Jack of All Trades Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I like how people are actually discussing this game on this forum, where over at Youtube there's just a bunch of arrogant trolls trying to get a rise out of people XD
Riggswolfe Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 On the dialogue concerns: While I too enjoy knowing exactly what my character is going to say I don't think modders will have a hard time with it. A) We've already seen mods in Skyrim that make unvoiced conversations possible by more or less adding a dummy sound file that is empty. B ) It will probably be trivial to add a "more dialogue" option or something. It will also likely work like the older conversations in one way. As you drill down into a conversation choice you'll eventually come to an option that takes you back to the original dialogue choices.
Gameplayer Posted June 17, 2015 Author Posted June 17, 2015 You can Pistol Whip people and there appears to be a grenade key, the player doesn't put the pistol away when throwing nades. ------------------ I hate those trolls Anyway, After having watched the video again, I've seen stuff I've been wanting in the base game of Fallout to be there without having to use a series of mods to get it. A lot of the gameplay features I used Project Nevada to get are there already!
bjornk Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Bjornk you're a fan of Black Desert, maybe you should just shut the fuck up already about dumbed down games. I'm not a *fan* of Black Desert, in fact I never play MMOs, let alone Korean ones, but I like certain features of it. Maybe you should shut the fuck up about things you have no idea about.
Guest endgameaddiction Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Watch the intro video again. It's nothing fancy mind you and looks more like what we have seen in Skyrim fan hair. Long Hair has physics. You'll notice the wifes hair isn't stiff as a board when she tilts her head. You realize that if you cant get re-married in game that it'll be a "Hearth Fire DLC" probably. I don't know... I noticed the hair physics during the baby moment where she tilts her head and seeing her hair move, but during the CharGen it's was stiff as a rock. I think it's just the cutscene where it moves. I hope not, but hair physics isn't something that bothers me so long as it's not exaggerating movements like in Skyrim. As long as it doesn't clip through the body with custom hairs, I'm happy. I wouldn't want marriage in game, even though it's possible, but it'll be tedious like Skyrim if so. A love story would be nice (if done right). Or having the possible dialogue to interact with emotions since the facial expressions are there. If it's like generic dialogue with no names in it, this can be applied to custom followers. Otherwise we'll need some voice actors to fill in this gap.
Gameplayer Posted June 17, 2015 Author Posted June 17, 2015 I did notice a heck of a lot of emotion face animations and the dogs ears and tail move quite a bit in the gameplay clip. With how polished up the first person experience appears to be it'll be a lot of fun just playing in 1st and maybe if the animations don't cut it well in third I wont mind so much waiting for some decent animations from a talented person out there. I really like the third person stuff for Skyrim, its really come a long way...Kinda hard to predict how things will be in Fo4 actually. I happen to know that the skeletons are very different in Fo3 and Skyrim for instance. Perhaps since so many talented authors are out there I shouldn't be bothered to dwell on that, we might get some of the same stuff we use now in Skyrim just a matter of time.
trpd Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 @"limited" dialogue options Yes they are done so you don't feel bored when character speaks the line you had read already. It is hardly dumbing down as answers were limited already by voicing so at the most you could get more options with same answer - not much of change. Argueably it can be better for immersion if you silence PC as you can create the sentance yourself and not be locked to ready one. The one challange there is to have abbreviations well reflect what PC will say what is not always the case. But i've been overally happy how it works in other games . And here you can always hope for mods to the rescue :3 When it comes to limitations for sake of mods adding dialogue options - ii think it wont take long for mod that change it into good old list. (or maybe it is there already with K&M controlls) @Romance in Bethesda game - no f way... if we will get one better start buliding bomb shelter of your own.
Redflyingmonkey Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I'm not a *fan* of Black Desert, in fact I never play MMOs, let alone Korean ones, but I like certain features of it. Maybe you should shut the fuck up about things you have no idea about. THIS. We agree then. How about changing "things you have no idea about", but to Fallout 4 which only has a trailer and some minutes of gameplay so far ? That is called a checkmate, and I so long to read you explain to me how much we know about this game from 3 minutes of actual gameplay. Please though, you're fanboying all over the place for BD, as your profile pictures shows, and as your posts in the Black Desert topic shows. But whatever, let's stop at "you should shut the fuck up about things you have no idea about", there is a clear consensus here.
GrimReaper Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 You choose "A: Get food" dialogue option, hoping to get some food obviously, why else would you choose that otherwise? What does your character say instead? "Sure, I need a minute to think", and doesn't get any food. What I'm trying to say is that it's almost impossible to predict where these options of two or three word sentences will take you. That's the reason why I said... How anyone can construct a meaningful dialogue with sentences that contain only a few words is beyond me. You know, for someone that complains and speculates about dumbed down games you display an amazing inability to watch a simple presentation. And you didn't even bother to check if you misheard things, no, you just open your mouth and words come out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWuwLSFmATI Around minute 6 the dialogue about food starts. The MC is obviously confused by being gone for 200 years and the robo-butler asks if he wants some food. Still confused, he says: What, Food? Yeah, sure, I guess. I need a minute to think. The robot then proceeds to hover into the house to get something to eat. The Main character says yes to the food but didn't magically forget that he apparently was gone for 200 years. The dialogue has a coherent mood and doesn't switch magically from oh shit what's going on to something else. You know, I think that dumbed down games might actually be just the thing you want, without even realizing it.
DoctaSax Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 A good dialogue system is the one that lets you say precisely what you want to say, and precisely how you want to say it and it is not this one. Show me a single game that has this. Typical reaction. Positivity = fanboyism. Actually, this is one of the typical responses I get from fanboys, they never accept being one, naturally. Some other typical responses I get from fanboys are "Shut up!", "If you don't like the game, don't play it!", "We don't want to hear your criticism, go create your own hate thread!". Criticize anything they like and they take it personally. Criticism equals negativity for them. I never have any problem with people opposing my ideas with rational arguments and I never try to silence them or attack them. Only the fanboys "derail" these threads. Yeah, sure, it's the fanboys that do this, not the people calling beth amateurs because they haven't developed an unholy blend of mind reading what every single player wants their character to say and how to say it at any given time to anyone, and an AI so advanced it can have NPCs react to all that in a sensible manner. That's not criticism, it's reaching for something negative to say.
Redflyingmonkey Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Dude that real time settlement building looks kind of promising. They're really going down the "playing house" road since the RTS mod on FO3/FNV and Hearthfire. Pretty sure the guy who made RTS has been hired by them since he released the mod, I remember having a lot of fun with that one mod. If vehicles are confirmed at some point, imagine going from settlement to settlement, managing the communities you've built, on your fancy bike... Pretty interested by the new "feel" of the main character, I mean he's not a lone ranger anymore, he has to build colonies, and it seems like I've seen him get some air support with a smoking grenade in one trailer, where a huge heli comes to pick him up and he just takes the machine gun in the back. I like that, but I also hope at the same time that it is only a "possible road", as in you have the choice between accepting help from whoever those guys are or just playing as a lone wolf, building houses for yourself alone and stuff. Can't see anything that would show otherwise, but as we don't know the story yet, we can't know if it'll lock you forcefully into the "savior" role at some point by having you create communities to continue main quests or something, I'm praying this doesn't happen. I usually role play FO games are a huge opportunist, taking help whenever it is offered but never giving anything back in return unless there is something down the road for me. When I was in a tight spot financially speaking, I'd never say no to ambushing unsuspecting travelers on the road. Now with their "caravans" system, NPCs travelling between settlements you've built yourself, attacking them would be simply ridiculous lol, I mean you're harming your own business here. At the same time, waiting for income from your cut on the travelling merchants would break entirely my lone wolf gameplay All in all, Howard you cruel bastard show us more already...
Guest Real Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 The idea that in 2015, a game company with the resources of Bethesda would develop their game around the limitations of a controller only having 4 buttons because a clean solution is too hard... that's just dumb. There's no fucking way. It's not even about having trust in Bethesda as a developer but knowing the developers aren't full retard. Watch the interviews. You'll see Todd Howard didn't once have drool hanging from his chin. Seriously, if the game has only 4 options (cause durp controllers r hurd) the entire way through... I'll politely bow the fuck out and go read books or some shit. For good dialog systems, check out pillars of the ancients. Where dialog is an actual game mechanics and your choices can change your actual strength in combat due to favor with your chosen god. Does every game need to be that in-depth? God please no. When this shit comes out, I wont be worrying about what my character says anyways... I'll be too busy building sand castles in my sandbox.
windu190 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 A good dialogue system is the one that lets you say precisely what you want to say, and precisely how you want to say it and it is not this one. Show me a single game that has this. Dragon Age: Origins, Pillars of Eternity, Elder Scrolls, Fallout. There are plenty. None of it voiced though. Personally, I don't really mind smaller dialogue options as long as it is done right. Mass Effect 3 generally did this right. But in Dragon Age Inquisition there were some dialogue options that did not match with what my character said at all.
Jayce Dimmer Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I just hope we get an alternative dialogue interface, so modders won't need a VA team just to chuck in a few NPCs.
GrimReaper Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 A good dialogue system is the one that lets you say precisely what you want to say, and precisely how you want to say it and it is not this one. Show me a single game that has this. Dragon Age: Origins, Pillars of Eternity, Elder Scrolls, Fallout. There are plenty. None of it voiced though. Personally, I don't really mind smaller dialogue options as long as it is done right. Mass Effect 3 generally did this right. But in Dragon Age Inquisition there were some dialogue options that did not match with what my character said at all. So you're saying that all possible options were covered in those games? There wasn't a single occasion were you wanted to say something but the game did not give you the ability to do so? I recall many instances were I wanted to say something in an RPG but the devs didn't give me the option to do so. Like in Dragon Age, where companions bitch about the smallest of things when the end of the world is near. I would have loved to shut them up, show them that they behave like retarded little kids because none of this will matter in the slightes if the Blight doesn't get stopped. Like Morrigan leaving the party just before the only fight that matters if she doesn't get what she wants. I mean, you can be an asshole in DAO, but that's not what I mean. You can be understanding but also remind the people that are constanly spouting nonsense that there is a much, much bigger threat looming on the horizon. But the only thing you can do is either being a douche or playing therapist for a bunch of immature (wo)man-children. So no, for me, classic RPGs didn't always give you everything you wanted. Besides, the TellTale games like Walking Dead get praised like mad for their story, atmosphere and dialogues and they too only have 4 choices to pick.
testsubject013 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 the only thing I really want out of the dialogue is the ability to be a sarcastic ass
Redflyingmonkey Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Besides, the TellTale games like Walking Dead get praised like mad for their story, atmosphere and dialogues and they too only have 4 choices to pick. /subject.
Nixea Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 So no, for me, classic RPGs didn't always give you everything you wanted. Besides, the TellTale games like Walking Dead get praised like mad for their story, atmosphere and dialogues and they too only have 4 choices to pick. But but... for some reason, that doesn't count because it hasn't been done in Fallout before and it somehow means it can't possibly work *sarcasm font off*! And in case someone points out that TellTale characters can't be customized, I'd like to point out that the only predefined thing about the ones you control are their appearances, sexes, backgrounds and little else since their personalities will be vastly different depending on the dialog options you pick, which makes them develop different personalities.
BruceWayne Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I also lost my shit when seeing the dialogue menus. I can't think of anything else anymore. I can't sleep, I can't eat. What a disgusting move of Bethesda! How dare they replace the genius one-of-a-kind list format from before. How dare they make dialogue options selectable with hotkeys, instead of scrolling through the menu and select them one by one. We all know that a controller only has four buttons, ergo there will be no circumstance ever where we could have more than four dialogue options. In all seriousness though, people have always complained about Bethesda's dialogue. Now they try something different and some people lose their collective shit again. We can't have it both ways. If the consensus is that Mass Effect style dialogue is best in RPGs, other companies will copy them. This will not make Beth's dialogue magically better (or worse) in any way. The only thing I take away from the trailer is that you can now select dialogue options with hotkeys, which is a welcome addition. Just because there are only 4 choices displayed at any given time, doesn't mean that there can't be more choices. And I think I don't need to remind anyone that the Oblivion/FO3/FNV/Skyrim vanilla UIs don't show more than four or five dialogue choices as well.
Redflyingmonkey Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I also lost my shit when seeing the dialogue menus. I can't think of anything else anymore. I can't sleep, I can't eat. What a disgusting move of Bethesda! How dare they replace the genius one-of-a-kind list format from before. How dare they make dialogue options selectable with hotkeys, instead of scrolling through the menu and select them one by one. We all know that a controller only has four buttons, ergo there will be no circumstance ever where we could have more than four dialogue options. In all seriousness though, people have always complained about Bethesda's dialogue. Now they try something different and some people lose their collective shit again. We can't have it both ways. If the consensus is that Mass Effect style dialogue is best in RPGs, other companies will copy them. This will not make Beth's dialogue magically better in any way. The only thing I take away from the trailer is that you can now select dialogue options with hotkeys, which is a welcome addition. Just because there are only 4 choices displayed at any given time, doesn't mean that there can't be more choices. And I think I don't need to remind anyone that the Oblivion/FO3/FNV/Skyrim vanilla UIs don't show more than four or five dialogue choices as well. Furthermore, as said countless times it's just prompts. Scripting another prompt with a dialogue entry on top of that should be as easy, if not easier than precedent games. Bethesda already knows the best mods use different dialogue entries, they wouldn't just lock the damn thing without having some structure able to host more dialogue lines than the 4 displayed on the video ... Common sense, common sense.
windu190 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 A good dialogue system is the one that lets you say precisely what you want to say, and precisely how you want to say it and it is not this one. Show me a single game that has this. Dragon Age: Origins, Pillars of Eternity, Elder Scrolls, Fallout. There are plenty. None of it voiced though. Personally, I don't really mind smaller dialogue options as long as it is done right. Mass Effect 3 generally did this right. But in Dragon Age Inquisition there were some dialogue options that did not match with what my character said at all. So you're saying that all possible options were covered in those games? There wasn't a single occasion were you wanted to say something but the game did not give you the ability to do so? I recall many instances were I wanted to say something in an RPG but the devs didn't give me the option to do so. Like in Dragon Age, where companions bitch about the smallest of things when the end of the world is near. I would have loved to shut them up, show them that they behave like retarded little kids because none of this will matter in the slightes if the Blight doesn't get stopped. Like Morrigan leaving the party just before the only fight that matters if she doesn't get what she wants. I mean, you can be an asshole in DAO, but that's not what I mean. You can be understanding but also remind the people that are constanly spouting nonsense that there is a much, much bigger threat looming on the horizon. But the only thing you can do is either being a douche or playing therapist for a bunch of immature (wo)man-children. So no, for me, classic RPGs didn't always give you everything you wanted. Besides, the TellTale games like Walking Dead get praised like mad for their story, atmosphere and dialogues and they too only have 4 choices to pick. I think there is a misunderstanding, I thought that with " say precisely what you want to say" Bjornk meant that the dialogue of the player character is exactly the same as the dialogue options you pick. So if I pick the dialogue option "Hello", all my character says is "hello". A lot of games don't do that and give summarized versions of what your character is about to say. Which sometimes causes your character to say something you did not actually want to say. I thought that was what the complaint was about. But yeah it indeed happens quite often where I need a dialogue option that's simply not there. It was the worst in Fable 3. Where you know huge army of evil shadow demons is coming to destroy the world in a year, and you can choose to be a very good king/queen and do all sorts of things to make your kingdom beautiful and happy. But that ultimately results in almost everyone getting slaugthered because you didn't prepare for war. Or you can take the 'evil' option and turn your entire kingdom into one big factory, creating weapons and armies. Causing everyone to hate you, but ultimately safe the kingdom. THIS HAD ME DRIVING UP THE WALL! Why can't I just tell everyone: "An army of demons is coming to kill us all so shut up. We need this shit, or do you rather want to die horribly??"
testsubject013 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 @windu190 fable 3 really didn't have a dialogue system, as for the end part of the game you could be nice to your kingdom and still defeat the demon army. all you had to do is pay for everything out of your character personal treasury. I just hope stuff like the S.P.E.C.I.A.L, skills, and perks still affect what dialogue option are available to the player I like playing as the intelligent smart ass
windu190 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 @windu190 fable 3 really didn't have a dialogue system, as for the end part of the game you could be nice to your kingdom and still defeat the demon army. all you had to do is pay for everything out of your character personal treasury. That would have been possible if the game hadn't suddenly skipped like 5 months and no one payed their rent in that time. I still don't really know what happened there, but the game suddenly skipped a lot of time and went straight to the final battle. But in any case, you know what I mean. There will always be some dialogue options you need that are simply not there. But then again it is to be expected, there is no way to add every possible dialogue option. Everytime you character speaks you would have like 400 pages of dialogue options lol.
Leito86 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I also lost my shit when seeing the dialogue menus. I can't think of anything else anymore. I can't sleep, I can't eat. What a disgusting move of Bethesda! How dare they replace the genius one-of-a-kind list format from before. How dare they make dialogue options selectable with hotkeys, instead of scrolling through the menu and select them one by one. We all know that a controller only has four buttons, ergo there will be no circumstance ever where we could have more than four dialogue options. In all seriousness though, people have always complained about Bethesda's dialogue. Now they try something different and some people lose their collective shit again. We can't have it both ways. If the consensus is that Mass Effect style dialogue is best in RPGs, other companies will copy them. This will not make Beth's dialogue magically better in any way. The only thing I take away from the trailer is that you can now select dialogue options with hotkeys, which is a welcome addition. Just because there are only 4 choices displayed at any given time, doesn't mean that there can't be more choices. And I think I don't need to remind anyone that the Oblivion/FO3/FNV/Skyrim vanilla UIs don't show more than four or five dialogue choices as well. Furthermore, as said countless times it's just prompts. Scripting another prompt with a dialogue entry on top of that should be as easy, if not easier than precedent games. Bethesda already knows the best mods use different dialogue entries, they wouldn't just lock the damn thing without having some structure able to host more dialogue lines than the 4 displayed on the video ... Common sense, common sense. That might be a bit optimistic. From Todd's Interview a day or so ago, his team will design the game the way they want first, then let the modders figure out how to get around their designs, which means it's possible that it may be locked to just 4 response options. I'm interested to see how the dialogue prompts will work on the pc. Maybe a radial that appears when holding "E" over the NPC and you can drag the mouse over the response? Seems clunky.
Guest Real Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Anyone seen anything on whether we're going to have a 64 bit application? Todd made a big deal about how more memory on the current gen consoles is the main reason they can't support previous gen. Think that logically supports a 64 bit app?
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