A little warning to mod creators of non adult mods....

[Pops57]

The fragmentation of the community has already happened.  Too much has happened.  Nexus found to be knowing in advance AND accepting silver from paid mods,  SkyUI rumored to be going behind the paywall.  Modders like Chesko, Arthmoor and Xilver pulling their mods and putting them behind the paywall.  Well..it's all already happened, and all I can recommend everyone doing is archiving your existing mods against crazy times ahead.  Enjoy what you have now and have faith that modders will still do what they do because of love for the game.  And if it becomes time, be ready to put Skyrim (or ANY OTHER game requiring paid mods) to the long cold sleep.  Millions for defense...not ONE penny for tribute!

[TheOzoneHole]

First off, which part of my post is the "first part", the first paragraph or the second where I say that I don't mind people asking for a donation?

My boss knows about my mod, I was told when I got hired a few years ago that if I EVER went back and started doing updates or re-releases under any of my known names that I would be gone the day the company found out. I would not be given the option to clean off my desk, anything personal of my would be mailed to me at my expense.  Maybe that makes me "part of the problem" but I found a job that I like and it came with strings attached. So do most jobs. I decided to suck it up and put modding behind me. I'm free to enjoy the work of others, just not add to it myself. 

 

Second, the only permission I have EVER even tried to enforce on my mods was a request that people let me know if they chose to translate the mod to a different language. All my released mods were adult in nature and I never wanted to stop others from changing them to suit their own tastes.  

 

 

[afa]

 

Second; You don't own your mods. Once you release a mod " FOR MASS DOWNLOAD" on a gaming platform that you don't own you immediately give up all ownership rights. If you want to argue that then you will need a lot of money to pay the team of international copy right busineess lawyers to argue your case in Europe where International Copy right laws are argued. (I forget offhand which country it is done in... it is late here) But I can assure you that all the gaming companies are watching and supporting this.

Explain to me this part. Why? at what point I lose ownership.

Suppose I make a model of something, say, a basketball (whatever unimportant), just a model not a mod, and I upload it.

Now add a little to the equation. I made this basketball, now I put it in a mod, and upload. What then?

Now I made the basketball, someone else take it and put it in a mod, now what?

[TheOzoneHole]

 

 

Second; You don't own your mods. Once you release a mod " FOR MASS DOWNLOAD" on a gaming platform that you don't own you immediately give up all ownership rights. If you want to argue that then you will need a lot of money to pay the team of international copy right busineess lawyers to argue your case in Europe where International Copy right laws are argued. (I forget offhand which country it is done in... it is late here) But I can assure you that all the gaming companies are watching and supporting this.

Explain to me this part. Why? at what point I lose ownership.

Suppose I make a model of something, say, a basketball (whatever unimportant), just a model not a mod, and I upload it.

Now add a little to the equation. I made this basketball, now I put it in a mod, and upload. What then?

Now I made the basketball, someone else take it and put it in a mod, now what?

 

 

Because once it is on the Internet it is actually outside your control. You can pull that model down, but if someone has downloaded it, they can then re-post it (and worse, maybe claim it as their own).  I know several people who believe that everything posted to the Internet should be free to use by anyone for anything; actually I work with a few like that. I've found people like that are either obsessive about keeping their work secret and not talking to or helping others with anything (even making the damn coffee) or are the most generous people with help and advice you will ever meet.

[mkprovince]

 

 

Zydar

 

Didn't read the whole thread, but I guess its time to also keep an eye for someone stealing some mods here and selling it there.

 

I don't have anything against the modders who does this, I do hope that they have learned their lessons and I do hope they will return at one point, one way or another. I would gladly donate, but when I have to pay then there's a certain expectation to go with it. Then there's the issue of using resources from other mods and possible mod piracy.

 

 

I spent years in Second Life trying to create content and sell.  Once word got out that you could easily copy 3d primitives and textures (some pirate group even built their own viewer that automated it, calling it "Copybotting") then turn around and sell as your own, that world became one gigantic shitfest of ripoffs, crappy products and dishonest merchants.  I still have an account in SL, but I canceled my premium sub and stopped logging in for that very reason. 

 

I also belong to Renderosity for a long time, where 3D artists were creating amazing stuff that could have raised the quality of work in SL immeasurably -- but their response when asked about joining Second Life was that they saw it as a "den of thieves".  I couldn't argue with that.  Second Life's loss.

 

Now some of the problem in SL lies at the feet of the owning company (Linden Lab), but it serves as an example of what happens when people start to think they can work from home, making easy money uploading virtual property. 

 

 

 

This is so going to be the future of Steam...

 

 

Looks like steam locked paid mod forums.

At last I can't access them, I "don't have permission" to.

 

I wonder if they're trying to get something like "Only Premium Members Can Access The Paid Mods!" kind of stunt... Yeah, you don't just pay them for the purchase of mods. You pay them for the chance to buy these mods too! Two payments for the comfort of Steam? Ugh... my head hurts... a lot. I hope I'm just overthinking.

 

Also, see what happens over at Dragonpor. I'm surprised when I saw elysees' new mod on the list.

http://dragonporn.ldblog.jp/archives/8143986.html

[afa]

 

 

 

Second; You don't own your mods. Once you release a mod " FOR MASS DOWNLOAD" on a gaming platform that you don't own you immediately give up all ownership rights. If you want to argue that then you will need a lot of money to pay the team of international copy right busineess lawyers to argue your case in Europe where International Copy right laws are argued. (I forget offhand which country it is done in... it is late here) But I can assure you that all the gaming companies are watching and supporting this.

Explain to me this part. Why? at what point I lose ownership.

Suppose I make a model of something, say, a basketball (whatever unimportant), just a model not a mod, and I upload it.

Now add a little to the equation. I made this basketball, now I put it in a mod, and upload. What then?

Now I made the basketball, someone else take it and put it in a mod, now what?

 

 

Because once it is on the Internet it is actually outside your control. You can pull that model down, but if someone has downloaded it, they can then re-post it (and worse, maybe claim it as their own).  I know several people who believe that everything posted to the Internet should be free to use by anyone for anything; actually I work with a few like that. I've found people like that are either obsessive about keeping their work secret and not talking to or helping others with anything (even making the damn coffee) or are the most generous people with help and advice you will ever meet.

 

By that logic when does piracy comes into play?

[SexyTop69]

Let me make this clear, at the end of the day weather or not you believe it to be that what the modders on valve/steam uploading their mods as DLC is right or wrong one thing is certain,

 

UGCC

 

User Generated Copyrighted Content is the underling threat to all modding across the board. It gives them the power to POSSIBLY ENFORCE AN COLLECTION OF ALL MODS FOR SKYRIM EVER MADE AND TAKE CONTROL OVER THEM AND USE THEM OR TOSS THEM ON WHAT THEY DEEM ACCEPTABLE AND WORTHY! I put that in caps to stress the importance that paid modding store bought modding can not be at all, accepting it makes it where or brings up the question of " why are you even modding at all? " Because that's what it is about modifying something to your creative hearts content having no limits no defined limits or developer/publisher defined limits hold you back. To accept the pay wall is to accept the death of your creative freedom in modding or making mods in video games.  

[ZaZ]

I'm not sure donations work as people assume they do , probably what drove the modders to collaborate with steam in the first place. While that maybe a shitty way doing things, some people who are not so well off actually do live off creating content not from beth games but all over.

I know I have done similar things for second life , I hope to do it for renderotica in the future.

The bottom line is valve and Beth fucked up ,please don't hate the mod makers, just don't download. The hate towards the mod makers is uncalled for it leaves a sour taste for other mod makers and makes them wonder.

Some of us do want persue a career in content creation ,I know I would eventually even if its just adult in nature ,cause why not get paid for doing something you really like......

 

If you don't support it don't download the hate is fucked up , I seen the threats and hatred against chesko it wasn't really fair

[ArgusSCCT]

I can't believe this, as if there isn't enough crap to pay for whenever games are involved. Every time this gets worse and worse, before it was DLC, then it was F2P and now its mods. It seems like this shit never ends, every time they charge for something else. Gaming is really starting to become a goddamn hassle and an irresponsible waste of money. Sometime I think I should just be done with gaming all together and not just because of greedy corporations. I mean this is really the gamers' fault, if people just stopped being so naive, and stopped paying for this sort of bullshit this wouldn't be happening. This is a result of thinking corporations are "people" and a result of giving money to developers for stupid shit, like pre-orders and what not. If they knew that this would have never worked, they would never have attempted it. 

 

Seriously, I hope people LEARN, and that they don't pay for this shit. I guess I'm not surprised though, not surprised that this happened, until people stop throwing money senselessly at these damn companies, they are going to do as they please. Honestly, modding as a way to make money, no offense to anyone, but that just doesn't seem like a viable "job" to me, especially not with some damn company getting 75% of your money. Those people probably have better ways to use their talents, than just "modding". I certainly wouldn't charge for the mods I have made, I didn't really do them for money, I did them because I wanted to make them for myself, even if I put them out there for someone to use, I wouldn't charge for them or even accept donations. 

[zippy57]

To accept the pay wall is to accept the death of your creative freedom in modding or making mods in video games.

How does someone else charging money for a mod infringe on your creativity in any way?

[SexyTop69]

I'm not sure donations work as people assume they do , probably what drove the modders to collaborate with steam in the first place. While that maybe a shitty way doing things, some people who are not so well off actually do live off creating content not from beth games but all over.

I know I have done similar things for second life , I hope to do it for renderotica in the future.

The bottom line is valve and Beth fucked up ,please don't hate the mod makers, just don't download. The hate towards the mod makers is uncalled for it leaves a sour taste for other mod makers and makes them wonder.

Some of us do want persue a career in content creation ,I know I would eventually even if its just adult in nature ,cause why not get paid for doing something you really like......

 

If you don't support it don't download the hate is fucked up , I seen the threats and hatred against chesko it wasn't really fair

 

Before this mess started I thought it was better if people donated to modders simply because they loved their mod that much not so much because of supporting that mod author financially necessarily.  But because of the respect for that modders hard work and then from there they could perhaps get noticed by an developer and work for them or make their own game or IP and really make money that way and the people who supported that modder would be the first to buy that game because they knew them from before and trust them pretty much like Natural Selection 2 people liked the half life mod the first Natural Selection they made and when they felt the community supported what they made and loved it they made NS2. In that way it seems by interacting with the community and building your way up to the top to eventually making your own thing and getting paid by price for it  is interesting in the fact that the experience you get from going that route with modding isn't obtainable by other means like school and college.    

[TheOzoneHole]

@Afa,

As far as I'm concerned, piracy never comes into play on the creator side of the equation. At this point the lawyers rule the world; we (mod/asset authors) often cannot afford to get a lawyer to deal with the problem when someone takes what we have created and calls it theirs.  Most politicians are current or former lawyers, not engineers, or scientists, or even accountants.  Worse, many of them a corporate lawyers. While I'm not the biggest fan of the hosts of the TV show Mythbusters, Adam Savage made a point once that I found insightful. They were testing a mod that involved two specific commercial products, one company was very interested and even sent the MBs some of their product to help with the testing. The other company's marketing department was all for doing the same but the legal department said "No" and that was the end of it.  I think that if someone really tried to challenge Valve and Beth in court over this they'd likely win, especially with something like FNIS or totally user created assets, but the point is that the risk of not winning, and the huge bill that you'd be stuck with is what the companies are counting on to keep people from attempting to stop them.

 

@SexyTop,

Very true, the key to this is: will they? As has been said, Skyrim is a four year old game. I'm less concerned about what they will do with Skyrim than I am about whatever Beth announces at E3. Pretty much all the publishers other than EA now partner with Valve for distribution. We are starting to see download only games. It is pretty much agreed that download is the way of the future, if for nothing but the cost savings to the publishers. Personally? I think that this is the test run for what gets released next. There is NO WAY that SOMEONE won't ask a question about this at the E3 if given half the chance. I'll just bet that any media who try will be given a "No Comment" when they ask about modding, and that is if they don't have to submit questions in advance (which I'll bet they do).

 

@Zaz,

First off, love your work, thanks so much. And I wish you the best of luck. 

Second, I agree with you on this; everyone has to make their own choice on the issue. Put something behind the pay wall, put it up for free but with permissions, or up for free to use and modify for re-use how the user sees fit. It is, and should be, up to each author.  Our choices have consequences, and we have already started to see the consequences from those choices.  

[SexyTop69]

 

To accept the pay wall is to accept the death of your creative freedom in modding or making mods in video games.

How does someone else charging money for a mod infringe on your creativity in any way?

 

 

Because they are telling ( or letting you ) monetize your mod for their game that is copyrighted by them on their domain for people to buy more so from them and less so from you because they are controlling how much you get for what you made for their copyrighted game which now simply because you uploaded it to their domain to be custom modded DLC for sale you are relinquishing your custom created content and control to them and any now unauthorized control for them to keep, and that in order to make an profit on something it has to be copyrighted to even reap an cent from it and for you to have rights to do so as well     

[ZaZ]

 

 

I'm not sure donations work as people assume they do , probably what drove the modders to collaborate with steam in the first place. While that maybe a shitty way doing things, some people who are not so well off actually do live off creating content not from beth games but all over.

I know I have done similar things for second life , I hope to do it for renderotica in the future.

The bottom line is valve and Beth fucked up ,please don't hate the mod makers, just don't download. The hate towards the mod makers is uncalled for it leaves a sour taste for other mod makers and makes them wonder.

Some of us do want persue a career in content creation ,I know I would eventually even if its just adult in nature ,cause why not get paid for doing something you really like......

 

If you don't support it don't download the hate is fucked up , I seen the threats and hatred against chesko it wasn't really fair

 

 

Before this mess started I thought it was better if people donated to modders simply because they loved their mod that much not so much because of supporting that mod author financially necessarily.  But because of the respect for that modders hard work and then from there they could perhaps get noticed by an developer and work for them or make their own game or IP and really make money that way and the people who supported that modder would be the first to buy that game because they knew them from before and trust them pretty much like Natural Selection 2 people liked the half life mod the first Natural Selection they made and when they felt the community supported what they made and loved it they made NS2. In that way it seems by interacting with the community and building your way up to the top to eventually making your own thing and getting paid by price for it  is interesting in the fact that the experience you get from going that route with modding isn't obtainable by other means like school and college.    

 

 

Exactly , why not  ? modding games, also serves as a platform for people get recognized elsewhere. Hell I have used the ZaZ name to get recognition in SL  and promote some animations.

Everyone needs a start somewhere, I Will Never ever charge for the ZAP stuff .

 

But on steam there was an chance to put some of my own vanilla animations , And if you look at the guy who put up the "better combat AI" he made 2 versions of the mod free and paid with little to no difference . Something like that isnt  a bad idea

 

[Aria]

Looking at how half-arsed this whole implementaion of paid modding is, i guess they are testing the waters, wouldnt be surpised to see TES modding being exclusive to steam only in the future.

Mods packed with drm...cant wait to see that.

 

Seriously, i spit on valve and bethesda for doing this and that 75% going to valve..wow just wow.

[Alva]

Looking at how half-arsed this whole implementaion of paid modding is, i guess they are testing the waters, wouldnt be surpised to see TES modding being exclusive to steam only in the future.

Mods packed with drm...cant wait to see that.

 

Seriously, i spit on valve and bethesda for doing this and that 75% going to valve..wow just wow.

 

Chances are we'll see cracks n' hacks if that happens to be able to load free mods.

But it is definitely a risk.

[BlackArk]

Here are my thoughts on this after calming down.

 

The damage has been done to the community and it will be irreversible even if steam backtracks and cancels this program of theirs. Users have attacked some modders for their actions and users feel betrayed.

Modders will be mad that the users deprived them of a way to make money on their work and will no longer want to work for free.

Users will be mad that the modders used them to gain traction in the modding community only to later put them all behind a paywall, SkyUI one such example. Yes, no one modder or mod would have been successful without the modding community and I feel that turning around after getting propped up by so many supporters to give them but middle finger is not okay. But ask yourself what have you done to support a modder directly? Giving a kudos or a favorable review is nice but Is it enough for the work that they put into the mods? Apparently some modders didn't think so. How many of us have donated something to the modders? Sure, mods are a work of passion and created not because of financial motivations. But for the convenience and enjoyment that the modders have given us, the hard work they have put into the mod, those of us that can donate something extra by skipping that daily cup of coffee that we drink or skip that new movie that is coming out soon, we can give them a little extra something. Sure not all of us are able to do such a thing but more of us can. We as users may have relied on modder generosity for a little too long and now some of them have been feeling neglected for the work they do/did.

 

This whole event feels sorta like oculus rift after they used the crowdfunding community to build value and equity only to turn around sell out. But with oculus they are in a much more secure position because they have actual equity being one of the top VR tech companies while mods are one of many and the content can be easily replaced, stolen/pirated.

 

This community outcry is different than the one with oculus however as there was actual money involved in the arrangement and the crowdfunders have absolutely no say in the transaction. Sure with paid mods there is a potential for money, though small with the 25% only after they have sold enough times to reach $400 otherwise the money stays with valve, the money does not matter if we as a community hold that money and not purchase anything behind a paywall and have the current resources to continue and replace the mods that have gone behind a paywall.

Sure we may have lost a few essential mods like SkyUI and maybe even the talent of Chesko but we still have their current versions. Although they may not be perfect, but mods never were perfect SkyUI is in my eyes a completed project they have stated that it was the end and any further updates to it I will just ignore. we should just take what we have now and maybe we will eventually replace them as new passionate talent take the scene to replace those we have lost beyond the paywall.

 

If anybody does not know how badly this can affect the modding community here is what I can see happening:

Modders resources may become scarce and protected as they are prime targets to steal from and this will stiffen creativity. Those generous content creators will either have to protect their work themselves due to the SW's lack of accountability in ensuring good quality mods that do not infringe upon any authors rights or begin to sell licenses to modders. This creates a barrier to entry and creative minds will be less likely to enter the modding scene.

DMCA take down notices will be abused and mod authors may have their work stolen by people impersonating or misrepresenting themselves as the original creators.

Random people pumping out many low quality and stolen mods to try and get some quick cash.

 

In the end modding skyrim will still continue as it is a passion and not a job for many. We may have hit a decline in the past few days since the announcement. It is up to the community to see if we are able to recover. If the users and modders can once again band together maybe we can overcome this hurdle.

I feel that modders should get some kind of compensation for their hard work but putting their works behind a paywall to force us to pay them for support is not the right way to do it. I feel that it should be okay for them to ask for donations if they really need it  but it should not be an absolute necessity. The middle ground is hard to find and for different people the middle is not in the same place.

 

That is about it. Good night everybody I hope to see some kind of good news tomorrow but if not I'm okay because my game is pretty much modded to its limits. Sure some of the new paid mods may alleviate the script lag but I would just end up modding it until it breaks again anyways so It is about time this cycle ended. I was really looking forwards to the frostfall update but chesko has since disappeared, he will be missed.

[azoth1267]

 

Chances are we'll see cracks n' hacks if that happens to be able to load free mods.

 

No chances about it, its already happening.

All the premium mods have been ripped from steam already and are floating around here and there if you know where to find them.

Someone even posted a link to some a while ago here but its since been deleted.

 

Its the future of gaming and modding and we are stuck with it.

 

 

side note:

SkyUI paywall edition is just a giant middle finger to everyone who has ever wanted the crafting menus changed.

will have to try it out with a heavily modded save for a bit, but it seems to work so far.

[Jexsam]

Out of curiosity.

 

Is there anyone here with an extensive history using Steam and keeping track of events that can tell us whether or not they've ever seen a shitstorm of this magnitude? If so, what became of it?

[Guest]

Out of curiosity.

 

Is there anyone here with an extensive history using Steam and keeping track of events that can tell us whether or not they've ever seen a shitstorm of this magnitude? If so, what became of it?

 

There was a lot of drama when Hatred was removed from Steam Greenlight. 

 

It was put back on. So Valve ended up ruling in favor of the community. This is still nothing compared to the current situation.

[Crooltool]

Out of curiosity.

 

Is there anyone here with an extensive history using Steam and keeping track of events that can tell us whether or not they've ever seen a shitstorm of this magnitude? If so, what became of it?

 

I've been on steam since the begining, and no, nothing like this, closest thing I can think of the the original origins EULA stating they had the right to scan your whole computer, and that pales in comparison to this shitstorm. I think we are in uncharted territory here. I mean when forbes comes out with 2 articles saying a company making profits off the unwashed masses is a clusterfuck and basicaly siding with the unwashed masses, you know things are seriously topsy turvy in the world.

[Guest]

 

Out of curiosity.

 

Is there anyone here with an extensive history using Steam and keeping track of events that can tell us whether or not they've ever seen a shitstorm of this magnitude? If so, what became of it?

 

I've been on steam since the begining, and no, nothing like this, closest thing I can think of the the original origins EULA stating they had the right to scan your whole computer, and that pales in comparison to this shitstorm. I think we are in uncharted territory here. I mean when forbes comes out with 2 articles saying a company making profits off the unwashed masses is a clusterfuck and basicaly siding with the unwashed masses, you know things are seriously topsy turvy in the world.

 

 

Very true, it really is irksome.

 

I just don't understand the recent points coming up.

 

- "Modders deserve money for all the time spent slaving to make mods for others."

 

Which doesn't make sense considering that most authors I know made mods for themselves. They just happened to decide to share it with others and updated it if they saw errors/room for improvement. Eventually, authors would band together to make larger projects or improve each others work. That is the beauty of how the community is. 

 

When authors submit their mods to Steam, they are now in a legal contract to provide support for their mods. This is basically working for Valve/Bethesda at a low cut. They end up profiting off of your work while doing nothing. 

 

They also make more off of your own work than you do.

 

So now they will become the slaves that they never were.

 

 

 

 

*Not saying that people do not deserve anything. Money is not the only way to reward someone, which a lot of people fail to realize.

[ZaZ]

 

 

Out of curiosity.

 

Is there anyone here with an extensive history using Steam and keeping track of events that can tell us whether or not they've ever seen a shitstorm of this magnitude? If so, what became of it?

 

I've been on steam since the begining, and no, nothing like this, closest thing I can think of the the original origins EULA stating they had the right to scan your whole computer, and that pales in comparison to this shitstorm. I think we are in uncharted territory here. I mean when forbes comes out with 2 articles saying a company making profits off the unwashed masses is a clusterfuck and basicaly siding with the unwashed masses, you know things are seriously topsy turvy in the world.

 

 

Very true, it really is irksome.

 

I just don't understand the recent points coming up.

 

- "Modders deserve money for all the time spent slaving to make mods for others."

 

Which doesn't make sense considering that most authors I know made mods for themselves. They just happened to decide to share it with others and updated it if they saw errors/room for improvement. Eventually, authors would band together to make larger projects or improve each others work. That is the beauty of how the community is. 

 

When authors submit their mods to Steam, they are now in a legal contract to provide support for their mods. This is basically working for Valve/Bethesda at a low cut. They end up profiting off of your work while doing nothing. 

 

They also make more off of your own work than you do.

 

So now they will become the slaves that they never were.

 

*Not saying that people do not deserve anything. Money is not the only way to reward someone, which a lot of people fail to realize.

 

 

Well imho, the modders who did put up their Work on steam obivously thought something is better than nothing

 

[Ceit]

 

 

Second; You don't own your mods. Once you release a mod " FOR MASS DOWNLOAD" on a gaming platform that you don't own you immediately give up all ownership rights. If you want to argue that then you will need a lot of money to pay the team of international copy right busineess lawyers to argue your case in Europe where International Copy right laws are argued. (I forget offhand which country it is done in... it is late here) But I can assure you that all the gaming companies are watching and supporting this.

Explain to me this part. Why? at what point I lose ownership.

Suppose I make a model of something, say, a basketball (whatever unimportant), just a model not a mod, and I upload it.

Now add a little to the equation. I made this basketball, now I put it in a mod, and upload. What then?

Now I made the basketball, someone else take it and put it in a mod, now what?

 

 

That is a little different then what I am explaining in my post. It is a little grey there but the last time I spoke with my cousin who is in the international copy right law business (passed NY bar exam on first attempt in and can practice law in I think know over 6 countries, mostly Europe) she told me that once you upload something onto the internet for free mass download you legally have given up all ownership rights unless you are a corporation.

 

Bethesda has already used models from mods in their games like Fallout 3 and also in Skyrim. The authors of the mods have no legal rights and can't do a thing about it. The main issue is that you are not a business. You are not selling it. Now if you just make the model from scratch and are selling it online then that is a different story. If you are uploading it onto the Nexus for free as all mods are uploaded as a free add-on then you have no legal ownership rights. In fact Nexusmods have more legal rights over the mod than you do.

 

I encourage you to read the user agreement that you agreed to when you downloaded the game on your computer. It is all legal babbble that is written in a way that no one understands and that is done on purpose so that they hold all the cards and put you in a possition of having to defend yourself in court. Which obviously you can't and wouoldn't bother to spend the money and their strategy would be to string you along for years bleeding you out of you money until; you give up. All the while the y will have the court freeze the mod altogerther until the case has been ruled.

 

The point is there is not a court in the US or Europe that will recognize your ownership of a mod that you released for free on another website that was made with assets that are owned by a gaming corporation or even if your model is released using the gaming companies platform. Once you do that it is very hard to legally keep ownership and I say hard as in impossible unless you have a team of international lawyers with nothing else to do and you have the money to waste.

 

If you create a model and release as a resource then it is a little different. The law is not clear but if you didn't want people to use it then why would you upload onto the internet on a mod forum website. You see my point is that this is open to interpretation once you give it away like that... it is very unlikely that you  would win prove that a company actually used your model since companies can take your model and change it slightly and claim they they made it.

 

You are in a position of weakness where legally you have to prove everything in order to win and the defence doesn't have that burden. if you want to say that you own it then fine but try proving that in court against a corporation. in this context I can safely stand by the statement that you do not own your mods.

 

You also don't make a living from these mods which also works against you. If you were an photographer and you made your living through your photography and you uploaded you pics on Flickr then that would be a completely different situation. But this is not the case here. that is not the position you are arguing.

 

So again the odds of probabilities of you legally claiming ownership of a mod that you released "FOR MASS DOWNLOAD" (a legal term) for free is going to be very difficult to win a favourable decision.

 

In the end I stand by my saying that Bethesda owns every mod made for their game that has ever been released on the Nexus and on any other forum on the internet.

 

i can also bring up other example like Planet Elder Scrolls which the owners tried to sell the entire collection of mods but then suddenly the entire website was shut down??? Why do you think that happened? Do you think nobody was willing to buy it? My bet is that Bethesda stopped it and shut them down. Lawyers don't really have the time to be gaming but in law school MODDING is being studied and these scenarios are being played out and argued and there are parers that have been released on the internet that you can google. There is some great stuff regarding mod and the Blizzard community with some of the problems that they dealt with.

 

no as far as people requesting that I provide links and stuff like that, legal dissertations are not freely available online. These things are only availble to lawyers or students in law schools. You have to pay for them and linking is impossible since the website that hosts these legal papers and transcripts are closed forums, meaning that you need to be a paid member (yearly access fees and also prove that you are a working lawyer or student,) most law schools offer these services through their library so it is impossible for me to provide you any documentation when I tell you that a lot of this has already been legally ruled on in European world court that handles international copy right law.

 

Hey if you want to try to go up against the entire gaming industry and their team of international lawyers then be my guest... lol

 

Hey cheers, don't worry about it. if you want ownership and plan to sell your models then don't release them for free download and make sure you provide proof that they are owned my a company that has been incorporated. That should cost you... I dunno $2500.00 these days to get things set up properly. you would also have to prove that it is an actual company that pays taxes and has employees

 

The chance of you going through all this trouble for a silly sword texture is next to zero so come on... lets be real. if you want to fool yourself into beelining that you own your mods then whatever but the reality is that legally there is not a court in the world that would side with you.

 

Edit: the only reason I am sharing this with you is because I have faimily that are lawyers and I have argued the point you are trying to make when I modded Oblivion when I was younger. i should also add that this area of law is in a constant state of flux but overall I stand by the just of my reasoning. Of course I expect every tom dick and harry to disagree and argue while slurring insults. it wouldn't be the internet with out it eh?

[Chaos63]

Beth the beggar has officially become the hottest file on the nexus.

Nice.