Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[incrediblysecure]

On 9/7/2022 at 5:38 AM, ihatemykite said:

If someone have any idea or issue with expressions, please let me know and I will give it a look.

Download: Devious Expressions 2.1.zip

 

 

 

at some point i'm likely to update a mod to enable you to save custom jsons from within the game for this. would it make sense to split player / npc handling by default to use different arrays? in my head, i imagine that people might use weird custom races while having mostly normal npcs.

 

[Mister X]

19 hours ago, Taki17 said:

Another thing I noticed when looking at descriptions was the somewhat inconsistent format of device names. I'm thinking about unifying them, however I'm yet to decide which format should I go with. Maybe you people can help me decide.

 

Currently, we got two distinct naming conventions:

 <color> <material> <item type> (item attribute) (extra item attribute) - example: Black Leather Gag (Ball) (Harness)

and

<color> <material> <item attribute> <item type>, <extra item attribute> - example: Red Leather Restrictive Chastity Corset, Open

 

I think both are viable, and have their own benefits when it comes to sorting as well, however I'd much rather have all device names conforming to the same format, for the sake of consistency.

 

The first format is useful if you want your items organized by color + material first, then by the item type. By this, all white ebonite gags will be grouped together in the inventory, for example. Might be easier to match it with a regex as well, if that's ever needed.

 

The second format looks more natural and is useful if you want items of a "set" to be grouped together in the inventory list, for example all parts of the red leather restrictive set will be grouped together.

 

So my question is - which one would you prefer? Think of a scenario like walking into Laura's Bondage Shop and asking the shopkeeper to look at the items, which default sorting would give you a more logical and transparent view of items and their categories?

 

I see  what's difficult to decide about that. The more "immersive" version would be the second one. It's more fluent to read as well, which is more important to me.

I don't know how other people see it, but in the rare occasions where I get a chance to decide what devices my girl has to wear, it's easier when they're packed by "set", as this then has the consistent look I prefer.

 

So for me, I'd say version 2 suits me better. Now let's see other opinions ^^

[audhol]

@Taki17

 

TransparentGloves.7z

 

All versions,

LE stuff untested IIRC the LE CBBE body is only different from the SE CBBE body around the brests so it should be fine for gloves

BHUNP SE and UUNP LE are identical shape.

Also I didnt bother downloading DD 5.2 LE so I dont know the fomod directories, I just added a data folder inside each body folder, also you might have to change the osp and xml names for LE.

[ihatemykite]

14 hours ago, incrediblysecure said:

 

 

at some point i'm likely to update a mod to enable you to save custom jsons from within the game for this. would it make sense to split player / npc handling by default to use different arrays? in my head, i imagine that people might use weird custom races while having mostly normal npcs.

 

Player gag expression can be changed with the factions to fit the currently used race/body/preset/etc. I was thinking about extending the json to store expressions based on name, so for example, I can add specific gag expressions only for certain NPC or for player preset with certain name.

[Kimy]

On 9/9/2022 at 9:21 PM, Zenagia said:

My "Zip-Binder" is still a W.I.P. - BUT!, it's coming along nicely.

 

 

My thanks to @audhol for his guidance. Here is what's still on the list for it.

- A new zipper. The current zipper that you see there was salvaged from the catsuit, and in my opinion, looks "mushy". The texture is smeared out. It works fine on the catsuit because of where it is and there is usually other gear on top of it. But as an armbinder, it's the "top layer" and what you see. So, I am currently in the process of building a new custom mesh piece to slot in place between the leather flaps with a new zipper texture I have generated.
- Add a cuff around the wrists? I'm on the fence on this one - what do you guys think?

- Clean up the clipping.

- Correct the shading and normal maps.

- Color variants: Black, red, white, purple, blue & pink - matte & ebonite.

 

This has certainly been a learning curve for me. Right now, I have it as just an overwrite of the standard elbowbinder (don't worry, I made backups!). I'll make an .esp when I'm done for people to play with. I have a suspicion the weights are going to be goofy and I'll need some testing on it. I run a very customized frame for my girl, so stock stuff doesn't always fit right (What? I like tits on a stick. Fight me.)

I'll post here with updates as they come. If this goes over well, I'll try my hand at more stuff. This has been fun!

 

Looks fantastic so far! I am looking forward to the finished model!

 

[Kimy]

On 9/10/2022 at 5:07 AM, audhol said:

@Taki17

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

SE CBBE and 3ba versions done

Added the bodyslides for both to the relevant slider sets and slider groups 

Added the AA, script instance and inventory to the 5.2 beta ESM

Added relevant ground model

Packed in same format as the fomod so you can just copy it over.

 

Will now work on the uunp version and CBBE LE

 

Woot! Thank you!

 

On 9/10/2022 at 5:07 AM, audhol said:

 

Insidentaly is it intentional that all the other transparent items use the black ebonite for their _go? I sdtarted to replace some then thought maybe there was a reason behind it, let me know if you want me to continue and repolace them all with matching transparent _go's.

 

I think the reason is called "Oversight by Kimy"

 

[zarantha]

 

Straitjacket Catsuit (Open) has the keyword for exposed breasts, but it's actually the topless one that is exposed. open is straitjacket open, catsuit exposed.

The topless version is also missing the exposed breasts keyword.
Probably for all variants, although i only spot checked red as well.

 

Spoiler

 

[Zenagia]

3 hours ago, Kimy said:

 

Looks fantastic so far! I am looking forward to the finished model!

 

 

Thanks Kimy, I appreciate the support.

UPDATE: problem solved, in fact, there never was one. OS was just being cranky and needed to be put down for a nap. Just needed to reboot the program. Now I am just progressing past the red ! of death.

 

Right now, I'm gnashing my teeth at the screen due to a stubborn texture and UV issue. I've laid the whole chain out in my discord if you are curious enough to see, but the TL:DR is that everything looks good in preview until I press that last [ ok ] box then *poof*, the texture spins like 160* on it's side, I open UV editor in outfit studio, and I see nothing wrong in there. But, what's odd, is the normal map sits how it should... it's only the diffuse texture that's screwed.

I've never had a texture do this to me before and it's... really strange.

If you want to see my documentation trail, (or anyone else) and you might have solution as to -why-, send me a DM and I can get you an invite to my discord channel.

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Zenagia
Outfit studio is stupid...

[someuselessuser]

EDIT: Another file without container activation filter.

 

Some personal tweaks I figured I could share. Maybe could be useful.

Panel gag has blocking dialogue if it is plugged and plug can't be removed depenging on restraints worn.

Noisy things give a sneak debuff.

Stricter activation filter depending on restraints worn. For example can't grab and drag stuff or harvest flower while wearing mittens or armbinder, but can with yoke unless wearing mittens. Can't use crafting furniture with most restraints but mittnes and straitjacket won't prevent sitting in a chair. Straitjacket and armbinder will prevent opening containers.

 

All is done with three perks added to existing object effects via magic effects so mod added items should automatically work. Pet suit and yoke+mittens have same activation filter as armbinder. One dialogue condition and one pop-up message is edited for panel gag.

 

Plugin is form 44 if it matters.

DD Tweaks.7z

DD Tweaks Edit.7z

Edited September 12, 2022 by someuselessuser
Added file

[serranna]

7 hours ago, someuselessuser said:

Straitjacket and armbinder will prevent opening containers.

 

I don't like this. I never like the idea of not being able to open containers, especially considering escaping an armbinder can potentially be dependent on rummaging through said containers in the hope of triggering the sharp objects event which will allow an escape. Similarly I keep some keys safely tucked away in my home and if I'm wearing a straitjacket that means I can't access them.

 

[Taki17]

9 hours ago, someuselessuser said:

Straitjacket and armbinder will prevent opening containers.

This is iffy. There are several quest mods and mod features out there that rely on this being possible, and while I fundamentally agree that it makes sense to prevent activation, the current drawbacks and consequences of this change outweigh the realism aspect.

[naaitsab]

It could be adapted to a MCM setting for best of both worlds. 

-Off

-Locked containers/doors only

-Always

As it's dependent on a set of conditions already it would be easy to setup.

 

I also did some modifications myself to prevent looting a corpse, pickpocketing or opening locked doors when wearing a straitjacket or armbinder. I guess this could also be added with the above system as a personal enable/disable setting?

The pickpocket could also be extended to yokes as yeah not going to picking any pockets with that  

 

I can make a ESP with the settings for the looting and pickpocket if desired.

[someuselessuser]

9 hours ago, serranna said:

 

I don't like this. I never like the idea of not being able to open containers, especially considering escaping an armbinder can potentially be dependent on rummaging through said containers in the hope of triggering the sharp objects event which will allow an escape. Similarly I keep some keys safely tucked away in my home and if I'm wearing a straitjacket that means I can't access them.

 

 

8 hours ago, Taki17 said:

This is iffy. There are several quest mods and mod features out there that rely on this being possible, and while I fundamentally agree that it makes sense to prevent activation, the current drawbacks and consequences of this change outweigh the realism aspect.

Edited post with new esp but the one below is probably better.

 

5 hours ago, naaitsab said:

It could be adapted to a MCM setting for best of both worlds. 

-Off

-Locked containers/doors only

-Always

As it's dependent on a set of conditions already it would be easy to setup.

 

I also did some modifications myself to prevent looting a corpse, pickpocketing or opening locked doors when wearing a straitjacket or armbinder. I guess this could also be added with the above system as a personal enable/disable setting?

The pickpocket could also be extended to yokes as yeah not going to picking any pockets with that  

 

I can make a ESP with the settings for the looting and pickpocket if desired.

 

I don't use creation kit and made this thing in xedit so if that happens it will be done by someone other than me. It is possible possible to skip the mcm thing and use console to set FancyGlobalName to 0/1 so I might just do that.

Devious Devices already has a picppocket/lockpicking debuff but value is set to 0 in object effects. I increased them a bit but there is a better way. It has to be done with a perk and it might need a patch depending on perk mod used. I don't have the file now, but in an older, clunkier version of this I believe I reduced pickpocket chance to 0 with Mod Pickpocket Chance perk effect entry point.

How do you filter dead actors? GetDead or did I missing something?

Doors were left out because mittens/armbinder/straitjacket already removes lockpicks and simply knock mod exists.

EDIT before I post because I got distracted with xedit: New esp by default doesn't block containers. Right now there aren't fine tuned controls, "set ddt_hardcore to 1"  should turn on container filtering, rest is always on. Mittens by themselves don't block containers even if hardcore mode is on but I left the perk and magic effect in esp if anyone needs it.. I didn't test this because right now I'm trying similar things with Toys Framework, but even if I butchered some condition it should be a quick fix in xedit.
Permissions are all open so feel free to improve or make it worse in any way you wish.

DD Tweaks but fancy.7z

[naaitsab]

27 minutes ago, someuselessuser said:

 

Edited post with new esp but the one below is probably better.

 

 

I don't use creation kit and made this thing in xedit so if that happens it will be done by someone other than me. It is possible possible to skip the mcm thing and use console to set FancyGlobalName to 0/1 so I might just do that.

Devious Devices already has a picppocket/lockpicking debuff but value is set to 0 in object effects. I increased them a bit but there is a better way. It has to be done with a perk and it might need a patch depending on perk mod used. I don't have the file now, but in an older, clunkier version of this I believe I reduced pickpocket chance to 0 with Mod Pickpocket Chance perk effect entry point.

How do you filter dead actors? GetDead or did I missing something?

Doors were left out because mittens/armbinder/straitjacket already removes lockpicks and simply knock mod exists.

EDIT before I post because I got distracted with xedit: New esp by default doesn't block containers. Right now there aren't fine tuned controls, "set ddt_hardcore to 1"  should turn on container filtering, rest is always on. Mittens by themselves don't block containers even if hardcore mode is on but I left the perk and magic effect in esp if anyone needs it.. I didn't test this because right now I'm trying similar things with Toys Framework, but even if I butchered some condition it should be a quick fix in xedit.
Permissions are all open so feel free to improve or make it worse in any way you wish.

DD Tweaks but fancy.7z 2.11 kB · 0 downloads

The MCM can either update the global or have the condition point to a script  variable. 

 

I posted the pickpocket thing here with some screenshots.  It's GetDead that can be added as another check.

 

 

 

[Kimy]

11 hours ago, serranna said:

 

I don't like this. I never like the idea of not being able to open containers, especially considering escaping an armbinder can potentially be dependent on rummaging through said containers in the hope of triggering the sharp objects event which will allow an escape. Similarly I keep some keys safely tucked away in my home and if I'm wearing a straitjacket that means I can't access them.

 

 

Yes, there is no way this can go in, for reasons stated. I can see just too many problems this could and would cause. I am also not a fan of having to rely on the user having certain MCM settings set in a certain way NOT to break content. Having full inventory access when wearing an armbinder or SJ is admittedly not super-realistic, but we have to make certain compromises when adding bondage content to a game not designed for it, and this isn't the only one.

[naaitsab]

44 minutes ago, Kimy said:

 

Yes, there is no way this can go in, for reasons stated. I can see just too many problems this could and would cause. I am also not a fan of having to rely on the user having certain MCM settings set in a certain way NOT to break content. Having full inventory access when wearing an armbinder or SJ is admittedly not super-realistic, but we have to make certain compromises when adding bondage content to a game not designed for it, and this isn't the only one.

One way to keep the default experience (aka users who don't take the time to look at and customize the MCM) compatible is to just set the default to off. Setting it on per default is indeed a bad idea.

It's a minor change to the code and requires a modification to an already existing perk. But it will make it a lot more hardcore/realistic of an experience users can set (or not) it to that by their own will. So with this in mind I can't see why it should pose a problem as if you don't look in the MCM you wouldn't even know it's there.

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by naaitsab

[ChandraArgentis]

On 9/9/2022 at 11:21 PM, Zenagia said:

- Add a cuff around the wrists? I'm on the fence on this one - what do you guys think?

 

As a variant perhaps?  Cuffs around the wrists as a "high security" variant.  Maybe in the form of a locking leather strap?

[someuselessuser]

@naaitsab I added dead body check. Now ddt_hardcore global controls container and dead body stuff. By default it is set to 0 which is off. Skyrim treating "AND" and "OR" different is throwing me off and I don't want to mess it up then share it without testing it so I left pickpocket thing out. Post the one youı have or modify this if you want.

DD Tweaks.7z

[Zenagia]

@Kimy Something I've been meaning to bring up for a while now. Not sure if anyone else has noticed this. For the last update or two, when in an armbinder, SJ or any other form of arm restraint - when your girl would interact with world objects such as chests and doors, they would just... operate via an "invisible force". I've noticed since the recent update or two that she will reach out through the restriant to interact before returning to the restraint idle.

I'm not sure if this is intentional or not - but it looks like a glitch. I've done a few re-installs since then (for various unrelated reasons), re-ran FNIS, and all the usual suspects and the issue persists. It's just an immersion breaking thing and it's a touch annoying and I wanted to bring it to your attention. Not sure if anyone else is experiencing this, or if you are already aware of it.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Zenagia

[Zenagia]

6 hours ago, ChandraArgentis said:

 

As a variant perhaps?  Cuffs around the wrists as a "high security" variant.  Maybe in the form of a locking leather strap?

Perhaps... While I'm not ruling that out, I'm leary of creating 10,000 variants (between the strap/lock/fastener/color combinations) as I don't want to further bloat an already massive closet so-to-speak.

I've been playing with the idea of making this elbowbinder 100% unique. In that, it is not used as a 'common item' like the others. But rather, a specific named one-of-a-kind item that does not have differently colored duplicates. Perhaps it can replace the aptly named 'Inescapable Armbinder' - which is actually part of what drove me to create this. I've also played with the idea of tossing out the shoulder and chest straps all together and have it fasten via a custom collar with a singal strap at the back. Really give it a unique appearance and then have it used in a quest. But, that would be a later discussion with @Kimy.

Perhaps what I do is I make my standard zippered armbinder as pictured above, in the range of familiar colors. Then I make a Unique black-only variant that is visually distint as "high security"?

Edited September 13, 2022 by Zenagia

[serranna]

1 hour ago, Zenagia said:

Perhaps it can replace the aptly named 'Inescapable Armbinder'

 

Just like to throw my opinion out there.

 

Though I really like the way this device looks, I'm much more a fan of armbinders than elbowbinders, and would not particularly care for any elbowbinder variant to replace an armbinder variant. Having said that I love the idea of an armbinder variant of this device and would totally be in favor of incorporating it into DCL in some degree to add more variety.

[Zenagia]

3 hours ago, serranna said:

 

Just like to throw my opinion out there.

 

Though I really like the way this device looks, I'm much more a fan of armbinders than elbowbinders, and would not particularly care for any elbowbinder variant to replace an armbinder variant. Having said that I love the idea of an armbinder variant of this device and would totally be in favor of incorporating it into DCL in some degree to add more variety.

 

Firstly, I appreciate that you like it's look. It's the first time I've done anything like this.

You and I are then completely opposite. I can not stand the look of "arm bags". I guess it's all a matter of preference. But in the end, I'm just creating an asset and it's up to the mod creator to decide ultimatly what to do with it.

[serranna]

19 minutes ago, Zenagia said:

You and I are then completely opposite. I can not stand the look of "arm bags".

 

I can understand that. To me the elbowbinder looks too tight and uncomfortable to the point of it being painful (though ironically I really like the look of the rope armbinder). Too me, even though the standard armbinder is looser, it still looks restrictive enough to me and I just think it looks prettier.

 

I like them both, I just have a clear preference.

[Taki17]

On 9/10/2022 at 2:14 PM, Taki17 said:

Another thing I noticed when looking at descriptions was the somewhat inconsistent format of device names. I'm thinking about unifying them, however I'm yet to decide which format should I go with. Maybe you people can help me decide.

 

Currently, we got two distinct naming conventions:

 <color> <material> <item type> (item attribute) (extra item attribute) - example: Black Leather Gag (Ball) (Harness)

and

<color> <material> <item attribute> <item type>, <extra item attribute> - example: Red Leather Restrictive Chastity Corset, Open

 

I think both are viable, and have their own benefits when it comes to sorting as well, however I'd much rather have all device names conforming to the same format, for the sake of consistency.

 

The first format is useful if you want your items organized by color + material first, then by the item type. By this, all white ebonite gags will be grouped together in the inventory, for example. Might be easier to match it with a regex as well, if that's ever needed.

 

The second format looks more natural and is useful if you want items of a "set" to be grouped together in the inventory list, for example all parts of the red leather restrictive set will be grouped together.

 

So my question is - which one would you prefer? Think of a scenario like walking into Laura's Bondage Shop and asking the shopkeeper to look at the items, which default sorting would give you a more logical and transparent view of items and their categories?

I'd still love to hear your inputs on this matter, if anyone's got any. Unifying the DD item names would be a noticeable improvement I think.

[audhol]

5 minutes ago, Taki17 said:

I'd still love to hear your inputs on this matter,

I think what should be decided is the use case for renaming. I mean in terms of modders its kinda irrelevent how you unify them (I do agree unifying them is a good idea) as once the structure is understood then adding groups of DD's to a mod is easy and also anyone wanting to make new items already has the syntax set out.

 

So for the user what is the benefit? 

 

Are you considering simply how they are presented in the item menu?

 

Your example of Lauras shop,

So if I was a player entering lauras shop and wanted to buy something (after having a sneaky-peaky at the tough guards arse without her seeing cause shes a bit scary)

I would want the item type to be displayed first I.E.

Gag Ball Harness Black Leather so all gags would be together first then the attachment followed by the style and colour and material last.

Although this looks terrible gramatically IMO that is the order that someone would look for the item they wanted to buy or indeed search for in AIM for example.