A little warning to mod creators of non adult mods....

[Erundil]

Also note how GabeN is completely cool and unmoved by this. He's sitting in a cafe sipping coffee at his leisure, browsing emails filled with our outrage.

He's not even treating it seriously. If it was a major concern, he'd read them in his office, sorrounded by Valve co-founders and an army of lawyers.

It's obvious that he was expecting it. Just like we expect some pain after a surgery. He has seen it coming, now it came, he just takes it on according to plan.

They knew all too well how the community will react.

We need to stop treating them [modders] like victims in all of this. You have to remember: they were the ones who agreed to all of this. (...)

 

It's pretty much like Adam blaming Eve blaming the Snake after the former bit the Apple.

 

Only difference is that unlike the biblical story, they don't get to hide behind the contradiction of not knowing what good and evil was (...) They knew good and evil right from the outset.

 

I just wanted to say that I love your comparison. It fits brilliantly
 

[afa]

Arguing the 75/25 split is semantics. That just becomes price negotiation. They know some modders want this and if the modders only wants a bigger cut that is almost a non-issue in this whole thing. If any it might just be the door in the face tactic.

 

Technically Valve doesn't have to care about this debacle, they have been doing fine as a company before this, and this is at best a first minor step in a grander strategy to monetize mod. Getting all fired up and drastic over it isn't going to serve them well in the long run both in terms of if they pour their hearts and soul in this and pulling it back as soon as it goes sideways.

[bjornk]

20,000 supporters versus an angry mob of 98,000 and growing... The situation is more complex than that, obviously, but just looking at those numbers, the majority is clear as day.

It doesn't really matter who the majority is. As long as there are people who are willing to pay money for mods, it's a perfectly viable business model for both Valve and Bethesda, they both make money doing nothing. I'm pretty sure neither will back out. Also, Skyrim will not stay as the only game with pay to play mods, this is only the beginning.

[Jexsam]

And they were rightly so cannon fodder. You have to remember: they were the ones who made a conscious decision to go along with all of this.

 

We need to stop treating them like victims in all of this. You have to remember: they were the ones who agreed to all of this. Maybe they didn't read the find print, maybe they got burned in the end (good.) But they're the ones who made the conscious decision that they felt they needed to "get something" out of modding. They were the ones who made the conscious decision to sell out. They deserve just as much rage if not more than Valve and especially Bethesda.

 

It's pretty much like Adam blaming Eve blaming the Snake after the former bit the Apple.

 

Only difference is that unlike the biblical story, they don't get to hide behind the contradiction of not knowing what good and evil was before eating the apple that gave them the knowledge of good and evil and therefore not knowing that eating of the apple was evil. They don't get plotholes and poor writing to cover them. They knew good and evil right from the outset.

The community can deal with so-called sellouts internally.

 

The more immediate issues are ensuring it's made plainly clear that we won't accept paywalled mods, and that we won't tolerate the path down the road to DRM'd mods. The legal implications of tools and dependencies won't matter any more than they did before this if we crush this paid mods situation now, and they can be dealt with as they always have been before now.

[afa]

Putting the modders on the front isn't as bad as it might really be.

If Valve and Bethesda gets directly in between it could be view as interference in the "market place" which might not be a good thing.

[Jexsam]

A perfectly viable business model is not one that alienates and enrages 80% of the people it was intended for.

 

Honestly I do think you're probably right, I'm just not willing to close my mind to other angles and possibilities. Doing that just makes you inflexible, and being inflexible can make it very difficult to have a dialog. Sometimes solidity on an opinion is good and necessary, but I've found that more often than not, it's a detriment to finding the best solution.

[Redflyingmonkey]

Hear ye, good people of Skyrim!  GabeN himself has once again descended from the Heavens to protect the PCMasterRace!

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/33uplp/mods_and_steam/

 

...lulz

 

That's a joke right ? The CEO of a company launching the most controversial system on his platform right before going to surgery and not being able to check the internet while it literally explodes ? Is he trying to add some fuel on the fire right there ? I thought the modding scene took enough piss as it was, but holy shit this is simply insulting, his half-assed attempt to hide the insult even worsens the whole damn thing. What is this, a crusade ?

[Jexsam]

That's a joke right ? The CEO of a company launching the most controversial system on his platform right before going to surgery and not being able to check the internet while it literally explodes ? Is he trying to add some fuel on the fire right there ? I thought the modding scene took enough piss as it was, but holy shit this is simply insulting, his half-assed attempt to hide the insult even worsens the whole damn thing. What is this, a crusade ?

Yeah, why didn't he just tell his medical problems to wait until after this all blew over? It's not like there are other people at Valve qualified to handle this, after all. Truly, this is the most disgusting thing.

[bjornk]

Obviously, Skyrim is just another game and its modding community is insignificant to Mr. Newell, which is kind of true from his perspective.

[Redflyingmonkey]

 

Yeah, why didn't he just tell his medical problems to wait until after this all blew over? It's not like there are other people at Valve qualified to handle this, after all. Truly, this is the most disgusting thing.

 

 

No, wait, that's the point there. I'm not god but statistically speaking, how likely is it to be forced to go to the surgeon the DAY something like this happen ? I mean it could, after all I once found a 50€ bill in a trash can so I'm aware probabilities are always funny. But at the exact same time Valve's getting fire for their new policies, dude CEO is conveniently away from his cell phone until things calm down a bit. And when he comes back from his surgery he "stays 2 hours in a coffee shop" to answer shit on reddit ? 

 

And no, obviously there isn't right now anyone at Valve qualified enough to "handle this", that's actually the reason what everyone has been whining about the last few days in case you also were struck by sudden hermmm, "blister in your eye". 

[wulfgear09]

20,000 supporters using moms CC to buy shit online  woot.

 

 

when i read the CEO's response that video with the mexican guy kept going through my mind.

 

 "mods?"

[afa]

It's Saturday guys no one is in the office to handle this! Tomorrow is Sunday so don't expect anything till Monday in the afternoon!

Don't you guys know how 9-5 rolls!?

 

Just hope they don't hold "Shitface Monday" where everyone gets shitface drunk and can't actually do any work till cocaine Tuesday...

[bjornk]

Keep in mind that this whole thing was planned months ago, not yesterday.

[rylasasin]

ITS OVER ONE HUNDRED THOUSSSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND!!

[Guest]

I really want to know, how in the bloody hell did they even generate $10k?

 

That's if he isn't lying.

 

Who is buying this stuff?

[Suludi]

ITS OVER ONE HUNDRED THOUSSSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND!!

 

Wow.

 

[Jexsam]

ITS OVER ONE HUNDRED THOUSSSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND!!

[Zor2k13]

I was just reading through some of that liberal reddit shit and feel like I need a shower.

 

Dick0ne chimed in there and gave ol gaben a good bj and left his number for later hookups. They both make me sick but what valve should have done is to do things the way nexus does things! When you post a mod at nexus it becomes property of nexus I think? somewhere in the EULA from hell they have over there I think it says that. So that is how nexus makes so much money before donations. The use the mods to draw attention then spam people with ads and make money from advertising. Then of course the donations come in too. What valve could have done was get nexus to work with them and use the same kind of EULA from hell to take modders rights away and not have to pay them a dam thing! the donations could have been split between valve and nexus or something like that and the ad money could be increased because of a big name like valve being involved... think of all that game sports gaming league money and attention since nexus hosts so many games mods they could even let nexus modders in on some of this esea related games gambling shit that goes on with valve market place and twitch etc.

 

That is what I call the stealth approach and we know it works well because nexus already does it. Want to complain? nexus bans you and takes all your content since it is theirs now anyway. Vampire douchebag slaps you with his teeny prick and bans you to the underworld of modding! Most people including me NEVER read the EULA even after watching that one episode of southpark! so this stealth approach could have worked out better and had EVERYONE on board since the pay for modders could have been dressed up as donations while valve still found a legal way to make money from donation money (bribe liberal politicians) and the ad money going between the two would have made even more money than just mods being bought. They could have rolled out their upcoming games with not only no complaints but a bunch of people in support of them too!

 

Maybe they did try to do this but dick0ne might have backed out wanting more money or whatever who knows.

 

 

Valve has been bribing people for a while now to accept their drm system instead of complain about it just look at how cs go works with all that gambling and marketplace shit and TF2 hat makers etc. if you can't force them to accept drm then bribe them! good ol human greedy nature FTL:-(

[dechurch]

 

The thing is the modders ended up as cannon fodder in this whole debacle , heat yes it was to be expected ..... I would prefer the peaceful way of not downloading or ignoring paid mods 

 

 

FWIW, that's what I plan to do. Meh, I wasn't going to do it anyway. I've never gotten a mod from that workshop, even before it was paid, and the only mod I've ever purchased was Viking Conquest for Mount & Blade. There was a time when I'd get new games from steam on a whim. I seriously doubt I'll be throwing gaben much more money.

 

Also, FWIW, you're certainly appreciated here.

[Erundil]

The thing is the modders ended up as cannon fodder in this whole debacle , heat yes it was to be expected ..... I would prefer the peaceful way of not downloading or ignoring paid mods

 

I'm sure all of us would prefer a peaceful solution, ZaZ. I do, for one.

But face reality, peaceful solution doesn't work in this situation.

Be peaceful and everyone will ignore you, at best. At worst they will shit over your face and show it to everyone to have a laugh.

If someone was stupid enough to get involved in the scam Beth/Valve made, he's most certainly too stupid to be convinced peacefully.

Sad but true.

 

Also making modders into cannon fodder makes perfect sense. It's like fighting aagainst drugs on the streets. The manufacturer is too far away (and too strong) to take on, so you target the retailers. If there are no retailers, the manufacturer will go out of bussiness.

Yet again - I'm against unjustified aggressiveness. But in this case it's the most reliable solution.

[Rayblue]

There ought to be a some sort of an investigation, a government inquiry... Or if possible write to your representative about this shitstorm.

[Zor2k13]

Political corruption is reaching a very high point right now and public confidence is not anywhere near congress or govt. When the police are shooting people and robbing people carrying cash using federal laws to justify their robbing, people are not going to complain to the govt about corruption somewhere else.

[Buddy Christ]

I just took a little break from all this shit going on, only to find out that that fucker CEO from Steam took another dump on me again?

Taking cheap shots at those that voice their negative opinion?

"Sipping Coffee" while gracing people with his answers?

"Not censoring"? I know quite some people already that got a one week suspension on Steam for being negative about that fucking shit.

At least one thing was true in his statements: He doesn't do PR on Saturdays, because that was a really shitty example of trying to do PR.

 

That STEAMing piece of turd is nothing else than the usual politicians and CEOs that get corrupted by money/power when they reach a certain level.

He really is the Anakin Skywalker of gaming. Starting out with good intentions, loved by many, only to get corrupted and turning to the dark side.

 

What I want to see is that free modding outside the fucking steam workshop piece of shit will stay an option and that that censoring, money grabbing stain on the matress called

"Workshop" (they should rename it "Steam Sweatshop" anyways) will not be mandatory.

But even if that turd and Beth would state that "officially", I probably won't believe them anymore. They lost all credibility when they passed EA in their reputation.

 

 

ETA: And they left the modders they lured into this hanging out to take the brunt of the outrage without intervening.

[zippy57]

There ought to be a some sort of an investigation, a government inquiry... Or if possible write to your representative about this shitstorm.

...an inquiry into what? What laws do you think were broken here?

[Exar Kun]

They know all to well modders and mod users are "nothing" why? because they don't have the MONEY to fight this. Beth and Valve do.

and since when did Valve or Bethesda give a flying F^%$ about modders or users or consumers they"ve been fucking them over since the beginning.

Valve makes money on the backs of others "Steam". Bethesda makes money screwing it's base up the ass and making them like it. since bethesda's first game people have been bitching about there game making, has it stopped them? NO have people EVER stopped buying there shit games? NO. they know very well Consumers will buy anything ANYTHING.

everyone outside of Bethesda and Valve are getting FUCKED but will this fly? you bet it will. They aren't looking at US their looking at the future consumers the ones that will buy this shit as normal and once the dust settles things will be back to normal and consumers will still be buying there shit. Like the two party system Bethesda and Valve are a bowl of shit looking at it self in the mirror. but we continue to buy there shit at face value. 

 

 

EA's BBB rating

http://www.bbb.org/greater-san-francisco/business-reviews/video-games-wholesale-and-manufacturers/electronic-arts-in-redwood-city-ca-64196

 

Valve's BBB rating

http://www.bbb.org/alaskaoregonwesternwashington/business-reviews/computer-software-publishers-and-developers/valve-corporation-in-bellevue-wa-27030704

 

   EA at least makes an attempt to care about consumers, if not for the sake of PR but Valve for the longest time has never cared about people that give them money and its not going to change. People thinking Valve will, are just insane by defintion, EA resolved over 10x the number of complaints Valve got, not 1 unresolved while Valve just shrugged off 500 others. Most don't go that far to even report to the BBB but thats the consumer base of gamers and that lies the problem, the numbers for how many people Valve really threw under the bus is probably disgusting.

   Not saying EA is a saint but Valve just doesn't seem to care anymore about the hand that feeds, I can just see the gaming market crushing under its own weight at this point. If anyone wants to add another mark against Valve maybe leave them a complaint with the BBB, but that only really matters if they care about the thoughts of their customers.