Jump to content

Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta


Recommended Posts

Just some thoughts about escape from devices i thought i write down.

I think someone should not be able to unlock an Armbinder by yourself (maybe not be unlocked anyway, as they are normaly no locks on armbinders :smile: )

So you need help by someone like you do for Yokes . You could be able to struggle out of it if lucky, (but normaly not if doublecrossed over the chest).

It makes your escape depend on someones mercy. I know it was there in the previous version and when your talkskill was high enough,

you got out if it to easy. But at least you needed someones help.

Maybe the mittens count in there as well. But need keys to release the buckles on your wrists (and no struggling).

Straightjacket seems for me same as armbinder, normaly no keys, but option to struggle.

Struggling sure exhausts and might be futile. Other restrains could get unlocked by keys and by yourself as long as hands are free.

Even Handcuffs, but maybe a little more difficult :smile:

I know its sure difficult to make different escape options for different devices, and this are just my thoughts.

Else i thank anyone working and helping on this great mod(s) that makes me still playing Skyrim with so much excitment ^^ regards

 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Hanshurtig11 said:

Just some thoughts about escape from devices i thought i write down.

I think someone should not be able to unlock an Armbinder by yourself (maybe not be unlocked anyway, as they are normaly no locks on armbinders :smile: )

So you need help by someone like you do for Yokes . You could be able to struggle out of it if lucky, (but normaly not if doublecrossed over the chest).

It makes your escape depend on someones mercy. I know it was there in the previous version and when your talkskill was high enough,

you got out if it to easy. But at least you needed someones help.

Maybe the mittens count in there as well. But need keys to release the buckles on your wrists (and no struggling).

Straightjacket seems for me same as armbinder, normaly no keys, but option to struggle.

Struggling sure exhausts and might be futile. Other restrains could get unlocked by keys and by yourself as long as hands are free.

Even Handcuffs, but maybe a little more difficult :smile:

I know its sure difficult to make different escape options for different devices, and this are just my thoughts.

Else i thank anyone working and helping on this great mod(s) that makes me still playing Skyrim with so much excitment ^^ regards

 

There are people who can escape these things with now but since there are no longer any player attributes to fall back to in determining how dexterous and such a person is giving them no option to escape standard items would turn Cursed Loot and other mods like it into quest killers as you would have to constantly seek someone to help release you. While some skills may help simulate this skill or knowledge there should be a way out without having to leave a dungeon repeatedly, it is the primary reason I disable yokes when I play as the chances of finding a key in the middle of a dungeon where you have cleared out everything behind you and have nothing but creatures ahead of you leaves little chance of escape and having to backtrack to a town or place to get it removed.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Veladarius said:

There are people who can escape these things with now but since there are no longer any player attributes to fall back to in determining how dexterous and such a person is giving them no option to escape standard items would turn Cursed Loot and other mods like it into quest killers as you would have to constantly seek someone to help release you. While some skills may help simulate this skill or knowledge there should be a way out without having to leave a dungeon repeatedly, it is the primary reason I disable yokes when I play as the chances of finding a key in the middle of a dungeon where you have cleared out everything behind you and have nothing but creatures ahead of you leaves little chance of escape and having to backtrack to a town or place to get it removed.

I see your point, thats why i have a nice, well equipped follower allways with me, that might help me secure my way deeper inside the cave and back home, even when unable to fight myself. And yes, sometimes these devices can be a little straitening, but arent they made for ? ;)  regards

Link to comment
2 hours ago, Hanshurtig11 said:

I see your point, thats why i have a nice, well equipped follower allways with me, that might help me secure my way deeper inside the cave and back home, even when unable to fight myself. And yes, sometimes these devices can be a little straitening, but arent they made for ? ;)  regards

The only thing I use followers for is watching over the orphans I give a home to. I got tired of getting blasted with fireballs or ice storms while in melee combat with an enemy or plucking arrows out of my back or plucking arrows out of their back when I had a good shot lined up or them stepping in front of my sword. Generally I can wipe out everyone in a dungeon or camp without most any of them ever seeing me except the sometimes the leader.

Link to comment

In case it is still helpful, I am also noticing some issues with Corsets:

 

[02/07/2018 - 04:57:43PM] [Zad]: Processing [Tight Corset]
[02/07/2018 - 04:57:43PM] Error: Mismatched types assigning to variable named "::temp5"
stack:
	[alias PlayerREF on quest zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadEventCorset.execute() - "zadEventCorset.psc" Line ?
	[alias PlayerREF on quest zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadEventCorset.Eval() - "zadBaseEvent.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.ProcessOneEvent() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.ProcessEvents() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.UpdateGlobalEvent() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.UpdateGlobalEvent() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.OnUpdateGameTime() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
[02/07/2018 - 04:57:43PM] Error: Type mismatch for argument 2. 
stack:
	[alias PlayerREF on quest zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadEventCorset.execute() - "zadEventCorset.psc" Line ?
	[alias PlayerREF on quest zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadEventCorset.Eval() - "zadBaseEvent.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.ProcessOneEvent() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.ProcessEvents() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.UpdateGlobalEvent() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.UpdateGlobalEvent() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?
	[zadEventsQuest (1803E3F3)].zadeventslots.OnUpdateGameTime() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line ?

Here too, mismatched arguments and nothing I can see in the code that would throw that kind of error.

Link to comment
On 2/4/2018 at 12:39 PM, Kimy said:

5. I will look at introducing different quality lockpicks (people have suggested this idea for keys, but I think it fits lockpick tools MUCH better, and will be easier to implement on top of it), so people might be able to escape their bindings with lockpicks offering them better chances than the standard vanilla lockpick. Modders will obviously be able to freely allow/disallow this feature for their custom items.

 

Perhaps the Skeleton Key could inadvertently become a useful artifact if it was put into this system.

Link to comment
10 minutes ago, IronDusk33 said:

Perhaps the Skeleton Key could inadvertently become a useful artifact if it was put into this system.

I like the idea of Skeleton Key being useful for DD lore-wise.... but I hate the idea of 1) doing the thieves guild quests up the that point to get it and 2) not finishing the quest once I have it. :classic_undecided:

Link to comment

Ok, so I decided to make the escape system I described a few pages back.

Spoiler
On 2/3/2018 at 2:26 PM, IronDusk33 said:

How 'bout this:

 

When the player tries to struggle out of or unlock a device, they have to have a certain amount of stamina. If they do, they'll start playing some animation (optional), and their stamina will start to drain. The rate is dependent on the device and how the player is trying to get out of it.

 

The player then has to press the WASD move keys to continue struggling. One of the movement keys will slow the rate at which their stamina drains, and which key that is changes after a few seconds. The player has to continue pressing and holding the right keys to keep their stamina from draining to quickly.

 

If the player manages to continue struggling for a certain amount of time without running out of stamina, the device is unlocked. If not, then they're out of stamina, and have to wait to recover before they can try again, not because of some magical timer, but because they are actually too tired in-game. It would also mean that getting out of devices would be harder when the player is exhausted through other realism mods.

 

If the player has the telekinesis spell, then they could also try to struggle out of the device while using magicka.

 

It's pretty much exactly as I described it there. It's currently slightly unpolished, not having an MCM menu or new animations, and I'm not skilled enough at the moment to make all the animations needed for a mod like this. However, since a lot of people were asking for an alternative escape mechanic, I thought some of you would like to test it out as is. If Kimy enjoys it she is welcome to implement some version of it into the base framework.

 

Here are the specifics of how it works:

Spoiler

After installing the mod, you now have a Struggle Hotkey, set to Right Control.

 

If you are restrained, but aren't wearing arm or hand binding restraints, holding that key pops up a menu on how you want to struggle out of your restraints.

-Brute Strength: Uses Stamina

-Telekinesis: Uses Magicka at a Higher Rate, requires the Telekinesis Spell

-Lockpicking: Uses Stamina and a Lockpick, struggling requires less time

-Skeleton Key: Uses Stamina, struggling requires much less time

 

After you select an option, keep holding the hotkey. Then either Stamina or Magicka will start to drain as your character struggles. (Currently she will use a place-holder vanilla animation.) Now, press and hold one of the WASD movement keys. Holding one of the movement keys will slow the rate your Stamina or Magicka drains, however the key you need to hold changes after a random interval. Holding more than one movement key at a time will cause your Stamina or Magicka to drain faster, so you can't just hold down all the keys.

 

Keep up this game of holding the Struggle Hotkey, and the correct movement key so that your character continues to struggle without running out of Stamina or Magicka. Eventually, she will slip out of one of her restraints, or will run out of Stamina or Magicka.

 

When either of those things happen, your character will become fatigued. Lowering her regen rates in the appropriate value. Each successive restraint escaped will lower her regen rates further, and cause the debuff to last for longer.

 

At the moment your character will escape out of restraints in a specific order:

-Hoods

-Blindfolds

-Gags

-Chastity Belts

-Chastity Bras

-Gloves

-Boots

-Corsets

-Harnesses

-Collars

-Leg Cuffs

-Arm Cuffs

-Suits and Dresses

 

You can change the difficulty of escape through the following command:

 

set _DDEA_GlobalDifficulty to XXX

 

Where XXX is some positive number. It's a simple multiple deciding how long it takes to escape a restraint. By default it's set to 1.0

 

To Uninstall use the following commands:

player.dispelallspells

stopquest _DDEA_Quest

 

Devious Devices - Escape Artistry Beta.rar

Link to comment

@IronDusk33

 

Nice work i liked it alot! Also like the punishment time that consequent fails you basically have to live with it or find another way to get the device off. I would like an option to maybe set a hotkey if this was added because i think left ctrl would work better that way i can still move the player camera, and the struggle thing would pop up after like 2.5 sec of holding just so you don't accidentally bring it up. I don't know about anyone else but my sneak key is set to toggle not hold so it would be good ^^

Link to comment

Item Suggestion: Bright Collar

This is a normal collar that has been enchanted to produce a light effect around the wearer, similar to the candle light effect but with devious intent (perhaps with different colors).  It's purpose is to insure that the slave is always visible and to draw even more attention to the fact that the wearer is a slave. It makes the slave very easy to spot in the event of an escape or theft attempt.

Devious effects:

     1. Sneaking is not possible (or very ineffective [or could actively attract enemies within a certain range]).

     2. Stealing is not possible (or chances greatly reduced).

     2. Greater chance to be further restrained/played with by talking to a NPC then when wearing a normal collar.

 

Why implement this?

One of the most popular builds is the stealth archer. So long as the player's hands are free, they can basically one shot everything regardless of what other restraints they are wearing. The bright collar would hopefully tone that back a bit and offer a soft counter to that tactic.  Also stealing keys from the key holder is very easy with a little bit of enchanting. This collar could prevent that until it is removed.  When used on a follower, it would make the follower much easier to track.

Link to comment
On 2/7/2018 at 1:13 PM, Veladarius said:

The only thing I use followers for is watching over the orphans I give a home to. I got tired of getting blasted with fireballs or ice storms while in melee combat with an enemy or plucking arrows out of my back or plucking arrows out of their back when I had a good shot lined up or them stepping in front of my sword. Generally I can wipe out everyone in a dungeon or camp without most any of them ever seeing me except the sometimes the leader.

   I personally agree with you, followers Are so fricking stupid, and I don't care how well they are made they are always in the way, or doing something stupid.

 

I mean i made some pretty good ones for Morrowind, and I attempted taglady in Oblivion porting most of my command's and scripting, but the Follower in Oblivion was always treated like a Prize water Mellon, and the Attackers would run past me to kill the Follower.. It was stupid.

 

   I Personally only use them, when a Quest forces them on me.  I personally have no real use for them.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, galgat said:

   I personally agree with you, followers Are so fricking stupid, and I don't care how well they are made they are always in the way, or doing something stupid.

 

I mean i made some pretty good ones for Morrowind, and I attempted taglady in Oblivion porting most of my command's and scripting, but the Follower in Oblivion was always treated like a Prize water Mellon, and the Attackers would run past me to kill the Follower.. It was stupid.

 

   I Personally only use them, when a Quest forces them on me.  I personally have no real use for them.

 

Early on I use followers with Defeat to keep some of the bandits occupied (with settings set so when a follower goes into bleedout the bandit goes for sex) and to provide additional firepower when mine is still weak.  After that I rarely ever use them and when one is forced on me I usually sneak drag them in front of whatever is in that dungeon so they get raped by everything and everyone only killing them after they finish with that forced follower who I then drag into the next.

 

I also use the Populated series of mods so there are usually more enemies (sometimes lots more) in most places.

 

DCL does make me play a little different though, if I want to collect a set of devices I'll bring a full set of followers so they all get bound making it more likely I get the full set sooner.

 

 

Link to comment

I'll start a new game soon and wanted to ask if there is already a new release date, or if the current dev built can be recommended for a possibly longer playthrough (mainly with DCL) and fixes the two things bothering me most:

- Armbinder support for NPCs and

- DDi conflicts with the test cell from Zap 8.0?

 

On 4.2.2018 at 7:39 PM, Kimy said:

Now, that we have bound combat and armbinders aren't a showstopper anymore, the new system wanted to encourage players to actually PLAY while bound.

 

I'm 99% sure it was suggested it earlier and that at least users discussed a couple of things, but i can't remember if there was a final answer from the team. My thought about bound combat and the cooldown, the intentions to implement them and possible alternatives:

I appretiate the intention a lot, much more than the implementation. For bound combat, it's nice in theory but at least on higher difficulties it's way too weak. Imho there is no real difference between "i can't fight." and "i can fight, but i hardly even beat a skeever." I understand that it's meant to have a downside, but after 10 minutes realtime of kicking for a bandit in godmode and still not getting him close to death... i don't see it actually as an alternative to struggle out, reload, cheat, or whatever.

Making it more powerful at least with high heels (that would be a very nice reason to put/leave them on voluntarily imho) would be great. I'm totally fine with things like 

- to be able to fight in boots properly you need to wear them for a while (overall, not necessarily those you're currently wearing)

- brawl (or whatever else is used) getting buffed when wearing boots regardless if your hands are bound

 

Not necessarily all boots have to have this ability, but please if you do it, include the restrictive boots. They are my favorite boots of any armor mod i've seen so far and i wear them in most games all the time anyways, even if i don't have mods to provide keys. :smiley:

 

Another thing would be (possibly just for a few items/as an "addon", bells instead of additional locks):

Trying to struggle out alarms/calls NPCs in that area, both hostile and friendly (and i wouldn't exlude creatures either). Imho that would totally serve as an alternative to the cooldown, but i'd appretiate it as an addition as well. From there it depends on other mods what happens, Deviously Helpless and Cursed Loot and a couple of others are likely to trigger rape, without any of those mods you have to fight or just no consequences*, it all depends on the mods, area and settings users have.

In an empty place you can just struggle out as before, but you actually have to think about the place you are. Right now i technically still can do exactly that, just that i have to wait 2 hours after every fail which is imho much less interesting than the risk of getting raped or into a fight.

And yes, if it calls both hostile and friendly NPCs it's possible to trigger fights between those groups and get away unharmed. While not the main intention imho a legit tactic, there aren't that much places where it's possible that i'd consider that feature game breaking. :smile: 

 

If you don't want bells, maybe a frustrated moan after every failure would do the same trick. In this case, wearing a gag would reduce the area for the call. It doesn't always have to be a disadvantage to be tied from heel to hair. ;)

 

*A feature of beeing mocked for beeing helpless if no rape mod is avaivable would be nice to have, but i guess that should rather be another mod as well.

Link to comment

4.1 is still a ways off.

 

And yes, we're looking at ways to make bound combat more viable in situations where it's currently not.

 

Your idea of adding risk to escape attempts is intriguing. It's certainly more fun than the cooldowns. We'll talk about it in the team!

Link to comment
4 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

- DDi conflicts with the test cell from Zap 8.0?

Until it gets fixed on the DD side, this can be easily fixed in TES5Edit.  Simply look at the cells included in the DD .esp and delete the duplicate ZBFTestZone cell.  I'm sure it is just an artifact of the old ZAP dependency.

 

Other option would be to load ZAP after the DD mods, altho I have no clue if that could cause other issues.

Link to comment
5 hours ago, Kimy said:

4.1 is still a ways off.

 

And yes, we're looking at ways to make bound combat more viable in situations where it's currently not.

 

Your idea of adding risk to escape attempts is intriguing. It's certainly more fun than the cooldowns. We'll talk about it in the team!

Glad you like it. :smile:

Some second thoughts i had: in case you consider it unappropiate easy then to struggle out in dungeons (or just cells there) already cleared, there could be added a chance to spawn any creatures. Skeevers would be the obvious choice to avoid questions like "Where did that thing hide?", the answer is ofc "In the wall". ;) I'm not sure if there is an easy way to detect what lives in a dungeon, maybe scan for corpses and just add a few of whatever lives there originally?

That would be the only exception i'd make for increased risks. Outdoor cells are rarely really cleared, it's quite likely there is something you didn't kill yet in most places. And if you did you've earned a save place in advance i'd say. But if it's easier or less script heavy just to spawn NPCs instead of calling them, that still might be an idea.

In cities the risk depends on third party mods and varies from "nothing bad will happen" to "get raped, robbed, enslaved and sold", just according to the likes of users and their installed mods. Possibly leave the cooldown but reduce it to something like 10-20 seconds to give those other mods a chance to trigger between tries, i think that would do it.

In (empty) player homes it's always safe and without any downsides which is totally fine imho. If you run from a cave to your home you've already earned it to get out of that thing, and it can be used as a safe place for testing purposes as well. Same for the LAL cell or other empty places. ;)

 

@Reesewow Thanks. Aside from cleaning the DLCs i've never did anything with TESedit... i'll try load order first and see if that works. Doesn't necessarily have to be stable, but if i can join that test cell at least once to see what's there that would already be enough. ;)

Link to comment
5 hours ago, Kimy said:

Your idea of adding risk to escape attempts is intriguing. It's certainly more fun than the cooldowns. We'll talk about it in the team

I think that would be better in a separate mod because it seems more like content than framework.  It could find a home in DCL, or even better in an updated Deviously Helpless.

 

By the way, as a new mod author struggling up the learning curve, I would like to see the DD documentation get a little love.  I've had to figure most things out by reading the code and experimenting, which takes a good deal of time.

 

Finally, @Kimy if you don't mind would like to study how DCL makes the "You're smoking hot.." line takes over the standard dialog and how the Self Bondage feature finds devices to equip before I write the "Follower ties Player" part of my Devious Device Helpers mod,  Of course I have to find it first...

 

Link to comment

@Kimy

 

I really don't want to sound as if I'm complaining, because I know how much effort you and others put into this and your other mods, and I don't like seeing people give you stick for that, but after sitting for one real time hour yesterday, and a day and a half in game play, getting precisely nowhere, for goodness sake, can you please please please put cooldown period changes at the top of the list of 'things to do'?  Even if it entails a single one off patch for one script change/whatever

 

I very seldom sit and rage at my computer, like some old grandad ranting at the TV, but yesterday was a close run thing....   LOL   I hope you can at least get a laugh at the mental picture of it .... :tongue:

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. For more information, see our Privacy Policy & Terms of Use