Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[iivanvv]

23 hours ago, Taki17 said:

Not sure exactly what the issue was, since a quick binary comparison with fc yielded no differences between the originals, and those included in beta 9. However I'd appreciate if anyone could take a second look at this and see if they can reproduce the issue on their ends, with the updated plugin.

I don't know how I can help, because everything related to hkx is a mystery to me. I can only tell you what black magic I used to get the original files  

1. Exported files from 3ds Max in KF format (Nif Plugin 4.0.0.beta2).
2. Converted with hkxcmd.exe (1.4.0.0) to 32-bit hkx for Skyrim LE.
3. Converted with HavokBehaviorPostProcess.exe (AFAIK that is the tool from the game) to 64-bit version for Skyrim SE.

[hungvipbcsok]

3 hours ago, Taki17 said:

And for a different topic, I've noticed that out of the two, pretty much always available options to try and escape restraints, "struggle" and "cut" are not so much different. The sole exception being that other restraints cannot be cut with bound hands, however this does not apply to the hand restraint in question. In every other case, having "cut" and "struggle" available with unbound hands basically means having two charges for "struggle" before it goes on cooldown. This makes it sort of redundant.

If I remember right then 'cut' will destroy the item while 'struggle' is not. 

[brdc]

3 hours ago, zarantha said:

 

When you're installing on SE, there are multiple DLLs available. Make sure you select the one that matches your skyrim and skse versions.

Looks like you should be on 1.5.97, so make sure to check SE and not any of the AE DLLs.

 

To check if you have the right DLL, you can look in your skse64.log and see if it loaded correctly. The log is located at \Documents\My Games\Skyrim Special Edition\SKSE\skse64.log.

 

Also, your crash log is complaining about JaxonzDroppableStatics.bsa a lot. Did you grab the SE version of that mod?

Thanks for timely advise, I'll check that mod right away.

As for the DLLs, do you mean all the selections in the fomod installer? I'm pretty sure I made all the right choices. 

I guess the log tells the same thing.

 

Well, my biggest concern and question is, by what steps can I upgrate DD properly.

Just download the new version, install, disable the old ones. Is that right or not?

Or is there "standard procedure" to make upgrate right each time?

[BYJE137]

On 10/24/2022 at 8:50 PM, audhol said:

If anyone has anything they would like made for DD I'm happy to consider it. I don't pretend to be the greatest modeler or texturer but I can output something of reasonable quality, if its not something that Kimy wants to assimilate into the DD hive then it could always be released as an addon.

A few ideas, find it hard to evaluate how well each of them would 'fit in with the rest', just throwing them out there.

 

Something along these lines (belt restraint plus front/back (both?) cuffs linked to the belt):



Another option might be using similar materials, arms linked in front, elbows in the back, with similar cuff/belt structure. Short lazy search didn't find a decent image, hope the idea makes sense. Note that the cuff type could probably just be modeled on the standard cuff types (you could consider using mittens linked to the base as well?) already included in DD if these types don't belong.

 

Another option:

 

If you were to get fancy this one could have two versions, a loosened one (like above) and a strict one (where the belt is strapped higher, hands elevated). Or one where the elbows are also linked - in general I think it's sad that we have these great harnesses but no heavy restraints used in combination with them, so it's also a consideration to introduce variants where the arm/hand restraints are 'combined' with existing harness models in some way (don't know to which extent this is possible).

Another one, something along these lines:

[Kimy]

5 hours ago, Taki17 said:

And for a different topic, I've noticed that out of the two, pretty much always available options to try and escape restraints, "struggle" and "cut" are not so much different. The sole exception being that other restraints cannot be cut with bound hands, however this does not apply to the hand restraint in question. In every other case, having "cut" and "struggle" available with unbound hands basically means having two charges for "struggle" before it goes on cooldown. This makes it sort of redundant.

 

I propose having "cut" require an actual sharp object, like any of the weapon types or a knife in the inventory to function. A few keyword checks for these items, in order to enable the availability of the "cut" option in the respective messagebox might solve it the easiest.

 

The reason why I disabled the code explicitly checking for sharp objects in the player inventory is quite simple: It's Skyrim, where even the bartenders are armed to the teeth. Is there -any- situation when the player doesn't have any sharp object in their inventory?

[Roggvir]

On 10/24/2022 at 8:36 PM, Kimy said:

Still no word about these:

 

- @Roggvir DAR patch. I don't have a final version of the patch yet.

I am very sorry, but something came up some time ago already, and i am very busy with work since.
If somebody is willing to take over this, please do, you can of course use any of the resources i posted (if that helps).
I intend to finish it myself, but i don't know yet when is that going to happen.

[Kimy]

/re: New wrist restraints: New devices are always welcome and I will gladly add them to DD, but keep in mind that wrist positions not already covered by the framework typically need new animations. As long as we haven't fully migrated to DAR, that's something to avoid, because most people are at or near the limit of what FNIS can reasonably handle anyway.

[Kimy]

1 minute ago, Roggvir said:

I am very sorry, but something came up some time ago already, and i am very busy with work since.
If somebody is willing to take over this, please do, you can of course use any of the resources i posted (if that helps).
I intend to finish it myself, but i don't know yet when is that going to happen.

 

No worries! Thanks for the update!

[Taki17]

18 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Is there -any- situation when the player doesn't have any sharp object in their inventory?

At the beginning of several alternate start scenarios, some of which start the player out deprived and downtrodden, or indeed, an escaped bound slave.

 

As a consequence of combat defeat outcomes, losing equipped weapons, weapons from the inventory getting robbed by the attackers, and naturally, the player ending up bound after the whole ordeal.

 

Also possible as interaction or mini-quest outcomes, with the same parameters as listed before.

 

And in the end, like you say, the player will often indeed have a some sharp object in their inventory, in which case the "cut" option requiring it or not does not matter, however it's the cases mentioned above that do benefit from the check being made properly. And since it's DD-based mods that offer these scenarios, where the explicit interest lies in keeping the player bound and vulnerable, to shake up the vanilla gameplay with its devious aspects. In the end, there is pretty much nothing to lose, and some to gain by adding a requirement.

 

And considering all that, if an event like this is designed around a challenege to escape from non-special restraints by whatever means, this tiny bit of  detail with an extra step of getting to the nearest dagger or dropped sword is what really makes the "cut" feature earn a spot in the escape options list. Otherwise, it's just legacy bloat and all it does is being "struggle 2".

Edited October 27, 2022 by Taki17

[audhol]

1 hour ago, BYJE137 said:

Something along these lines

 

5 minutes ago, Kimy said:

but keep in mind that wrist positions not already covered by the framework typically need new animations.

I like the look of the wrist restraints but like Kimy says its kinda tricky as you would need Idle\walk\run anims to match. Making the anims is not a problem as I could do that but there is that issue for the LE users of animation limits. The other issue is sexlab anims, I dont have the required setup to make paired anims even if limits where not an issue so although in theory I could make some wrist\neck restraints with corresponding movement animations that were applied by DAR if the caracter gets involved in some zig-a-zig-ahhh then the pose is going to break.

 

I'm not saying I'm against the idea of making something along the lines of your suggestions its just that there are lots of complications to consider.

[naaitsab]

"Realismfy" the system would imho also require it to be more demanding/involving system in it's entirety than the current RND system. Think about switching the lockpick RND to a fake door/chest lock you need to unlock with lockpicks (this is not super hard to do and kinda awesome). And struggling and cutting behind using a sequence of keys to press when the health, magic or stamina bar flashes like the Unforgiving Devices mod does but a bit less intense.  This will shift it from being a 'wait and click' system to something more involving. Which both have it's pro's and cons. 

 

The biggest problem with the knife thing is that if a user has a mod that does not add the default keywords then it's kinda broken. That's what mostly breaks reliability on certain things that users can mod. So from a combability perspective I guess it's best to keep it like it's now.

[BYJE137]

43 minutes ago, audhol said:

 

I like the look of the wrist restraints but like Kimy says its kinda tricky as you would need Idle\walk\run anims to match. Making the anims is not a problem as I could do that but there is that issue for the LE users of animation limits. The other issue is sexlab anims, I dont have the required setup to make paired anims even if limits where not an issue so although in theory I could make some wrist\neck restraints with corresponding movement animations that were applied by DAR if the caracter gets involved in some zig-a-zig-ahhh then the pose is going to break.

 

I'm not saying I'm against the idea of making something along the lines of your suggestions its just that there are lots of complications to consider.

 

 

54 minutes ago, Kimy said:

/re: New wrist restraints: New devices are always welcome and I will gladly add them to DD, but keep in mind that wrist positions not already covered by the framework typically need new animations. As long as we haven't fully migrated to DAR, that's something to avoid, because most people are at or near the limit of what FNIS can reasonably handle anyway.

@Both: No worries. I was sort of already aware introducing new devices like these would *probably* require a ton of work/handling of complex dependencies etc. ...or might not be possible at all, due to some weird constraint imposed by Skyrim which I was not aware of.
I have been really impressed with some of audhol's additions and when he added 'a request for requests' above I figured I'd add these ideas into the mix for inspiration. There are no expectations here.

Edited October 27, 2022 by BYJE137

[brdc]

Finally got in the game and had a quick look of new DD, many devices now have 3BA mode, big WOW!!

Noticed some collars, boots, ankle chains, rubber gloves are more detailed, really good.

 

But I ran into two issues:

1. some body devices from "DD equip", including catsuit, bra, harness were totally disappeared when equiped. Both happened on my PC and the maid in my own house.

In catsuit case, my body just vanished with my hands & head floating around. In bra/harness case, they didn't show up but my body were still there. 

Didn't have time for every body devices but I guess it might be the same.

I tried some normal catsuits, worked right on my 3BA body. 

Of course I built everything in BS before starting the game.

 

2. In MCM, DD's menu show properly but nothing is displayed after clicking and waiting for few minutes, while other mods menu work right.

Restarting the game didn't fix it.

This problem occurs every time the mod is reinstalled/upgrated, yes it can be right again after I did SOMETHING, but I just don't know what really make things right.

Just wait long enough (in reality time)? Reboot my computer? Adjust load order in MO? 

[kapibar]

1 hour ago, audhol said:

 

issue for the LE users of animation limits.

Not really a problem. FNIS XXL, srt crash fix and you're good to go. I don't know the specific limit with these in play, but I'm willing to bet that something else will get fucked in the game before you hit it.

[Kimy]

6 minutes ago, kapibar said:

Not really a problem. FNIS XXL, srt crash fix and you're good to go. I don't know the specific limit with these in play, but I'm willing to bet that something else will get fucked in the game before you hit it.

 

FNIS AA is using separate limits, and DD is already using a significant chunk of all available slots. We can totally add more bound animations once DD is no longer using FNIS-AA, but we haven't made the switch to DAR yet.

[audhol]

6 minutes ago, kapibar said:

Not really a problem. FNIS XXL, srt crash fix and you're good to go.

Y you LE users always talking about animation limits then? Whatever I'm definately not getting involved in LE\SE\AE discussions I think everyone would agree that DAR support solves all problems no?

 

40 minutes ago, BYJE137 said:

I figured I'd add these ideas into the mix for inspiration

Like I said I like the idea its a definate maybee and its been a looooong time since I made some animations so I've forgotten how annoying they are to do. I think the neck cuffs would make a nice set along with the nipple stretchers suggested by @Miauzi

 

progress update,

 

remade the pussypouch of the catsuit and I think I'm going to redo the brest part too so it has some roundboob compression like this,

 

Spoiler

 

I can mod the base shape without altering the nipple or underboob positions so corsets and piercings will still line up, however the chastity bra will clip with my new model.

Its not something I ever use but does anyone have an issue with me pretending it doesnt exist?

 

Anyway heres where I am up to.

 

Spoiler

 

Just the new nipple piercings changed.

DeviousSexDollLECBBE.7z

 

DeviousSexDollSEAE3BA.7z

[audhol]

9 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

was hälst Du eigentlich von meiner etwas abgedrehten Idee mit dem "lebenden" Anzug

(zumindest würde so einige Probleme mit dem Langzeit-Tragen auf biologische Weise gelöst...)

I think its something that could work as a long term gameplay mechanic Like a choice the player takes to let the suit have controll of  the character in return for its protection and power. The thing is it would have to involve some kind of progression and risk\reward not just triggering a sexlab scene every 5 minutes then play as normal inbetween. I dont think the tentacle monster from CL has a huge quest line its just get attacked then find a way to get rid of it IIRC so there may be room for a living outfit but it will require someone else that knows how to build multiple questlines to get involved and also its well outside the scope of devious devices base framework.

Edited October 27, 2022 by audhol

[ihatemykite]

1 hour ago, audhol said:

 

I like the look of the wrist restraints but like Kimy says its kinda tricky as you would need Idle\walk\run anims to match. Making the anims is not a problem as I could do that but there is that issue for the LE users of animation limits. The other issue is sexlab anims, I dont have the required setup to make paired anims even if limits where not an issue so although in theory I could make some wrist\neck restraints with corresponding movement animations that were applied by DAR if the caracter gets involved in some zig-a-zig-ahhh then the pose is going to break.

 

I'm not saying I'm against the idea of making something along the lines of your suggestions its just that there are lots of complications to consider.

That is true for devices which show hands. Devices like straitjackes/boxbinders can be added quite simply, as they use armbinder animations. So any device that hide arms is good. Only issue is that the device will behave like suit. So best would be if the device also behave like suit to some extend. Maybe some combination of armbinder/elbowbinder/boxbinder with catsuit would be cool? Somethink like this

https://reflectivedesire.com/photos/purple-rain/#photo-purple-rain-cam-damage-in-purple-latex-11

https://reflectivedesire.com/photos/adventures-with-mbot/#photo-adventures-with-mbot-mbot-in-red-latex-19

https://reflectivedesire.com/photos/adventures-with-vespa/#photo-adventures-with-vespa-vespa-in-black-latex-64

I have no idea how 3d modiling works, but I gies it could be possible to just use current catsuit mesh and merge it with new hand restrain mesh ?

2 hours ago, naaitsab said:

"Realismfy" the system would imho also require it to be more demanding/involving system in it's entirety than the current RND system. Think about switching the lockpick RND to a fake door/chest lock you need to unlock with lockpicks (this is not super hard to do and kinda awesome). And struggling and cutting behind using a sequence of keys to press when the health, magic or stamina bar flashes like the Unforgiving Devices mod does but a bit less intense.  This will shift it from being a 'wait and click' system to something more involving. Which both have it's pro's and cons. 

 

The biggest problem with the knife thing is that if a user has a mod that does not add the default keywords then it's kinda broken. That's what mostly breaks reliability on certain things that users can mod. So from a combability perspective I guess it's best to keep it like it's now.

I have no problem providing any scripts regardin the lockpick minigame (I'm not the first one who came with it anyway) if @Kimy wants this feature. But it is little more complicated to implement (event with existing scripts, as many new forms needs to be created in esp). Also, for the lockpick minigame to work best, it would require for users to have ConsoluUtil installed. Otherwise, everytime player locks the lock, it will stop the minigame if NPC see the player. Maybe there is some other way to do it, but I didn't found it.

[UnEvenSteven]

4 hours ago, Taki17 said:

And considering all that, if an event like this is designed around a challenege to escape from non-special restraints by whatever means, this tiny bit of  detail with an extra step of getting to the nearest dagger or dropped sword is what really makes the "cut" feature earn a spot in the escape options list. Otherwise, it's just legacy bloat and all it does is being "struggle 2".

 

If the feature was re-enabled perhaps it could be coded to explicitly require a dagger to cut devices. Swords, greatswords and axes would be too unwieldy (and unsafe!) to use against your character's body.

 

Take it a step further and require a certain material for the dagger to cut devices. Leather devices could only be cut by Steel or better. No Iron or Ancient Nord daggers could be used, too dull. Ebonite would, of course, require Ebony (or at least Glass) to cut those devices adding an extra layer of potential challenges.

[zarantha]

11 hours ago, 1947421196 said:

Thanks for timely advise, I'll check that mod right away.

As for the DLLs, do you mean all the selections in the fomod installer? I'm pretty sure I made all the right choices. 

I guess the log tells the same thing.

 

Well, my biggest concern and question is, by what steps can I upgrate DD properly.

Just download the new version, install, disable the old ones. Is that right or not?

Or is there "standard procedure" to make upgrate right each time?

 

Yeah, DD is loading correctly.

 

I just overwrite the old install with the new, and select replace instead of merge in MO2 so there's no trace of the old version.

Installing new, activating, and then disabling/deleting the old mod would also work

[zarantha]

8 hours ago, 1947421196 said:

Finally got in the game and had a quick look of new DD, many devices now have 3BA mode, big WOW!!

Noticed some collars, boots, ankle chains, rubber gloves are more detailed, really good.

 

But I ran into two issues:

1. some body devices from "DD equip", including catsuit, bra, harness were totally disappeared when equiped. Both happened on my PC and the maid in my own house.

In catsuit case, my body just vanished with my hands & head floating around. In bra/harness case, they didn't show up but my body were still there. 

Didn't have time for every body devices but I guess it might be the same.

I tried some normal catsuits, worked right on my 3BA body. 

Of course I built everything in BS before starting the game.

 

2. In MCM, DD's menu show properly but nothing is displayed after clicking and waiting for few minutes, while other mods menu work right.

Restarting the game didn't fix it.

This problem occurs every time the mod is reinstalled/upgrated, yes it can be right again after I did SOMETHING, but I just don't know what really make things right.

Just wait long enough (in reality time)? Reboot my computer? Adjust load order in MO? 

 

If some catsuits and other outfits are showing and some aren't you may have another mod providing the missing outfits that you haven't built the bodyslides for. In any case, missing body like that is a bodyslide building issue. Locate the bodyslide for that outfit and build only that outfit, and make sure it's outputting to the right location.

 

The MCM thing is an issue with laggy skyui on your pc. This is probably going to be the easiest way to make sure the MCM completely initializes:

 

1. Start a new game.
2. Wait 30 secs, or not at all. It's really just telling Skyrim that you MEAN it. Or so.
3. Quit to menu.

4. Load your existing save. It should show up and be functional this time.

[zarantha]

SE conversion of DD beta 9. I will finish updating the cbbe / 3ba bodyslides, including the new transparent restrictive gloves, once i'm on vacation in a few weeks. Bodyslides done, but not sanity checked. Let me know if there's bugs.

 

Mega: https://mega.nz/file/JHpTWZbT#82G-UMNuWbkkeXrFN4p6dsl59IV2HuIkJF5VdNbHQ7I

 

Gdrive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/16414Fz2jG2y9mt_G4Cst3tJPeK8-Nudf/view?usp=sharing

 

3BA bodyslides: https://mega.nz/file/dHQiFK4J#ysjV_HR5q1nuRhN2qzj6sHSGHZvywZBCpj-6w40x43A

 

CBBE SE bodyslides: https://mega.nz/file/lLIC1B7K#XisX8z1R_52J0GFSRlsbWHu55ROutXx8LBuTHlGf83I

Edited November 27, 2022 by zarantha

[kapibar]

10 hours ago, audhol said:

Y you LE users always talking about animation limits then? Whatever I'm definately not getting involved in LE\SE\AE discussions I think everyone would agree that DAR support solves all problems no?

You're asking the wrong guy, I personally never had a problem with animation limit. It's not like LE users are this cabal that meets in the abandonded castle in Romania in our black robes and the Ceremony Master opens up the gathering with a tyrade about how the animation limit is destroying society ?.
 

I personally never switched to SE because once I built my setup and made it stable, even thinking about going through the same shit all over again makes me sick to my stomach.

  

10 hours ago, Kimy said:

 

FNIS AA is using separate limits, and DD is already using a significant chunk of all available slots.

I wasn't aware that there's a separate limit. Probably because I never actually hit it.

Edited October 28, 2022 by kapibar

[audhol]

10 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

Somethink like this

IIRC the hands are all crumpled up inside the armbinder, its not an issue when they are hidden which I think is what you are saying?

 

I love the look of that black catsuit with the pink rope.

 

Ima finish this sexdoll suit first then see what I fancy making next. 

 

I am happy that people are giving ideas though, that way hopefully stuff gets made that people want to use.

[audhol]

45 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

wenn Du zu den Rücken-Bindern mehr Bild-Material brauchst (die Leute von HW-Design stellen die her)

Ohhh I love that locking zip, I'm definately going to use that.