HDT SMP for SSE?

[Vyxenne]

22 hours ago, Tiress said:

you might be right [about reverting the game and SKSE-related mods]. I didn't go as far as to downgrade the game version, it might be worth a try...to at least know, I won't play on 1.5.23.

"Reverting" is not synonymous with "downgrading." "Newer" does not necessarily mean "better," especially in SSE's case where Bethesda is shoving Console-Player crapware-marketing "updates" that do nothing to improve the actual game onto us PC players who couldn't care less about Creation Club paid mods.

 

It is not a "downgrade" to change from a version that doesn't work well (considering all version-sensitive mods such as SMP) to a version that works perfectly. I recommended version 1.5.39 because it (and the SKSE-version-sensitive mods it supports) seems to be more trouble-free than 1.5.50 OR 1.5.53.

 

And finally, the only logical reason "not to play on 1.5.23" is that the version of Racemenu for SKSE64 2.0.6 doesn't support overlays- there are very few other mods that actually offer additional features for their later versions after 1.5.23. In the case of SexLab, they actually removed a feature I can't live without - HDT-HH offset removal - so for me it would be a "downgrade" to update my game and SexLab Framework.

 

Other than Racemenu Overlays and SexLab HDT-HH offset removal, if I invited you to my house and hid the SSE version notice as SSE boots you would not be able to distinguish whether you were playing 1.5.23 or a later version, much less which later version you might be playing, without a ton of detective work.

 

Why would a rational person want to go through the hassle of not being able to play the game for 2 weeks or more while various mod authors update their mods, then reinstalling all SKSE-dependent DLL mods (and others) just because Bethesda has discovered 3 new console players who haven't bought any of their crapware yet... why would that rational person spend literally hours if not days putting Humpty-Dumpty together again, only to end up with exactly the same game features - no improvement whatsoever, or some lame, trivial improvement like "repositioned the bridle on the left side of Imperial Horse Bridles"  - and possibly have to deal with broken new versions of mods and/or new undiscovered mod conflicts?

 

1.5.23 just works. So does 1.5.39. The others, not so much- as you yourself have noted with your lagging-behind-your-hands weapons. And yes, I realize that your levitating weapons may have nothing whatsoever to do with game or SKSE64 versions and that reverting your game at this point is a shot in the dark. Still, as you said, it may have some value, especially since you have tried everything else.

[Tiress]

"Reverting" is the word I couldn't remember, thank you!

 

It was poorly chosen word, but I wouldn't say it's not a downgrade in general either. It goes down to what you want in the end. I am in the middle of testing my new mod setup and .NET Script Framework, which is only for version 1.5.53 and higher, proven to be essential in solving random crashes. For me it's more worth having a tool that helps me solve crashes rather than having SMP working right. Especially since there is reasonable alternative - CBPC.

[R246]

13 hours ago, Tiress said:

"Reverting" is the word I couldn't remember, thank you!

 

It was poorly chosen word, but I wouldn't say it's not a downgrade in general either. It goes down to what you want in the end. I am in the middle of testing my new mod setup and .NET Script Framework, which is only for version 1.5.53 and higher, proven to be essential in solving random crashes. For me it's more worth having a tool that helps me solve crashes rather than having SMP working right. Especially since there is reasonable alternative - CBPC.

I'm using 1.5.53 with SKSE64 2.0.10 and I don't see any weapon weirdness with SMP. I don't update the game until I'm good and ready, I was still on 1.5.23 last month, didn't see any weapon weirdness with that either. I would suggest there's a little more to it than SMP being broken.

I see people mention the weapon lag/catchup happens with certain outfits. What happens when naked?

[Tiress]

32 minutes ago, R246 said:

I'm using 1.5.53 with SKSE64 2.0.10 and I don't see any weapon weirdness with SMP. I don't update the game until I'm good and ready, I was still on 1.5.23 last month, didn't see any weapon weirdness with that either. I would suggest there's a little more to it than SMP being broken.

I see people mention the weapon lag/catchup happens with certain outfits. What happens when naked?

Same thing happens unfortunately. I removed mods until I tested it with only those that are required to actually run it. and this is the result:

You can ignore the mention of Havok fix and Engine fixes, I tested it without them too.

 

If it runs just fine for you, then I either had different version of a required mod or different ini configuration or I didn't have a mod that fixes it somehow. That's all that comes to my mind.

 

*sigh* Time to do more testing.

[R246]

6 hours ago, Tiress said:

Same thing happens unfortunately. I removed mods until I tested it with only those that are required to actually run it. and this is the result:

Curious. Does it happen to all weapons, even vanilla ones? 1h and 2h etc.? Does your RM preset have any saved skeleton scaling or weapon offsets? Any errors in SMP logfile?

[cminnow]

2 minutes ago, R246 said:

Curious. Does it happen to all weapons, even vanilla ones? 1h and 2h etc.? Does your RM preset have any saved skeleton scaling or weapon offsets? Any errors in SMP logfile?

I don't think it's an SMP error. It's something to do with fNIS or animations. I've only seen it happen with mods that add full rotation motion.

[Tiress]

SkyUI

Racemenu

FNIS

SMP (framework + physics)

CBBE (this doesn't matter, it happens with all physics enabled bodies)

XPMSE

 

This is my testing setup. No other mods, not even textures, skse plugins, ini configs, nothing, just this. No presets are used, straight to coc qasmoke. Disable SMP and it works.

[cminnow]

On 12/25/2018 at 3:34 PM, Tiress said:

SkyUI

Racemenu

FNIS

SMP (framework + physics)

CBBE (this doesn't matter, it happens with all physics enabled bodies)

XPMSE

 

This is my testing setup. No other mods, not even textures, skse plugins, ini configs, nothing, just this. No presets are used, straight to coc qasmoke. Disable SMP and it works.

Try deleting FNIS and any animations. You still get retarded animations from the XPMSEE installation. I don't know why they don't pack it without animations.

[zarantha]

Thank you to everyone who's worked on figuring out SMP. Because of this, I have chains mostly working for DD/Zaz. The mesh looks broken in game, but it has physics even while broken. Not sure why it never looked broken in LE and fixing meshes is beyond my current skill set. If anyone has an idea if it can be fixed in nifskope and how to do so, let me know.

 

 

Spoiler

 

These are what I'm working with for this example (from DDx SE version):

BallAndChain01.nif

BallandChain01.xml

 

 

[Pfiffy]

4 hours ago, zarantha said:

Thank you to everyone who's worked on figuring out SMP. Because of this, I have chains mostly working for DD/Zaz. The mesh looks broken in game, but it has physics even while broken. Not sure why it never looked broken in LE and fixing meshes is beyond my current skill set. If anyone has an idea if it can be fixed in nifskope and how to do so, let me know.

 

 

  Hide contents

 

These are what I'm working with for this example (from DDx SE version):

BallAndChain01.nif

BallandChain01.xml

 

 

It seems to be something about positioning: I wonder if it could help if I turn the 3 objects into one...

[Vyxenne]

I have an SMP-Cloth-Physics minidress I need to convert from CBBE to UUNP. However, every time I replace the CBBE reference body in Outfit Studio, and then change the "CBBE" references in Dress.xml to UUNP, and remove a CBBE body bone (Breast01 I think) that doesn't exist in UUNP from the xml, the minidress physics breaks and goes all wonky in-game, stretching to the horizon, or into the center of the planet...

 

It actually looks good in-game without conversion, but because it includes a CBBE body and totally a different shape than my UUNP body, I can't wear any of my accessories such as stockings, thongs, etc.

Spoiler

 

 

 

I have converted several CBBE clothing/armor items to UUNP in the past, so I'm not asking for help doing that- I'm asking for help understanding how to handle the cloth-physics part, why it's breaking when I replace the reference body shape, etc.

[cminnow]

1 hour ago, Vyxenne said:

I have converted several CBBE clothing/armor items to UUNP in the past, so I'm not asking for help doing that- I'm asking for help understanding how to handle the cloth-physics part, why it's breaking when I replace the reference body shape, etc.

Maybe attach your xml/nif to see what you might be missing?

 

 

16 hours ago, zarantha said:

Thank you to everyone who's worked on figuring out SMP. Because of this, I have chains mostly working for DD/Zaz. The mesh looks broken in game, but it has physics even while broken. Not sure why it never looked broken in LE and fixing meshes is beyond my current skill set. If anyone has an idea if it can be fixed in nifskope and how to do so, let me know.

How did you import the mesh to SSE? Did you use nifoptimizer? Did you make any changes to the xml?

 

Try this xml to see how it affects your physics.... BallandChain01.xml. Just make sure not to mix it up with your original

[Gromilla]

read the manuals and you will be happy.  I read and tried for half a year. there is nothing complicated there)

https://gfycat.com/FastFirstAlligator

 

https://gfycat.com/FlickeringSociableBoubou

[Pfiffy]

31 minutes ago, cminnow said:

Maybe attach your xml/nif to see what you might be missing?

 

 

How did you import the mesh to SSE? Did you use nifoptimizer? Did you make any changes to the xml?

I think she worked with the nifs from my conversion and they are done with nifoptimizer. The xml i tooka a look at seems to be rewritten from scratch. 

[Tiress]

22 hours ago, cminnow said:

Try deleting FNIS and any animations. You still get retarded animations from the XPMSEE installation. I don't know why they don't pack it without animations.

User convenience I guess.  

 

Same result I'm afraid.

[zarantha]

1 hour ago, cminnow said:

How did you import the mesh to SSE? Did you use nifoptimizer? Did you make any changes to the xml?

 

Try this xml to see how it affects your physics.... BallandChain01.xml. Just make sure not to mix it up with your original

 

For the DD and ZAZ stuff (which includes the ball and chain) I used pfiffy's DD SE and ZAZ 8+ conversions. Those would have been run through nif optimizer. For the DCL items, I ran DCL 7.2 through nif optimizer myself.

 

I wrote the xml's from scratch, the pre-existing xmls were for HDT-PE.

 

No  change on the the appearance, the chains are still broken. The weight of the chain seems better - it falls to the ground  better, I think.

[Yinkle]

2 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

It actually looks good in-game without conversion, but because it includes a CBBE body and totally a different shape than my UUNP body, I can't wear any of my accessories such as stockings, thongs, etc.

So sorry I didn't do this for uunp pal! It was a heck of a lot of work to make it work based on cbbe and it would probably involve the same amount of work again to do it for uunp.

[cminnow]

3 hours ago, zarantha said:

For the DD and ZAZ stuff (which includes the ball and chain) I used pfiffy's DD SE and ZAZ 8+ conversions. Those would have been run through nif optimizer. For the DCL items, I ran DCL 7.2 through nif optimizer myself.

 

I wrote the xml's from scratch, the pre-existing xmls were for HDT-PE.

 

No  change on the the appearance, the chains are still broken. The weight of the chain seems better - it falls to the ground  better, I think.

Oh, I didn't realize you made them from scratch. You must have a pretty good understanding of what you're doing then so here's what I'd try given what I see since I don't have the mod to test with...

 

BallandChain01.xml

 

I think the biggest things I'd change would be to add a mass and some kind of constraint to the ball. Without mass it will stay fixed in place and without a constraint to a mass, it will fall to infinity.

 

Where did you get ChainAttachNode from by the way? I don't see it in the nif?

[zarantha]

33 minutes ago, cminnow said:

Oh, I didn't realize you made them from scratch. You must have a pretty good understanding of what you're doing then so here's what I'd try given what I see since I don't have the mod to test with...

 

BallandChain01.xml

 

I think the biggest things I'd change would be to add a mass and some kind of constraint to the ball. Without mass it will stay fixed in place and without a constraint to a mass, it will fall to infinity.

 

Where did you get ChainAttachNode from by the way? I don't see it in the nif?

Thanks for that, but I'm still learning. 

 

I've been beating my head against it for about a week and a half, it's actually my first time really working with SMP. I read most of this thread - the stuff on pg. 45 from dduserab was especially helpful. The youtube video too, and I downloaded the resplendent armor just to have an xml to start with.  I figured it needed tuning, but that I at least I had the basics.

The ball does move, but it has a tendency to fall into the ground once it passes the virtual ground limits.

 

I had the wrong chain on last time - forgot the there was a  different xml for the two ball and chains. The long one is using the one similar to my original one. The ball won't stay on the virtual ground with yours - I can see it if I jump, but  otherwise it's just the chain and it's much stiffer.

 

Spoiler

With your first xml, the chain falls through the ground, but there are no errors in the log.

 

 

With your 2nd xml I have these errors now in  the hdtssephysics.log now:

[Thu Dec 27 21:37:51 2018]WARNING: skse\plugins\hdtSkinnedMeshConfigs\BallandChain01.xml(18,2):Bone AnkleCuffs is not exist, skipped
[Thu Dec 27 21:37:51 2018]WARNING: skse\plugins\hdtSkinnedMeshConfigs\BallandChain01.xml(55,2):Bone Ball is not exist, skipped
[Thu Dec 27 21:37:51 2018]WARNING: skse\plugins\hdtSkinnedMeshConfigs\BallandChain01.xml(85,3):constraint Ball <-> hdtSSEPhysics_AutoRename_00000130BA4BC940 NC_9 : bodyA doesn't exist, skipped

 

And the chain is stiff:

 

I found ChainAttachNode buried in the skeleton. It was easier to find before I replaced the skeleton so I could  insert the ground.

Spoiler

 

 

 

I think pfiffy may be right, but when I tried to move the nodes (?) to overlap so it was one piece, I ended up with a CTD on equip.

17 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

It seems to be something about positioning: I wonder if it could help if I turn the 3 objects into one...

 

[Vyxenne]

5 hours ago, Gromilla said:

Hey.
Maybe I can help? The whole problem is in bones and their weights as usual ..

The dress is set up for CBBE now. As previously mentioned, it works fine in SSE with proper SMP physics. However, I can't conform it to my body shape (so I can wear other stuff with it) because it's CBBE and my entire universe (in TESV) is UUNP... So I'm trying to convert it to UUNP. Oddly, there are no "CBBE-only" bones, either in the mesh or in the xml- such things as double breast bones and front/rear forearms and thighs, hallmarks of CBBE, are simply not present in this mod anywhere that I have found. This leads me to suspect that it was a UUNP conversion when it was first brought over to Skyrim, way back in the dark ages or whatever. That said, there is no Belly bone, a hallmark of UUNP, anywhere either.

 

On the other hand, if I knew wtf I was talking about I wouldn't be begging for help on this forum. Lol. So just ignore me and my half-witted opinions.  Thanks.

[Vyxenne]

6 hours ago, Yinkle said:

So sorry I didn't do this for uunp pal! It was a heck of a lot of work to make it work based on cbbe and it would probably involve the same amount of work again to do it for uunp.

Oh, please don't apologize! You did great work and it's beautiful in-game. I'm just delighted I'm getting to test it and (hopefully) add value to it.

 

My problem is I believe there are wayyy too many UUNP<<<>>>CBBE conversions around for TESV, some of them SMP, for all of them to have required "starting from scratch." I'm hoping some of the SMP gurus here will know a way for mere mortals to do it without starting in Blender with a png.

[Pfiffy]

6 hours ago, cminnow said:

Oh, I didn't realize you made them from scratch. You must have a pretty good understanding of what you're doing then so here's what I'd try given what I see since I don't have the mod to test with...

 

BallandChain01.xml

 

I think the biggest things I'd change would be to add a mass and some kind of constraint to the ball. Without mass it will stay fixed in place and without a constraint to a mass, it will fall to infinity.

 

Where did you get ChainAttachNode from by the way? I don't see it in the nif?

It is Node 21 in the NPC L Calf. I finally get back some hope again, that this stuff will get fixed somehow. This will make a lot of ppl happy customers.

[Pfiffy]

5 hours ago, zarantha said:

 

 

I think pfiffy may be right, but when I tried to move the nodes (?) to overlap so it was one piece, I ended up with a CTD on equip.

 

I thought of doing it with 3DS or gimp, but i found a way of repositioning in Nifskope. Maybe it helps... I moved the chain into the 'right' position and lifted it a bit up. (The ball seemed to be sticking in the ground maybe this is why it is falling throu) 

 

BallAndChain01.nif

[jimmywon34]

development on hdt smp sse has stopped, correct? I read that the author didn't want to continue developing it and it was left in a buggy state.

[Andarus]

I'm getting more and more annoyed with lots of Mods not being available anymore for Skyrim, so I was looking at switching over. How is teh Status with SSE? Do we have full HDT Bodies with working HDT Vaginas, Bellys etc?