Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[Kimy]

3 hours ago, Solatium said:

When you set the properties for each item, you’re probably re-using the same set of values for the leather items and the same set for the inescapable ones, which seems like a hassle if you’re making a ton of new items.

Creating a new item and setting the escape parameters takes about a minute. I created several hundreds of them, so I guess I can do that faster than most, but even an average user shouldn't need more than two minutes per device. Making item creation easy was one of the main reasons to redesign the system. For close to 100% of modders using DD, there won't be any need to come up with ways how to make item creation even faster.

[Solatium]

12 hours ago, Kimy said:

Creating a new item and setting the escape parameters takes about a minute. I created several hundreds of them, so I guess I can do that faster than most, but even an average user shouldn't need more than two minutes per device. Making item creation easy was one of the main reasons to redesign the system. For close to 100% of modders using DD, there won't be any need to come up with ways how to make item creation even faster.

I understand that, but my point was also addressing the requests to make these parameters configurable. It was just a suggestion that I figured might kill two birds with one stone.

[Kimy]

I have no plans to split up the difficulty slider. It does what it's meant to do in a satisfying enough fashion - which is letting people chose if they want harder devices or more cosmetic ones. There is no need for adjusting -every- single parameter individually. Most video games won't let you do that. They usually give you a difficulty slider just like the one in DDI.

[Hanshurtig11]

Hy Folks.. I still have the problem, that the signs and bells from the heretic line (in DDx 4.0) dont show up for me.

The plugs themself are there but no chain and sign/bell. I even can hear the bell jingle.

Ball and chain works fine as any other stuff with chains. ANyone an idea that might help ? regards

 

PS: another question.. Is the option, to use keys only once, gone ? (remove after use)

[SleepyJim]

Hoping to get a little help if possible:

 

I've got a plugin I made a long time ago which added in some custom devices of my own (very standard stuff, just with different meshes and/or textures.) With the release of DD 4.0 I've rebuilt my mod from scratch to take advantage of the easier customisation options, and I've now managed to get lots of devices that have their own messages when equipping, removing, attempting to escape etc. The new system really is brilliant for that! The only problem I'm having is finding how to eliminate cooldown timers for escape and unlock attempts.

 

I built each of my devices by copying a framework device's inventory and script instances to act as templates, linking them together, pointing them to the meshes/textures I wanted, and then making changes to the properties in the inventory records using TES5Edit. The armbinder has unlock and escape cooldown properties, and the yoke has both of those plus a repair lock cooldown. By setting all those to zero I've succeeded in having no cooldown applied in-game for those devices. But I can't see any cooldown properties for anything else. So far I've found with a posture collar and hood that I have to wait around three hours after a failed unlock attempt before being allowed to try again (this was with the "plaything" difficulty selected in the MCM) but their inventory records don't have anything I can find to adjust that would relate to cooldowns. I've set all lock shield min and max timers to zero, but otherwise I can't see anything else except base chances of break/jam/pick etc.

 

Is it possible to insert properties in without messing around with the scripts? Or is there something else I've missed? Any help would be greatly appreciated. This is the last tiny fly in my ointment, and if I can squish it I'll have the custom device set of my poor dovahkiin's nightmares thanks to this great new version of the framework.

 

Thanks.

[LazyBoot]

13 minutes ago, SleepyJim said:

Hoping to get a little help if possible:

 

I've got a plugin I made a long time ago which added in some custom devices of my own (very standard stuff, just with different meshes and/or textures.) With the release of DD 4.0 I've rebuilt my mod from scratch to take advantage of the easier customisation options, and I've now managed to get lots of devices that have their own messages when equipping, removing, attempting to escape etc. The new system really is brilliant for that! The only problem I'm having is finding how to eliminate cooldown timers for escape and unlock attempts.

 

I built each of my devices by copying a framework device's inventory and script instances to act as templates, linking them together, pointing them to the meshes/textures I wanted, and then making changes to the properties in the inventory records using TES5Edit. The armbinder has unlock and escape cooldown properties, and the yoke has both of those plus a repair lock cooldown. By setting all those to zero I've succeeded in having no cooldown applied in-game for those devices. But I can't see any cooldown properties for anything else. So far I've found with a posture collar and hood that I have to wait around three hours after a failed unlock attempt before being allowed to try again (this was with the "plaything" difficulty selected in the MCM) but their inventory records don't have anything I can find to adjust that would relate to cooldowns. I've set all lock shield min and max timers to zero, but otherwise I can't see anything else except base chances of break/jam/pick etc.

 

Is it possible to insert properties in without messing around with the scripts? Or is there something else I've missed? Any help would be greatly appreciated. This is the last tiny fly in my ointment, and if I can squish it I'll have the custom device set of my poor dovahkiin's nightmares thanks to this great new version of the framework.

 

Thanks.

Last time I checked TES5Edit is a bit hard to use in cases like that, since it doesn't allow you to change properties that has been left as not defined(aka default) on the item.

While I personally prefer doing what I can in TES5Edit, this is one thing I'd suggest using the CK for.

 

EDIT: Notice how this* posture collar doesn't have a pencil next to the cooldown options, and the text "<<Using Default Script Value>>" is shown, that means it's not saved on the item at all, and can not be changed in TES5Edit.

^{* Image in spoiler tag.}

 

Spoiler

 

 

[SleepyJim]

10 hours ago, LazyBoot said:

Last time I checked TES5Edit is a bit hard to use in cases like that, since it doesn't allow you to change properties that has been left as not defined(aka default) on the item.

While I personally prefer doing what I can in TES5Edit, this is one thing I'd suggest using the CK for.

 

EDIT: Notice how this* posture collar doesn't have a pencil next to the cooldown options, and the text "<<Using Default Script Value>>" is shown, that means it's not saved on the item at all, and can not be changed in TES5Edit.

^{* Image in spoiler tag.}

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Thanks! I prefer TES5Edit when possible as well, due to the CK being so crash-happy, but I'll have a go at it with the CK in the morning.

 

edit: worked perfectly as far as I've been able to see! I've always avoided messing around with scripts, but this turned out to be quite simple. Many thanks again for the help @LazyBoot

 

And many thanks to the team for the new customisation system. Wonderful stuff!

[Addasus]

I've encountered a couple weird issues with plugs. The Devious X spells randomly stop working on some NPCs with plugs/vibrators, but not all, even if they have the same type of plug installed. Also, anal plugs can't be removed without resetinventory  because the game is convinced the target is wearing a chastity belt. Anyone know what's going on?

 

Also, I don't suppose there's a way to keep NPCs bound in an armbinder after leaving the area or reloading a save, is there?

[LazyBoot]

1 hour ago, Addasus said:

I've encountered a couple weird issues with plugs. The Devious X spells randomly stop working on some NPCs with plugs/vibrators, but not all, even if they have the same type of plug installed. Also, anal plugs can't be removed without resetinventory  because the game is convinced the target is wearing a chastity belt. Anyone know what's going on?

 

Also, I don't suppose there's a way to keep NPCs bound in an armbinder after leaving the area or reloading a save, is there?

This should fix it. Alternatively you can equip them with an open-back belt, then remove the plug, and remove the belt again.

 

DD4npcPlugBeltFix.zip

[harakoni]

I think my question may have gotten lost. Were there any plans to integrate the rope bondage assets from zaz animation v8?

[Solatium]

On 1/20/2018 at 2:05 PM, Kimy said:

I have no plans to split up the difficulty slider. It does what it's meant to do in a satisfying enough fashion - which is letting people chose if they want harder devices or more cosmetic ones. There is no need for adjusting -every- single parameter individually. Most video games won't let you do that. They usually give you a difficulty slider just like the one in DDI.

Then, if I were to put up a PR for adding some customization features (via checkboxes that would allow players to enable/disable certain features in the MCM menu), would it be declined, or would such changes have to exist as a separate mod?

[Kimy]

Generally, I am looking at each and every suggestion from the "does it change DD for the better or not" angle. If I feel a suggestion makes DD a better framework, I will merge it. If not, then..well...I will not. Honestly, you will have a hard time to convince me that 20 individual controls are better than one straightforward setting that affects everything difficulty related with one click. You know...there is a reason why this design is industry standard.

 

I am totally, as in 100% absolutely certainly, convinced, that if DD never had these controls I removed from DD, nobody would EVER have complained about having just that one slider. The only reason why a handful of people bring up this dead horse again, again, again, and again, is because people hate change. Any change.

[Derenriche]

On a side note, there'a bug right now (Not too sure if DCL or DD) where while you are plugged any crafting station interaction or furniture/stationary interaction will trigger the line: "you awkwardly try to avoid the plugs inside you as you sit". I'm pretty sure that's only suppose to trigger for sitting down and not for all furniture/stationary interaction.

[cnc4]

12 hours ago, Derenriche said:

On a side note, there'a bug right now (Not too sure if DCL or DD) where while you are plugged any crafting station interaction or furniture/stationary interaction will trigger the line: "you awkwardly try to avoid the plugs inside you as you sit". I'm pretty sure that's only suppose to trigger for sitting down and not for all furniture/stationary interaction.

I believe it is from DDi. They have an event called onSit on zadPlayerScript, and a furniture filter list SitBlockKeywords where the furniture should not trigger the event. The problem is the list is empty, which means every furniture will trigger the message.

[Anooon]

19 hours ago, Kimy said:

Honestly, you will have a hard time to convince me that 20 individual controls are better than one straightforward setting that affects everything difficulty related with one click.

Why does it have to be either-or? What harm will it do to have your difficulty slider and then a sub-menu where individual options can be toggled?

[Derenriche]

3 hours ago, Anooon said:

Why does it have to be either-or? What harm will it do to have your difficulty slider and then a sub-menu where individual options can be toggled?

that's a bitch to maintain as a feature because refactoring will be hell and serve more for developer debug then release feature.

[r5e4w3q2]

Random thought, key quality.

Could break chance and possibly jam chance be a property of the key rather then the device, or a combination of the two?  You could then have more common "makeshift" keys that have a higher break and jam chances then standard keys or rarer "well-crafted" keys with lower then standard chances. Low quality keys give the player the option if they want to risk the possible jam to remove it right now or if they want to wait and hope for a better key. If crafting ever gets redone then there could possibly be a way to craft a better key from multiple lower quality ones.

 

Possibilities:

Makeshift - very high break, high jam - Do you feel lucky, punk?

Delicate - high break, standard jam - Decent chance of removing one item, so which piece of that set do you want off the most?

Standard - standard break and jam - The cheap off-brand generic!

Sturdy - low break, standard jam - A quality key, well worth the (high) price!

Well-crafted - low/no break, no jam - The holy grail.

[Kimy]

That would be neigh-on impossible to implement. Device manipulation is handled by the device script, not the key, and the device has no direct access to any scripts attached to the key, so it can't read its properties. With some dirty tricks it's possible to gain such access, but the device wouldn't even know what key(s) other than the one defined in the device properties can be used to open the lock. That would entail a complete rewrite of the unlocking feature, as it works under the assumption that there is always exactly -one- type of key that fits this device.

 

Soo....probably not going to happen, at least not in this fashion.

 

I will keep the idea in mind, though. Maybe it can be used in other ways.

[bicobus]

19 minutes ago, Kimy said:

That would be neigh-on impossible to implement. Device manipulation is handled by the device script, not the key, and the device has no direct access to any scripts attached to the key, so it can't read its properties. With some dirty tricks it's possible to gain such access, but the device wouldn't even know what key(s) other than the one defined in the device properties can be used to open the lock. That would entail a complete rewrite of the unlocking feature, as it works under the assumption that there is always exactly -one- type of key that fits this device.

 

Soo....probably not going to happen, at least not in this fashion.

 

I will keep the idea in mind, though. Maybe it can be used in other ways.

Right, because devices and keys are different objects. If I understand correctly, solely based on what you're saying here, is it that keys are in no way involved in the unlocking mechanism beyond their existence in the player's inventory? If so, could the presence of a specific item (i.e. the skeleton key) be used as a weight in the breaking chances?

[Kimy]

4 hours ago, bicobus said:

Right, because devices and keys are different objects. If I understand correctly, solely based on what you're saying here, is it that keys are in no way involved in the unlocking mechanism beyond their existence in the player's inventory? If so, could the presence of a specific item (i.e. the skeleton key) be used as a weight in the breaking chances?

Yes, and yes. That's along the lines I am thinking to make use of the (pretty cool) idea to have different-quality lockpicks.

[Content Consumer]

6 hours ago, Kimy said:

That would be neigh-on impossible to implement. Device manipulation is handled by the device script, not the key, and the device has no direct access to any scripts attached to the key, so it can't read its properties. With some dirty tricks it's possible to gain such access, but the device wouldn't even know what key(s) other than the one defined in the device properties can be used to open the lock. That would entail a complete rewrite of the unlocking feature, as it works under the assumption that there is always exactly -one- type of key that fits this device.

 

Soo....probably not going to happen, at least not in this fashion.

 

I will keep the idea in mind, though. Maybe it can be used in other ways.

Speaking of dirty tricks...

 

You could do something like attach a script to the key object that fires off a modevent when it leaves the player's inventory. Then you would listen for that modevent, roll a random number, then do something based on the result (high roll means key breaks, low roll means key succeeds, etc). Since each type of key has its own script and unique modevent, you'll always know which keys are used to open the lock. Normal key = open, makeshift key = roll to break.

 

Of course, this isn't ideal, since the key is essentially used up (removed from inventory) before you see whether or not it breaks, but if it doesn't you could just additem back the same key. Or whatever... I dunno, I'm tired and probably not making much sense.

 

Not great, but possible.

[bicobus]

If there is a mod event when a key is removed from the player inventory, what happens if the player drop 15 keys at once? Say in a container for safe keeping...

[Reesewow]

7 minutes ago, bicobus said:

If there is a mod event when a key is removed from the player inventory, what happens if the player drop 15 keys at once? Say in a container for safe keeping...

If I'm not mistaken Cursed Loot already detects key movement in inventory - the "shaky hand" option.  If I recall from back when I was masochistic enough to use it, moving a bunch of keys at once could still trigger the event.... and your character would drop the stack and somehow not be able to find any of them.

[johnny jimson]

armbinders and wrist restraints dont give an equip message and animation does not start until a few seconds after equip, and doesn't persist after fast travel.

[UnEvenSteven]

You know Kimy, maybe you should consider removing the difficulty slider and all devices from Integration and Expansion. Or you could keep the devices in but don't give them any functions, they would be purely cosmetic so authors can see what they have to work with. Basically make them unusable by any mod.

 

Why do this? Having devices from the framework available for use in mods and an all-encompassing difficulty slider for basic devices seems to be the root of the problem people are having with DD4. It should be completely up to mods to control the difficulty of devices and not the framework. I believe you've said something along these lines before or recently. Technically mods do control the difficulty of their own devices but many DD-based mods still use the basic devices from the framework and all of those are controlled by single slider outside of the mods control.

 

Not going to name any names but the new escape system gets complained about often, either from authors or users. Requests about additions or changes to the difficulty slider get brought up again and again in this very thread and elsewhere. It may not have been a problem with earlier versions of the framework because escape options were either simple or extremely limited, it appears to be a problem now when DD4 added many new escape functions but doesn't allow for complete customization of said functions.

 

Of course this would break every DD-based mod that uses the basic devices so authors would be forced to make their own custom devices to fill the spot of basic devices if needed by the mod. You don't have to remove the new escape functions created for DD4, just make them accessible via script so authors can create a difficulty slider or sliders for devices in their own mod's MCM. This way users can tailor the difficulty of each mod to their liking, it should also give authors more control over the devices in their mods.

 

Wild idea but it would probably stop the complaints towards DD4's difficulty slider. With devices and the slider removed from the framework author's could create their own basic devices and a slider(s) to allow users to customize the difficulty to their liking.