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The PC Gamer article on LL

Vintovka98

By Vintovka98,
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Stahlvormund101

Stahlvormund101

Posted
Posted

I read some comments on pcgamer and find my favorite - "I just think that murder is ok. To me raping is a much worse crime."

 

Well, there is death penalty but no rape penalty yet.

Unless ofc you count neglect of prison security and their homosexual sub-societies as a way of punishment for weak and handsome inmates sanctioned by the state.

 

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SkyAddiction

SkyAddiction

Posted
Posted

I found it to be a fairly well-written article, save the final paragraph which reads like a boilerplate, "I'm not sure how I want to close this, so I'll tack on a platitude about regulation."

 

The author clearly did some research, sought out both modders and experts, and managed to keep it all rather neutral. Any attempt to further broaden the scope of the article would've inevitably resulted in a corresponding inflation of said article. Not only does the author then risk losing his purpose and flow, but the potential to clash with deadlines becomes very real.

 

Is it a comprehensive picture of LL? No, of course not. Is it biased? No. Is a personalized style perhaps a poor means by which one should address a potentially explosive topic? Perhaps. Clearly there exists a danger that readers will (and clearly did) evaluate the article through the lens of their own personal bias, but then purely objective writing all but demands exhaustive coverage and quite a lot of composition time.

 

It could have been sensationalism defined, but the author maintained relative objectivity. That's to be applauded in our brave new world of divisive click-bait titles and shoddily researched articles.

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Jazzman

Jazzman

Posted
Posted

LL is still around...so I guess the pitchforks and torches crowd haven't found us yet or deem LL "a danger to the masses"...that in itself is good news...

Oh, all other forums are still around as well. It's just they ain't the ones they were before anymore... they made a classic 180, almost overnight. The backdoor mechanism used to crush our freedoms is called sponsorship, "my new friends" with certain dislikes that are to be taken into account, as one known site owner once called it. What follows such a friendly takeover are the purge and the exodus. To block possible Greek gifts in the future we might think about a tiny annual fee for the membership and thus the right to download kinky stuff.

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Imatterial

Imatterial

Posted
Posted

What I find weird about the author's dislike of Defeat is basically that;

 

Murder/assassination, theft and burglary, assault and intimidation and generally just hacking to pieces anyone who stands in your way are all things that make up the core of the Skyrim basegame, through general adventuring or the Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood questlines.

 

Yet the author only complains about how 'Given the incredibly damaging consequences of real world sexual violence, I was troubled by the idea of players acting it out' with Sexlab Defeat?!? So experiencing a murder or being assaulted or threatened for money, these are not incredibly damaging in real life? I don't think the author really thought about this, they just had a kneejerk reaction and decided anyone with a 'rape fantasy' = evil rapist in waiting ready to triggered by lewd mods, but anyone with a 'disembowel bandits by the hundreds' fantasy = mentally healthy and upstanding citizen.

 

This is basically the 'videogames make kids violent' argument, but now with more double-think.

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D_ManXX2

D_ManXX2

Posted
Posted

What I find weird about the author's dislike of Defeat is basically that;

 

Murder/assassination, theft and burglary, assault and intimidation and generally just hacking to pieces anyone who stands in your way are all things that make up the core of the Skyrim basegame, through general adventuring or the Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood questlines.

 

Yet the author only complains about how 'Given the incredibly damaging consequences of real world sexual violence, I was troubled by the idea of players acting it out' with Sexlab Defeat?!? So experiencing a murder or being assaulted or threatened for money, these are not incredibly damaging in real life? I don't think the author really thought about this, they just had a kneejerk reaction and decided anyone with a 'rape fantasy' = evil rapist in waiting ready to triggered by lewd mods, but anyone with a 'disembowel bandits by the hundreds' fantasy = mentally healthy and upstanding citizen.

 

This is basically the 'videogames make kids violent' argument, but now with more double-think.

 

What i find more damaging are parents neglecting their kids. if the parent gave adult game to there kids they are not good parents to begin with. and these are the same parents that later blame the game even though they are to blame themselfs.

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zzz72w3r

zzz72w3r

Posted
Posted

 

What I find weird about the author's dislike of Defeat is basically that;

 

Murder/assassination, theft and burglary, assault and intimidation and generally just hacking to pieces anyone who stands in your way are all things that make up the core of the Skyrim basegame, through general adventuring or the Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood questlines.

 

Yet the author only complains about how 'Given the incredibly damaging consequences of real world sexual violence, I was troubled by the idea of players acting it out' with Sexlab Defeat?!? So experiencing a murder or being assaulted or threatened for money, these are not incredibly damaging in real life? I don't think the author really thought about this, they just had a kneejerk reaction and decided anyone with a 'rape fantasy' = evil rapist in waiting ready to triggered by lewd mods, but anyone with a 'disembowel bandits by the hundreds' fantasy = mentally healthy and upstanding citizen.

 

This is basically the 'videogames make kids violent' argument, but now with more double-think.

 

What i find more damaging are parents neglecting their kids. if the parent gave adult game to there kids they are not good parents to begin with. and these are the same parents that later blame the game even though they are to blame themselfs.

 

 

In the US, we have had this outcry 30+ years ago from the political right when depiction of violence got more and more prevalent in mass media.  It peaked around the time of the original DOOM.  Eventually the debate died or rather disappeared as the country not only did not get burn to the ground public safety actually has steadily improved.  In another word, people really are smart enough to know the difference between reality and fantasy.

 

It's ironic that it's the political left now who are out in the witch hunt.  Wait, am I triggering anyone by using the word "witch"?

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Tirloque

Tirloque

Posted
Posted

I did read the article ; overall it does not judge anything, but merely gives information about how virtual sex games do not seem to worsen (and might even improve in case of rapists) IRL sex or IRL violence inclinations.

 

It does as well insists on LL community main trait, which is the « no kink shaming », everyone learning to respect the sexual fantasies or orientation of others (regardless of how strange they may seem to some, everyone has it's differences).

 

Those points are actually largely in favor or LL, and from that point of view the article differs from the usual video-game bashing general sites do commit sometimes. Now it asks the question of regulation of the web's free creative activities... Which is by definition only regulated by itself, and shouldn't be any different from my point of view. :)

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endersgame

endersgame

Posted
Posted

 

 

What I find weird about the author's dislike of Defeat is basically that;

 

Murder/assassination, theft and burglary, assault and intimidation and generally just hacking to pieces anyone who stands in your way are all things that make up the core of the Skyrim basegame, through general adventuring or the Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood questlines.

 

Yet the author only complains about how 'Given the incredibly damaging consequences of real world sexual violence, I was troubled by the idea of players acting it out' with Sexlab Defeat?!? So experiencing a murder or being assaulted or threatened for money, these are not incredibly damaging in real life? I don't think the author really thought about this, they just had a kneejerk reaction and decided anyone with a 'rape fantasy' = evil rapist in waiting ready to triggered by lewd mods, but anyone with a 'disembowel bandits by the hundreds' fantasy = mentally healthy and upstanding citizen.

 

This is basically the 'videogames make kids violent' argument, but now with more double-think.

 

What i find more damaging are parents neglecting their kids. if the parent gave adult game to there kids they are not good parents to begin with. and these are the same parents that later blame the game even though they are to blame themselfs.

 

 

In the US, we have had this outcry 30+ years ago from the political right when depiction of violence got more and more prevalent in mass media.  It peaked around the time of the original DOOM.  Eventually the debate died or rather disappeared as the country not only did not get burn to the ground public safety actually has steadily improved.  In another word, people really are smart enough to know the difference between reality and fantasy.

 

It's ironic that it's the political left now who are out in the witch hunt.  Wait, am I triggering anyone by using the word "witch"?

 

 

Horseshoe theory, my friend, horseshoe theory.

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SnowieScrolls

SnowieScrolls

Posted
Posted

I read the article, and agree that it was relatively neutral until the last paragraph. 

 

Personally, I'm just posting to thank all of you here at LL. If you had told me two years ago that I would be playing Skyrim loaded with bondage, rape, slavery, and minor beastiality, I would have called you a liar and swore never to be interested in anything like that. But now? I enjoy playing "Sexrim" as the boyfriend and I call it, have experimented with sex mods for other games, and have in general been opened to a whole world of new fantasies, curiosities, and pleasure. My relationship with my boyfriend is better too, because we can really be open and honest with each other about new things to try (sorry if that was a bit TMI). Mostly I want to thank everyone at LL for being a positive and supportive community, welcoming everyone and anyone. :) 

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morgananinuala

morgananinuala

Posted
Posted

 

 

Also the haters in the comments, but that's 100% expected.

 

Bud Hodson • 2 hours ago

 

Most of these modders are horny teenagers that have no idea of what a real woman looks like. I'm sure there are older ones also. Both would be scared to death if a woman even approached them.

 

Lycella • an hour ago

 

Bud Hodson thinks a real woman is the blow up doll in his cupboard.

xD

Well, I'D fucking be scared to death if a blow-up doll got up and approached me.

 

Inanimate objects should stay inanimate.

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  • 1 month later...
enderdracolich

enderdracolich

Posted
Posted

I find it "troubling" that the author of the piece finds it "troubling" that non-illegal content is not voluntarily censored. Rape mods are NOT something I personally use or care about, but they are not illegal and it's nobody's right to shame those who do. The author may have been respectful when he did the interviews, but the article itself has a clear bias. "Troubling" and "disturbing" are not the terms used by an impartial journalist or researcher. They are the words of a fear-monger, issuing moral condemnation and calling for censorship. The point of the article was clearly to expose these "disturbing" and "troubling" practices to the rest of society, so that the users of this site will be properly ostracized, criticized, ridiculed, and perhaps even punished for having different ideas about sexuality and video games.

 

"The freedom of the internet already provides many ways to explore these ideas, and maybe mods are just another expression of the desire to do so. But whether some of these mods are even legal, the cultural implications and psychological impact they have, and who should be responsible for regulating them are all questions we should be considering carefully." 

 

I think this paragraph makes the author's intent quite clear. The author believes that video games, specifically, should be exempt from freedom of expression. The author believes that people who are interested in portraying acts of sexual violence should be forced by law to use another medium besides gaming to portray those acts. This suggests he believes that sexual crimes are somehow worse than all other forms of crime, and that the author believes that gaming is different from all other forms of creative human expression. The author wants the specific combination of gaming + depictions of sexual violence to be banned and/or regulated. This indicates a clear bias by the author against sexual crime (as opposed to other violent crime) and against gaming (as opposed to other forms of expression). The author does not have an issue with paintings, books, or music portraying rape. The author does not have an issue with games portraying acts of brutal nonsexual torture or murder. The author has a clear and strong bias against gamers, gaming, and against the depiction of sexual crimes in that medium. These is illogical and nonsensical, and gives privilege to the users and creators of other forms of media, and to gamers who prefer to simulate robbery, murder, and other nonsexual crimes. 

 

If I am allowed to paint (or view) a picture of rape, write (or listen to) a song about rape, make (or watch) a film about rape, and play (or make) games about torturing people, eating people, murdering people, and robbing people, then ALL LOGIC says I should be able to play (or make) games about raping people. 

 

TLDr, I think this is just a dumb hit piece against a niche group of people the author dislikes. It is not calling for a fair, if silly and nonsensical, banning of all rape depictions in all media; ONLY for the ban of rape in gaming. It is not calling for a fair, if silly and nonsensical, banning of all depiction of violence in gaming; ONLY the banning of rape depictions. IMO, if something is bad to show in games, it is bad to show ANYWHERE, and if you ban showing one bad thing in games, you should ban showing ALL bad things in games. If you are being selective with your censorship, it is because you are a hypocrite looking to pick on other people who have different, but not worse, preferences than you do. 

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Zor2k13

Zor2k13

Posted
Posted

The author works for a gaming site so they talk about things related to gaming.

 

The only troubling things for me (that I know of) are pedo, gore, really gross shit and incest. Porn and kink kinda go together and they are used quite a lot here which is fine. People can make all the laws they want to but if the majority of humans don't want to stop doing something there is no law or guberment capable of stopping them. People have to sincerely want to stop thinking about or being interested in pedo gore incest really gross shit etc. before it will really go away. History shows that will not be the case though as people never change so these bad extreme things will always be around.

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  • 1 month later...
ISNAN

ISNAN

Posted
Posted

I stopped caring what people think a long time ago. We all have opinions about certain things and most of the time those opinions are not grounded in anything concrete because there are biases that override normal rationale. It's surprising that a large majority of the population doesn't use or practice mindfulness or bother to understand the complexity of the subject they are trying to have an opinion about. They are unaware about their own biases which forms their opinions. Even professionals that we look up to give us answers are subject to wrong outcomes simply because they are unaware of the complexity involved. You can ask a scientist what they think about sex mods, but unless they actually play and mod these things, they will NEVER have a rational opinion about it. All they can tell you is how a sex mod might relate to their field of study. They might know how to use logic to understand it better, but if they are not practicing mindfulness, then their biases get in the way. Plus you have other variables involved in that opinion. Things like reputation and money. They personally may not care about sex mods, but what are their colleagues going to think if they endorse it? That is why I don't put that much stock into what a person says. 

 

Understanding complexity is really how a person gets to a sound opinion. Let's take a $10 watch for example. To someone who has no idea about the numerous tiny gears inside, and how all that works, will value the watch at whatever they pay for it. But to someone who actually understands the complexity, they will put a much bigger value on it and possibly look at that $10 price tag as being a steal. A modern day example would be programming. A lot of programmers get underpaid simply because the public is unaware of the complexity involved. They are the ones buying the product. They will scoff at a $60 price tag on a game, but to someone who actually knows how to code, will look at it as being reasonable if not cheap for what they are getting. 

 

How does all this translate into this PC article? Well, it's about people having opinions about sexual content who don't understand it because they don't view sex in the same way as someone who does. Sex mods are just a modern day form of a Hustler magazine. The next form will be virtual sex. Rinse and repeat. We, as humans, will ALWAYS make sexual based content simply because that is the number one primary drive of humanity. There are currently 196 countries in the world and we are all vastly different in a lot of ways. So much so that If you were to place someone from the U.S. into a place like Lesotho, (South Africa), they would view it as a totally different world. As many differences as we have in every country, there is one underlying thing we ALL do in common, and that is to reproduce and have families to further our gene pool. You can't reproduce without sex. It's a part of human nature and it has evolved into a much more complex topic because we have let freedom of expression be the driver. That is why we have taboos to begin with. One person saw sex in one way and made a painting. Then someone views that painting, which caused them to view it in other way. They then go out and make a nude sculpture depicting another aspect of it. Then someone else goes out and depicts it in their own way, which might be more graphic. Fast forward through history to where we see porn magazines, then videos, and eventually SEX MODS.

 

We don't make laws pertaining to sex because of the act itself. It has more to do with the potential damage it may cause. Sex mods don't cause anyone damage. If anything, it's therapeutic because it lets people release their impulses in a safe medium. The last thing we want to do is ban it because not only does it erode freedom of expression, it may cause a person to release that bottled up impulse to the point where they actually go out and break these laws. 

 

All in all, people that are opposed to it really truly need to dig deep within themselves to find out what their issue is with it, instead of trying to impose their adhoc opinion about it. Because it's a form of expression that will never be 100% gone. It might be banned for centuries, but if the history books tell us anything, it will resurface eventually. Just like the Greeks to the dark ages to where we are now.

 

 

 

 

 

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carnival

carnival

Posted
Posted

Wasn't going to originally speak on this topic but some of the replies were so well moderated and articulated I wanted to spin my own. Concerning the article the info in the article is mostly factual however the opinion attached to it is just that, an opinion. I don't find it particularity upsetting and definitely not surprising, but that's just my opinion. :angel:

 

Were i do take issue is where it suggests that opinions which differ from a perceived norm should be "regulated" which from the underlying tone is veiled censorship. On the topic of regulation I don't necessarily think of regulation as a bad thing (no heavy metals in drinking water, no inciting violence against another) however censorship and regulation are not mutually inclusive. Overall the piece just seems like it was made to get clicks and stir up comment sections to increase site traffic. Eh, it's whatever.

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isahale

isahale

Posted
Posted

Look like it or not American culture is very unconcerned by depictions of extreme violence while quite bothered by fairly mild depictions of even "normal" sexuality considering that lens I'd say the story is more fair than we could really expect on any given day.

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BCarmine198

BCarmine198

Posted
Posted

 

The Ryzen would be a serious contender if you even think you might want to go SLI/xFire at some point. Even if not, the processor choice is questionable, at least at this price point. 
(I generally don't recommend multi-gpu. Unless you enjoy fiddling with stuff a lot) 

 

 

I think you might be in the wrong topic Josh. 

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