The PC Gamer article on LL

[Vintovka98]

Link here: http://www.pcgamer.com/skyrim-sex-mods/

 

Thoughts?

 

I personally found it interesting that almost half of the article is on rape and the associated research. For a general exposé piece on LL, they sure focused their research, skipping other controversial topics like prostitution and sexual slavery altogether, and never delve into necrophilia and bestiality to the same degree. Not to mention the fact that sex mods existed on nexus anyways and are reasonably popular as well (JoshNZ's Animated Prostitution has 3.7 million total downloads on nexus). Overall an article that got a little carried away, I just didn't expect such a long explanation of the psychology of rape (especially in relation to the total length of the article) when clicking on an article about "the Skyrim sex modding community".

 

Also the haters in the comments, but that's 100% expected.

[D_ManXX2]

So who invited this jackass anyway ?? So he did not play OSA ??

[DoctaSax]

80k members sounds a very low-balled figure. I don't have access to the numbers but way back when Ashal tried to do the site upgrade, the membership figure shown was ten times that, and that's quite a while ago, and we've had the releases of FO4 and SSE and a burgeoning sims scene happening in the mean time.

 

Other than that, I think it's good that there's some professional insights about how fantasy doesn't lead to acting it out in real life. Something we all know, but for the sake of a general public that needs its assurances, I guess that's a good thing. Then again, casual throwaway adjectives like "uncomfortable" and "troubling" are really too subjective for factual reporting.

[Ashal]

So who invited this jackass anyway ?? So he did not play OSA ??

 

Everybody he interviewed did so willingly, myself included.

 

And during the interview when he asked me if there were any other modders I'd suggest talking to, I first suggested the author of OSA, but they were inactive on the site for several months at the time.

[D_ManXX2]

Maybe my English is not that good. but looks like i either did not understand the artical very well or it was just another slander of loverslab ?? What was the point of this ?? The artical did not sound that positive though.. 

[Ashal]

Maybe my English is not that good. but looks like i either did not understand the artical very well or it was just another slander of loverslab ?? What was the point of this ?? The artical did not sound that positive though.. 

 

I take issue with the subtitle of the article coming across as immediately negative and that it glosses over the many of the "normal" mods on the site, and find it weird that it mentions they expected vampire erotica, which itself can frequently be seen as a type of rape fantasy. All of which are concerns that I've shared with the author since it was posted, though I haven't gotten a reply back yet.

 

The article itself though, while starting off feeling negative, I think by the end does fine with explaining that there is no clear link between fantasy and real life for this kind of thing.

[Veladarius]

Overall I thought the article wasn't bad and can understand how the author thought some of the content made them uncomfortable as (most) all of us have some things that we are not into that is available here. The author of the article seems to have actually done some research instead of glancing at the site and just start bashing away at it.

 

 

Edit: cool, the picture they have is from outside the Captured Dreams shop, too bad you can't see the sign.

[GrimReaper]

 

 

But whether some of these mods are even legal, the cultural implications and psychological impact they have, and who should be responsible for regulating them are all questions we should be considering carefully.

 

Interesting conclusion after quoting all those professionals who weren't concerned or startled about these things but shrugged them off as pretty normal.

[tobleron]

just lol , i think i ve read it here in a mod's forum "leaving a pile of dead bodies" as i "play" seems to b just ok ,while non "politicaly" correct + player chosen digits sex ought to b censored, by who i wonder..

 But then again , even article writers can b trolls no? after all ,it is their piece;s impact that they work towards

[shunter]

I was mostly neutral towards the article until the last few lines:

"Mods like Defeat, and the players who use them, are only one part of LoversLab—but they also represent a dilemma that stems from having the free and open communities we often celebrate as PC gamers. Modding has always been seen as a vibrant expression of creativity, a kind of dialogue between gamers and developers that gives rise to amazing projects like the Enderal, essentially a new game built inside of Skyrim. But mods also enable creators and players to explore interests and taboos that can deeply upset or concern many people.

The freedom of the internet already provides many ways to explore these ideas, and maybe mods are just another expression of the desire to do so. But whether some of these mods are even legal, the cultural implications and psychological impact they have, and who should be responsible for regulating them are all questions we should be considering carefully."

 

The irony in this statement is quite amusing. To celebrate PC gaming and hail how naturally it gives its users almost complete control of certain aspects of games through modding while at the same time encouraging 'intellectual stimulation' on how 'we' (as in, the thought police, not the actual modders or the users) should, and I quote, "be responsible for regulating them" because it might hurt someone's feelings almost makes me question if the author is actually someone who plays games (whether modded or not) or just a soccer mom who occasionally plays Angry Birds on her mobile trying to push an agenda. The 'I don't like it and the voices in my head tell me we should ban it' agenda that plagues every facet of our society nowadays.

 

Don't be mistaken; these are the same people who would go on a rampage back in the good ol' days of DOOM, Quake, Postal, and so on and so forth. Although there are several writers on PCG, I'll just assume it's a single entity, just for the sake of convenience: ironically enough, these are also the same people who would jump within the blink of an eye into the "don't touch mah GTA" bandwagon if those types of games were to come under siege. Just scroll through the past articles. In other words: different times, different agenda, different winds, but same arseholes.

 

 

[Myst42]

Hah!... this thread again

This thing will be discussed over and over again, and it is a natural process that must happen for every single little lost soul that wonders to the dark realms of LL

 

I made my own peace long ago when I first came here

Fantasy not equals reality blah blah blah...

Should be obvious but for some it isn't

One powerful reasoning I came across, also regarding this is, most games are about killing things

You kill enemies by the thousands and not shed a tear. And yet nobody seems to care anymore

More important, do you see a worldwide generation of gamers turning out to be mass produced serial killers?

No?

Exactly, that's cause Killing is the same as sex mods and digital girls: A Fantasy (Duh)

 

On the bright side, it's nice to see the author went to the trouble of actually knocking some doors and meeting some of you guys and doing serious research to support the inevitable conclusion.

[D_ManXX2]

So when are they going to make artical on nexus trolls.. are we going to regulate that too..

 

 

 

The freedom of the internet already provides many ways to explore these ideas, and maybe mods are just another expression of the desire to do so. But whether some of these mods are even legal, the cultural implications and psychological impact they have, and who should be responsible for regulating them are all questions we should be considering carefully. 

 

Bit weird what needs regulations. the only thing needs regulation are media. It's fake, fake artical.

 

 

What is weird is that he mentions defeat but defeat can also be played as normal neutral character you dont need to play those part, you can still play a good guy capturing a bandit and deliver them to authority, they will even give you a bounty afterwards, no mention of any of this ??

 

Guess he never used MCM menu and turned all the part off that he did not like to begin with, if he did then suddenly even defeat was no longer so bad was it ? This mod is very customizable if only he looked further or read the main mod page.

 

good thing he not check adult section: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/63947-pee-and-fart/ maybe he would have mentioned pee and fart speaking of realism.. 

 

Peeing on this artical would have been more fitting:

http://www.loverslab.com/index.php?app=downloads&module=display&section=screenshot&record=473041&id=3024&full=1

 

[DoctaSax]

I don't even expect press about LL to be glowingly positive. For many, some of the extreme content we host here is indeed troubling, so it's normal that it's questioned, and LL should be able to live with that. A piece like this is written for a broad audience, and the best you can hope for is that it's factual and balanced.

 

The problem is ofc that despite it providing context about rape fantasy by asking scientists, which is definitely providing more balance than others have done before, the article itself is quite unbalanced and leading. It promises a look at the sex modding scene, in general, but is really about the rape mods, whether or not people should be concerned, and wondering who should be in charge of 'regulating' some content that may 'deeply upset' people who don't use it. Now, now. Don't call your congressman just yet.  

[SimpleSpectre]

It seemed that the author of the article did some actual research and then just generally ignored all of it to underscore censorship and regulation. 

 

Seems that society in general is getting more and more thin skinned.

[Corsayr]

There is some weird idea in the general public that what someone finds as a "turn on" is in some way an optional selection.

 

I for one was not handed a clip board with a list of things to be my "turn ons" and to check the ones I wanted. I am there for left with the involuntary framework of what my sub conscious mind finds arousing.

 

Specifically for me that is rape fantasy (of me) and unintentional public nudity (again of me).

 

Both of which have huge practical downside for real life enactment. I therefor am hugely grateful to this community for providing a virtual outlet. 

 

I don't care what some puffed up puff piece says, there are good things happening here.

[NNS10]

 

But whether some of these mods are even legal, the cultural implications and psychological impact they have, and who should be responsible for regulating them are all questions we should be considering carefully.

 

Interesting conclusion after quoting all those professionals who weren't concerned or startled about these things but shrugged them off as pretty normal.

 

 

My thoughts exactly. He's trying to appear unbiased but it's quite clear what his true stance is. And the mention of regulation is ridiculous. Regulating fiction? Getting SJW vibes...

[27X]

I don't even expect press about LL to be glowingly positive. For many, some of the extreme content we host here is indeed troubling, so it's normal that it's questioned, and LL should be able to live with that. A piece like this is written for a broad audience, and the best you can hope for is that it's factual and balanced.

 

The problem is ofc that despite it providing context about rape fantasy by asking scientists, which is definitely providing more balance than others have done before, the article itself is quite unbalanced and leading. It promises a look at the sex modding scene, in general, but is really about the rape mods, whether or not people should be concerned, and wondering who should be in charge of 'regulating' some content that may 'deeply upset' people who don't use it. Now, now. Don't call your congressman just yet.

 

Except it isn't written for a broad audience, and hasn't been for years. This was a political pander piece, concern trolling at it's finest. All you have to do is count the number of subjective adjectives applied.

 

 

 

factual and balanced

 

'Games journalism'  hasn't been this since about the year 2000, and there was clear and open payola and pandering even before then. PCGamer  threw all in during #gamergate and expecting an objective take from the same site that declared all Marvel games as "inherently sexist" is naivety at best. 

 

The only reason the site didn't get excoriated from hell to breakfast is the author in question is one of two remaining on the site that isn't a frothing at the mouth ""progressive"" politicist, and that is what the rest of writing stable is.

 

Not to say that something like Namira's Goat or Defeat isn't completely fucking polarized from premise to execution, because it sure as hell is, but there is no attempt other than the (mod) author's own word to say so, and that is quite telling, because pieces like this usually also have mod user opinions as a pastiche and framing device, and that is completely absent here, for a reason. 

 

The first and last paragraphs of the article make no bones about even attempting objectivity.

[squares]

Saw it on reddit. Not my buisness, but bringing such publicity to a controversial communities never leads to a good things. Hope it won't affect LL in a bad way.

[Vintovka98]

I got a feeling that this was an article written with an ulterior motive as if we are being observed in a psychology study on fantasy rape, something akin to that ask-a-rapist thread on reddit a while back. I'm aware that these two things are very different opposites, but I'm not sure if this gaming journalist feels the same. Or maybe this is a point-and-laugh thing instead of an honest probing done in good faith. He praises Enderal as an "amazing project" then immediately goes but, LL makes triggering mods, as if we're the bad guys making the opposite of "amazing". I'm sure he edited this exactly to his liking since he had 6 months to write this and do research, which makes the subjective tone of the writing more worrying. The fact that so much subjectivity is present in the text makes this whole write-up very agenda-driven to me. A sensationalist piece of work meant to capture the public's interest in the "other".

 

Currently, the featured comment praise this as "a carefully and heavily researched article", while I agree somewhat, I also think this should have been more carefully edited so as to not cloud journalistic objectivity with feelings.

 

I would personally love to see a piece on the social commentary to be made stemming from the prevalence of sexy mods on Nexus and a conclusion made with respect to Nexus's user demographic written by this guy. It seems right up his alley.

 

Also, I hope this thread is not veering toward getting locked.

[visby]

There is some weird idea in the general public that what someone finds as a "turn on" is in some way an optional selection.

 

I for one was not handed a clip board with a list of things to be my "turn ons" and to check the ones I wanted. I am there for left with the involuntary framework of what my sub conscious mind finds arousing.

 

Specifically for me that is rape fantasy (of me) and unintentional public nudity (again of me).

 

Both of which have huge practical downside for real life enactment. I therefor am hugely grateful to this community for providing a virtual outlet. 

 

I don't care what some puffed up puff piece says, there are good things happening here.

Exactly why can't people understand that erotica does not equal sex?

[Storms of Superior]

The so called "psychology" likely is a part of how someone here may like to behave, but folks like that- I can't see them existing in significant numbers.

 

The question that should be asked is, "Why use a rape mod at all?"

 

The way I would answer that question is one of purely logical process; "If such  scenarios of battle were even played out, I would expect, entirely, for this to be among the possible consequences. If speaking of rape in cases of prostitution, do you really think that that doesn't actually happen? Of course it does. What about vampire sex? As Ashal alluded to that, he mentioned that it is, in some form, to be considered to be rape; think of it in terms of usurpation of another person's will to take something that doesn't belong to the taker. What about sex slavery? That is the same as vampire sex, except that sex slavery is real, and vampires aren't. All of these things share a common denominator: they are real world issues.

 

What the vast majority of us do is take real world issues and put them into ours games. It really is that simple."

[zzz72w3r]

A better article would be "Skyrim mods are awesome because I can kill people in more creative ways including children but the existence of sex mods sicken me." 

 

EDIT:

I just did a quick check.  Sexlab has 2.7 million DL vs. ~80,000 members.  Considering the number of versions SL has released over the years that sounds reasonable.  On Nexusmod, the two killable children mods have over 300,000 "unique" DL (not total DL of various versions) and over 25,000 endorsements.  If I were the editor that would be the article I want my reporters to write.  That is if I work at a real journalist outfit. 

[Captain Cobra]

0/10 article needs some saucy pics of beast ladies.

[peculiaris]

Dude like, they didn't even install the mods... 0/10 - IGN.

 

 

Seriously though it sounds like someone found out that he uses mods from Loverslab then called him a rapist and this is his excuse.

[Ashal]

The site doesn't have ~80,000. I have no idea where they got that number. The exact number at the time of me writing this is 1,583,537 registered users.
 
Edit: they likely got the 80,000 from the member directory page, http://www.loverslab.com/members which has about that many PAGES of members, with 20 members per page. So they likely confused the number of pages for the number of users.