Jump to content

Recommended Posts

 

I've noticed a bug that's completely stopping me from progressing through the story, the fact that during the pony race once I cross the finish line it doesn't register the fact that I had crossed and continues waiting for the other racers to finish without marking down that I had finished, what am I doing wrong?

 

First or second race? Please post the output of 'sqv tir_pr_race01' in the console.

 

 

It was on both, I loaded a prev save and skipped the first one via console then got to the second one and it happened again

 

---- Quest state -----------------------------------

Enabled?       Yes

State:             Running

Current stage: 30

Priority:            65

Link to comment

---- Quest state -----------------------------------

Enabled?       Yes

State:             Running

Current stage: 30

Priority:            65

First, that is not the entire output. Giving me incomplete data will not help me.

 

Second, if you're in stage 30 then the game has recognised you as winner. Or to be more precise: It has recognised someone as the winner. It is then just waiting for the others to finish, too.

 

Completing the race means to cross various hidden checkpoints along the race track in order. The last of these checkpoints is the finish line. I do not know why the game would refuse to accept that. It worked for me (and apparently other people as well). Maybe one girl got lost due to AI troubles? I'll add a timeout to the wait code in the next release to prevent something like that in the future.

 

In the meantime, you can complete the quest yourself. If you have won, do 'setstage tir_pr_race01 100'. If you've lost, do 'setstage tir_pr_race01 110'.

Link to comment

the same thing he's describing happened to me inconsistently on a recent playthrough; my guess is i missed a checkpoint somehow. Script lag and weird player speed could easily be a culprit, or the hitbox of a checkpoint might just be a bit off of the route I chose. When i loaded and restarted the race everything worked fine.

 

I have a silly request: in the new content you create, can you be less verbose? There's a fair bit of unskippable dialogue that consists of NPC's agreeing with other NPCs and otherwise wasting time with messages that add no information. What you've written is kinda cool in that it flows a bit like a natural conversation, but I really don't need to stand around jumping in small circles for five seconds while an NPC says "Quite so."

 

 

Link to comment

the same thing he's describing happened to me inconsistently on a recent playthrough; my guess is i missed a checkpoint somehow. Script lag and weird player speed could easily be a culprit, or the hitbox of a checkpoint might just be a bit off of the route I chose. When i loaded and restarted the race everything worked fine.

The trigger boxes were already pretty big, but I've enlarged them a bit more.

 

I have a silly request: in the new content you create, can you be less verbose? There's a fair bit of unskippable dialogue that consists of NPC's agreeing with other NPCs and otherwise wasting time with messages that add no information. What you've written is kinda cool in that it flows a bit like a natural conversation, but I really don't need to stand around jumping in small circles for five seconds while an NPC says "Quite so."

 

I understand your problem. How do think I feel when I have to go through stuff like that two dozen times for testing?

 

But usually the claptrap is there for a reason. Things that need to be explained to the player, so he either is told in a direct dialogue or he just happens to witness an illuminating conversation between NPCs. Either way, it helps the characters express their personality and relationships to each other. Plus it builds the background lore and connects the different parts of the story with each other. And since TIR is basically a story-driven mod, those are all quite a vital functions.

 

So I can't just remove the long explanations for everyone. Because it would harm the story and narrative flow. I could remove the interjections ("quite so", "of course", etc.) but that would hurt the flow of the conversation, as you already pointed out. If the NPCs just stood there giving monologue explanations, it would harm immersion. People would realise that NPC A isn't talking to NPC B but to the player. Effectively breaking the fourth wall, although not intentionally.

 

With real dialogue (conversations in which you can say stuff), I usually put a shortcut in there if it's a longer one. Like "Please give me the short version" or something like that. Then you can skip the explanation if you already know it. So that's already there.

 

With scenes (conversation between NPCs), it's different. There's no real interactivity available for those. So I can't have the player choose to skip a part of a scene. It's just not doable with the tools that the engine provides. In theory, I could make two scenes for each situation. A long one and a short one. And then some user setting would determine which one to use. But that would practically double my workload, so it's not going to happen.

 

 

TL;DR: Long dialogues should already have shortcuts. Long scenes can't be shortened without nearly doubling my workload or sacrificing narrative functionality. Given all viable alternatives, the drivel is the least of evils.

 

Link to comment

A more modest solution might be to disable player control less: not only does jumping alleviate boredom but you can just ram into NPC's hard enough that they stop talking and move on to the next line. I think there are a couple of points during the TIR questline where there's some state that this stops working for some reason (they simply don't flinch) but I know it works during the pre- and post- race stuff, for example.

I understand that an extensive overhaul of existing dialogue would be an unreasonable amount of work. I am a firm believer that you can maintain a conversational tone while reducing time, however, in spite of your above objections. As an example, there's a line in the post-party speech where the Mistress goes "We wouldn't want a repeat of last year's disaster the cleanup was really bad" and the slave behind you goes "Yeah the cleanup was really bad" and then "The cleanup was so bad it took a week omg" (excuse my bad paraphrasing). I would argue that you could fulfill all of your goals by changing the Mistress' line to something like "My staff wouldn't want to clean up after anything like last year" and the slave's response to "Ugh" (or something similar). Again, I understand that going back and changing all of this would take quite a lot of time. I do think it's a thing you could improve for content you're adding, though, if you agree with me and feel similarly.

Link to comment

 

the same thing he's describing happened to me inconsistently on a recent playthrough; my guess is i missed a checkpoint somehow. Script lag and weird player speed could easily be a culprit, or the hitbox of a checkpoint might just be a bit off of the route I chose. When i loaded and restarted the race everything worked fine.

The trigger boxes were already pretty big, but I've enlarged them a bit more.

 

I have a silly request: in the new content you create, can you be less verbose? There's a fair bit of unskippable dialogue that consists of NPC's agreeing with other NPCs and otherwise wasting time with messages that add no information. What you've written is kinda cool in that it flows a bit like a natural conversation, but I really don't need to stand around jumping in small circles for five seconds while an NPC says "Quite so."

 

I understand your problem. How do think I feel when I have to go through stuff like that two dozen times for testing?

 

But usually the claptrap is there for a reason. Things that need to be explained to the player, so he either is told in a direct dialogue or he just happens to witness an illuminating conversation between NPCs. Either way, it helps the characters express their personality and relationships to each other. Plus it builds the background lore and connects the different parts of the story with each other. And since TIR is basically a story-driven mod, those are all quite a vital functions.

 

So I can't just remove the long explanations for everyone. Because it would harm the story and narrative flow. I could remove the interjections ("quite so", "of course", etc.) but that would hurt the flow of the conversation, as you already pointed out. If the NPCs just stood there giving monologue explanations, it would harm immersion. People would realise that NPC A isn't talking to NPC B but to the player. Effectively breaking the fourth wall, although not intentionally.

 

With real dialogue (conversations in which you can say stuff), I usually put a shortcut in there if it's a longer one. Like "Please give me the short version" or something like that. Then you can skip the explanation if you already know it. So that's already there.

 

With scenes (conversation between NPCs), it's different. There's no real interactivity available for those. So I can't have the player choose to skip a part of a scene. It's just not doable with the tools that the engine provides. In theory, I could make two scenes for each situation. A long one and a short one. And then some user setting would determine which one to use. But that would practically double my workload, so it's not going to happen.

 

 

TL;DR: Long dialogues should already have shortcuts. Long scenes can't be shortened without nearly doubling my workload or sacrificing narrative functionality. Given all viable alternatives, the drivel is the least of evils.

 

I like the dialogue. It dose a very good job of setting up a good story. 

Link to comment

I've been having an issue after the party quest. I got out of the tower and explored a bit but when I came back the Mistress was gone and after making her appear the next quest won't trigger after confronting her. Can somebody help me??

Link to comment

 

I like the dialogue. It dose a very good job of setting up a good story.

 

I'll second that. I really liked the flow of the dialog, it felt very alive and natural. Though I can understand how a re-run of the mod might require a bit of patience in some scenes. Still, I wouldn't prefer it any other way.

Link to comment

A more modest solution might be to disable player control less: not only does jumping alleviate boredom but you can just ram into NPC's hard enough that they stop talking and move on to the next line.

Usually I disable player controls because at some point in the scene, the game will make the player character do something. And for that to work, I need it at the right spot and the right time. That's why I walk the PC into place and disable controls. Otherwise, once the game has to take over the PC and the player has walked somewhere else, the PC will bump into NPCs, possibly pushing them outside the view of the camera, face the wrong way, get stuck at obstacles or does something else to make the whole thing look generally stupid.

 

I would argue that you could fulfill all of your goals by changing the Mistress' line to something like "My staff wouldn't want to clean up after anything like last year" and the slave's response to "Ugh" (or something similar).

But could you? Because it's not that simple and an "Ugh" can have a lot of different meanings. Is the slave dismissive of the Mistress (as in "what does she know, she didn't have to clean it up")? That would change the whole relationship because there's a hint of rebellious behaviour. Or does "Ugh" mean that the slave simply remembers the mess? How would the player get it without prior knowledge?

 

Sure, this is just an example and maybe you could come up with a word that is less ambiguous. But the problem remains that the game doesn't offer me a lot options to express a character's emotions and thoughts. Body language is practically non-existent and I have no voice actor that could help the understanding with the right intonation. I don't even have emojis (although they'd probably look strange in a game anyway). All I have is written text. And if you've been on the internet for longer than about a week, you know how often true meaning and intentions get lost in written text. Irony and sarcasm in particular. You basically have to push people's nose in it if you want to avoid misunderstandings.

 

A sad reality of the medium that I cannot change.

 

 

 

I've been having an issue after the party quest. I got out of the tower and explored a bit but when I came back the Mistress was gone and after making her appear the next quest won't trigger after confronting her. Can somebody help me??

 

Please post the output of 'getstage tir_pr_controller' and 'getstage tir_twr_work01'.

Link to comment

 

A more modest solution might be to disable player control less: not only does jumping alleviate boredom but you can just ram into NPC's hard enough that they stop talking and move on to the next line.

Usually I disable player controls because at some point in the scene, the game will make the player character do something. And for that to work, I need it at the right spot and the right time. That's why I walk the PC into place and disable controls. Otherwise, once the game has to take over the PC and the player has walked somewhere else, the PC will bump into NPCs, possibly pushing them outside the view of the camera, face the wrong way, get stuck at obstacles or does something else to make the whole thing look generally stupid.

 

I would argue that you could fulfill all of your goals by changing the Mistress' line to something like "My staff wouldn't want to clean up after anything like last year" and the slave's response to "Ugh" (or something similar).

But could you? Because it's not that simple and an "Ugh" can have a lot of different meanings. Is the slave dismissive of the Mistress (as in "what does she know, she didn't have to clean it up")? That would change the whole relationship because there's a hint of rebellious behaviour. Or does "Ugh" mean that the slave simply remembers the mess? How would the player get it without prior knowledge?

 

Sure, this is just an example and maybe you could come up with a word that is less ambiguous. But the problem remains that the game doesn't offer me a lot options to express a character's emotions and thoughts. Body language is practically non-existent and I have no voice actor that could help the understanding with the right intonation. I don't even have emojis (although they'd probably look strange in a game anyway). All I have is written text. And if you've been on the internet for longer than about a week, you know how often true meaning and intentions get lost in written text. Irony and sarcasm in particular. You basically have to push people's nose in it if you want to avoid misunderstandings.

 

A sad reality of the medium that I cannot change.

 

 

 

I've been having an issue after the party quest. I got out of the tower and explored a bit but when I came back the Mistress was gone and after making her appear the next quest won't trigger after confronting her. Can somebody help me??

 

Please post the output of 'getstage tir_pr_controller' and 'getstage tir_twr_work01'.

 

 

These are the results:

getstage tir_pr_controller

GetStage >> 0.00

getstage tir_twr_work01

GetStage >> 60.00

Link to comment

 

These are the results:

getstage tir_pr_controller

GetStage >> 0.00

getstage tir_twr_work01

GetStage >> 60.00

Ok, the game thinks you haven't confronted her yet. If you're sure you have, try 'setstage tir_twr_work01 70'.

 

I loaded a save previous to the isuue and confronted her to make sure and apply the solution you gave, during the confrontation I hit ESC and that made the next mission pop up.

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...

Here's an idea:

 

How about adding a quest called "Wearing rubber" that would be a journal on how the play character feels while being trapped in her rubber suit? The stages would slowly increase while wearing rubber, with each quest update actually being a journal entry on how the character is succumbing and slowly becoming addicted to her new rubber prison.

 

The longer the player is wearing rubber, the more used to and comfortable it would feel to her, which means each quest stage could add a small bonus to armor or other attributes (to counteract running around unarmored).

 

The quest could have a few "resisting" stages at the beginning if the player keeps resisting the mistress and complaining.

 

Something like: Player gets used to gasmask so much that she discovers its actually easier to breathe in the gasmask now, even easier than without wearing one! 

Player slowly realizing her rubber gloved hands are actually better now that they are covered and not understanding how she could have existed with her hands uncovered before. And how the touch of her rubber hands feels when touching the rest of her rubber covered body or the rubber body of her rubber sisters.

Or how she could have walked in public with even a small part of her flesh showing and how the thought disgusts her now.

Link to comment

Two things I have to ask, first is why this mod doesnt have a bounty hunter if you escape via the tunnel, The Mistress seemed to want her other slaves back bad enough to warrant this?

Second I finished the finale but I am not getting the second letter is there a way to activate that manually?

Link to comment

Two things I have to ask, first is why this mod doesnt have a bounty hunter if you escape via the tunnel, The Mistress seemed to want her other slaves back bad enough to warrant this?

Second I finished the finale but I am not getting the second letter is there a way to activate that manually?

 

The Mistress keeps her rubber slaves on a longer leash than the normal slaves. Unless she has a specific job for them (like guarding the basement door, for example), she generally has no problem with them leaving to follow their own business. Because she knows they have to come back eventually, if they want to be released from the rubber. So if you are gone, she just assumes you're gone with your rubbersuit on. She doesn't know that there's another way out of the basement.

 

As for the letter, usually that means that the entire quest didn't start. Usually because an alias won't fill. Type 'sqv tir_twr_epilog01' in the console and post the results. I'll take a look.

Link to comment

 

Two things I have to ask, first is why this mod doesnt have a bounty hunter if you escape via the tunnel, The Mistress seemed to want her other slaves back bad enough to warrant this?

Second I finished the finale but I am not getting the second letter is there a way to activate that manually?

 

The Mistress keeps her rubber slaves on a longer leash than the normal slaves. Unless she has a specific job for them (like guarding the basement door, for example), she generally has no problem with them leaving to follow their own business. Because she knows they have to come back eventually, if they want to be released from the rubber. So if you are gone, she just assumes you're gone with your rubbersuit on. She doesn't know that there's another way out of the basement.

 

As for the letter, usually that means that the entire quest didn't start. Usually because an alias won't fill. Type 'sqv tir_twr_epilog01' in the console and post the results. I'll take a look.

 

 

Fair enough on the liberties but eventually I would think she would be curious as to where and what her slave was up to and scry on her, but we are talking time frames so maybe it doesn't apply.

 

As for the quest I typed what you said in console and it of course gave me a feedback a mile long. With no way to copy it I can only post what I think is relevant which is the last part

 

--Quest state----

Enabled?          No

Quest state:      stopped

Stage                0

Priority              70

 

This was after waiting about 3 days not including travel time to solitude.

 

All REF's came back as  -> NONE

Script state = "" (If that makes a difference)

 

If there is a log somewhere can prob give you the whole lot.

The only thing that happened in one of my prior attempts before posting here was the Mistress disappeared to the party room. Of course I fast traveled back to solitude to see if the courier would trigger but nothing. Ive tried recreating this but it hasnt happened so far, however considering this happened as a bug earlier in the quest line after rescuing Enarons daughter and I had to move The mistress to me from the party room it maybe just another instance of whatever happened before.

 

Another bug  or script error you may want to look at was when I asked for the dark grey suit (A) gave me green boots instead.

 

Awesome mod by the way, I could never get it to work in the past and tried again on a whim, glad I did. Hope you make more mods in the future.

 

Link to comment

Fair enough on the liberties but eventually I would think she would be curious as to where and what her slave was up to and scry on her, but we are talking time frames so maybe it doesn't apply.

 

 

Well, the sewer escape was provided specifically as a way for people who wanted to quit playing the mod (at least for a while) and do something else instead. And in that case, dragging them back via a bounty hunter would be considered an annoyance, not a fun element of the mod.

 

I explained this in greater detail here:

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/37602-trapped-in-rubber-updated-2015-08-02/page-72?do=findComment&comment=1448637

 

The bottom line is that it would be a waste of resources. So I let people leave if they want to go. And in order to not shine a light on that, the Mistress has to turn a blind eye towards such behaviour.

Link to comment

 

Fair enough on the liberties but eventually I would think she would be curious as to where and what her slave was up to and scry on her, but we are talking time frames so maybe it doesn't apply.

 

 

Well, the sewer escape was provided specifically as a way for people who wanted to quit playing the mod (at least for a while) and do something else instead. And in that case, dragging them back via a bounty hunter would be considered an annoyance, not a fun element of the mod.

 

I explained this in greater detail here:

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/37602-trapped-in-rubber-updated-2015-08-02/page-72?do=findComment&comment=1448637

 

The bottom line is that it would be a waste of resources. So I let people leave if they want to go. And in order to not shine a light on that, the Mistress has to turn a blind eye towards such behaviour.

 

Might you consider an MCM menu option to toggle bounty hunters?  (I would think it for mainly those who want to roleplay their character, who may want to escape at all cost.)

 

 

Fair enough on the liberties but eventually I would think she would be curious as to where and what her slave was up to and scry on her, but we are talking time frames so maybe it doesn't apply.

 

 

Well, the sewer escape was provided specifically as a way for people who wanted to quit playing the mod (at least for a while) and do something else instead. And in that case, dragging them back via a bounty hunter would be considered an annoyance, not a fun element of the mod.

 

I explained this in greater detail here:

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/37602-trapped-in-rubber-updated-2015-08-02/page-72?do=findComment&comment=1448637

 

The bottom line is that it would be a waste of resources. So I let people leave if they want to go. And in order to not shine a light on that, the Mistress has to turn a blind eye towards such behaviour.

 

Might you consider an MCM menu option to toggle bounty hunters?  (I would think it for mainly those who want to roleplay their character, who may want to escape at all cost.)

 

Also, I thought of an edition after posting my previous reply.  An extended line of quests to either 1: Destroy the tower and by extension the group.  2: Become leader of the group.

Link to comment

 

Also, I thought of an edition after posting my previous reply.  An extended line of quests to either 1: Destroy the tower and by extension the group.  2: Become leader of the group.

 

 

The secret exit has been mentioned here several times and serves as an exit option if you want pause the mod and is not part of the core quest path, so it would make little sense to work on it - would be wiser to spend that energy on the core of the game instead.

 

You can actually sort of "destroy" the group in the current version if you decide to use the arrow against the mistress, but GreySpammer has said that this choice will not be supported further and choosing this option essentially ends the mod and prevents you from continuing further once an expansion is released.

 

As for option two, who knows what the maestro has planned in the long run. I sure as hell don't, but I'm sure it will be interesting.

 

And a short addendum to the older talk about dialogues being too long -I actually really enjoyed them and did not find nor notice anything wrong while playing. Just thought it's worth mentioning.

Link to comment

Might you consider an MCM menu option to toggle bounty hunters?  (I would think it for mainly those who want to roleplay their character, who may want to escape at all cost.)

Probably not in the foreseeable future. I already laid out my case in the link I posted above. Like I said: The sewer escape was never really meant to be there in the first place. It was only added as an RP way for people who wanted a quick and easy way out. This is exactly what happens when you add something that people requested without fully considering the ramifications. Now people use the escape for other reasons (because it's there) and then complain about the RP implications. You pull out one thread and two more become loose.

 

TIR is a story mod, not a sandbox mod where you can do whatever you want. That means that given my limited time (and abilities), sometimes I have to take freedoms and choices away from the player in order to maintain a coherent narrative. The whole reason the gauntlet exists, for example, is to provide an RP explanation as to why you won't be able to screw up jobs afterwards.

 

If I spend any time on this particular thing, I enhance the mod only for those people who choose to roleplay a character that doesn't want to be there in the first place and also choose not to ignore the sewer escape which was never intended for them.

 

If I spend my time on anything else (like, for example, some more stuff that happens after the main quest), then I enhance the mod for everybody. Including, but not limited to, the people mentioned in the paragraph above.

 

You tell me: Which one is - objectively speaking - the better use of my time?

 

 

Also, I thought of an edition after posting my previous reply.  An extended line of quests to either 1: Destroy the tower and by extension the group.  2: Become leader of the group.

 

 

Also not likely to happen. First of all, the Tower is just a building. Destroying it would not destroy the group. The Mistress would simply rebuild and/or move somewhere else. Like she did before.

 

WARNING: Some spoiler about the alternate ending (supporting Enaron) ahead.

 

 

If you actually wanted to destroy the group, you'd have to kill the Mistress. And that's not really possible. Even in the alternate scenario where you supposedly kill her, you (the player, not the character) eventually learn that it was all a ruse. You just thought that you killed the Mistress but it was actually just a ploy by her to fake her death and get the Thalmor off her back for good. That is the way she works. She's not the brute force type. She lets you have the illusion of free will but your choices don't really matter because she has covered all the angles. She sits in her web like a little spider and subtly manipulates events so that things work out in her favor no matter what you do.

 

You cannot kill her because she is way too powerful. It is hinted at in the mod that she isn't a "normal" mer but something more powerful. Something that a young upstart like you who at best can kill a few dragons can't possibly hope to defeat. She just hides her power, doesn't use it openly and prefers to deal with problems in more mundane ways (like the ruse I mentioned above or letting other people do her bidding).

 

 

And that is also part of why you can't take over and become Mistress yourself. You'd have to kill her. For which you'd need a couple more centuries to gain the necessary power.

 

Plus, I don't really like how vanilla Skyrim handles this "becoming the boss" thing in the guilds. Basically, after you're archmage or harbinger or whatever, the story's over. The game tells you: "Bam, you're archmage now!" and then you can't play that out because there's nothing left to do. It's as if I officially declare you supreme ruler of the entire Andromeda galaxy. Great. Nice certificate to put on your wall. But how does it change anything in your life?

 

If I want the position to have meaning, I have to implement a lot of stuff for you to do as the new ruler of the Tower. That means a lot of work and some technical and narrative problems to solve. One of which, just as an example, would be what to do for people who prefer to play as subs instead. I came up with the idea of the rubber enforcer specifically for the reason that it allows me to provide both dom and sub content in one nifty package. You have a Mistress above you (to whom you have to be submissive) and you have "normal" or "lesser" non-rubber slaves below you (to which you can be dominant). Once you're the Mistress yourself, what's the content for subs? Who are going to submit to? And if put someone else above you so you can submit to that individual, then the next thing you'll read in the thread is that people want to take that individual's place.

 

 

TL;DR: It is probably all possible to do. But it would require a lot of time. Which I think is better spend on other stuff that benefits every player and not just a portion of all players.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. For more information, see our Privacy Policy & Terms of Use