Kendo 2 Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 You cannot sell your mod (without paying us), because the stuff you make using our game and tools belongs to us. That's what I get from the EULA. They are just making sure that nobody else can sell mods for the game other than Bethesda. Yep. And the EULA wouldn't be worded the way it is unless there was the eventuality of monetized modding. Previous Bethesda EULAs devoted maybe 10 lines to 'we own it and you can't sell it'. Now it comprises almost a 3rd of the licence. That's a lot of legal consideration for something that 'isn't going to happen'.
DoctaSax Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 The odd thing is - it seems to claim exclusive copyright on mods made by US modders only.
panthercom Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 If Bethesda is smart, they'll release a DLC that allows you to play other types of characters besides Ma or Pa. Like a bounty hunter that could be paid to track down a kid for the already fully voiced vault dweller character. Pay a few grand each for some other voice actors and the cost of scripting and QC, and there you go.
windpl Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 1. I was under impression that you play as that kid. No? 2. They didn't said that paid mods wont gona happen. 3. IP copyright law works internationally. (agreement between countries)
bjornk Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 1. I was under impression that you play as that kid. No? It appears you start the game as one of the parents and the plot is apparently finding the kid. Don't know if you can play as the kid later in the game.
Kendo 2 Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 The odd thing is - it seems to claim exclusive copyright on mods made by US modders only. That's all they have to do. If Bethesda.net is hosted in the United States the only laws it is subject to are U.S. ones. Anyone who does business with them will be subject too regardless of what country they might live in. The business transcations will take place on U.S. soil, the point of transfer for goods or services and the payment. I ship compressor parts all over the world but the point of origin is here in the U.S. My buyers have to pay all of the taxes and whatever tariffs originate in their own countries. I make them eat all of that and I pay for the shipping. Electronic transfers work the same as physical points of sale.
Guest Mogie56 Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 The only exclusive copyright is for "Customized Game Materials" not mods you make from your own meshes that you created or texture you created. in other words you can't customized there assets and claim them as your own. You can however create your own. the wording is somewhat misleading but we have to understanding what "Game Materials" means. any developer does the same thing, but they all have there own legal wording. This post is also in response to DoctaSax and no one else.
afa Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 7 days isn't the real wait, the real wait is how the modding scene will turns out.
windpl Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 1. I was under impression that you play as that kid. No? It appears you start the game as one of the parents and the plot is apparently finding the kid. Don't know if you can play as the kid later in the game. Well I have felling that I'm not wrong, they were to proud about "how the kid looks two of it parents" to not put it in spotlight. And If there will be no sandstorm in game I will be utterly disappointed. MadMax has it, MG solid has it even fucking dragon age has it. Sandstorms are cool, well in games IRL they sux ;p
lordescobar666 Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 You cannot sell your mod (without paying us), because the stuff you make using our game and tools belongs to us. That's what I get from the EULA. They are just making sure that nobody else can sell mods for the game other than Bethesda. Yep. And the EULA wouldn't be worded the way it is unless there was the eventuality of monetized modding. Previous Bethesda EULAs devoted maybe 10 lines to 'we own it and you can't sell it'. Now it comprises almost a 3rd of the licence. That's a lot of legal consideration for something that 'isn't going to happen'. In contrast, the german version has a much smaller section that deals with mods. It basically says no copyrighted material, no modified executabled, ... (usual piracy related stuff), obey the law (e.g. juvenile law), neither you nor any third party may charge money for mods, we do not provide support for the creation kit. It says nothing about "we own everything you make". They even don't reserve the right to use content you created with the CK for promotions or advertisement. Also no need to properly "credit" Bethesda. And "Bethesda encourages the distribution of high quality mods" [interesting to read such a sentence in a legal document].
Kendo 2 Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 The only exclusive copyright is for "Customized Game Materials" not mods you make from your own meshes that you created or texture you created. in other words you can't customized there assets and claim them as your own. You can however create your own. the wording is somewhat misleading but we have to understanding what "Game Materials" means. any developer does the same thing, but they all have there own legal wording. Yeah WE know that. The question is whether Bethesda cares if we know they can't stake claim to things they have no interest in. The licence wording is intentionally ambiguous in their favor and the written implication is they own everything if you make it work with their game. They can't legally claim process that will work regardless of a Bethesda platform or not. That doesn't mean they would try and they would probably get away with it if they did. Their army of lawers would counter sue and stall and the orginal artist would give up unless they were backed by another corporation with just as much legal stroke as Bethesda. They are phrasing the licence in a way to break in their favor because that's what corporations do. If they fuck over one person who's standing alone they'll win, and they'll probably get a gag order on who ever they fucked to prevent them from talking about it online or going to the press with it.
RitualClarity Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 The odd thing is - it seems to claim exclusive copyright on mods made by US modders only. Legal protection in case they add something to the game that looks like or might be mistaken for someone's work.. this is the likely reason for this. To protect themselves from lawsuits. Their legal team likely believes that it is less important for other countries (property rights etc) are different. If Bethesda is smart, they'll release a DLC that allows you to play other types of characters besides Ma or Pa. Like a bounty hunter that could be paid to track down a kid for the already fully voiced vault dweller character. Pay a few grand each for some other voice actors and the cost of scripting and QC, and there you go. WE don't know the DLCs that they will be creating. It is possibly an alternate start or different start situation.
DoctaSax Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 The only exclusive copyright is for "Customized Game Materials" not mods you make from your own meshes that you created or texture you created. in other words you can't customized there assets and claim them as your own. You can however create your own. the wording is somewhat misleading but we have to understanding what "Game Materials" means. any developer does the same thing, but they all have there own legal wording. Wish we had someone from Beth's legal team explaining what they mean by that phrase, really. The introduction to that section doesn't seem to restrict it to customizations of in-game assets, but also mentions newly constructed stuff as falling under 'customized game materials'. Since pretty much the entire game is their asset they can stretch that to include pretty much everything made with and for the game. Not saying that they will do this for just about anything, but it's a level of vagueness I don't like.
bjornk Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 "Customized Game Materials" just covers the mods you make (create/modify) using their tools and assets, like the stuff you create using the CK. They cannot claim ownership of something if they have not contributed to its creation in any sort of way, such a mesh created in a 3D editor, a texture created in PS, a DLL compiled with VS etc.
Guest Mogie56 Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 Well it states anything made with the "Tools" blender and 3ds max do not fall under tools that they own so they cannot restrict and or limit what is made with those tools even if it is made "for" their game. Made with the "Tools" would be anything you can make inside those tools for that particular software(game). Now if it means once it is "IN" the game it becomes their's then I doubt many will be making mods for release and they will have basically shot themselves in the foot. But I think it means anything released to "Bethesda.net" even though it doesn't mention Beth.net. and yes It would be nice if their legal team explained it without all the mumbo jumbo. Maybe a good place to ask would be their blog. The End of the EULA Jurisdiction. ENGLISH LAWS GOVERN THIS AGREEMENT, REGARDLESS OF EACH COUNTRY’S CHOICE OF LAW PRINCIPLES, WITH A FORUM AND VENUE OF LONDON, ENGLAND. This Agreement may be modified only by a written instrument specifying the modification and executed by both parties. In the event that any provision of this Agreement shall be held to be unenforceable, such provision shall be enforced to the greatest possible extent, with the other provisions of this Agreement to remain in full force and effect. This post is in response to DocaSax and no one else.
Sacremas Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 When she's leaning forward to talk it's like she's saying WOOF! WOOF! And I was called a troll for pointing out those animations. Go figure. You got really butthurt about that didn't you? Don't tell me it's your first time? I asked if you were trolling because you posted the wrong video and made me look through a video I didn't care about. That was the absolute full extent of my comment's reason. If you had posted the correct one which you did afterwards, I would have agreed with you entirely. Get over it already.
Kendo 2 Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 I think Bethesda.net is going to take a page from STEAM's playbook and pull the 'if you upload it here, we own it all' thing. And yeah, they need to make available the definitions in that license if modders are going to be entering into business agreements with them. Legally, everything they have capitalized or in quotes has a definition somewhere. They wouldn't style the license that way if they didn't. One thing, modders who intend to get paid for mods by uploading to Bethesda.net had better get their licensing shit together and understand what they're dealing with.
Kendo 2 Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 When she's leaning forward to talk it's like she's saying WOOF! WOOF! And I was called a troll for pointing out those animations. Go figure. You got really butthurt about that didn't you? Don't tell me it's your first time? I asked if you were trolling because you posted the wrong video and made me look through a video I didn't care about. That was the absolute full extent of my comment's reason. If you had posted the correct one which you did afterwards, I would have agreed with you entirely. Get over it already. Now who's trolling? This is like the third time you've come at me sideways and stupid for no reason. I have a solution for that though.
Sacremas Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 I think it's pretty inevitable that they'll put a membership fee on Bethesda.net. If they don't do it to begin with they will when the mods start coming in at a rate of a hundred per day and they need to hire more people to look through them. I doubt the additional copies sold on consoles due to mods being available will justify the expense, considering consoles already sold more copies of Fallout 3 than PC did without having mods. Really wouldn't surprise me at all if the fee is up when Bethesda.net launches already. Then depending on DRM of mods or not (I'm guessing not, it's too stupid to try, but... so was paid mods), if mod don't have to go through Bethesda.net to be uploaded to a PC, it won't even kill off Nexus like it would as a free service. I kinda really wish they'd cut Steam out of the equation entirely and introduce their own version of Origin/etc to go with this, even if quite a few people would be annoyed by it.
Captain Cobra Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 OH BOY ANOTHER DUMB DRM PLATFORM I NEED TO REMEMBER A PASSWORD FOR, I CAN'T WAIT.
Sacremas Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 I tried taking this to PM's because this thread has been too filthied up already, and there's some good discussions now on legalities I almost interrupted. Rest of you please ignore this, nothing going on here and only reason it's not in PM is because Kendo's being a whatyecallit about it and blocking me, despite my last PM from him showing no hostility at all. Kendo, please reply to this with a PM if you would? When she's leaning forward to talk it's like she's saying WOOF! WOOF! And I was called a troll for pointing out those animations. Go figure. You got really butthurt about that didn't you? Don't tell me it's your first time? I asked if you were trolling because you posted the wrong video and made me look through a video I didn't care about. That was the absolute full extent of my comment's reason. If you had posted the correct one which you did afterwards, I would have agreed with you entirely. Get over it already. Now who's trolling? This is like the third time you've come at me sideways and stupid for no reason. I have a solution for that though. Third time? Sorry I'm not following, all I'm saying is explaining why I asked if you were trolling. Reread my comment if you have to it, it wasn't "GTFO Troll!" it was "Trolling much?" as in asking if you were trolling us, not actually saying you were a troll. There is a difference, and I expressed it that way because obviously I don't think you're troll. I think bjornk is a troll but you always have somethng to contribute to the discussions, as in that specific case where if you had posted the right link I would have totally agreed with you, those are some really shitty animations, cringe-worthy. I do have other words for you, mainly primadonna who can never handle being pointed out as wrong, but this is hardly a failing you're alone in, I get pissed when my own bullshit is pointed out as well. On the whole I'd rather call it "internet fatigue" sort of coming from that "food for thought" thing the Moogie posted, basically we all have to keep up such solid shields against the banality of the internet and the constant attacks (have you ever tried commenting on youtube? God those people/kids are actually animals) that sometimes it's a bit over-agressive and we counterattack when the original purpose was mostly benign, because we're so used to it. I have done it at least 5-6 times on these forums when it wasn't called for at all. Do point out the other two times though, and I'll try to either explain or apologize. EDIT: Never mind folks, nothing going on here, Kendo 2 has decided to be a "sensible adult" about it and completely blocked all interaction with me due to the above very very hurtful post I attacked him with. So I guess it's a state of live and let live then. Can't believe it even gets to that state in these forums, I thought we were the adult side of modding...
Guest Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 ... all you said ... Just breathe and let it pass. Your comments are always valuable, don't get upset for some people that use rude language (and are ignoring your posts and/or your PMs.)
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