Deviously Enslaved Continued [2019-11-11]

[Verstort]

Will do.

 

I didn't occur to me that that would be a nice workaround for that one mod that fails to label their NPCs with the right gender, not sure if it won't annoy users who have some odd setup but we'll fix that bug if it becomes an issue.

[Wykes]

There's a mod that fails to...  No, I don't want to know. 

 

Thanks for the fast response, in any case.

[Verstort]

There's a mod that fails to...  No, I don't want to know. 

 

Thanks for the fast response, in any case.

 

At least one of the "Populated X and Y"  series of mods shows all men as women, or all women as men, can't recall which.

 

I haven't tested the sexlab gender in detail, I put on a gender lock and it stopped those NPCs from approaching me, but I didn't actually ask sexlab to change a gender for me. Let me know if it's not working.

 

 

So the follower option doesn't seem to register my actual followers.  It does however, seem to register random NPCs and list them as followers. I just had Balimund come running up to my character, tell her I missed something in the chest I looted, and then equip it on my character. I also had it register a fox as a follower.

 

Is that supposed to be happening? With non follower npcs? 

 

This version should work better at getting nearby followers into your list, still slow to populate though.

 

Unless you have sex with an NPC, or they are your nearest active follower, they won't show up either, so don't get squirrely with the fox and he'll stay out of the list along with other random NPCs.

 

---

 

Releasing this version as is because I don't think I'll have time to work on it for a few days and none of the new feature ideas are moving fast enough right now.

 

The PAH tied detection requires a mods refresh

 

Edit: well that was painful.

[Sospice]

If they have high enough relationship rank they can show up there, set the rank to 5 if you don't want anyone but active followers.

 

The default should be 3, which should be high enough to not get foxes and stuff.

 

The part where followers don't show up... How long did you let DEC sit with them as your follower? I can't actively search for followers because of hte system I use, maybe I'll go back to the slower search just so people have fewer issues, even if it should be way slower.

 

The part where non-followers find items and show them to you, that's my fault because I don't have a reliable way to detect when a new follower is added to the player's party, so I can't reset recently opened containers variable, which just builds forever unfortunately.

 

Then that might be because of PSQ's fascinate ability. It causes an increase to relationship rank every time you have a sex act. It might be causing increases just from npcs seeing you as well, I'm not sure.

 

It may be causing increases to npc characters and animals in the area that I'm not interacting with, but have never noticed before because I've never had a mod that is basically providing historian data on relationship rank with npcs. I guess you could put a warning in the mod incompatibilities section if that's the case. 

 

I'll try setting it to 5 and see what happens. 

 

I've been experimenting with Marcurio only so far. Sometimes he gets added, sometimes he doesn't. I usually try telling him to not follow and then immediately tell him to follow again, and eventually it seems to sort itself out and list him by the next day.

But it seems sporadic and I can't see any pattern to it. 

 

*edit, I just saw your above post. I'll check out the new version. 

 

 

[lexv]

Looks like 13.3.2 does not detect followers.(

In 13.3.0 and before all things was OK.

[Verstort]

Regular followers right? Do you mean they won't approach you or they won't show up in the MCM menu?

 

Did you save clean or upgrade from an old version?

[bicobus]

One aspect of this mod that annoys me the most is how it introduce a slight conflict in sexing. For example, if I get enslaved through SD+ and thus bound, that put a "free for all" target on my butt which most of the time will keep me or the new owner from interacting with each other. Another example would be with some of the captured dreams events. If I get punished by the Master, or I get send into one of the Master's errands, my followers would usually be put into chains while they wait for me to get them back. However, if said follower detect that I'm in vulnerable state, regardless of its own condition, will approach me and try to rape me. And lastly, I tried the alternate life start from Content Consumer "I am an Alicia, promised to Lord Sanguine", other alicias in sanguine domains will try to rape me even though they are themselves bound. I expect the same behavior from the slaves introduced by the mod Slave girls.

 

Is there a way to disallow all NPC wearing collars or in a equal state of vulnerability the ability to rape the PC? Because once tagged as vulnerable, the game cease to be skyrim and become a fuck feast.

[Verstort]

Another example would be with some of the captured dreams events. If I get punished by the Master, or I get send into one of the Master's errands, my followers would usually be put into chains while they wait for me to get them back. However, if said follower detect that I'm in vulnerable state, regardless of its own condition, will approach me and try to rape me.

 

Er, I want to clarify: Your follower is running up to you while they should be chained up by master for sex? To be fair, I didn't think to check if they were tied up in CD, that's my bad, but I didn't think my AI package would override CD's.

 

I'll see about fixing that. If I misunderstood can you clarify in greater detail what is happening?

 

And lastly, I tried the alternate life start from Content Consumer "I am an Alicia, promised to Lord Sanguine", other alicias in sanguine domains will try to rape me even though they are themselves bound. I expect the same behavior from the slaves introduced by the mod Slave girls.

 

Slave girls aren't followers though... and they shouldn't attack you because they are in a slave faction which has been detected by DEC for awhile, or at least nobody has complained about hydra slave girls before now.

 

You're right I haven't added checks for those alternate life starts that content consumer made, last time I tried installing his mod the dialogue option wouldn't load so I went back to Immerslave, but yeah I probably need to add an exception for that start (like 90% of all mods where DEC's regular behavior doesn't fit the context)

 

Is there a way to disallow all NPC wearing collars or in a equal state of vulnerability the ability to rape the PC? Because once tagged as vulnerable, the game cease to be skyrim and become a fuck feast.

 

Right now followers with armbinder and/or gag won't attack you, and any NPC that is in a slave faction, certain mod factions (like CD npc faction) NPCs wearing certain slave gear won't attack you because they are slaves.

 

Collars alone is a pain because there's a mod (not sure which) that went around adding collars to 60% of all skyrim NPCs, so suddenly nobody would attack me because ZAP collars became a fashion sensation in skyrim thanks to that mod. You can turn this off, and use ZAP collars to mark slaves, by turning off "Ignore Zaz on NPC Slaves" in the MCM (I thought I named the option better than that...)

 

Other than those alt start slaves in that one scenario, what other NPC slaves have approached you? I typically have to make exceptions by hand so it won't get fixed unless someone tells me.

 

But you can reduce the chances of getting attacked, increase the time between checks, increase the required arousal, increase the required morality deficit, ect. I gave plenty of options for ways to reduce frequency of free use, but if you have any more ideas I'm all ears.

 

One aspect of this mod that annoys me the most is how it introduce a slight conflict in sexing. For example, if I get enslaved through SD+ and thus bound, that put a "free for all" target on my butt which most of the time will keep me or the new owner from interacting with each other.

 

"Look like a slave, get treated like a slave" This was the original description of DEC. DEC was supposed to be "glue" that would help make it seem more realistic that you were a slave by making nearby NPCs treat you like one when you were one.

 

You could turn DEC off during SD+ if you don't want NPCs approaching the player as they are a slave, but uh, what other part of SD+ does DEC interrupt? I wasn't aware that it was getting in the way of any SD+ events, but I haven't played it through in awhile, and not since the latest update.

 

If you mean that having sex over and over again is preventing you from talking to your master, then... I dunno, you could raise the required arousal for attacks, or just not get enslaved with so many horn dogs nearby.

[lexv]

Regular followers right? Do you mean they won't approach you or they won't show up in the MCM menu?

 

Did you save clean or upgrade from an old version?

 

they wont show, and wont approach

upgrade from 13.3.0

 

[Verstort]

Regular followers right? Do you mean they won't approach you or they won't show up in the MCM menu?

 

Did you save clean or upgrade from an old version?

 

they wont show, and wont approach

upgrade from 13.3.0

 

Can you post a papyrus log?

 

You get the same behavior on a new game right? You can quickly teleport to leon/leah for fast follower testing with "coc whiterunbanneredmare"

 

[bicobus]

As preamble, I would like to warn you that I went in a bit of a ramble at the end of this message. I was trying to express my view on how silly some approach of player slavery by mods can be and is not exclusively about DEC. Yet, I'm not sure if that ramble is on point and within the scope of this mod. Apologies if it's not.
 

 

Another example would be with some of the captured dreams events. If I get punished by the Master, or I get send into one of the Master's errands, my followers would usually be put into chains while they wait for me to get them back. However, if said follower detect that I'm in vulnerable state, regardless of its own condition, will approach me and try to rape me.

 
Er, I want to clarify: Your follower is running up to you while they should be chained up by master for sex? To be fair, I didn't think to check if they were tied up in CD, that's my bad, but I didn't think my AI package would override CD's.
 
I'll see about fixing that. If I misunderstood can you clarify in greater detail what is happening?

 

 
I had the ELLE sexbot thing as follower, the one introduced by sexlab stories. I tried to do the first quest of CD (which send you in Falkreath), but got late and Master punished me. Once that happens, your follower get bound like the other NPC-slave present in the house. From that point on, when I entered the shop, the ELLE bot while being bound, engaged in an aggressive "master" behavior since I was fitted with CD punishment items.
 

 

And lastly, I tried the alternate life start from Content Consumer "I am an Alicia, promised to Lord Sanguine", other alicias in sanguine domains will try to rape me even though they are themselves bound. I expect the same behavior from the slaves introduced by the mod Slave girls.

Slave girls aren't followers though... and they shouldn't attack you because they are in a slave faction which has been detected by DEC for awhile, or at least nobody has complained about hydra slave girls before now.

You're right I haven't added checks for those alternate life starts that content consumer made, last time I tried installing his mod the dialogue option wouldn't load so I went back to Immerslave, but yeah I probably need to add an exception for that start (like 90% of all mods where DEC's regular behavior doesn't fit the context)

Is there a way to disallow all NPC wearing collars or in a equal state of vulnerability the ability to rape the PC? Because once tagged as vulnerable, the game cease to be skyrim and become a fuck feast.

Right now followers with armbinder and/or gag won't attack you, and any NPC that is in a slave faction, certain mod factions (like CD npc faction) NPCs wearing certain slave gear won't attack you because they are slaves.

Collars alone is a pain because there's a mod (not sure which) that went around adding collars to 60% of all skyrim NPCs, so suddenly nobody would attack me because ZAP collars became a fashion sensation in skyrim thanks to that mod. You can turn this off, and use ZAP collars to mark slaves, by turning off "Ignore Zaz on NPC Slaves" in the MCM (I thought I named the option better than that...)

Other than those alt start slaves in that one scenario, what other NPC slaves have approached you? I typically have to make exceptions by hand so it won't get fixed unless someone tells me.

But you can reduce the chances of getting attacked, increase the time between checks, increase the required arousal, increase the required morality deficit, ect. I gave plenty of options for ways to reduce frequency of free use, but if you have any more ideas I'm all ears.

 

Slave girls may not be recognized as slave by DEC. They are just put in the world with some contraption and a script that put them in Zaz items (pillory and the like). Same stuff with the Alicias in sanguine domain, which is why they try to rape me if I initialize a dialogue with them. About CCAS, the dialogue option is "hidden" in a subtree called "I'm involved in a dark tale". I was a bit confused too, but CCAS won't be initialized unless you hit that dialogue option. However all CCAS does is putting the player in specific starting position, most of them are dependent on other mods like SD+, sexlab stories or Being Female.

I have noticed the collars being put everywhere and on over body. I assumed it was from the mod "For the Masses", but it turns out that assumption was incorrect. From what I've seen, it seems that those collars are added randomly, as long as the NPC is not unique. It's probably ZaZAnimationPack.esm doing that, maybe wrong but it sure is a solid suspect. I mean, the devious items are only zaz collars.

Have you considered checking for the NPC factions? I believe a good chunk of enslavement mods put the player or NPC in specific factions depending on their status. Paradise halls might be one of them.
 

 

One aspect of this mod that annoys me the most is how it introduce a slight conflict in sexing. For example, if I get enslaved through SD+ and thus bound, that put a "free for all" target on my butt which most of the time will keep me or the new owner from interacting with each other.

"Look like a slave, get treated like a slave" This was the original description of DEC. DEC was supposed to be "glue" that would help make it seem more realistic that you were a slave by making nearby NPCs treat you like one when you were one.

You could turn DEC off during SD+ if you don't want NPCs approaching the player as they are a slave, but uh, what other part of SD+ does DEC interrupt? I wasn't aware that it was getting in the way of any SD+ events, but I haven't played it through in awhile, and not since the latest update.

If you mean that having sex over and over again is preventing you from talking to your master, then... I dunno, you could raise the required arousal for attacks, or just not get enslaved with so many horn dogs nearby.

 

Well, I'm not quite sure if I agree with DEC's interpretation of what a slave actually is. Slave to whom? I'm pretty sure the owner wouldn't be so thrilled to see his/her slave get used by the whole city, especially if it conflict with the job of the slave. And on another hand, you can't really go fuck somebody else's property. At least not without permission. Beside, being a slave doesn't automatically transform the player into a fuckdoll. Even more so, I don't think it would be socially acceptable to have some gangbangs in the middle of the city. Most people have a sense of decency, and if they don't the guards would beat the crap out of them.
 
As for ideas, I have plenty but they go beyond the "let's activate the sexing animation". For example, if the player is found in a vulnerable state by a NPC, that NPC might just assume the player wants some fun. But out of general decency will leash the player to its home or a dark corner before triggering the sexing. After that, leave the player in a trauma state which leaves it vulnerable to enslavement, arrest (if found by guards) or being helped (sent to the temple of Kynareth or equally relevant place).
 
I feel that DEC is a bit of the sex events for the poor. Even though the mechanics are well implemented, they are not tied to any story or quest events and thus seems shallow. Yet with everything introduced by this mod, there can be so much content built around it. Let's go back to the NPC that find the player and then proceed to abuse it. After that, the NPC could think "hey, I can make a profit out of this" and proceed to prostitute the player. That and the use of the Sexual Fame framework and implementation of the relationships between follower and player as dom or sub.



About sanguine debauchery:

There should be a way to detect if the player has a SD+ master or not, if a master is detected then you should leave the approach up to the player. SD+ has many interactions between the owner and the slave: in combat, the owner is moving around, the owner is horny, etc... Beside that, it's the player's job to build up a relationship with the owner. SD+ assume that if the player is enslaved, it's to the exclusivity of the owner and the owner alone should decide what his property usage could be (I may be wrong, if only skyrimll could correct me). If the owner is in a tavern, then the player is probably doomed to service all the NPC present in the cell, over and over again, because once one is serviced its arousal will get back up by seeing the played getting gangbang by the rest of the patrons.
 
IMHO, turning DEC off while enslaved through SD+ isn't the ideal option, but tuning DEC depending on the owner's wishes could be. It may be a good idea to explore that option with skyrimLL, see if it's possible for DEC to hook into SD+ and listen for events. I mean, if the owner's slave is being used, let him/her at least have some gold in exchange (and in extension, works towards the player's gold goal to allow the player to buy back his/her freedom).
 
Being repeatedly asked for sex or enslavement/sex is really annoying when one of the only way we have to get out of bondage is to ask a blacksmith, a court wizard or "something" else. By putting a giant target on the player character, what you achieve is forcing the player to avoid areas where it wouldn't be beneficial for him/her to wander in. I mean, under certain conditions, DEC will keep the players out of cities because it is certain that enslavement will be the outcome. It's like asking somebody to willingly walk into a raging fire.
 
(Warning, the following may be considered a rant, but that rant may already have started. (sorry!))

As I said earlier, it feels silly to be considered a fuckdoll. And to try to explain this better, here is another experience I had just after the Alicia start. Once in sanguine's domain, you can escape it by pull down a chain. Doing so, you get transported in riften. More specifically in  
Haelga's Bunkhouse's basement. Don't ask why, I have no idea. The issue start here: as soon as the player appears, he/she is ripe for sexing/enslavement because naked and wearing some bondage gear. If the player resists by a kick in the nuts, a fight between the would-be master and the player occurs. Evidently, because as a new player I'm level 1 and naked, the would-be enslaver win by putting the player in bleedout mode (thanks SLdefeat/DA for that). That mode will trigger every other NPC to attack the would-be enslaver out of concern for the player well being. Yet, if the player weren't in bleedout mode, they would gladly fuck/enslave him/her.
 
I suppose this is due to SLdefeat or some kind of morality check by another mod, yet it just put an emphasis on how awkward DEC can be at time. Especially when hydra's slave girls mod is active: there are slaves everywhere, but, for some reason, the player is the only one being asked for sex. There is also the "We are in the middle of the city, bend over and let me fuck you woman!". I understand you're horny, mister NPC, but shouldn't you call the guards and report the exhibitionist instead? What are you, an animal?! Beside, maybe the guards will let you fuck the naughty player before putting her in jail.

[Verstort]

This version has two changes: an experimental follower in chains detection system, and a fix for SD Dreamworld (I think)

 

It went over my head that you were talking about the SD dreamworld when talking about CCAS, I thought I fixed this a long time ago so that you wouldn't get attacked in the dream world but in my tests the world wouldn't load, it was a none object, so it would never correctly detect that the player was in the world.

 

I think I fixed it, just tested it 15 minutes ago I was unattackable in the dreamworld, but uh... the bug made no sense in the first place, I didn't change anything that should have fixed it, so it might still be broken. You'll need to reset mods in the DEC debug menu to fix it or save clean though even with this version.

 

I threw together a quick detection system for followers in the CD prison system. This hasn't been tested yet, I need to get a save back up to the point where I can start an expansion quest to have my follower taken from me, but since I'm waiting for CD 4.0 to come out I'm in no rush to test a feature that won't exist for 99% of people in a few days. This systme too needs a Mods detection reset to work.

 

---

 

 

You're argument that DEC's free use sex system doesn't fit the world context is valid, unless you have SRR or DCL, then it does seem rather odd. There are mod authors that would have liked to make a system where slaves are used by nearby NPCs all the time, but it would have killed the papyrus engine which is a weak piece of shit. DEC breaks papyrus all byitself for some users, can you imagine x10?

 

I'll see about making a SD+ lockdown option so that you won't be approached for sex if your SD+ master is in sight, locking sex out completely makes the rest of DEC seem rather odd.

 

My memory is bad, but the reason I left DEC sex attack on for SD+ was because I thought I remembered my old SD master telling my character to go whore themselves to make him money. How many people do you think would politely pay a slave for sex when they are tied up in a world with this kind of slavery, though? I would expect them to get exploited left and right without support from a pimp.

 

 

I feel that DEC is a bit of the sex events for the poor. Even though the mechanics are well implemented, they are not tied to any story or quest events and thus seems shallow. Yet with everything introduced by this mod, there can be so much content built around it. Let's go back to the NPC that find the player and then proceed to abuse it. After that, the NPC could think "hey, I can make a profit out of this" and proceed to prostitute the player. That and the use of the Sexual Fame framework and implementation of the relationships between follower and player as dom or sub.

 

Writing extra new features for DEC is something I'm still in the process of doing, but I'm slow, I have something of a mental obstruction when it comes to writing new dialogue (I didn't start this mod, just started fixing it bit by bit and here we are.) So lots of ideas I've had for a long time often go un-impletemented.

 

Other ideas lack working implementations. The idea of an NPC who abuses the player enough to eventually become their master sounds interesting in theory, but how should I implement it? I never intended to write my own slavery system, SD+ doesn't support passive slavery and is too rigid, Maria eden I can't even run on this machine anymore without a mountain of bugs (need to retest), no other slavery system allows for it and I'm too lazy to implement a whole new system, which was a bit beyond the idea of the mod anyway. You're free to write it if you want, or wait for me to get around to it maybe.

 

 

That and the use of the Sexual Fame framework and implementation of the relationships between follower and player as dom or sub.

 

I don't see the point at all really.

 

If you have BDSM sex in a forest or in your house with a follower, why would everyone in town suddenly know about it (then again why does everyone know this potato I took from a unattented house is stolen)? Those DEC follower interactions should only happen at a player house or when you're alone. My follower is always in my sight, so they couldn't have slipped off to tell anyone, and why would they? Would you want to share your own private slut/dom/sub/fuckbuddy with the rest of the world when you can have them all to yourself and/or risk losing them (and risk losing the stable source of sex)?

 

I created my own system so I could have interactions with just the follower, so I could swap followers and they wouldn't suddenly know every sex position and wretched thing I did in this playthrough or months ago, so that I could make interactions more interesting later without them bleeding between each other. Localized fame doesn't allow for that without taking whole areas and forfeiting them.

 

Also, I have no desire at all to make the fame mod a requirement for the follower system to work.

 

 

Being repeatedly asked for sex or enslavement/sex is really annoying when one of the only way we have to get out of bondage is to ask a blacksmith, a court wizard or "something" else. By putting a giant target on the player character, what you achieve is forcing the player to avoid areas where it wouldn't be beneficial for him/her to wander in. I mean, under certain conditions, DEC will keep the players out of cities because it is certain that enslavement will be the outcome. It's like asking somebody to willingly walk into a raging fire.

 

You can make keys at any forge, you can find keys in any barrel (FTM, DCL, DDi) or at your house if you're wise enough to save some. You can ask a follower to walk around with you as partial protection. You can cover up some items with clothes. You can carry around a big stick to scare off attackers. I'm open to more ideas here too, but there are plenty of ways to reduce risk in my opinion.

 

You can turn the chance down in the options, all the way to zero if you want, but pretty sure most users want there to be a risk of enslavement for walking around looking like a slave without a master. Suddenly, just wearing what are often un-eventful items like cuffs and a collar is risky, that's one of the core features of the mod when it was created.

 

I suppose this is due to SLdefeat or some kind of morality check by another mod, yet it just put an emphasis on how awkward DEC can be at time. Especially when hydra's slave girls mod is active: there are slaves everywhere, but, for some reason, the player is the only one being asked for sex. There is also the "We are in the middle of the city, bend over and let me fuck you woman!". I understand you're horny, mister NPC, but shouldn't you call the guards and report the exhibitionist instead? What are you, an animal?! Beside, maybe the guards will let you fuck the naughty player before putting her in jail.

 

I went with the ask her for free sex and call the guards to punish her if she refues option instead, but you make a good point.

Deviously Enslaved Continued(v13.3.3 Testing).7z

[Wykes]

There is an interesting dichotomy here somewhere.  Pretty much every mod marks a collar as being 'free for the taking', whereas it should probably be a form of protection.  A mark that says 'this individual is owned by someone else: Hands Off'.   For instance, I don't see the Captured Dreams master being willing to share her collared slaves.

 

That said, changing the status-quo would probably be almost impossible to manage, unless there was wide uptake of a new keyword that flagged a character as being property, this would be especially difficult, as any collar so tagged would have to be a quest item, so the player couldn't collar themselves.

[bicobus]

(writing this in haste because my dog's been requesting its walk for a while. My pants are starting to get shredded.)

 

I threw together a quick detection system for followers in the CD prison system. This hasn't been tested yet, I need to get a save back up to the point where I can start an expansion quest to have my follower taken from me, but since I'm waiting for CD 4.0 to come out I'm in no rush to test a feature that won't exist for 99% of people in a few days. This systme too needs a Mods detection reset to work.

You and me both.

 

You're argument that DEC's free use sex system doesn't fit the world context is valid, unless you have SRR or DCL, then it does seem rather odd. There are mod authors that would have liked to make a system where slaves are used by nearby NPCs all the time, but it would have killed the papyrus engine which is a weak piece of shit. DEC breaks papyrus all byitself for some users, can you imagine x10?

Personally I removed the constant solicitation by NPC from DCL because it just won't stop. I can't take 2 steps in without being stopped for some 10 seconds animations. It gets tiring fast.

 

I'll see about making a SD+ lockdown option so that you won't be approached for sex if your SD+ master is in sight, locking sex out completely makes the rest of DEC seem rather odd.

 

My memory is bad, but the reason I left DEC sex attack on for SD+ was because I thought I remembered my old SD master telling my character to go whore themselves to make him money. How many people do you think would politely pay a slave for sex when they are tied up in a world with this kind of slavery, though? I would expect them to get exploited left and right without support from a pimp.

Yeah, the intention here I believe is that the owner expect the player to bring in money and thus should be up to the player to decide of a way to earn that money. Whoring oneself is valid, stealing is too I guess. Anyhow, the base mechanic of skyrim revolve around the player's freedom and I feel it's smart to design mechanics around that idea, even if the player is encased in bondage gears.

 

 

I feel that DEC is a bit of the sex events for the poor. Even though the mechanics are well implemented, they are not tied to any story or quest events and thus seems shallow. Yet with everything introduced by this mod, there can be so much content built around it. Let's go back to the NPC that find the player and then proceed to abuse it. After that, the NPC could think "hey, I can make a profit out of this" and proceed to prostitute the player. That and the use of the Sexual Fame framework and implementation of the relationships between follower and player as dom or sub.

 

Writing extra new features for DEC is something I'm still in the process of doing, but I'm slow, I have something of a mental obstruction when it comes to writing new dialogue (I didn't start this mod, just started fixing it bit by bit and here we are.) So lots of ideas I've had for a long time often go un-impletemented.

 

Other ideas lack working implementations. The idea of an NPC who abuses the player enough to eventually become their master sounds interesting in theory, but how should I implement it? I never intended to write my own slavery system, SD+ doesn't support passive slavery and is too rigid, Maria eden I can't even run on this machine anymore without a mountain of bugs (need to retest), no other slavery system allows for it and I'm too lazy to implement a whole new system, which was a bit beyond the idea of the mod anyway. You're free to write it if you want, or wait for me to get around to it maybe.

 

 

 

That and the use of the Sexual Fame framework and implementation of the relationships between follower and player as dom or sub.

 

I don't see the point at all really.

 

If you have BDSM sex in a forest or in your house with a follower, why would everyone in town suddenly know about it (then again why does everyone know this potato I took from a unattented house is stolen)? Those DEC follower interactions should only happen at a player house or when you're alone. My follower is always in my sight, so they couldn't have slipped off to tell anyone, and why would they? Would you want to share your own private slut/dom/sub/fuckbuddy with the rest of the world when you can have them all to yourself and/or risk losing them (and risk losing the stable source of sex)?

 

I created my own system so I could have interactions with just the follower, so I could swap followers and they wouldn't suddenly know every sex position and wretched thing I did in this playthrough or months ago, so that I could make interactions more interesting later without them bleeding between each other. Localized fame doesn't allow for that without taking whole areas and forfeiting them.

 

Also, I have no desire at all to make the fame mod a requirement for the follower system to work.

 

Being repeatedly asked for sex or enslavement/sex is really annoying when one of the only way we have to get out of bondage is to ask a blacksmith, a court wizard or "something" else. By putting a giant target on the player character, what you achieve is forcing the player to avoid areas where it wouldn't be beneficial for him/her to wander in. I mean, under certain conditions, DEC will keep the players out of cities because it is certain that enslavement will be the outcome. It's like asking somebody to willingly walk into a raging fire.

 

You can make keys at any forge, you can find keys in any barrel (FTM, DCL, DDi) or at your house if you're wise enough to save some. You can ask a follower to walk around with you as partial protection. You can cover up some items with clothes. You can carry around a big stick to scare off attackers. I'm open to more ideas here too, but there are plenty of ways to reduce risk in my opinion.

 

You can turn the chance down in the options, all the way to zero if you want, but pretty sure most users want there to be a risk of enslavement for walking around looking like a slave without a master. Suddenly, just wearing what are often un-eventful items like cuffs and a collar is risky, that's one of the core features of the mod when it was created.

 

 

The way I see the relationship player/follower introduced by this mod is that the follower is really close to be a semi-passive pimp for the player, and this is a perspective introduced after having experienced it. I mean, the follower will eventually put bondage gear on the player. The follower will also eventually allow NPC to have their ways with the player. All that is required now is for the follower to ask said NPC to pay up after usage.

 

The reverse can be also true, player put bondage on follower then whore them around.

 

That relationship can strengthen throughout the game, depending of the player behavior, which can lead to an effective enslavement by a follower. And there you have it: deviously enslaved And you don't necessarily need new dialogue for that, it's just something that happens and evolve. Plus, it gives the player a sense of security when going in town: he/she has one master and the current followed storyline won't get broken because some NPC decided to enslave the player while that one was selling his loot or doing another task for the companions.

 

The fame framework is there to weight in how submissive, dominant, slutty or whorish the player can be, but shouldn't be taken as the rule.

 

 

I suppose this is due to SLdefeat or some kind of morality check by another mod, yet it just put an emphasis on how awkward DEC can be at time. Especially when hydra's slave girls mod is active: there are slaves everywhere, but, for some reason, the player is the only one being asked for sex. There is also the "We are in the middle of the city, bend over and let me fuck you woman!". I understand you're horny, mister NPC, but shouldn't you call the guards and report the exhibitionist instead? What are you, an animal?! Beside, maybe the guards will let you fuck the naughty player before putting her in jail.

I went with the ask her for free sex and call the guards to punish her if she refues option instead, but you make a good point.

 

Err, is that compatible with prison overhaul? As in, it is considered a crime and then get jailed and have all that devious jail thing happening? (Please?)

[Guest]

I love your mod as is (But I didn't want to quote the longish quote above).

Maybe it's how I tweaked the crap out of my game but usually only Ysolda ever demands sex, and there's usually a signal she will want some, she begins to run somewhere.

If I'm not busy eating or watching TV, I steer player towards Ysolda's house, or to an unused pathway behind a house.

I made the ankle-chains removable and they work great.

 

There is a mod existing that says "You know you want it too" and other phrases, that's maybe the only thing I'd change.

If relationshiprank >2 (or so)

    say "Let's have fun", etc.

 

"It can't be helped" is a dumb line, but don't tell.

 

"I am Your master, dog, service me" (a little over the top but sounds much better than "good slut")

She might only be One person's outlet, why should that make her a slut?

After 130 repetitions it grates.

"I am not a slave" instead of "I am not a slut" makes less sense than some banter about being slutty.

Better

"I am no slut"

"You are, you were born to serve"

OK whatever serves as talking trash in Skyrim

 

[Guest Long John]

The SexLab Sexual Fame suggestion probably was made so that if someone (e.g. Hunters or another group wondering the area) happens across your player character and their master doing it! They can potentially spread word about it gradually across Skyrim and/or Solstheim.

 

Depending on the views of the individuals and their morality they may begin to view you as nothing but a "thing" a toy to be used and abused. As well as making comments as such. So even if you manage to escape from the master your player character will be branded as such by the reputation from the Sexual Fame mod.

 

There's a slavery framework in the ZAZ Animation Pack (which may take out some of the work of creating your own system).

 

Combining this with branding the victim would allow this mod to progress further as recognising a specific brand could allow for returning.

 

There's also Devious Attributes modification which creates a framework for a dynamic mental attitude system surrounding the slavery or other similar events.

[Verstort]

There is an interesting dichotomy here somewhere.  Pretty much every mod marks a collar as being 'free for the taking', whereas it should probably be a form of protection.  A mark that says 'this individual is owned by someone else: Hands Off'.   For instance, I don't see the Captured Dreams master being willing to share her collared slaves.

 

That said, changing the status-quo would probably be almost impossible to manage, unless there was wide uptake of a new keyword that flagged a character as being property, this would be especially difficult, as any collar so tagged would have to be a quest item, so the player couldn't collar themselves.

 

I thought I had it set so that CDx items would ward off people under the assumption that nobody would mess with a master's slave (the might of Rome sort of thing with master being all powerful) but looking at the code it's not the case currently.

 

I might do that and leave it as an MCM item.

 

I mean you make a good point about collars marking slaves "taken" in traditional context, but I made two assumptions, one that you were being attacked by people who thought you were free use because your master wasn't with you and it was a sign that you were submissive in the first place, and would be worth approaching. Follower being with you acting as your master used to lock DEC from allowing approaches, but chase added dialogue that required you to still be approachable, so now we're in an odd spot where I feel dialogue should be tweaked but I haven't been in the mood to change it.

 

I suppose this is due to SLdefeat or some kind of morality check by another mod, yet it just put an emphasis on how awkward DEC can be at time. Especially when hydra's slave girls mod is active: there are slaves everywhere, but, for some reason, the player is the only one being asked for sex. There is also the "We are in the middle of the city, bend over and let me fuck you woman!". I understand you're horny, mister NPC, but shouldn't you call the guards and report the exhibitionist instead? What are you, an animal?! Beside, maybe the guards will let you fuck the naughty player before putting her in jail.

I went with the ask her for free sex and call the guards to punish her if she refues option instead, but you make a good point.

Err, is that compatible with prison overhaul? As in, it is considered a crime and then get jailed and have all that devious jail thing happening? (Please?)

 

Yes. POx is used in at least one No->'Well I'll call the guard on you then slut' outcome and one guard interaction (although guard interaction is kinda in a wonky state and I'm kinda ignoring it) I might have had more than just that one interaction too.

 

I could probably add more variants that result in you being arrested too, just wasn't as high on my list.

 

The fame framework is there to weight in how submissive, dominant, slutty or whorish the player can be, but shouldn't be taken as the rule.

The SexLab Sexual Fame suggestion probably was made so that if someone (e.g. Hunters or another group wondering the area) happens across your player character and their master doing it! They can potentially spread word about it gradually across Skyrim and/or Solstheim.

 

Depending on the views of the individuals and their morality they may begin to view you as nothing but a "thing" a toy to be used and abused. As well as making comments as such. So even if you manage to escape from the master your player character will be branded as such by the reputation from the Sexual Fame mod.

 

Actually I think Bicobus means that changes in public perception should change the followers disposition and thoughts on the player's preferences, which currently it doesn't.

 

I was going to add my own implementation since:

A.) Follower walking around with the player (while player is in bondage) alone in the woods should change perception, but fame wouldn't work because alone

B.) Fame works on a x/100 scale, but I never finalized the scale for DEC's sytem, is it z/20, z/25, z/50? Doesn't scale easily to x/100 changes, and the x in Fame is based on how many people saw it, which isn't even a factor in DEC since our follower is always with us.

C.) I was originally going to add ceilings for certain actions. If the player likes wearing collars all the time but likes playing the dom in sex, that's less submissive than always wearing full bondage or accepting their follower as master in roleplay, ect. There should be a max sub/dom level for some actions because of the different "levels" they you would associate with different kinds of actions, but I haven't gotten to implementing that yet.

 

I had plans to allow the follower to behave differently depending on levels and/or certain situations (rubberdoll collar and slut collar -> fucktoy, pet collar -> bitch, harness with plugs or slut collar -> horny slut, trained slut from SRR special use, ect) but that makes dialogue even more complicated and I'm still fixing bugs from just this item adding segment, I haven't even written special roleplay dialogue yet. Special cases will take me months to add all the stuff I had planed at this rate. Might still happen just not happening fast.

 

As for fame working when the follower and player are caught by other NPCs: This is already taken care of by Fame, I don't have to add it from my side.

 

There's a slavery framework in the ZAZ Animation Pack (which may take out some of the work of creating your own system).

 

Combining this with branding the victim would allow this mod to progress further as recognising a specific brand could allow for returning.

 

There's also Devious Attributes modification which creates a framework for a dynamic mental attitude system surrounding the slavery or other similar events.

 

ZAP is in development hell. It gets sporadic releases but bugs aren't being fixed in realtime, the DDi team had to build a new system to make up for ZAP breaking with the last Sexlab releases, because ZAP wasn't being maintained reliably.

 

I have no intention of making it a hard requirement for any additional functionality in this state. I set the bar high when I have to rely on a framework that relies on other frameworks, I have enough headaches because of that in the real world.

 

Specific slavetats (branding device of doom) having an affect on relationships is possible, but yeah right now they just increase vulnerability.

 

I love your mod as is (But I didn't want to quote the longish quote above).

Maybe it's how I tweaked the crap out of my game but usually only Ysolda ever demands sex, and there's usually a signal she will want some, she begins to run somewhere.

If I'm not busy eating or watching TV, I steer player towards Ysolda's house, or to an unused pathway behind a house.

I made the ankle-chains removable and they work great.

 

There is a mod existing that says "You know you want it too" and other phrases, that's maybe the only thing I'd change.

If relationshiprank >2 (or so)

    say "Let's have fun", etc.

 

"It can't be helped" is a dumb line, but don't tell.

 

"I am Your master, dog, service me" (a little over the top but sounds much better than "good slut")

She might only be One person's outlet, why should that make her a slut?

After 130 repetitions it grates.

"I am not a slave" instead of "I am not a slut" makes less sense than some banter about being slutty.

Better

"I am no slut"

"You are, you were born to serve"

OK whatever serves as talking trash in Skyrim

 

Making more dialogue variety is always on my list, just not moving very fast.

[Wykes]

 

I mean you make a good point about collars marking slaves "taken" in traditional context, but I made two assumptions, one that you were being attacked by people who thought you were free use because your master wasn't with you and it was a sign that you were submissive in the first place, and would be worth approaching. Follower being with you acting as your master used to lock DEC from allowing approaches, but chase added dialogue that required you to still be approachable, so now we're in an odd spot where I feel dialogue should be tweaked but I haven't been in the mood to change it.

 

Oh, I wasn't suggesting you change anything.  I was more interested in the meta-discussion (i.e. my being full of shit).

 

I find it interesting the way that a sub-dom relationship gets reflected in something as limiting as a game.  Almost by necessity, a sub becomes a wallflower, and a dom becomes some larger-than-life slaver, hell-bent on subjugating the world under their heel.  The reality is something else.  Many players would probably like to be subs to one character only, and happily trample on the corpse of anyone else who thought they could take liberties with them.  Giving the player this kind of autonomy while still allowing random NPCs opportunities to 'properly' enslave the character would be quite delicate work, I think.

[Verstort]

My skyrim install is broken, can't run FNIS without an error through MO.

 

Maybe reinstalling skyrim will fix, otherwise I'm out until new FNIS or Mod organizer by the looks of it, so short hiatus.

 

This esp fixes some bugged follower dialogue that showed up on non-follower, non-friendly NPCs, over and over again.

Deviously Enslaved.esp

[Zor2k13]

Hey does anything in this mod decrease the relationship rank of a follower? At one point I had lydia down to -2 and don't know if it is this mod doing it or SD mod. I had to use console commands to set her back to 3 or ally.

[Verstort]

If it is DEC, it's a bug and not intended.

 

I've seen relationship jump expectantly (other mods), but not fall. I can double check, but I doubt it's DEC. I don't recall even having used the command to modify relationship of an actor before.

 

Edit: decided to start searching through my mod list looking for mods that lower relationship through papyrus, so far only defeat comes up (search is slow)

 

Edit2: Looks like PAH messes with relationship too, Mia's, Maria's, SD+, I'm too lazy to go through them all to see where each one lowers relationship to see if they might be the culprit though...

[Zor2k13]

Could this be the disposition threshold option from SD doing this? I have been wondering why I can get dialogue from the Enslaved! quest from that mod even though my character is not enslaved.

[Verstort]

I had a bug earlier where my follower would talk to my character like they were the master and my character was the slave, SkyrimLL said it shouldn't be happening based on the debug output I provided.

 

But that was a SLDialogues bug, and I'm not really familliar with all that SLDialogues and SD+ do and what kind of bugs they could have, should probably ask SkyrimLL if your symptoms make sense to him.

[Zor2k13]

Ok found it the bug is from maria eden mod. That mod is the only one that asks the player to turn around before releasing them so it is that dialogue topic from maria eden mod doing the rank changing I have no idea why though except there is a bug for the whoring quests because this sort of thing is part of the extra dialogues for whoring where you ask if the npc wants to tie up the player for extra 20 septims. So if the whoring fails the player is still tied up and maybe the rank is decreased if the whoring fails?

 

So I gotta post this over there now at least I found out what it was.

[Lyreal]

I had a bug earlier where my follower would talk to my character like they were the master and my character was the slave, SkyrimLL said it shouldn't be happening based on the debug output I provided.

 

But that was a SLDialogues bug, and I'm not really familliar with all that SLDialogues and SD+ do and what kind of bugs they could have, should probably ask SkyrimLL if your symptoms make sense to him.

 

Sometimes I get that too, that my enslaved follower get the "Master?" dialogues.