Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[audhol]

16 minutes ago, naaitsab said:

Splitting the files like for example SD did (A. Textures, B1 Meshes CBBE, B2 Meshes UUNP, C scripts+ESM) will make it very flexible

Splitting the textures to a seperate download would give the option to make 2k or 4k versions of all the textures currently used that might be nice for those with decent PC's and higher resolutions.

 

Also if its not opening a huge can of worms, why cant DD be on nexus? Wouldnt that solve all the file hosting problems?

[naaitsab]

10 minutes ago, audhol said:

Splitting the textures to a seperate download would give the option to make 2k or 4k versions of all the textures currently used that might be nice for those with decent PC's and higher resolutions.

 

Also if its not opening a huge can of worms, why cant DD be on nexus? Wouldnt that solve all the file hosting problems?

I would do 1k and 2k as 4k is no longer noticeable above 2k and severely taxes the memory management system of the engine. But that option will then be possible indeed.

 

Nexus has moderators that don't like sexlab requirements very much (to keep a long story short), so I don't think that's an option. This would also require a permission check of all content providers as there are quite a lot that protest uploading stuff outside of this community/site.

[Kimy]

13 minutes ago, audhol said:

Splitting the textures to a seperate download would give the option to make 2k or 4k versions of all the textures currently used that might be nice for those with decent PC's and higher resolutions.

 

Also if its not opening a huge can of worms, why cant DD be on nexus? Wouldnt that solve all the file hosting problems?

 

Funnily enough, Nexus is hosting all sorts of stuff that's arguably a lot more lewd than a collection of restraining devices. It would -probably- possible to host it there, but a lot of DD's requirements are LL only, and so is pretty much any content mod using DD. It would probably very confusing to users if they had to go back and forth between multiple mod hosters just to get all the DD mods.

[CaptainJ03]

9 hours ago, naaitsab said:

Splitting the files like for example SD did (A. Textures, B1 Meshes CBBE, B2 Meshes UUNP, C scripts+ESM) will make it very flexible but will also greatly raise the chance for "I did not read the instructions and ask for help in the thread" situations. So not sure if that is an option to look into.

Sounds good to me, especially with audhol's suggestion to have 2k or 4k textures (this old potatoe can't run 4k stuff)

I only recently have a fiberglass connection - with normal DSL I woudn't have bothered with DD5, because two Gig for one mod is a bit steep, when you cannot do anything on your machine for hours because of one download.

 

9 hours ago, audhol said:

Also if its not opening a huge can of worms, why cant DD be on nexus? Wouldnt that solve all the file hosting problems?

Nexus introduced a thing called "collections" which led to a massive exodus of mods and authors. They take the right to bundle your mod with anything they fancy, and users won't even know of current development but are stuck with a mod of the release date of said collection.

[Mister X]

11 hours ago, Kimy said:

but 5.2 has so many changes over 5.1 that this approach is impractical. At this point, I might just call 5.2 version 6.0. lol

 

Dafuq? Did I really overread THAT much? I mainly saw bugfixes and a few new items integrated into 5.2, is there really so much else that's new? ?

[audhol]

10 hours ago, naaitsab said:

I would do 1k and 2k as 4k is no longer noticeable above 2k and severely taxes the memory management system of the engine.

Whilst theres not a huge difference between 2k and 4k it is noticible once you have some detail in the diffuse and normal. 4096 x 4096 is not that large a sheet of paper once you unwrap a mesh containg multiple parts onto it.

 

4k

Spoiler

 

 

2k

Spoiler

 

 

A user wouldnt notice much difference unless they zoom in or are playing on a large monitor in 4k native resolution but the option might be nice to have as the current trend for skyrim modding is the whole nex-gen vibe.

 

 

I have a moderate current PC of a ryzen 5700 and 3060ti and I'm using a collection of 1400 mods. Most texture mods are 4k and paralaxed, lots of high poly mesh replacers, loads of smp stuff and a high dyndolod and I get 60 fps most times at 1080p

 

54 minutes ago, CaptainJ03 said:

They take the right to bundle your mod with anything they fancy, and users won't even know of current development but are stuck with a mod of the release date of said collection.

Thats not quite true, Firstly having a mod included in a collection simply means you get more downloads if the collection is succsesfull. I have 5 mods on nexus and the downloads are 710, 1.2k, 1.8k, 3.2k and 19.2k I'll let you guess which one has been included in daes domain collection and has enough donation points to give me free lifetime prime membership.

 

Now if I were to update that mod the older version would become archived so the collection would still use the older version however there is a disclaimer on the download page linked by said collection that the version is outdated and no support will be given to users taking that version. I as the modder would still get the downloads count and the curator of the collection can choose to use the newer version if he or she wishes.

 

I like the system, lets say hexbolt made a collection for SLtRS collections have no issue downloading and installing mods from LL or any other site so they could simply link to an older version of DD untill they updated their mod to work with the latest version.

 

 

I take the points you guys made about hosting the DD downloads on nexus but perhaps a collection might be worth thinking about, that would insure that new users who are inexperienced got all and only the required files. You can also add optional files to a collection so for example the base setup could be CBBE 1k then there could be options to overwrite that with 2k textures or UUNP bodyslides for example.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by audhol

[Mexicola88]

I would love it if there was a collection that just completly sexes up Skyrim with all Devious Devices mods combined and working 100% stable, without bugs. Where you can play either as a slave or domme, all configurable via MCM. A few months ago i tried installing the i think it was 5.1 beta for SE, i couldn't even get the devices to really fit my chars for whatever reason. Maybe it was the skeleton, the body or this or that. It's all so confusing, most descriptions here are outdated, or lead to a dead link, then there are always a bunch of optional mods, and this and that. Something always goes wrong.

 

I just completly gave up on using DD mods, and installed a collection from the Nexus, it all worked fine without having to do anything complicated.

 

Many years ago when DD was still version 2 or 3, i had a perfectly working stable installation, but the old Nexus Mod Manager recieved an update and fucked it all up, i was so frustrated by installing mods, that i just played other games for a few years, didn't touch skyrim at all.

 

A few weeks ago i started playing Enderal: Forgotten Stories SE completly vanilla downloaded from steam even in german, that game is great, it works perfectly fine, looks good and all. Why can't it be so easy with LL mods?

 

It would be awesome if there was a collection called Devious Skyrim, that just adds all kinky stuff, makes the chars and the game world look good, adds most needed gameplay changes like crafting overhaul, maybe some custom idles and stuff.

 

I mean seriously just make CBBE curvy or whatever body the default body, give it breast and butt physics, give it better textures, add hairstyles, change the faces of all NPC's etc. replace the textures of normal things like weapons, armors etc. only add basic things to the collection, but add all Devious Mods that are combatible with each other, and make a collection out of it. Easy install via Vortex, with maybe 5-6 additional things that need to be done so it all works, but else it's just a one click installer, if ppl got a Nexus Premium account.

[audhol]

22 minutes ago, Mexicola88 said:

I would love it if there was a collection that just completly sexes up Skyrim with all Devious Devices mods combined and working 100% stable, without bugs.

There is a wabajack modlist that has DD and lots of sexlab mods on it already. I havent tried it so cant say how stable it is.

https://www.wabbajack.org/search/NEFARAM/NEFARAM

 

I have made a couple of collections before including using MCM Recorder so if there was some demand I could make a DD\SLtRS\SLS\SS++ modlist, the beauty of collections is that all the bodyslide data and fnis outputs etc can be included within the collection so all the user has to do is make a new profile on vortex, download the collection and be taken straight to the slave auction to be sold off,

I cant garantee that what gets stuck in your throat afterwards will taste like gold though!?

Edited October 11, 2022 by audhol

[Maddac]

15 hours ago, Kimy said:

Whenever there are bugfix updates that don't affect meshes, I tend to offer these as a delta patch against the respective major version, but 5.2 has so many changes over 5.1 that this approach is impractical. At this point, I might just call 5.2 version 6.0. lol

 

I could break down the download archive in multiple parts, but from experience, people tend to struggle with these, too. And most free cloud-servers other than MEGA place ridiculous limits on download rate, so I cannot use these either.

I like the idea of version 6, as theres significant changes from 5.1

[Mexicola88]

2 hours ago, audhol said:

There is a wabajack modlist that has DD and lots of sexlab mods on it already. I havent tried it so cant say how stable it is.

https://www.wabbajack.org/search/NEFARAM/NEFARAM

 

I have made a couple of collections before including using MCM Recorder so if there was some demand I could make a DD\SLtRS\SLS\SS++ modlist, the beauty of collections is that all the bodyslide data and fnis outputs etc can be included within the collection so all the user has to do is make a new profile on vortex, download the collection and be taken straight to the slave auction to be sold off,

I cant garantee that what gets stuck in your throat afterwards will taste like gold though!?

This is nice thanks, but are the new devices like catsuits that are combatible with restraints and all are in DD 5.1 already, or that stuff is only in the beta?

 

I mean especially the new stuff that you have added over the last few months.

[zarantha]

6 hours ago, Mexicola88 said:

I would love it if there was a collection that just completly sexes up Skyrim with all Devious Devices mods combined and working 100% stable, without bugs.

 

I help out on the MasterStroke wabbajack list. While bug free isn't guaranteed, because skyrim is skyrim, it does do most of the setup for you, using MCM recorder as audhol mentioned, and the dev team does work to fix bugs. This list itself is very stable. This is a lighter version of Nefaram and DnDDC (old defunct list Nefaram is based on) aimed at allowing normal playthrough while also using sexlab and devious stuff. Nefaram is going to be more hard core and focused on a fully devious playthrough.

 

Not sure which would appeal to you, but thought I'd throw it out there.

 

3 hours ago, Mexicola88 said:

This is nice thanks, but are the new devices like catsuits that are combatible with restraints and all are in DD 5.1 already, or that stuff is only in the beta?

 

I mean especially the new stuff that you have added over the last few months.

 

As long as the new stuff gets added to the formlists, it will be distributed. There's not yet a mod that calls the new stuff specifically that i'm aware of.

[Mexicola88]

Well i almost completly downloaded NEFARAM now, im at 1214/1287 mods atm, i will give it a try, gonna see if it's not my thing or not. If not i maybe try that "MasterStroke" list.

 

I just always hated getting a catsuit force equipped that clips with everything, it just looks so ugly. But im pretty sure the newer catsuits are only in 5.2 beta, NEFARAM only uses the regular 5.1 afaik.

 

Im glad i at least got 50 mbit downspeed, else it would take forever to download these lists. Yeah if NEFARAM is not my thing i will try MasterStroke.

[Kimy]

On 10/11/2022 at 2:30 AM, Mexicola88 said:

It would be awesome if there was a collection called Devious Skyrim, that just adds all kinky stuff, makes the chars and the game world look good, adds most needed gameplay changes like crafting overhaul, maybe some custom idles and stuff.

 

Mod collections have been debated up and down. The biggest problem aside from permissions is that tossing together content made by different people using different update cycles, that's not necessarily meant to be compatible is going to create a complete support nightmare. Not even all DD mods are going to work well together. Some do the same kind of thing, just different. Some outright clash with others. Some won't get updated anymore and will break with a new framework version etc. In the end, it's just not a good idea, unless somebody is going to turn such a collection into a full-time job or something close to it. It's usually smarter to publish lists such as https://www.loverslab.com/topic/157040-devious-skyrim-v20/ where people can look for mods they like and install them from there.

 

[Mexicola88]

That NEFARAM modlist that i installed works pretty well but it "only" uses DD 5.1. But now i also downloaded and installed that Masterstroke modlist, because that uses DD 5.2 Beta 7.

 

I had the hope that catsuits would stop clipping with restrictive devices well the corset, collar, boots and gloves.

 

I saw that picture on page 176.

 

Yes this is not a screenshot from ingame, but well i thought it would look like this ingame, i could have lived with the small clipping at the neck, if both the restrictive devices and catsuit have the same color, this lil bit of clipping would barely be noticeable.

 

But now i tried that out ingame with 5.2 Beta 7 and the clipping is much worse for me.

I also used the weight slider, but that doesn't change anything.

 

Now my question, is that normal that it clips or it shouldn't?

 

And another question can't you modders just create a new catsuit based on the Hobble Dress, with it's meshes and textures, and just extend it so it also covers the arms and legs and boobs? I mean just remove the "skirt" part of it, and yeah turn it into a catsuit. Maybe with optional cleavage, and openings in the crotch and at the butt?

 

Or would that be an impossible thing to do? Or maybe create a piece of clothing that only covers the parts that are not covered by the restrictive devices. Yeah sure it would look weird without the restrictive devices, but yeah it should only be weared with them.

[Zaflis]

3 hours ago, Kimy said:

The biggest problem aside from permissions is that tossing together content made by different people using different update cycles, that's not necessarily meant to be compatible is going to create a complete support nightmare. Not even all DD mods are going to work well together. Some do the same kind of thing, just different. Some outright clash with others. Some won't get updated anymore and will break with a new framework version etc. In the end, it's just not a good idea, unless somebody is going to turn such a collection into a full-time job or something close to it. It's usually smarter to publish lists such as https://www.loverslab.com/topic/157040-devious-skyrim-v20/ where people can look for mods they like and install them from there.

Unless i'm misunderstanding something, a mod collection refers to each mod by only specific version. That's why Nexus has responsibility to archive all old versions of mods to be available for collections. So there can't be a situation where 1 mod updates and breaks a bunch of others. The pack creator has to test that his specific set works with those versions he decides. Ofc there may be issues if you add something else on top of the collection, or go forcefully updating the mods... Then it's on the player to get the matching versions for all mods, but still none of collection maker's buisness ?

[zarantha]

7 hours ago, Mexicola88 said:

Now my question, is that normal that it clips or it shouldn't?

 

Yes, it's normal clipping. It's a lot of work to conform the outfits all by themselves, and i had to redo most of them myself for CBBE SE and then redo what was done for 3BA. Roggvir helped too, and taught me some new tricks. But doing mashups to see what clips when combined just wasn't in the cards.

 

I am working through the bodyslides again, but am pretty much burned out on bodyslides so haven't finished updating them so that things don't clip so badly with the catsuit. I believe CBBE is done, I just need to go through 3BA.

 

(I have a spreadsheet to track this - that's how much there is. With the extras I had to do to accommodate flaky SMP installs, there's 260 outfits... just for CBBE. 3BA is not much less, although CBBE is reused where possible.)

Edited October 15, 2022 by zarantha

[audhol]

9 hours ago, Mexicola88 said:

But now i tried that out ingame with 5.2 Beta 7 and the clipping is much worse for me.

 

2 hours ago, zarantha said:

Yes, it's normal clipping. It's a lot of work to conform the outfits all by themselves,

The issue is that there would have to be multiple versions of each items. For example cuffs should be tight around the part of the body there attached too but then if that part also has a n item already equipped then the cuffs would clip. The only way I could think to improve the clipping of restrictive items when the catsuit is worn is to increase the thickness of the mesh to hide any issues but that also takes away from the aesthetic of said item, unless its possible to script a rendered item swap on equip of said catsuit?

[El_Duderino]

Howdy all, Hi @Kimy,

 

Long time no speak, hope you're all well. I skimmed over the past few pages and it seems that DD is on course for for what may be its most comprehensive update in quite some time, which is quite exciting to see.

 

I've spent some time in Skyrim lately and that inspired me to put together a new and arguably much better version of my "rubber squeak" sounds, which I've uploaded here to for you to do with as you like. Or not, as the case might be.

 

New files are attached below. This is now finally the slushy-squishy-slappy sound of oiled latex! No more dry rubber/leather creaking like before.

 

A few words of warning:

 

- This WILL NOT work as a straight replacement for the old sound samples, even though the file names are the same. The new sound samples are much longer (up to 6 seconds) whereas the originals were under 1s. A tweak to the (magic effect?) script that fires the sounds will be needed to adjust the minimum frequency of the audio playback accordingly (i.e. to at least 6 seconds), otherwise the sounds will play on top of each other which just causes noise. I'm afraid I have to leave the scripting tweaks to somebody else since it's been years that I've dabbled with Papyros and was never any good at it to begin with.

 

- The new sounds are likely a bit more obtrusive than the original "creaking" noises. Some might find them annoying when wearing their catsuit for a long time.

 

- The new sounds are still not realistic. While they are recordings of actual latex, those are all sounds that in reality you would basically only hear when un-/dressing or when something grippy catches on it but not when simply moving in a tight fitting latex garment. But maybe the over-the-top sounds can in a way compensate for the latex touch and smell that we don't get to experience in Skyrim. ?

rubbersqueak.zip

Edited October 15, 2022 by El_Duderino

[Taki17]

I've got another contribution to make, continuing with the series of small-ish fixes:

 

In this package, the following is contained:

 

Everything from the previous two iterations:

• Correcting inventory device descriptions - eliminating typos, correcting mistakes and punctuation, assigning a description where missing, rephrasing text where needed
• Same as above, but for message popups accross all plugins
• Created and assigned world models for several transparent items that lacked them
• Added the correct rope world models for rope restraints that had red leather models assigned
• Brought over two world models that were missing from the archive, since their file paths were still pointing to a ZAP directory. Also assigned them to the appropriate shackles.
• Assigned the correct world model to the breast yoke
• Solved the invisible ringed slave boots for UUNP by including a 0 weight version of the mesh
• Fixed the elbow shackles not being able to be unequipped due to an incorrectly assigned message popup and keyword checks

New in this one:

• Continued corrections to spelling, punctuation and clarity of messages and descriptions
• Assigned (semi) suitable struggle animations to every device that lacked one, except for the petsuits since I couldn't find any. Inspired by what @Code Serpent has done previously for their own DD struggle animation patch.
• Removed an unused effect from the "Pierced Nipples" perk that modified spell cost by exactly 0.0 points
• Now all slave harnesses use restraint keys, and all chastity harnesses use chastity keys. Previously, slave harnesses used either chastity or restraint keys, inconsistently. Also assigned the correct messages on device inspection.
• Assigned the correct file path for the AA record for the "simple yoke", thus making it appear correctly. NOTE: The "simple yoke" looks and functions exactly like the "steel yoke", thus effectively making it a redundant item. Might consider removing it altogether.
• Added the wooden yoke to the yoke leveled list
• Included a new MCM logo for DD, pretty much just omitting the "Integration" subtitle from it
• Assigned the new ground models for the zipsuit and the matching heels, created by @audhol

further small DD fixes continued.7z

 

Issues noted, but unresolved:

In zadEventTightBra.psc, line 17: This message has a superflous "is".

libs.NotifyPlayer("Your Chastity Bra is uncomfortably restricts your movements.")

 

Since all DD modules come bundled together, checks like the following in the MCM are now most likely redundant (line 409):

if (Game.GetModByName("Devious Devices - Expansion.esm") > 0) ; DDx is present
	bootsSlowdownToggleOID = AddToggleOption("Boots Slowdown Effect", bootsSlowdownToggle)
	mittensDropToggleOID = AddToggleOption("Hardcore Bondage Mittens", mittensDropToggle)
	HobbleSkirtSpeedDebuffOID = AddSliderOption("Hobble Skirt Debuff Strength", HobbleSkirtSpeedDebuff, "{0}")
Else

 

Other:

I get why notifying the player of the food removal functionality of the gag effect is important, however the large messagebox gets a wee bit disrupting when you have to click it every time a gag is applied on the player. Consider making it a notification instead, or have an option to disable tutorial messages like this?

Edited October 15, 2022 by Taki17

[naaitsab]

5 hours ago, El_Duderino said:

- The new sounds are still not realistic. While they are recordings of actual latex, those are all sounds that in reality you would basically only hear when un-/dressing or when something grippy catches on it but not when simply moving in a tight fitting latex garment. But maybe the over-the-top sounds can in a way compensate for the latex touch and smell that we don't get to experience in Skyrim. ?

There are already projects to link real Estim and vibrate devices to DD. So next level is a gasmask smellbox filled with rubber with a 3-way valve controlled by the type of outfit? ?

 

Most realistically would be to play during, (un)equip, struggle events, SL scenes and when layering so for example a corset over a catsuit by using conditions on the magic effect. 

Outside of gasmask wearing constant sounds might be a bit annoying indeed, so perhaps just add a random chance so it does not play all the time?

[zarantha]

9 hours ago, audhol said:

 

The issue is that there would have to be multiple versions of each items. For example cuffs should be tight around the part of the body there attached too but then if that part also has a n item already equipped then the cuffs would clip. The only way I could think to improve the clipping of restrictive items when the catsuit is worn is to increase the thickness of the mesh to hide any issues but that also takes away from the aesthetic of said item, unless its possible to script a rendered item swap on equip of said catsuit?

 

This is true, but where the clipping is worst is usually not at the cuffs, but below them. The way I'm compensating is to slightly increase the volume to cover those parts. It will be at the expense of making them not as tight fitting overall, but it seems the clipping  is more annoying to the community than how tight/loose it's fitting. Object swapping I'll leave to others. I'm not aware of a way to do that for the same item when worn with other items other than by script.

[CaptainJ03]

53 minutes ago, zarantha said:

 

This is true, but where the clipping is worst is usually not at the cuffs, but below them. The way I'm compensating is to slightly increase the volume to cover those parts. It will be at the expense of making them not as tight fitting overall, but it seems the clipping  is more annoying to the community than how tight/loose it's fitting.

Uhmm, no. I am not using the new meshes for the gloves because they look as if I got a broken wrist with a cast underneath.

Yes, clipping annoys me too, but I'd rather pass on wearing different colours than on having a tight fit.

[ClaymoreZ]

Hello to everyone! Want to make custom plugs use devious devices scripts so it would make arousal increase and send messages about status and etc. Where do I begin? I wonder if this can be achieved by simply adding keywords to esp file.

[audhol]

2 hours ago, zarantha said:

This is true, but where the clipping is worst is usually not at the cuffs, but below them. The way I'm compensating is to slightly increase the volume to cover those parts. It will be at the expense of making them not as tight fitting overall, but it seems the clipping  is more annoying to the community than how tight/loose it's fitting. Object swapping I'll leave to others. I'm not aware of a way to do that for the same item when worn with other items other than by script.

I think that between the comments of @Mexicola88 and @CaptainJ03 your job is more or less imposible. Where one user finds clipping unacceptable the other finds increased volume to be equally unacceptable. I wonder if there is not a solution to be found in using alternative texture sets?

 

DD is aware of equiped items right so what if when an item is equipped a check is done to see what items are already in place, the catsuit could have alternate texture sets that have an alpha value of 0 in the areas of the boots and gloves for example. That way there would be no need to inflate the mesh because any clipping would be invisible.

[zarantha]

5 minutes ago, audhol said:

I think that between the comments of @Mexicola88 and @CaptainJ03 your job is more or less imposible. Where one user finds clipping unacceptable the other finds increased volume to be equally unacceptable. I wonder if there is not a solution to be found in using alternative texture sets?

 

DD is aware of equiped items right so what if when an item is equipped a check is done to see what items are already in place, the catsuit could have alternate texture sets that have an alpha value of 0 in the areas of the boots and gloves for example. That way there would be no need to inflate the mesh because any clipping would be invisible.

 

the catsuit is all one piece, so alternative texture sets would apply to the whole thing. it's beyond my skill to chop it up so they'd be separate pieces that could have different textures.

 

2 hours ago, CaptainJ03 said:

Uhmm, no. I am not using the new meshes for the gloves because they look as if I got a broken wrist with a cast underneath.

Yes, clipping annoys me too, but I'd rather pass on wearing different colours than on having a tight fit.

 

Wrists weren't one of the areas inflated, it's usually the upper arm or upper thigh, and the neck. the wrists are rather large, i agree. i think when i tried to shrink them though, the clipping was worse, even by themselves, just because of the animations. 

 

I wish we could pass on wearing different colors, but the only time i wear these things, it's a trap and i get different random colors than what was equipped on a previous trap. If you're wearing them by choice, then yes, you can have a full coordinated set.