A little warning to mod creators of non adult mods....

[azoth1267]

 

Not only that - but now users are customers to the modders and with customer-supplier relationship comes not only expectations in regards of the product, but also potentially legislative issues.

 

I can only imagine what kind of legal precedents will be put in place to police modding/modders and their customers.

Honestly its rather scary and more than a little depressing.

 

Valve and beth have taken a completely hands off "buy it your own risk" stance and will likely not change.

Quality is questionable at best.

Theft is rampant either before or after upload.

No guaranties of compatibility or even if things will work in any way at all.

Mod authors seemingly have too much control over dissenting voices on their own pages, allowing them to shut out any talk of bugs or problems (though atm is being used mostly to cut out spam and the like).

 

Where will it end? will it ever end? how long till the first lawsuit of mod author vs customer?

 

think i need to step away from all this crap for a bit...

[Buddy Christ]

A secret source I can not name told me what really happened. This is all hush hush, so don't tell anyone!

 

Actually, GoG and EA teamed up and planted sleeper at Valve and Bethesda. They used a mind control device to make all this happen.

The real goal behind all this was, that EA will lose the title of "shittiest Gaming Company" and GoG will make shiploads of money from all the

people buying from them in the future and not from Valve.

 

Remember, this is a secret! *dons tinfoil hat and wanders off*

 

[Crooltool]

Anyone notice how quiet Valve and Bethesda are being, not a peep since the intitial release, their only response so far is to try "unsuccessfully" to delete negative comments and ban users or mods, other then that, they have pretty much let their "precious modders" dangle in the wind

[Coopervane]

A secret source I can not name told me what really happened. This is all hush hush, so don't tell anyone!

 

Actually, GoG and EA teamed up and planted sleeper at Valve and Bethesda. They used a mind control device to make all this happen.

The real goal behind all this was, that EA will lose the title of "shittiest Gaming Company" and GoG will make shiploads of money from all the

people buying from them in the future and not from Valve.

 

Remember, this is a secret! *dons tinfoil hat and wanders off*

 

Your forgot Reptilians and the Illuminati. Can't have a proper conspiracy theory without those..

[DoctaSax]

While I'm not exactly an "old school" modder from original Morrowind days like some of our members, I'm going to kinda-sorta disagree with DoctaSax. I have no problem with modders getting a tip from people. Yes, even two-three years ago even that would have raised a stink, but setting up something like a patreon (or however it is spelled) or a "Donate" button to a paypal account for $1-$2 is fine with me.

It's ok to disagree. I'm not against donations per se, just reminding everybody about how it used to be not done in order to contrast it with what's going on now. Quite the reversal. People are understandably upset. I also think that when donations became accepted it meant we were already halfway down the slippery slope to this, and this might have been avoided if the old restrictions had been kept firmly in place.

 

I wouldn't consider myself as old-school as some, but I go back long enough to be very much out of my element with all this endorsing, voting, donating, and now paying for mods. I'm trying not to remember things through rose-colored glasses here, but coming up, seeing how other modders handled themselves, I got from that a notion of there being an ethos to this thing, which on the one hand I've seen continued as folks help each other out and pass on their knowledge and skills, but on the other seems very much threatened now. Worse even is how everybody brings up how it's better to donate instead of paying, and promises to do more so in future, so that's where the blame for this entire fuckup is laid now: people not donating enough. More of the same, isn't it. By the sound of it modders are all standing around with our hats in our hand because the mean-ass players have made us work our asses off for free and never once let us stop so we're all living in dumpsters now.

 

People go, well what's wrong with a few bucks, but hey, it's a few bucks that Wrye didn't charge for Bash, Elminster didn't demand for the Edits, the script extender guys didn't need for their work, and so on, so whoever goes "I spent x amount of time on my stuff and think I'm owed something for it" needs to get over himself. You're standing on the shoulders of giants, act like you know. You've worked really hard on your mods? Woop-tee-doo, let's compare. This is how I feel; it may be in parts flawed, unreasonable and unfair, but I feel it strongly all the same.

[Buddy Christ]

Not sure if I do something wrong, but their announcement on the starting page is gone for me?

 

[Zor2k13]

The long term trouble is taxes, every major country in the world is on the hunt for more money this year and any new or recently created streams of revenue will be looked at right away. How would a paid modder deal with this stuff? Not every country is the same about tax laws some are worse than others (hard to imagine) and as we all know the fiefdoms of europe just luuuuv to drag major corps through the mud about services they offer in their areas so I expect to see some article pop up by the end of the year "blah blah the EU fines valve blah blah" just look at what they do to bitcoin so far and google and others it will happen for sure.

 

I think maybe the only way I can bother with skyrim again is to find a private site where things are not shared outside of the site and none of the paid modders are there, framework mods are replaced by new modders on that site and someone like dick0ne doesn't run anything there.

[Double D]

Not sure if I do something wrong, but their announcement on the starting page is gone for me?

 

It is gone! Maybe, just maybe, some of the people in charge have seen what a giant, nasty clusterfuck this has been.

[Zor2k13]

Even if they try to rescind this whole mess it just means they will do it a different way later on with their upcoming games. The deed has been done, the scene has been screwed and the divisions have been made there is no going back to what we had before. They want that money and will not stop trying to get it because they are desperate and they have financial advisors telling them things are going to get worse soon. Every public company is doing the most they can to keep raising those stock prices and make that money off shore so they can keep all of it.

 

Gaming is not about gaming it has not been that way since mid to late 90's or more we are all just dingleberries to the industry! Can't get rid of us easily and have to spend a lot of time to flush us down the drain but sooner or later we usually fall off but sometimes they have to get their hands dirty and wipe us away in frustration!

[Ark of Truth]

 

Not sure if I do something wrong, but their announcement on the starting page is gone for me?

 

It is gone! Maybe, just maybe, some of the people in charge have seen what a giant, nasty clusterfuck this has been.

 

 

Its all still there.

[Buddy Christ]

 

 

Not sure if I do something wrong, but their announcement on the starting page is gone for me?

 

It is gone! Maybe, just maybe, some of the people in charge have seen what a giant, nasty clusterfuck this has been.

 

 

Its all still there.

 

 

Well, the mods with price tag are still in the workshop, true.

But the Banner on the Store page is gone for me. They probably just want to lay low for a while, I guess and keep the thing running without the advert.

[zippy57]

 

 

 

 

There's no silencing of criticism, negative or otherwise, in that picture.

 

I'll bite. How do you figure that?

 

The element in the bottom left corner provides more information in the after picture than it does in the before picture (such is the failing of still images that I can't see what it would have displayed if interacted with). And as has been discussed numerous times prior to this, mostly in regards to Metacritic scores, numeric ratings of things are largely unreliable (see: Newgrounds). It is not the number given but the reasons that matter, and while there have been claims that actual descriptive reviews are being treated unfairly by Steam's moderators, that was not depicted in the picture and is therefore not relevant to this discussion. Finally, what is pictured is not a mod itself but a collection of mods, and the star rating really should never have been there to begin with. The out-of-five-stars rating is still present on all pages for the individual mods.

 

But the Banner on the Store page is gone for me. They probably just want to lay low for a while, I guess and keep the thing running without the advert.

Or it was set up to go away after a day or so anyway. They're not going to keep it up forever, it has to go away at some point.

[Double D]

Its all still there.

 

It's most likely just wishful thinking. The mod pages are still accessible but the advertisement banner is now gone whenever I try to access the homepage. On another note, I can't submit a review to metacritic. I figured I may as well, given how much importance the suits in the ivory tower known as Zenimax feel about metacritic ratings. There is a 504 error everytime I try to submit a review.

[DocClox]

 

 

 

Guys, steam just banned the word stEAm xD try to name yourself "fuck stEAm" in steam. It will be censored. But not "fuck", just stEAm is censored :'D

I now have the urge to create a trivial companion mod featuring a dunmer called Vuck Falve...

Only 4.99$! I hope LL members get a special discount.

 

 

 

Too soon?

 

I don't suppose anyone knows of a pose mod which includes a "giving the finger" animation?

[Coopervane]

It is gone! Maybe, just maybe, some of the people in charge have seen what a giant, nasty clusterfuck this has been.

 

It's been a clusterfuck of epic proportions, undoubtedly both Valve and Beth expected some amount of backlash, but i honestly think they expected it to be managable (and that the mod authors would take the brunt of it and not them), and that it would blow over quickly and people would just accept it like they have the whole TF2 Hats malarky and such. Without a doubt, they are scrambling right now to do damage control, trying to figgure out how they are going to salvage this disaster.

 

 

But i sadly don't dare hope for them canning this idea outright. I suspect that what we'll see happen sometime soon is that they will try to sweeten the deal, make some minor changes to the system to make it seem less exploitative (maybe give modders a slightly better cut, and put a price cieling on what can be charged so we don't see these $99.99 joke mods?), and hope that these minor gestures will placate the masses and make us roll over and take it.

 

Probably followed by some public appearance where they say they are very sorry, that they know they goofed and the deal wasen't sweet enough, but now they have put it all right and they hope this will bring about a glorious new future for content creators and yadda yadda yadda corporate newspeak..

[Redflyingmonkey]

 

While I'm not exactly an "old school" modder from original Morrowind days like some of our members, I'm going to kinda-sorta disagree with DoctaSax. I have no problem with modders getting a tip from people. Yes, even two-three years ago even that would have raised a stink, but setting up something like a patreon (or however it is spelled) or a "Donate" button to a paypal account for $1-$2 is fine with me.

It's ok to disagree. I'm not against donations per se, just reminding everybody about how it used to be not done in order to contrast it with what's going on now. Quite the reversal. People are understandably upset. I also think that when donations became accepted it meant we were already halfway down the slippery slope to this, and this might have been avoided if the old restrictions had been kept firmly in place.

 

I wouldn't consider myself as old-school as some, but I go back long enough to be very much out of my element with all this endorsing, voting, donating, and now paying for mods. I'm trying not to remember things through rose-colored glasses here, but coming up, seeing how other modders handled themselves, I got from that a notion of there being an ethos to this thing, which on the one hand I've seen continued as folks help each other out and pass on their knowledge and skills, but on the other seems very much threatened now. Worse even is how everybody brings up how it's better to donate instead of paying, and promises to do more so in future, so that's where the blame for this entire fuckup is laid now: people not donating enough. More of the same, isn't it. By the sound of it modders are all standing around with our hats in our hand because the mean-ass players have made us work our asses off for free and never once let us stop so we're all living in dumpsters now.

 

People go, well what's wrong with a few bucks, but hey, it's a few bucks that Wrye didn't charge for Bash, Elminster didn't demand for the Edits, the script extender guys didn't need for their work, and so on, so whoever goes "I spent x amount of time on my stuff and think I'm owed something for it" needs to get over himself. You're standing on the shoulders of giants, act like you know. You've worked really hard on your mods? Woop-tee-doo, let's compare. This is how I feel; it may be in parts flawed, unreasonable and unfair, but I feel it strongly all the same.

 

 

Would also agree if not for the fact that there are mods that require more than just time and effort, but also investment. Most of the time it's taken care of by funding it between the mod authors so the cost is reduced, but for something like Faalskar or Interesting NPCs... I think mods like these with obvious actual costs like registering studios and equipment, and so on, do deserve donations, or at least more than they receive.receive. Wrye, El and ianpatt work in big to huge software companies very much relied to games (from what I've picked up over the years) and use their company's equipment and sometimes even code. They are the ones who refuse donations as that'd make them cross the reaaally thin legal line they drew themselves. 

 

It's not the same thing with voiced mods requiring thousands of hours of recording/editing/maybe travels to meet up with the team. That's why donating could become important in what Valve lied about being interested in (helping modders to mod bigger). And I think, on the Nexus especially, donating options are either too limited, or not apparent enough. 

 

[Alva]

The element in the bottom left corner provides more information in the after picture than it does in the before picture (such is the failing of still images that I can't see what it would have displayed if interacted with).<snip>

 

Actually it isn't.

 

1/5 rating based on 1300 reviews is more telling by far than 105 "likes" out of unknown amount.

The 1/5 rating based on number of submits, might be a "wrong" metric (cannot say) but it is much more informative than just a thumbs up without any sort of additional indication because in one you know the sample and therefore can calculates statistics - with just likes, you get an unusable, incomparable, number.

 

[Redflyingmonkey]

 

 

 

Guys, steam just banned the word stEAm xD try to name yourself "fuck stEAm" in steam. It will be censored. But not "fuck", just stEAm is censored :'D

I now have the urge to create a trivial companion mod featuring a dunmer called Vuck Falve...

Only 4.99$! I hope LL members get a special discount.

 

 

 

Too soon?

 

I don't suppose anyone knows of a pose mod which includes a "giving the finger" animation?

 

 

There is actually ! And there are even different versions like the "english" fingers ! I forgot where I saw it though ... 

[DocClox]

Anyone notice this gem from DarkOne's post on reddit?

 

This backlash was always, ALWAYS going to happen. I told Valve as much, and they said they knew. I'm not entirely sure they knew it would be THIS bad, however.

So Valve expected all this to happen? And they did it anyway.I honestly didn't think I could get any more disappointed in them than I already was.

 

[edit]

 

There is actually ! And there are even different versions like the "english" fingers ! I forgot where I saw it though ...

Oooh! If I can make a splash page with my guy giving the V sign to the camera, I'll definitely have to create Vuck Falve!

 

hee hee hee!

[ZaZ]

 

 

 

 

 

Ah, I don't support the Idea fully, the logic some people are using here donations would have been better option and I agree with that as well , but in all honesty how many people actually donate to a deserving  mod author , the mod authors are not entitled to it certainly but some of these guys aren't that well off financially RL and wouldn't mind some sort additional income, even petty cash would work.

I do it too just not on any Beth Games , I do in Second Life , trust me every cent counts when its important . I could use some of the earnings to Upgrade my PC for example .

Mod Makers have absolutely no right to demand donations , What valve/beth are doing is shit , but the mod maker will recieve more than what donations could offer (I dont agree with the 75/25 thing though and the ridiculous price for a follower mod )

Also few of them did promise to release the free versions later on 

 

There are tons of complications though , with mods getting stolen and so forth but thats another topic .

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

HOWEVER, his reputation would become so tarnished, so irrevocably tainted by this whole bullshit, that donations, if donations he had before, would almost stop. I don't think a lot of people in their right mind would donate to an author who's selling his works on Steam.

 

Which means, simply put : 

 

Pros - Modder is paid for his work "thanks" to the paywall. 

 

Cons  - Modder is paid a fucking RIDICULOUSLY small amount, so ridiculous that

          - He can't increase his modding capacity in any way thanks to it while 

          -Loosing credibility to the proven majority (maybe I'm being an ass, but looking at the outrage it looks like the majority of players are against this bullshit)

         - Loosing his chance to get any raise on his donations

         -Restraining the number of modders he can work with in the future (if Fores is setting an example, this is going to be Sparta versus Athenes on the modding scene). 

         

 

I'm noticing a whole lot of points in the "cons" category, it's just not worth it, and I'm sad about the modders who jumped in this thinking it was a good opportunity, while not thinking about the long term consequences. And Valve KNEW this, that's why they picked modders and asked them not to reveal it before the whole bullshit began, they knew what kind of outrage would spawn from all this, they're sacrificing modders like Chesko so they can feel the heat and move accordingly. I'd be happy normally if idiots got what they deserved for being idiots, but in this particular case it's modders, who are being literally raped without even noticing it, simply because they're not used to mercantilism as this was only their hobby. Chesko is only the first in line, who's to say how many modders will give up modding altogether when they realize they're being played and that their reputation is forever fucked ? 

 

I don't think it's the end of modding or whatever apocalyptic nutjobs are saying all over the place, but it sure is going to turn everything to shit. 

 

 

I don't agree with the hate thrown towards the modders especially threats , The whole thing is a lose-lose situation for everyone in the modding community except Bethdesda and Valve

 

It's hard to produce estimate considering the early stage of the bullshit (decided to refer to this crap by simply "bullshit" from now on), but I don't agree with the fact modders on Steam would get more than others get with donations. Maybe this was the wake up call for actual donations to happen, and for donations and crowd funding to become more obvious in mod descriptions everywhere. But looking at the rates archetype, plus taking into account the terrifying information circulating around that the 400$ threshold Valve and Beth will take before starting to give you your percentage resets every fucking month... The earnings would be so miserable that they'd not in any way help anyone to upgrade his PC or help in whatever significant way his modding capacity. And modders can actually demand donations, this was accepted legally 2 years ago ! Maybe not "demand" but making donations procedures easy and available on their mod pages is something that they can do, and it does works for a number of modders. 

 

 

1.Because mod users don't know how much exactly a mod author receives in donations, but I'm 90 % positive that first statement may be wrong ( Modders are certainly entitled to donations , Behind a RIDICULOUS 75/25  Pay wall ........... NO its crap)

2.Possibly, but i'm not sure how it work out there are tons of deserving modders 

 

The Modding community wont die just yet , its just that there will be a lotta bitterness over all 

[zippy57]

 

The element in the bottom left corner provides more information in the after picture than it does in the before picture

Actually it isn't.

 

1/5 rating based on 1300 reviews is more telling by far than 105 "likes" out of unknown amount.

 

Actually it is.

 

What part of "bottom left" made you think that was referring to the top right?

 

EDIT:

The 1/5 rating based on number of submits, might be a "wrong" metric (cannot say) but it is much more informative than just a thumbs up without any sort of additional indication because in one you know the sample and therefore can calculates statistics - with just likes, you get an unusable, incomparable, number.

It's a moot point since the "before" interface seems to be back all of a sudden, but the number of unique visitors to the page is clearly listed. It doesn't take a genius to realize that the number of visitors minus the number of likes is the number of people that didn't like it.

[mkprovince]

 

 

 

Guys, steam just banned the word stEAm xD try to name yourself "fuck stEAm" in steam. It will be censored. But not "fuck", just stEAm is censored :'D

I now have the urge to create a trivial companion mod featuring a dunmer called Vuck Falve...

Only 4.99$! I hope LL members get a special discount.

 

 

 

Too soon?

 

I don't suppose anyone knows of a pose mod which includes a "giving the finger" animation?

 

 

Not exactly a pose mod... are you talking about something like this?

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/31297/?

 

[Saeros]

sorry for this, but I have to post here

 

 

 

 

[rylasasin]

People who think that throwing money at modders will "motivate" mod authors to work harder or produce better mods need to watch this video:

 

 

The community, and THIS one in particular, has been proving what's been said in this video correct for the last 10+ years.

[Buddy Christ]

I think a thing that would calm things down a bit would be an offical statement from Valve and Bethesda, that they do not plan to make modding workshop exclusive for future games.

But then... I am not sure, I would believe them.