The PC Gamer article on LL

[Musje]

 

Making wars and murder to be a common appearance in a video game, while strongly criticizing sexual content, is like a justification of the ultimate crime (in christian believe).

 

 

Same in movies, as Jack Nicholson complained years ago: "Show a tit, it's an X-rating. Hack it off with a sword: PG-13"

 

[Cema]

Well, "controlling", "checking", "censoring" stuff on the internet has been a trend lately. Everybody wants to have his little piece of "I'm consoring this and I feel powerful"

 

Not really interesting ...

[27X]

 

 

 

Multiple times he raises the question whether fantasies about rape or fantasy depiction of rape has an impact on RL behaviour and several times he quotes an authority that shatters this premise, most impressingly the GTA V part, but he goes over it and doesnt conclude that according to current scientific research, there is no harm maybe even benefit about websites like LL for rape awareness, understanding and empathy, but ends with a statement that basically asks for policing and monitoring beyond what already is core for LL.

 

 

I do think that he had no choice but do conclude with that mindset. After all, PC Gamer is a mainstream media outlet and as such you can't go too harshly against what the public thinks or wants you to think. According to the scientists there are many people, both men and women who indulge in rape fantasies yet we all know that you can't really admit that in the public without committing social suicide, and that's just for your personal social circle like friends and family. Imagine how the backlash would be if you fathered an article for the general public to see where you at least don't pretend to be against these taboos.

 

 

 

You might want to read the site's articles on Conan Exiles before making abjectly incorrect assumptions, because they are the tonal opposite of this "mainstream" piece.

[Vintovka98]

The site doesn't have ~80,000. I have no idea where they got that number. The exact number at the time of me writing this is 1,583,537 registered users.

 

Edit: they likely got the 80,000 from the member directory page, http://www.loverslab.com/members which has about that many PAGES of members, with 20 members per page. So they likely confused the number of pages for the number of users.

 

At least our user base is more properly accounted for, now that he changed the figure from 80,000 to 1.5 million.

[Chaos63]

 

we are all making a fuss of this thing when clearly it has happened before...and it seems like Ashal and co. isn't fazed about it...why should we?

 

It's just people over-analyzing because they got nothing better to do. Kinda like all those discussions on half empty and half full glasses. Just drink the thing and move the fuck along with your day.

[MadMansGun]

Kinda like all those discussions on half empty and half full glasses.

they are all wrong, the glass is bigger than it needs to be.

 

[Abyssal Scholar]

"I was like, fine, I'll spend the next month watching bears give oral sex to my character so I can finish this feature."

- Thanks, from all the monsters out here.

[flutie]

 

Kinda like all those discussions on half empty and half full glasses.

they are all wrong, the glass is bigger than it needs to be.

 

 

a mole hill will be made into a moutain

[Jazzman]

OK. Raise your hand if you think that the mainstream internet likes our freedoms here. Someone clearly has a wicked sense of humor...

[flutie]

OK. Raise your hand if you think that the mainstream internet likes our freedoms here. Someone clearly has a wicked sense of humor...

i raise my hand, they hate our freedoms

might be girl on dog, might be MAN ON WOMEN

or just could be loverslab is  RELEVENT

[lordgdavid]

 People are judgemental pricks so what I find disturbing is any article on LL. No matter what scientist told the writer the tone was negative, or at least felt that way. The more people know about sites like this the bigger the chance someone will try and ruin it.

[tobleron]

who even reads these type of articles and why?..i mean apart from bloggers,"journalists" etc...and is the approval of that type of readers really that important?

 

and yay for MadMansGun quote,,best reason for following this topic so far

[arpaschad]

lol...I can't wait for other "videogame Journalists" from other magazines and sites like Game Informer,  Kotaku, Sankaku etc.to have a piece of the action...though I think the latter two mentioned would be more "lenient" in covering "disturbing 3rd party videogame content"...

 

"Hey Jason, you want a good article for your magazine?"

 

"Oh no please not another Eve Online community story...and don't get me started on Overwatch and other MOBA's..."

 

"Nah dude this one is quite good...disturbing actually...just hear me out!"

 

"You have 2 minutes..."

 

"Well it's about people putting sex mods in their games..."

 

"Well that's new...say no more!!"

 

easy hits and views and clickbaits...

[windu190]

 

Amusingly LL itself can become all holier-than-thou the second someone mentions loli...

Mostly because we like not being in severe legal trouble.

 

Transportation of pornographic materials is technically illegal in the US. But to date, only in cases involving child porn has this ever been enforced, and those cases can and have extended to purely fictional instances. Considering how much other vile shit we host, the only sensible reason to make one niche against the rules is because of the legal ramifications and not at all to do with some misguided sense of morality.

 

 

So that's the reason, interesting. 

I always wondered why virtual loli was forbidden, but virtual murder, rape, slavery, torture and blackmail was all totally fine. 

 

In skyrim, with LL mods, you can enter a house where a couple lives. Brutally murder the husband in front of his wife, trap his soul in one of your soulgems. Then enslave the wife, torture her until she breaks and becomes an obedient slave. Cut of her lower legs and lower arms and put a leash around her neck and keep her around as a pet. Then rape her every day. 

 

No law would stop you from doing this and no one would care, gruesome stuff like this happens all the time in games and movies. 

 

Have a scantly clad 15 year old in your video game.

 

Every judge/jury would be all over you. 

 

Funny how the law works.

[Goubo]

Yeah well he quoted some of what I said not everything and probably not the most important but for the most part I don't mind.

 

I think the article was quite well written and funny at the beginning and at least he emphasised pretty well the distinction fiction/reality but really not a fan of the conclusion though as I replied to him (he did not respond and probably never will )

I can get why he wrote it that way because the guy seems to still be disturbed and/or don't understand some of the themes of the mods on this site and also probably because he has to be PC at the end of the day... ^^

but it implies that someone should maybe begin to regulate this kind of modding and thus applying some kind of censorship which is never the solution (and there is no problems to solve in here anyway).

 

"that can deeply upset or concern many people" made me giggle, all of this shit is fictionnal and should not have any psychological impact whatsoever even on weak minds so why should people be upset and even concerned about a sex mod community no matter the theme in the first place?

 

Personnaly I'm so detached from my pervy modding stuff and it dosen't impact my real life whatsoever in any way so I really don't get this view on the subject... it's not like there are more important and REAL and actual problems that destroy actual lives (to speak about internet only) that people should be concerned about instead...

 

But hey I'm probably overracting and reading too much into it, all in all it's probably a good thing for the site not that it needs it anyway.

[Ashkandii]

If the mods allowed here were illegal then you imagine they wouldn't be so easily accessible, This is all just pure fantasy nothing more. 

[Cezul]

You know, when they report on stuff like this and try to warn people about this and that, it kinda has the exact opposite effect.

I remember when RapeLay made big news here in the US, and when I heard about it I though it was kinda cool ( the idea of an erotic fantasy video game )
A year or so later I then heard about a ' 4chan ' and would you believe that was the coolest fucking place in existence? 

... And then of course a thread on /v/ introduced me to LL during the Oblivion glory days. 

TL;DR Always do the exact opposite of what normies and mass media tells you

[BruceWayne]

Yeah well he quoted some of what I said not everything and probably not the most important but for the most part I don't mind.

 

I think the article was quite well written and funny at the beginning and at least he emphasised pretty well the distinction fiction/reality but really not a fan of the conclusion though as I replied to him (he did not respond and probably never will )

I can get why he wrote it that way because the guy seems to still be disturbed and/or don't understand some of the themes of the mods on this site and also probably because he has to be PC at the end of the day... ^^

but it implies that someone should maybe begin to regulate this kind of modding and thus applying some kind of censorship which is never the solution (and there is no problems to solve in here anyway).

 

"that can deeply upset or concern many people" made me giggle, all of this shit is fictionnal and should not have any psychological impact whatsoever even on weak minds so why should people be upset and even concerned about a sex mod community no matter the theme in the first place?

 

Personnaly I'm so detached from my pervy modding stuff and it dosen't impact my real life whatsoever in any way so I really don't get this view on the subject... it's not like there are more important and REAL and actual problems that destroy actual lives (to speak about internet only) that people should be concerned about instead...

 

But hey I'm probably overracting and reading too much into it, all in all it's probably a good thing for the site not that it needs it anyway.

 

I don't mean to "snipe" you explicitly with this post, but I've read some other posts going in the same direction and feel compelled to say something on the matter.

 

The key difference between you and him is that he writes his actual real name under that article while you are not. Imagine all your posts and mods on LL having your real name beside it! I can only speak for myself, but I'm not sure if I would be so "noble" IRL and defend someone else's right to jack off to virtual beast rape porn, if my actual name would stand right next to my post. 

 

As for the point of "There are far more important matters in this world", I agree. Though ultimately, I don't blame PC Gamer or any other outlet to cover LL, as we are a major part of the modding community, if not the gaming community. 1.5 million members + the number of active members at any given time are something some other, perceived much bigger sites, can only dream about.

 

To add on to that (and to use my anonymity), if he's actually "disturbed" by the content that is available here, he hasn't been around the internet for too long. There is far more disturbing content out there, both real and virtual, which makes the stuff we have here seem tame and ultimately benign adult entertainment in comparison. I think an article about the stuff we've removed or haven't allowed on here over the years would be far more disturbing.

 

In the end, I think we draw our line in the sand quite clearly, but we also understand that this line might look different for every individual. We certainly don't force anyone to use our content and we actively discourage people to use this content, if they give us any reason to believe that they do not meet the legal requirements to do so. 

[tobleron]

it would b "fair play" in regards to him using his real name ,if he did not end the article the way he did ,with a type of expectation for some regulating authority and the use of "we"..who are those we-ppl?

  Btw the use of the same word by a moderator of this site makes more sense in the regulating aspect

[manchuligans]

I was mostly neutral towards the article until the last few lines:

 

"Mods like Defeat, and the players who use them, are only one part of LoversLab—but they also represent a dilemma that stems from having the free and open communities we often celebrate as PC gamers. Modding has always been seen as a vibrant expression of creativity, a kind of dialogue between gamers and developers that gives rise to amazing projects like the Enderal, essentially a new game built inside of Skyrim. But mods also enable creators and players to explore interests and taboos that can deeply upset or concern many people.

The freedom of the internet already provides many ways to explore these ideas, and maybe mods are just another expression of the desire to do so. But whether some of these mods are even legal, the cultural implications and psychological impact they have, and who should be responsible for regulating them are all questions we should be considering carefully."

 

 

 

Yes, the last part is the poison pill.

 

Defeat, the people who use it, and anything else on LL doesn't represent any dilemma at all.  People like the author of the article are creating the problem of "there's a free an open community that made nice safe Enderal, but oh no, other people made things some people don't like!"

 

Carry me to my fainting couch.

 

The only people who create problems like this are the moral busybodies who get off on being on their high horse and scolding their perceived moral lessers.  They won't be satisfied until everyone is nodding along with all their moralistic garbage, and they don't hesitate to do the most vicious things to get their way, online and in real life.

 

All the mods are legal, the cultural and psychological impacts are negligible (or we'd all be mass murderers), and no one should be responsible for regulating them, because no one has the right to regulate them, nor should they.

 

The last line is the worst.  It is meant to create the impression in the reader's mind that:

 

*  Sex mods may be illegal.

 

*  Sex mods have cultural and psychological impacts.

 

*  Someone should be regulating them.

 

 

Notice how the author didn't ask the reader if mods should be regulated at all.  He assumes that someone should be regulating personally owned software that people have on a private age restricted board and on their own private computers.  His only question is who should be doing the regulating.

 

The next steps are:

 

*  Portray creators and users as people who are harming others through the cultural and psychological impacts of the mods they make or use (it's always helpful to have an indignant social media mob on your side).

 

*  Investigate sites and individuals to determine if their mods are legal, or more likely "hurtful" in some way.

 

*  Force them to submit to some kind of regulatory scheme run by moralistic busybodies called "the community", for your own good of course, and the good of all the fragile duckies who can't stand the sight of a boob or computer game characters reenacting how babies are made.

 

 

That's what seemingly benign articles like this lead to, imo.

 

 

A few weeks ago I read a community thread on steam's Mount & Blade community page, and there was an argument about what steam or Taleworlds was doing to regulate so-called "hate speech" on Mount & Blade multiplayer servers.  I started sneezing from all the lint coming off all the sock puppets in that thread.  All the posters saying things like "Hate speech is not free speech" and so on totally ignored that Mount & Blade multiplayer servers are run by regular people.  Taleworlds can choose to moderate its own servers, but no one has the right to moderate a server set up by a private individual, except that individual.

 

They always start out so placatingly, talking about feelings and protecting the emotionally vulnerable, and then start with the accusations and the strife.  When everyone is pissed off, the placating voice comes out again, and proposes a speech code with a body "community leaders" to enforce it.  It's all about who can cry the loudest, that's how they get their way.  Laws, policies, privately doing your own thing, all that doesn't matter, it all about pointing to the weepy vulnerable victims until everyone bows and scrapes.

 

The only defense against these people is to stand up for your rights, condemn any shaming tactics they throw, mock them unmercifully, and keep right on doing what you're doing.

[D_ManXX2]

It will be better to regulate the media if they want to write another article make poll should modders work with an article.. After Trump started to shame them with fake news etc. i guess they need a new outlet to let there anger go. But really the media needs a major shackle on them. they are now getting out of hand.

 

btw before you guys did the inteview did he ever mentioned what the article was all about ?? or what his alterior motives where ?

[Goubo]

It will be better to regulate the media if they want to write another article make poll should modders work with an article.. After Trump started to shame them with fake news etc. i guess they need a new outlet to let there anger go. But really the media needs a major shackle on them. they are now getting out of hand.

 

btw before you guys did the inteview did he ever mentioned what the article was all about ?? or what his alterior motives where ?

Yeah the guy was honest about it, there wasn't any hidden motive as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

 

 

The key difference between you and him is that he writes his actual real name under that article while you are not. Imagine all your posts and mods on LL having your real name beside it! I can only speak for myself, but I'm not sure if I would be so "noble" IRL and defend someone else's right to jack off to virtual beast rape porn, if my actual name would stand right next to my post. 

 

As for the point of "There are far more important matters in this world", I agree. Though ultimately, I don't blame PC Gamer or any other outlet to cover LL, as we are a major part of the modding community, if not the gaming community. 1.5 million members + the number of active members at any given time are something some other, perceived much bigger sites, can only dream about.

 

To add on to that (and to use my anonymity), if he's actually "disturbed" by the content that is available here, he hasn't been around the internet for too long. There is far more disturbing content out there, both real and virtual, which makes the stuff we have here seem tame and ultimately benign adult entertainment in comparison. I think an article about the stuff we've removed or haven't allowed on here over the years would be far more disturbing.

 

In the end, I think we draw our line in the sand quite clearly, but we also understand that this line might look different for every individual. We certainly don't force anyone to use our content and we actively discourage people to use this content, if they give us any reason to believe that they do not meet the legal requirements to do so. 

 

Oh yes you are entirely right, I actually forgot to make a point about the fact that he speaks with his real name, for sure I wouldn't post any stuff like this especially my type of mods with my real name and/or face, don't have the need and the balls for it (or the foolishness?).

 

Publicly defending/endorse pervy stuff is one thing but wanting to censor it because it upsets people is another, that I would not be afraid to say in public, I would treat it with humor because I find it funny that many talented people went so far modding a game with advanced pervy stuff that blows away a large part of the "normal" modding content in term of quality.

 

Tough I'm not speaking about him when I say that it makes me laugh that some people might be upset over fictional stuff, it was just a remark I actually liked the article.

[Jazzman]

Yes, the last part is the poison pill.

...

The only defense against these people is to stand up for your rights, condemn any shaming tactics they throw, mock them unmercifully, and keep right on doing what you're doing.

Of course it is, it's hallowed hollow mainstream lamentation (the sour bread to feed the crowd), the usual strategy to paint all aberrations from self-imposed restrictions as black as possible just to justify their abysmal lust for power, total control and thus for violence (in the beloved virtual circus where the victim bleeds to death in front of the roaring mob).

 

Maybe you still believe in fair play on the internet, the clash of arguments in which the better one prevails, huh? Sorry but that's not the way it goes today. Instead, they'd isolate you from your supporters (if they ain't already hidden in a hole or terminated) and strike you down, literally pissing on your mutilated dead body, your virtual reputation (important not just for modders). Listen, out there you must play to their rules. If you can't - just don't go there. Here they have to play to our rules, keep that in mind and act accordingly, always. Over here we're hidden and they are exposed, and we only fight battles we can win, simply b/c they are fought on our terms and not on theirs. Heroism is idiotism in this case, a senseless self-sacrifice for their circus entertainment. Don't let that happen to you.

 

Welcome to the rebelution.

[zniachtl]

Doesn't look like bashing to me, the article.

 

Real Life consists of 4 types of "biologically, sexually active individual"

- Client

- Hooker

- Rapist

- Victim

 

So, with only 4 different types existing in REALITY - I honestly am surprised why anyone would make a funny face when seeing 50% (rapist/victim) in a virtual environment.

[Guest Katherlne]

I read some comments on pcgamer and find my favorite - "I just think that murder is ok. To me raping is a much worse crime."