RitualClarity Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 At first I was unsure I would get this game but now I am excited but I am gonna wait for an extra 2 to 3 years for all the good mods (including lovers lab to come along too.) I thought the same as you.. Then I thought perhaps wait untill the modding tools are out and people had a chance to look over the aspects. However perhaps maybe I might want to get it earlier evenif it is just a game. I have gotten games. (many in fact) that I cannot mod or not really worth modding and just play them. Besides. I could have all the play through I wanted with the main game before I mod the shit out of it. . I just wonder how many hours it would take before someone creates a nude mesh for it.. lol. 1 hour.. 2 hours .
Madmartigan34 Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I'm pretty sure ESO did the pasted-on-texture-armor so that they could ram 100s of players into the PVP zone. Stupid PVP! *shakes fist @*
Jexsam Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Skyrim kinda did do a really shit job of adding in body scaling. Body scaling done right should be much easier to mod for since it should use only one base mesh. The trick, then, will not be making two meshes for min and max weight with everything done precisely right, but rather just making sure the one mesh you make doesn't clip on the extreme ends of the vanilla extent of the sliders. Better yet, I rather hope the body scaling for FO4 is done like the face sculpting. It would eliminate the need for a BodySlide equivalent, and (almost) eliminate the need for more than one decent new body mesh.
Sacremas Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I'm just as opinionated as you. I wasn't talking about you. Um, were you talking about me then? You gotta be more specific when telling people to fuck off man! ALso to clarify, I've never modded a mesh so I had no idea about the double mesh thing. I assumed it worked via nodes. Damn Bodyslide and UUNP has to be a freaking nightmare if that's the case then.
Kendo 2 Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I don't have a problem with body scaling, per se. I have a problem with making two meshes exactly the same, but shaped differently. Double the work load for minimal results. The only other body scaling I've messed with was a few of the functions for Saints Row 3 and Genesis morph packs for 3DPoser back when the Victoria4 body was new. SR3 was limited but it was for a game. Virtually ANYTHING was possible with Genesis and V4 (fat, skinny or anything in between for any body section you want). IF FO4 uses body morphs and ONE body mesh then I'm all for body scaling. If they did it for FO4 the way they did for Skyrim it will just be one more Bethesda game I'll tinker with for a little while and not mod seriously.
RitualClarity Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I wonder if the "issues" we experience modding are just because they don't understand or they can't actually make it easier. Someone stated the process that required FNIS was because of licensed software that they couldn't release with the modding tools. (can't remember who said that or where.. lol). Issues with Skyirm's body scaling.. (which I had no idea it was that hard to work with ..especially with all the body options we seem to have from modders ) is something they are stuck with engine wise. Could it be that the creators of the game do understand the modding process (they create the game and are developers so they do know a thing about textures and such) and cannot do better. (NOTE: this isn't about the story or limited scripts it is only about the limited or convoluted methods needed to mod the game) The engine they are using is the same correct? Just modified over and over and over and over. I am sure that it is reaching its end of usefulness. As much as a pain as it would be to start over with the tools and such, wouldn't it be better if they actually created a proper 64bit engine with the tools and resources designed to mod efficiently?
Sacremas Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I'm hoping Fallout 4 will be the end of this engine, and TESVI will have a new one. After all they got iD Software under their umbrella, and while the Johns may have left that they should still be more than competent at putting together a better engine for them.
panthercom Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 It would be nice if the people making bodies actually collaborated with each other instead of fucking off and doing whatever they please - No more Beta/VHS UNP/CBBE bullshit again; just a universal and highly flexible standard and a lot of time and effort saved to do other things. Tits, pussy and ass; what else do you need?
RitualClarity Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I'm hoping Fallout 4 will be the end of this engine, and TESVI will have a new one. After all they got iD Software under their umbrella, and while the Johns may have left that they should still be more than competent at putting together a better engine for them. What is ID software bringing to the table for them? Forgive my ignorance. Hopefully nothing bad.. .
Redflyingmonkey Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I don't have a problem with body scaling, per se. I have a problem with making two meshes exactly the same, but shaped differently. Double the work load for minimal results. The only other body scaling I've messed with was a few of the functions for Saints Row 3 and Genesis morph packs for 3DPoser back when the Victoria4 body was new. SR3 was limited but it was for a game. Virtually ANYTHING was possible with Genesis and V4 (fat, skinny or anything in between for any body section you want). IF FO4 uses body morphs and ONE body mesh then I'm all for body scaling. If they did it for FO4 the way they did for Skyrim it will just be one more Bethesda game I'll tinker with for a little while and not mod seriously. You don't absolutely need to provide both of the scaled mesh converts, you could just force people to use the weight your body was designed for ! I know it's not the best solution but hey, if transforming the mesh to suit the different scales is that bothersome you can still force people not to use what you did not do and want to do. I got a shit ass ton of custom converts and ports I'll probably never share since I'm too lazy to ask for permission, and I've never once did more than one version, it's not that big of a deal to stay at the same weight all game long and just modify shit you don't like with RM's extended sliders IG, in skyrim. But yeah, talking about bodies, I do think like you, if it's gonna be another cluster fuck of different body mods where you need like 6 files all the damn time just to load a body mesh, it gets annoying pretty quick. Morphs would indeed be easier and faster. And we could finally make use of 3ds like it was meant to be used ...
RitualClarity Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I was just thinking on the demo. The scene where they customize the weapons. God I hope they didn't create a need to have 10 different models for a weapon..
Sacremas Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I'm hoping Fallout 4 will be the end of this engine, and TESVI will have a new one. After all they got iD Software under their umbrella, and while the Johns may have left that they should still be more than competent at putting together a better engine for them. What is ID software bringing to the table for them? Forgive my ignorance. Hopefully nothing bad.. . Oh, you know. Nothing much. Just this tired old thing. Looks kinda dated and PG-13. Bargain bin.
Sacremas Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I noted Left for Dead, FEAR and oh yeah, Gears of War, you know the games where you have these rifles with chainsaws on you use to saw up enemies?
Guest endgameaddiction Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I don't know about id software as I've never played any games (that I can think of) that used the engine. I know there's many critics of RAGE, but I've been wanting to give that game a shot. Looks cool, but one thing is viewing it and another playing it. DOOM just looks badass. One of the games at E3 apart from Fallout 4 that I do want to play. Even the snap map (i think it's called?) looks cool, but I'm not sure I will get that deep into DOOM.
Sacremas Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Closest to Doom of more recent games would probably be last two Wolfenstein games. I'm betting Doom isn't structured all too differently, though there's supposed to be some degree of freedom in moving around and completing objectives. So basically like the original Doom 1 and 2 then, rather than like Doom 3, which tried and failed at being more of a survival horror thing rather than the visceral gore fest Doom's always supposed to be. I'm just hoping there will be a black medkit somewhere to pick up. You grab it, and you got super strength, run around punch monsters so hard they explode. They already put the BFG9000 in it after all. Oh and just wait for it, if it hasn't happened already some console moron born yesterday is going to go "A guy with a SPARTAN lookalike armor shooting aliens? This is such a Halo copy!" Master Chief, meet your progenitor. First game I ever got for PC. Also first game I ever modded. Damn I feel old now. Even if I was 12 when I did it.
afa Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Other than the legacy of Doom, Quake, and Wolf, Id was (still is I hope?) an engine power house. First person games probably won't be what it is today without them. Then comes Unreal and Source. Bethesda picking up Id was interesting. I of course can't say for certain in terms of technical or financial reasons, but from outside looking in Bethesda's creation engine feels like it is reaching its limits and when you compare it to the likes of Unreal and Source it really doesn't seems like it offers much in terms of popularity, ease of use, and flexibility. Bringing Id under its umbrella could shake things up for them, but of course what is Id at this point in time is difficult to say. Or having access to its library alone might be profitable enough. For what it is worth even Call of Duty still have to pay tribute to Id even just barely. As for body in FO4, quite frankly I don't think anyone should have high hopes for it. First it will never be a body that will serve the needs of those involve in LL. Nudity is just not something that will come standard. Animation and fidelity will not be up to par with what LL mods need versus what the game itself needs. The low weight and high weight meshes might have been troublesome, but it did offer weight scaling that wasn't really around in previous titles.
RitualClarity Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 I didn't remember until now about ID's engine. That is a powerhouse. Someone I know in RL states that is one sweet engine. If they can take that apart. (since they own it and not rent it as I believe is the case for GAmebro) they can modify it a bit to be extremely mod friendly. This might be very good indeed. While it appears id has much to gain from the merger, we're more intrigued by what Bethesda can gain. While Fallout 3 has earned heaps of critical praise, many will agree that graphics tech is far from Bethesda's strong suit. With Carmack and idTech now owned by ZeniMax, future Bethesda titles are sure to benefit. See John Carmack's statement after the break."This puts id Software in a wonderful position going forward," said John Carmack, who will continue to serve in his current role as Technical Director. "We will now be able to grow and extend all of our franchises under one roof, leveraging our capabilities across multiple teams while enabling forward looking research to be done in the service of all of them. We will be bigger and stronger, as we recruit the best talent to help us build the landmark games of the future. As trite as it may be for me to say that I am extremely pleased and excited about this deal, I am." from http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/24/bethesda-parent-company-buys-id-software/
Kendo 2 Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 I must have missed the blurb about being able to sculpt the body. If there are no sliders anywhere in chargen that makes sense. Skyrim only has one human head mesh and the lower vertices scale with the body sliders, so it is feasible. I hope they have some good presets this go-round for African and Asian based races. The ones in FO3 were pretty bad. I was finally able to get good African American presets after a lot of struggling. Skyrim wasn't any better with the Redguards. I'm anxious to see how they will handle face sculpting in the new GECK. The chargen render window in the FO3 GECK and the CK was small, even when fully expanded. Hopefully they will have a better interface for it.
Kidaen Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 It would be nice if the people making bodies actually collaborated with each other instead of fucking off and doing whatever they please - No more Beta/VHS UNP/CBBE bullshit again; just a universal and highly flexible standard and a lot of time and effort saved to do other things. Tits, pussy and ass; what else do you need? While it would certainly be nice to have a flexible standard, it's about as unrealistic and Bethesda actually building the system the correct way in the first place. People have different preferences when it comes to body shapes, so the people with the capability to make their game fit their preferences are going to do just that, and then the people that make armor mods are going to make those for their favorite body. It's like that all the way down. The only way a flexible standard is happening is if the people making the Script Extender do it and include it as part of F4SE.
Kendo 2 Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Yeah, I don't see Bethesda including vanilla female body morph support for the gigantic boob and ass fans. If they actually do use one body mesh with Genesis style morph packs there will probbaly be one base body shape (the mesh itself) and then a range of morphs to scale down or up. Knowing Bethesda, it will be limited. As for one body mod everyone will use; not gonna happen. In the early days of Oblvion there were several body mods. Now everyone uses something based on HGEC. For FO3 there were a few body mods. Now everyone uses something based on Type3. For Skyrim everyone uses something based on UNP or Caliente. Even though the field is narrowing with choices there will still be modders who do not like what is available and will branch off on their own. The BIG question is what mesh format the game will use; nifs, upks, umaps or something else. Depending on the format, there might not be scripts for 3DMax or Blender to read them. Todd Howard stated they are using a 2nd gen version of the Creation Engine. What that means for NetImmerse/GameBryo files and the software than can manipulate them is anyone's guess. And if what happened at sourceforge and Niftools with Skyrim happens again with FO4 we might be fucked as far as doing ANY mesh edits. There is simply no way of knowing. To us, modding means meshes, textures, scripts, esps or esms. To Bethesda, modding means scripts packed into their format for quests and gimmick mods. They don't care about mesh edits or Nexus style retextures of things they already have. They want shit they don't have, and that's content that adds play time to the base game.
wulfy1 Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 I do not care if there are several, I just wish people would discuss and agree on a UV layout to keep textures from being incompatible. In every game it becomes a huge pain in the ass to get the meshes you want and ensure that the textures match. Skyrim is now to a point where it is pretty easy, but for a while there it was rough. Kendo, I agree that Bethsoft thinks of things that way, but they really shouldn't. If it wasn't for the various mesh/texture mods out there and the various manipulations of meshes (weighting, HDT, custom skeletons, and all the things that stem from those) several thousand people would have no further interest in Skyrim. Bethsoft needs to get their collective head around what people want for the long haul and though quest mods are super important, they are no more important than the jiggly bits that keep us sex fiends interested. Next time you are having dinner at Todd Howard's place, pass that on for us Wulf P.S. As for the real reason I was posting on this... I am really excited by what I have seen so far. This is going to be a lot of fun to play and maybe I will be inspired enough to get back into modding. I may have to sign up for the Kendo school of modding to begin to grasp the concept of scripting in the more advanced games. Hell I could not even figure out dialogues in Skyrim. Had to take a nap every six minutes when i tried to learn it. If some of you super modders out there could figure out how to do a good set of "for dummies" tutorials and keep them in a central location, I could probably learn it the way I did Oblivion, but I know that is a lot to ask for. Regardless, I am really hyped about FO4. BTW, don't get me wrong, I knwo there are a million tutorials for skyrim, but they seemed to come in generations (Pre-CK, Post-CK, pre-peoplefiguringouthowtodothings, etc etc) and they all got sort of lumped together. It made it tough to jump in and start learning. (This is not a complaint, just a justification for my laziness).
RitualClarity Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Kendo, I agree that Bethsoft thinks of things that way, but they really shouldn't. There is a lot of things that Bethesda should think of differently. I am hopeful that they are thinking along those lines now that they realize that the paid for issue exploded. Perhaps they investigated it a bit further. Making a easily modifiable game will make it easier to accept the paid for system provided it is introduced when the mod tools are. However.. Since there can be mods for X-box now.. There might be even less options available, but that can also signal the opposite as well. That they want and are going to embrace the mod community as much as legally and technically possible. I may have to sign up for the Kendo school of modding to begin to grasp the concept of scripting in the more advanced games. I can't speak for Kendo however based on what i have seen.. If Bethesda keeps on "fucking up their shit". (How I believe Kendo would phrase it ) there will be a very, very, small "Kendo School of Modding".. .
Wonders of Eros Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 And about 6 months till I can get me some of that Ghoul-pussy. <-- Possible mod-request???
Kendo 2 Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 You know I just had the strangest thought. "Mods for XBox" could they actually be using the Microsoft "X" format for meshes within these mods? how far does it mean "NexGen Version of the Creation Engine" this has gone? Does Microsoft still use and require there own format be used for games that are "Games For XBox" ? hmmm I'll have to look into what format XBONE requires. Good lord... *palms face* I didn't even consider that. But there has to be a way to get access to XBox game binaries and libraries. I've seen Gears of War mods for New Vegas. IF Bethesda uses an XBox format for the PC version, Nexus had better get a hand full of cheek and kiss its ass goodbye, since getting meshes and textures via the ISO will be a crack and ILLEGAL. This goes back to my earlier point about what we think of as modding and what Bethesda thinks is modding.
Sacremas Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Keep in mind they really want mods for the PS4 as well, so it needs to be a format both of them can read.
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