game is established, by adding it on the tail of the LO.

[Tiress]

Nether's Follower Framework doesn't play nice with DF either. It kind of works at first glance, but dialogue options seem to be somewhat duplicated and unresponsive to actual state and most importantly it somehow sets PlayerFollowerCount to 0 even though you have an active follower. Mods like Sexlab Survival then cannot work properly when they check this variable.

[pihwht]

12 hours ago, Tiress said:

Nether's Follower Framework doesn't play nice with DF either. It kind of works at first glance, but dialogue options seem to be somewhat duplicated and unresponsive to actual state and most importantly it somehow sets PlayerFollowerCount to 0 even though you have an active follower. Mods like Sexlab Survival then cannot work properly when they check this variable.

Nether's worked fine for me with two different characters.

[SkyAddiction]

On 4/21/2019 at 9:15 PM, Lupine00 said:

The horrors of DAmoyl are being overstated here. It does produce problems - sometimes nasty - but many other mods do worse and nobody wails so much about them. Like most other mods with problems, reloading an earlier save fixes the issues.

 

That said, I rarely ever put DAmoyl in a LO, and if I do, it's only to make SD+ combat surrender work.

 

DAYMOYL introduces intermittent, stupidly difficult to isolate, and unrecoverable bugs. It's not that it's unplayable, it's that the problems are so hard to track down and identify. Being forced to reload for no identifiable reason is fucking aggravating. That's why I ditched it and possibly why Kimy doesn't support it.

 

Does it work as a mod? Yes. Does it work the majority of the time? Yes. Does it occasionally fuck your last hour of play? Yes. It's the last that's exceptionally frustrating and can't be fixed because it's almost impossible to figure out exactly why. 

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, SkyAddiction said:

Does it work as a mod? Yes. Does it work the majority of the time? Yes. Does it occasionally fuck your last hour of play? Yes. It's the last that's exceptionally frustrating and can't be fixed because it's almost impossible to figure out exactly why. 

But that's true for about 20% of mods, so it's hardly the devil in that respect. Like I said, I very rarely use it, because it does cause issues, but combat defeat is hairy generally.

[SkyAddiction]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

But that's true for about 20% of mods, so it's hardly the devil in that respect. Like I said, I very rarely use it, because it does cause issues, but combat defeat is hairy generally.

 

No, it's hardly the 'devil' in that respect, just infuriatingly difficult to figure out why it fails, and the author refused to address its issues even once, so pretty much every other alternative is better. 

 

Pretty much everything else fails in easily determinable ways: DCL, Defeat, Submission, etc. That makes them objectively better. DAYMOYL isn't worse, it's just mistifiable in its failure, which is kind of inexcusable when there are better alternatives.

[aldmerisuper1]

I have been scouring through this thread, trying to find an answer before I asked any of you, but I couldn't find a solution, if there is one.

 

My problem is that my mod just won't start, once I have a follower with me it gives me the initial message that says something along the lines of hoping my character won't screw the follower around like the other adventurers. And then nothing happens, except every once in a while that message shows up again. I've tried every debugging option possible too, but no change. I've used LOOT, I've started new games, nothing.

 

Does anyone know what the issue could be?

[aldmerisuper1]

53 minutes ago, Zagzaguel said:

Are you sure you read the past few pages?

 

Slavetats 1.3 and RDO are causing this issue

If youre using Slavetats go back to 1.2.3

If youre using RDO disable it

 

If you using none deactivate all your mods (except DF + requir.) and activate all others one after another until you find the conflicting mod

What is RDO? And I don't have Slavetats.

[aldmerisuper1]

5 minutes ago, Zagzaguel said:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/74568

Don't have that one either. But I'll see what I can find out and if I find anything out I will share my findings here.

[Tiress]

 

Spoiler

15 hours ago, pihwht said:

Nether's worked fine for me with two different characters.

4 hours ago, Zagzaguel said:

I had 2 diffrent dismiss commands simultanously on 1.72 (I believe), 2.02a still has them but they arent in the same dialouge menu anymore. Theres the vanilla dismiss command (with vanilla voice) and once you dismiss him and NFF says that the followers been dismissed you can talk to this follower again and theres another dismiss command which plays the DF line (Farewell slave.. I mean former slave line)

But that didnt had any impact on my game.. or at least I didnt realize that any debt has been added after I dismissed my follower

 

Didnt realize any other bugs (I wasnt using any other follower mods next to NFF and DF)

 

 

@Lupine00 

Naked Dungeons defeat is literally just that. It sets the palyer to essential and when his HP drops to 0 .. well.. yea

You can set the probability for a gangbang and it offers a bridge to simple slavery, robbery and lock onto furniture .. so not really anything too special

 

 

Both NFF and DF work fine (for most part anyway), it's what they can cause together that I'm worried about. Impact on SLS is just one example, but it probably affects all mods that work with the same variable.

 

PS: I really like ND and it's defeat system (especially it's retrieve quest). Only thing that bothers me is it's selection of rapers as it just gathers valid enemies from surrounding area being it bandits who defeated you or wolfs who had no idea you were even there.

[eulexia]

There is a somewhat awkward collision between the modular "must wear a gag" deal and the tape gag deal.  

 

If you're wearing a non-tape gag, then your follower can't apply the tape, but will get annoyed by your mouth being 'free'.  

 

If you're not wearing a gag, then your follower can apply the tape, but you'll get punished for being ungagged during the intervening period.

 

It just gets really a bit funky in terms of the interaction, making your follower seem like they have a split personality.  I'd recommend setting these as incompatible bets, if that's possible.  

[Lupine00]

22 hours ago, Zagzaguel said:

Are you sure you read the past few pages?

 

Slavetats 1.3 and RDO are causing this issue

If youre using Slavetats go back to 1.2.3

If youre using RDO disable it

 

To say that this was proven is a bit of an overreach.

 

Doesn't hurt to try without them, but I think that you had to have both, and it caused a crash on game start more often than not.

 

With neither, I still had the issue. I think the poster being replied to here had neither of them either.

[Mehmeme]

Hey guys, Im trying to replace the armor with a custom armor. Is it possible to make one armor contain two pieces? I want to make one armor made of two parts of a bikini (so the bra and the panties). Or, if this isnt possible, can I somehow merge the two .nif files so they are treated as one armor?

[Lupine00]

12 hours ago, Mehmeme said:

Hey guys, Im trying to replace the armor with a custom armor. Is it possible to make one armor contain two pieces? I want to make one armor made of two parts of a bikini (so the bra and the panties). Or, if this isnt possible, can I somehow merge the two .nif files so they are treated as one armor?

Totally possible, but both the NIF and the AA must be in alignment on what slots they claim to use.

 

An armor item can't have two NIFs, so if your item is currently two NIFs, you will need to combine them. I think you can do it with Outfit Studio IIRC.

[Hanshurtig11]

Just tried again with latest version. Cant remember if i had started without DF, or removed and cleaned in early gamestate. Well, tried now midgame (level 40 or so) with latest version , and .. even with Slavetats 1.3 installed..... it works. No Followermod thou. I had a follower (Lydia) allready with me, and after the allready know phrase.. i talked to her and.. hat "click me" as an option.

So, another mystery added   . Maybe it was cause i had the follower allready with me, when i installed. I dont know. regards

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Hanshurtig11 said:

So, another mystery added

Maybe it was because you added to an established game, and didn't have DF running at game start when you first initialised your entire stack of mods, and presumably also put it last in your LO...

 

Those two factors are non-mysterious, so it could be one, or both of them. Loading into an established game would avoid the inappropriate-load-path problems that occur with badly implemented soft-dep chains.

 

 

However, I've tried adding DF to an existing game, last in LO, and it's still as broken as ever for me.

I don't have RDO, or SlaveTats 1.3.0, and I don't have a follower mod, and despite these measures, all I get is repeated "Hope you don't try to cheat me..."

 

See these log entries:

Spoiler

 

[04/25/2019 - 11:43:36PM] Error: Unable to link type of variable "::Q_var" on object "TIF_Dflow_080053A0"
[04/25/2019 - 11:43:36PM] Error: Unable to link type of property "Q" on object "TIF_Dflow_080053A0"

 

[04/25/2019 - 11:44:53PM] warning: Property DebugV on script TIF_Dflow_0815A1A3 attached to topic info D115A1A3 on quest _DFlowStarterDebug (D10239EE) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property
[04/25/2019 - 11:44:53PM] warning: Property HirelingRecognizeStenvar on script TIF_Dflow_0815A1A3 attached to topic info D115A1A3 on quest _DFlowStarterDebug (D10239EE) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property
[04/25/2019 - 11:44:53PM] warning: Property Q on script TIF_Dflow_0815A1A3 attached to topic info D115A1A3 on quest _DFlowStarterDebug (D10239EE) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property
[04/25/2019 - 11:44:53PM] warning: Property fac on script TIF_Dflow_0815A1A3 attached to topic info D115A1A3 on quest _DFlowStarterDebug (D10239EE) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property
[04/25/2019 - 11:44:53PM] warning: Property ra on script TIF_Dflow_0815A1A3 attached to topic info D115A1A3 on quest _DFlowStarterDebug (D10239EE) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property
[04/25/2019 - 11:44:54PM] warning: Property _DMaster on script TIF_Dflow_080053A0 attached to topic info D10053A0 on quest _DflowStarter (D10151AE) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property
[04/25/2019 - 11:44:54PM] warning: Property Q on script TIF_Dflow_080053A0 attached to topic info D10053A0 on quest _DflowStarter (D10151AE) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property
[04/25/2019 - 11:44:54PM] warning: Property fac on script TIF_Dflow_080053A0 attached to topic info D10053A0 on quest _DflowStarter (D10151AE) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property

 

[04/25/2019 - 11:46:31PM] Error: Unable to link type of variable "::Q_var" on object "TIF_Dflow_080053A0"
[04/25/2019 - 11:46:31PM] Error: Unable to link type of property "Q" on object "TIF_Dflow_080053A0"

 

Looks like it can't initialise factions to start the quest.

 

 

I was  hoping my history of hacking DF was at an end, but it seems that DF won't let me quit. I have a nasty feeling I won't get this working without editing the ESP and rebuilding scripts.

 

If this is working for anyone, like the poster above, it's probably because of traces of an old game still remaining.

[Kalthen]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I don't have RDO, or SlaveTats 1.3.0, and I don't have a follower mod, and despite these measures, all I get is repeated "Hope you don't try to cheat me..."

A support for RDO is super heavy work. The changes to the dialogue trees are massive. Even getting EFF to work is quite hard. The patch used to be just  esp provided by CGI (which kinda worked) and now the script one has no effect for me. My best guess something screwed with the dialogue injection. So I ditched follower frameworks. For the same effect of RDO, I run FCO and Immersive Citizens and I am quite happy.  

 

As for slavetats; I am running 1.30 just fine. If you don't use the feature in DF I don't see why it would impact DF not starting.

 

I am running a game and started with 2.0 and uninstalled and clean saved to the latest version. I have never been able to start the mod automatically... when I add the starting dialogue via debug DF works just fine.

 

I have DF pretty low on my LO, but that doesn't matter that much as I check and patch everything manually anyway. So if you see no conflicts in DF (TES5Edit) my best guess would be something changed recruitment from an earlier versions due to compatibility for other Follower Frameworks. Which would explain errors on faction return.

 

@Lozeak If supporting Follower Frameworks is too much of a hassle, I wouldn't mind a fall back. It worked just fine in 1.X. The fun out of the modular deals just trump what you get out of Follower Frameworks, imo. In fact, the only thing I miss is adding multiple Followers. If that could be a part of DF, like being in dept to just one more temporary Follower... that could be great.