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Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

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5 hours ago, infernus said:

What would be interesting is having gag-talk difficulty increase depending on the type of gag you're wearing. A Ring Gag would have a better chance of being successful in gag-talk and less chance of being misunderstood. The Ring Gag only keeps your mouth open but doesn't block it so NPCs should have an easier time trying to understand you.

 

Gag-talk with a Ball Gag would be a bit more difficult and have a higher chance of being misunderstood. The Ball Gag blocks your mouth so attempt at speech would be muffled some, the drool wouldn't help either.

 

The Panel Gag would be the worst, gag-talk would be difficult and you could easily be misunderstood. Your character's pathetic attempt at speech would be more muffled than the other two gags. The Panel Gag does force your character's mouth open, just look at the back-side of the panel in NifSkope and you'll see a tube that goes into the mouth. However if you manage to remove the plug on the Panel Gag then gag-difficulty would be reduced. Good luck trying to do that with your hands tied and it may not even cross an NPC's mind to remove it either.

Yeah I quoted myself.

 

If varying difficulties for the different gags was implemented then there could be opportunities for new gags to be added. An Inflatable Gag for example?

 

GTest1.png

GTest2.png

 

 

Got it to appear in-game too!

 

GTestInGame.png

 

 

This was just a hack-job in Outfit Studio but it does show what an Inflatable Gag could look like with existing assets.

 

If the gag was inflated it would be the most difficult to succeed in gag-talk if not impossible. Even when not inflated it would still be quite difficult, something large is shoved and locked into your character's mouth after all.

 

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i like the gag, you could even connect it to a catsuit, or a backpack (maybe that even adds waterbreathing :smile:)

 

about the dd4 difficulty

would it be possible to add a customised difficulty, where you can set your options in a ini-file or something like that?

 

because i liked to play with a high keybreak/lockjamm chance and the locked shield option, but i dont like the unlock cooldown.

 

personally i dont think the struggling/cutting mechanic adds anything to the framework as it is now (unless you like the 2 additional free unlocking option), but would it be possible, that struggling/cutting uses stamina/health. if you reach 0, it's possible that you faint and end up in more bondage, or maybe even in a slave auction. Maybe 0 means you will faint and if you still have stamina there is only a chance for that.

 

Is it possible, to add the lockpicking minigame to the lockpicking attempt? maybe you always have to start new after breaking a lockpick.

 

i think the new lock repair mechanic is lacking. You could add a lock repair kit (or maybe "Lube") which fixes a jammed lock. maybe you need to stand near a workbench/smithy.

 

Not sure if you chanced something, but i dont get lydia to remove my yoke's/armbinders even if i have a key. She only uses me, steals my key's or locks more items on me. Even if i always unlock her :dissapointed_relieved: . Maybe you could add a timer here, or apply the same keybreak mechanic you have yourself, but she might demand some "oral" service from you first.

 

Slagblah made a post in cursed loot, where he posted a picture where he showed a screen, where you could disable different mechanics (basicaly all timers and keybreak/lock jam). i think i would be pretty happy with that in dd4, because then i could play the way i like. Can you please allow it?

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5 hours ago, Kimy said:

Devious! I like it! :smiley:

Thanks!

 

It's not perfect since it was done in Outfit Studio, I think the tube and pump should be curved down a little but I can't do that in OS. Still I have created a strap (non-harness) version as well as Ebonite versions, even have the ground/inventory models done. They do work in-game (appear on the character) but I just replaced the models of other gags for testing, I didn't create new devices in the CK.

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I suddenly got a whole pile of errors like these in the middle of combat (my followers were fighting while the player character was waiting on the sidelines, on fire with armbinders on).

 

[02/06/2018 - 09:16:32PM] Error: Type mismatch for argument 2. 
stack:
	[Active effect 35 on  (00000014)].zadShoutStaggerEffect.OnActorAction() - "zadShoutStaggerEffect.psc" Line ?
[02/06/2018 - 09:16:33PM] [Zad]: UpdateControls()
[02/06/2018 - 09:16:39PM] Error: Mismatched types assigning to variable named "::temp3"
stack:
	[Active effect 35 on  (00000014)].zadShoutStaggerEffect.OnActorAction() - "zadShoutStaggerEffect.psc" Line ?
[02/06/2018 - 09:16:39PM] Error: Type mismatch for argument 2. 
stack:
	[Active effect 35 on  (00000014)].zadShoutStaggerEffect.OnActorAction() - "zadShoutStaggerEffect.psc" Line ?
[02/06/2018 - 09:16:41PM] [Zad]: UpdateControls()

At first glance, things seem to be checking out. zadShoutStaggerEffect.psc is calling 'libs.PlayThirdPersonAnimation(akActor, libs.AnimSwitchKeyword(akActor, "OutOfBreath"), 3, permitRestrictive=True) ' and argument 2 should be returning a string for "OutOfBreath"... so I am not sure what the script is whining about. 

 

Maybe someone more familiar with the code will figure out what is wrong.

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15 hours ago, donkeywho said:

Do you, or does anyone else, know if Devious Followers Beta works with AFT (Amazing Follower Tweaks?)?

i use AFT with it without problems and it works, others have reported that it works with EFF as well.

 

note:

 

it will block normal dialogues while you are in debt to follower (which will be most of the time), but does have a pause mod button (in MCM) that

will let all normal dialogue options appear.  it does have a known CTD issue with certain talking object (statue during Clavicus Vile daedric quest),

but this is easily worked around with the pause button (the mod maker knows of the issue and is trying to resolve it as he works on the mod).

the mod also has a reset mod button (in MCM of course) should you run into something that the pause button work around does not fix.

 

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6 hours ago, valcon767 said:

i use AFT with it without problems and it works, others have reported that it works with EFF as well.

 

note:

 

it will block normal dialogues while you are in debt to follower (which will be most of the time), but does have a pause mod button (in MCM) that

will let all normal dialogue options appear.  it does have a known CTD issue with certain talking object (statue during Clavicus Vile daedric quest),

but this is easily worked around with the pause button (the mod maker knows of the issue and is trying to resolve it as he works on the mod).

the mod also has a reset mod button (in MCM of course) should you run into something that the pause button work around does not fix.

 

Thanks

 

That's very helpful

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Just some thoughts about escape from devices i thought i write down.

I think someone should not be able to unlock an Armbinder by yourself (maybe not be unlocked anyway, as they are normaly no locks on armbinders :smile: )

So you need help by someone like you do for Yokes . You could be able to struggle out of it if lucky, (but normaly not if doublecrossed over the chest).

It makes your escape depend on someones mercy. I know it was there in the previous version and when your talkskill was high enough,

you got out if it to easy. But at least you needed someones help.

Maybe the mittens count in there as well. But need keys to release the buckles on your wrists (and no struggling).

Straightjacket seems for me same as armbinder, normaly no keys, but option to struggle.

Struggling sure exhausts and might be futile. Other restrains could get unlocked by keys and by yourself as long as hands are free.

Even Handcuffs, but maybe a little more difficult :smile:

I know its sure difficult to make different escape options for different devices, and this are just my thoughts.

Else i thank anyone working and helping on this great mod(s) that makes me still playing Skyrim with so much excitment ^^ regards

 

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1 hour ago, Hanshurtig11 said:

Just some thoughts about escape from devices i thought i write down.

I think someone should not be able to unlock an Armbinder by yourself (maybe not be unlocked anyway, as they are normaly no locks on armbinders :smile: )

So you need help by someone like you do for Yokes . You could be able to struggle out of it if lucky, (but normaly not if doublecrossed over the chest).

It makes your escape depend on someones mercy. I know it was there in the previous version and when your talkskill was high enough,

you got out if it to easy. But at least you needed someones help.

Maybe the mittens count in there as well. But need keys to release the buckles on your wrists (and no struggling).

Straightjacket seems for me same as armbinder, normaly no keys, but option to struggle.

Struggling sure exhausts and might be futile. Other restrains could get unlocked by keys and by yourself as long as hands are free.

Even Handcuffs, but maybe a little more difficult :smile:

I know its sure difficult to make different escape options for different devices, and this are just my thoughts.

Else i thank anyone working and helping on this great mod(s) that makes me still playing Skyrim with so much excitment ^^ regards

 

There are people who can escape these things with now but since there are no longer any player attributes to fall back to in determining how dexterous and such a person is giving them no option to escape standard items would turn Cursed Loot and other mods like it into quest killers as you would have to constantly seek someone to help release you. While some skills may help simulate this skill or knowledge there should be a way out without having to leave a dungeon repeatedly, it is the primary reason I disable yokes when I play as the chances of finding a key in the middle of a dungeon where you have cleared out everything behind you and have nothing but creatures ahead of you leaves little chance of escape and having to backtrack to a town or place to get it removed.

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1 hour ago, Veladarius said:

There are people who can escape these things with now but since there are no longer any player attributes to fall back to in determining how dexterous and such a person is giving them no option to escape standard items would turn Cursed Loot and other mods like it into quest killers as you would have to constantly seek someone to help release you. While some skills may help simulate this skill or knowledge there should be a way out without having to leave a dungeon repeatedly, it is the primary reason I disable yokes when I play as the chances of finding a key in the middle of a dungeon where you have cleared out everything behind you and have nothing but creatures ahead of you leaves little chance of escape and having to backtrack to a town or place to get it removed.

I see your point, thats why i have a nice, well equipped follower allways with me, that might help me secure my way deeper inside the cave and back home, even when unable to fight myself. And yes, sometimes these devices can be a little straitening, but arent they made for ? ;)  regards

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2 hours ago, Hanshurtig11 said:

I see your point, thats why i have a nice, well equipped follower allways with me, that might help me secure my way deeper inside the cave and back home, even when unable to fight myself. And yes, sometimes these devices can be a little straitening, but arent they made for ? ;)  regards

The only thing I use followers for is watching over the orphans I give a home to. I got tired of getting blasted with fireballs or ice storms while in melee combat with an enemy or plucking arrows out of my back or plucking arrows out of their back when I had a good shot lined up or them stepping in front of my sword. Generally I can wipe out everyone in a dungeon or camp without most any of them ever seeing me except the sometimes the leader.

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In case it is still helpful, I am also noticing some issues with Corsets:

 

[02/07/2018 - 04:57:43PM] [Zad]: Processing [Tight Corset]
[02/07/2018 - 04:57:43PM] Error: Mismatched types assigning to variable named "::temp5"
stack:
	[alias PlayerREF on quest zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadEventCorset.execute() - "zadEventCorset.psc" Line ?
	[alias PlayerREF on quest zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadEventCorset.Eval() - "zadBaseEvent.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.ProcessOneEvent() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.ProcessEvents() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.UpdateGlobalEvent() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.UpdateGlobalEvent() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.OnUpdateGameTime() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
[02/07/2018 - 04:57:43PM] Error: Type mismatch for argument 2. 
stack:
	[alias PlayerREF on quest zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadEventCorset.execute() - "zadEventCorset.psc" Line ?
	[alias PlayerREF on quest zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadEventCorset.Eval() - "zadBaseEvent.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.ProcessOneEvent() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.ProcessEvents() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.UpdateGlobalEvent() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.UpdateGlobalEvent() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.OnUpdateGameTime() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?

Here too, mismatched arguments and nothing I can see in the code that would throw that kind of error.

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On 2/4/2018 at 12:39 PM, Kimy said:

5. I will look at introducing different quality lockpicks (people have suggested this idea for keys, but I think it fits lockpick tools MUCH better, and will be easier to implement on top of it), so people might be able to escape their bindings with lockpicks offering them better chances than the standard vanilla lockpick. Modders will obviously be able to freely allow/disallow this feature for their custom items.

 

Perhaps the Skeleton Key could inadvertently become a useful artifact if it was put into this system.

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10 minutes ago, IronDusk33 said:

Perhaps the Skeleton Key could inadvertently become a useful artifact if it was put into this system.

I like the idea of Skeleton Key being useful for DD lore-wise.... but I hate the idea of 1) doing the thieves guild quests up the that point to get it and 2) not finishing the quest once I have it. :classic_undecided:

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Ok, so I decided to make the escape system I described a few pages back.

Spoiler
On 2/3/2018 at 2:26 PM, IronDusk33 said:

How 'bout this:

 

When the player tries to struggle out of or unlock a device, they have to have a certain amount of stamina. If they do, they'll start playing some animation (optional), and their stamina will start to drain. The rate is dependent on the device and how the player is trying to get out of it.

 

The player then has to press the WASD move keys to continue struggling. One of the movement keys will slow the rate at which their stamina drains, and which key that is changes after a few seconds. The player has to continue pressing and holding the right keys to keep their stamina from draining to quickly.

 

If the player manages to continue struggling for a certain amount of time without running out of stamina, the device is unlocked. If not, then they're out of stamina, and have to wait to recover before they can try again, not because of some magical timer, but because they are actually too tired in-game. It would also mean that getting out of devices would be harder when the player is exhausted through other realism mods.

 

If the player has the telekinesis spell, then they could also try to struggle out of the device while using magicka.

 

It's pretty much exactly as I described it there. It's currently slightly unpolished, not having an MCM menu or new animations, and I'm not skilled enough at the moment to make all the animations needed for a mod like this. However, since a lot of people were asking for an alternative escape mechanic, I thought some of you would like to test it out as is. If Kimy enjoys it she is welcome to implement some version of it into the base framework.

 

Here are the specifics of how it works:

Spoiler

After installing the mod, you now have a Struggle Hotkey, set to Right Control.

 

If you are restrained, but aren't wearing arm or hand binding restraints, holding that key pops up a menu on how you want to struggle out of your restraints.

-Brute Strength: Uses Stamina

-Telekinesis: Uses Magicka at a Higher Rate, requires the Telekinesis Spell

-Lockpicking: Uses Stamina and a Lockpick, struggling requires less time

-Skeleton Key: Uses Stamina, struggling requires much less time

 

After you select an option, keep holding the hotkey. Then either Stamina or Magicka will start to drain as your character struggles. (Currently she will use a place-holder vanilla animation.) Now, press and hold one of the WASD movement keys. Holding one of the movement keys will slow the rate your Stamina or Magicka drains, however the key you need to hold changes after a random interval. Holding more than one movement key at a time will cause your Stamina or Magicka to drain faster, so you can't just hold down all the keys.

 

Keep up this game of holding the Struggle Hotkey, and the correct movement key so that your character continues to struggle without running out of Stamina or Magicka. Eventually, she will slip out of one of her restraints, or will run out of Stamina or Magicka.

 

When either of those things happen, your character will become fatigued. Lowering her regen rates in the appropriate value. Each successive restraint escaped will lower her regen rates further, and cause the debuff to last for longer.

 

At the moment your character will escape out of restraints in a specific order:

-Hoods

-Blindfolds

-Gags

-Chastity Belts

-Chastity Bras

-Gloves

-Boots

-Corsets

-Harnesses

-Collars

-Leg Cuffs

-Arm Cuffs

-Suits and Dresses

 

You can change the difficulty of escape through the following command:

 

set _DDEA_GlobalDifficulty to XXX

 

Where XXX is some positive number. It's a simple multiple deciding how long it takes to escape a restraint. By default it's set to 1.0

 

To Uninstall use the following commands:

player.dispelallspells

stopquest _DDEA_Quest

 

Devious Devices - Escape Artistry Beta.rar

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@IronDusk33

 

Nice work i liked it alot! Also like the punishment time that consequent fails you basically have to live with it or find another way to get the device off. I would like an option to maybe set a hotkey if this was added because i think left ctrl would work better that way i can still move the player camera, and the struggle thing would pop up after like 2.5 sec of holding just so you don't accidentally bring it up. I don't know about anyone else but my sneak key is set to toggle not hold so it would be good ^^

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Item Suggestion: Bright Collar

This is a normal collar that has been enchanted to produce a light effect around the wearer, similar to the candle light effect but with devious intent (perhaps with different colors).  It's purpose is to insure that the slave is always visible and to draw even more attention to the fact that the wearer is a slave. It makes the slave very easy to spot in the event of an escape or theft attempt.

Devious effects:

     1. Sneaking is not possible (or very ineffective [or could actively attract enemies within a certain range]).

     2. Stealing is not possible (or chances greatly reduced).

     2. Greater chance to be further restrained/played with by talking to a NPC then when wearing a normal collar.

 

Why implement this?

One of the most popular builds is the stealth archer. So long as the player's hands are free, they can basically one shot everything regardless of what other restraints they are wearing. The bright collar would hopefully tone that back a bit and offer a soft counter to that tactic.  Also stealing keys from the key holder is very easy with a little bit of enchanting. This collar could prevent that until it is removed.  When used on a follower, it would make the follower much easier to track.

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On 2/7/2018 at 1:13 PM, Veladarius said:

The only thing I use followers for is watching over the orphans I give a home to. I got tired of getting blasted with fireballs or ice storms while in melee combat with an enemy or plucking arrows out of my back or plucking arrows out of their back when I had a good shot lined up or them stepping in front of my sword. Generally I can wipe out everyone in a dungeon or camp without most any of them ever seeing me except the sometimes the leader.

   I personally agree with you, followers Are so fricking stupid, and I don't care how well they are made they are always in the way, or doing something stupid.

 

I mean i made some pretty good ones for Morrowind, and I attempted taglady in Oblivion porting most of my command's and scripting, but the Follower in Oblivion was always treated like a Prize water Mellon, and the Attackers would run past me to kill the Follower.. It was stupid.

 

   I Personally only use them, when a Quest forces them on me.  I personally have no real use for them.

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1 hour ago, galgat said:

   I personally agree with you, followers Are so fricking stupid, and I don't care how well they are made they are always in the way, or doing something stupid.

 

I mean i made some pretty good ones for Morrowind, and I attempted taglady in Oblivion porting most of my command's and scripting, but the Follower in Oblivion was always treated like a Prize water Mellon, and the Attackers would run past me to kill the Follower.. It was stupid.

 

   I Personally only use them, when a Quest forces them on me.  I personally have no real use for them.

 

Early on I use followers with Defeat to keep some of the bandits occupied (with settings set so when a follower goes into bleedout the bandit goes for sex) and to provide additional firepower when mine is still weak.  After that I rarely ever use them and when one is forced on me I usually sneak drag them in front of whatever is in that dungeon so they get raped by everything and everyone only killing them after they finish with that forced follower who I then drag into the next.

 

I also use the Populated series of mods so there are usually more enemies (sometimes lots more) in most places.

 

DCL does make me play a little different though, if I want to collect a set of devices I'll bring a full set of followers so they all get bound making it more likely I get the full set sooner.

 

 

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I'll start a new game soon and wanted to ask if there is already a new release date, or if the current dev built can be recommended for a possibly longer playthrough (mainly with DCL) and fixes the two things bothering me most:

- Armbinder support for NPCs and

- DDi conflicts with the test cell from Zap 8.0?

 

On 4.2.2018 at 7:39 PM, Kimy said:

Now, that we have bound combat and armbinders aren't a showstopper anymore, the new system wanted to encourage players to actually PLAY while bound.

 

I'm 99% sure it was suggested it earlier and that at least users discussed a couple of things, but i can't remember if there was a final answer from the team. My thought about bound combat and the cooldown, the intentions to implement them and possible alternatives:

I appretiate the intention a lot, much more than the implementation. For bound combat, it's nice in theory but at least on higher difficulties it's way too weak. Imho there is no real difference between "i can't fight." and "i can fight, but i hardly even beat a skeever." I understand that it's meant to have a downside, but after 10 minutes realtime of kicking for a bandit in godmode and still not getting him close to death... i don't see it actually as an alternative to struggle out, reload, cheat, or whatever.

Making it more powerful at least with high heels (that would be a very nice reason to put/leave them on voluntarily imho) would be great. I'm totally fine with things like 

- to be able to fight in boots properly you need to wear them for a while (overall, not necessarily those you're currently wearing)

- brawl (or whatever else is used) getting buffed when wearing boots regardless if your hands are bound

 

Not necessarily all boots have to have this ability, but please if you do it, include the restrictive boots. They are my favorite boots of any armor mod i've seen so far and i wear them in most games all the time anyways, even if i don't have mods to provide keys. :smiley:

 

Another thing would be (possibly just for a few items/as an "addon", bells instead of additional locks):

Trying to struggle out alarms/calls NPCs in that area, both hostile and friendly (and i wouldn't exlude creatures either). Imho that would totally serve as an alternative to the cooldown, but i'd appretiate it as an addition as well. From there it depends on other mods what happens, Deviously Helpless and Cursed Loot and a couple of others are likely to trigger rape, without any of those mods you have to fight or just no consequences*, it all depends on the mods, area and settings users have.

In an empty place you can just struggle out as before, but you actually have to think about the place you are. Right now i technically still can do exactly that, just that i have to wait 2 hours after every fail which is imho much less interesting than the risk of getting raped or into a fight.

And yes, if it calls both hostile and friendly NPCs it's possible to trigger fights between those groups and get away unharmed. While not the main intention imho a legit tactic, there aren't that much places where it's possible that i'd consider that feature game breaking. :smile: 

 

If you don't want bells, maybe a frustrated moan after every failure would do the same trick. In this case, wearing a gag would reduce the area for the call. It doesn't always have to be a disadvantage to be tied from heel to hair. ;)

 

*A feature of beeing mocked for beeing helpless if no rape mod is avaivable would be nice to have, but i guess that should rather be another mod as well.

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4.1 is still a ways off.

 

And yes, we're looking at ways to make bound combat more viable in situations where it's currently not.

 

Your idea of adding risk to escape attempts is intriguing. It's certainly more fun than the cooldowns. We'll talk about it in the team!

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4 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

- DDi conflicts with the test cell from Zap 8.0?

Until it gets fixed on the DD side, this can be easily fixed in TES5Edit.  Simply look at the cells included in the DD .esp and delete the duplicate ZBFTestZone cell.  I'm sure it is just an artifact of the old ZAP dependency.

 

Other option would be to load ZAP after the DD mods, altho I have no clue if that could cause other issues.

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5 hours ago, Kimy said:

4.1 is still a ways off.

 

And yes, we're looking at ways to make bound combat more viable in situations where it's currently not.

 

Your idea of adding risk to escape attempts is intriguing. It's certainly more fun than the cooldowns. We'll talk about it in the team!

Glad you like it. :smile:

Some second thoughts i had: in case you consider it unappropiate easy then to struggle out in dungeons (or just cells there) already cleared, there could be added a chance to spawn any creatures. Skeevers would be the obvious choice to avoid questions like "Where did that thing hide?", the answer is ofc "In the wall". ;) I'm not sure if there is an easy way to detect what lives in a dungeon, maybe scan for corpses and just add a few of whatever lives there originally?

That would be the only exception i'd make for increased risks. Outdoor cells are rarely really cleared, it's quite likely there is something you didn't kill yet in most places. And if you did you've earned a save place in advance i'd say. But if it's easier or less script heavy just to spawn NPCs instead of calling them, that still might be an idea.

In cities the risk depends on third party mods and varies from "nothing bad will happen" to "get raped, robbed, enslaved and sold", just according to the likes of users and their installed mods. Possibly leave the cooldown but reduce it to something like 10-20 seconds to give those other mods a chance to trigger between tries, i think that would do it.

In (empty) player homes it's always safe and without any downsides which is totally fine imho. If you run from a cave to your home you've already earned it to get out of that thing, and it can be used as a safe place for testing purposes as well. Same for the LAL cell or other empty places. ;)

 

@Reesewow Thanks. Aside from cleaning the DLCs i've never did anything with TESedit... i'll try load order first and see if that works. Doesn't necessarily have to be stable, but if i can join that test cell at least once to see what's there that would already be enough. ;)

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