Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[SkyTem]

Actually if any more devious devices were added they would be put in the Devious Device mod and not Cursed Loot.  Had to think about it first .  Sorry to post so often I don't very often but when I do it's in bunches.  Thank you again.  See ya.

[Xuvish]

How about adding a resist factor to when someone tries to add extra restraints on through the bondage dialogue?

 

I'm thinking it may work something like this:

 

When a NPC adds restraints after you talk to them you can get an option to resist or ask them to make it harder.

 

If you are successful, then they either add on lighter restraints or they will be manipulated where it is very easy to escape.

 

If you fail, then there can be a degree of failure where it could be a quest (bondage adventure like), or an amount of time to pass. These would be quest items like bound queen that can't be removed until the time has passed.  Again, the amount of time can be configured through MCM.  You can even make it so that only a blacksmith/fence/guard can remove the devices.  The devices would be from the "harder list" or "heavy bondage".  Whatever would be easier for you to program.

 

Instead of bondage quest, you can also do a forced bondage game using the bondage game settings in DD.

 

Asking them to make it harder for you would fall under the situations above.

 

What do you think?

[xseno]

Hello are there any plans to maybe integrate Horrible harrassment into the rape events? Sometimes I would like my PC to try to resist or maybe just give up  

 

[Kimy]

9 hours ago, xseno said:

Hello are there any plans to maybe integrate Horrible harrassment into the rape events? Sometimes I would like my PC to try to resist or maybe just give up  

 

As this is a feature also included in DCL itself and mostly redundant with it, am I correct in assuming that you're mainly interested in the resist feature?

[xseno]

30 minutes ago, Kimy said:

As this is a feature also included in DCL itself and mostly redundant with it, am I correct in assuming that you're mainly interested in the resist feature?

Exactly

[Kimy]

13 minutes ago, xseno said:

Exactly

This is not the first time I am getting asked to implement such a feature, and I am still open to the idea. However, what is NOT going to happen is any of these boring button-masher minigames, like the one that was in Defeat. I hate these. There is no way DCL will ever have a "Hammer the W and D keys 100 times in 10 seconds to escape" feature.

I have never tested the mod you quoted, as it conflicts with my own, so I can't even say how its resist feature works. Feel free to suggest one that's NOT a silly button-masher minigame and can be halfway easily fit into the existing feature, and I will consider it!

[naaitsab]

38 minutes ago, Kimy said:

This is not the first time I am getting asked to implement such a feature, and I am still open to the idea. However, what is NOT going to happen is any of these boring button-masher minigames, like the one that was in Defeat. I hate these. There is no way DCL will ever have a "Hammer the W and D keys 100 times in 10 seconds to escape" feature.

I have never tested the mod you quoted, as it conflicts with my own, so I can't even say how its resist feature works. Feel free to suggest one that's NOT a silly button-masher minigame and can be halfway easily fit into the existing feature, and I will consider it!

 

 

This mod has quite a neat 'struggle minigame' without the mindless mashing  

[xseno]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

This is not the first time I am getting asked to implement such a feature, and I am still open to the idea. However, what is NOT going to happen is any of these boring button-masher minigames, like the one that was in Defeat. I hate these. There is no way DCL will ever have a "Hammer the W and D keys 100 times in 10 seconds to escape" feature.

I have never tested the mod you quoted, as it conflicts with my own, so I can't even say how its resist feature works. Feel free to suggest one that's NOT a silly button-masher minigame and can be halfway easily fit into the existing feature, and I will consider it!

Ye I agree with you. Those button mashing shifests are annoying as f***.

In short HH works like this:

1. you set the base resist chance in the MCM and you can add some multipliers like lvl diference. The amount of resist chance is based on how much clothing you have

2. NPC grabs you. ( your PC is beeing groped in an animation trying desperatly to escape, kinda hot  ). You get a text prompt where you choose to resist, persuade or give up (dont know if there is a difference between resist and persuade might be just in the flavor speak)

3. If you succesfully rests you show the NPC away and you are free to go. if you fail the resist one or more (depending on your settings) parts of your clothes gets removed. If you fail more resist and you get to be naked the NPC will rape you.

 

So no real minigame just a chance game I think it would be nice to add since sometimes I find it silly that I get raped by some lvl 1 hobo just because its night time even if I am fully armed and covered in blood from killing a dragon. It might be nice to add maybe some more chance modifiers like lvl gap, if you have devices, arousal and so on.

 

 

 Also as naaitsab mentioned Devious Lore has probably the best button minigame that I seen. I am currenlty testing out devious lore in a new game and I find it enjoying.

In short when you are bound in a device that you can struggle out you pres the mod hotkey to start the struggle. You get prompted which device you want to struggle out. You choose which skills you want to apply to your struggle (higher the skill slower the stamina drain).

After that the mini game starts and your stamina start to decrees rapidly. You have to press and hold the correct WASD key. Press the correct one and the stamina drain slows down press the wrong one and the stamina drain increases. After few second the key changes so you have to find the correct one fast and hold it. If you succeed before the stamina runs out the device gets remove if  not you get a debuff to your stamina and a cooldown on the next struggle attempt.   

Currently from my play test if works already really niece with DCL 

[Kimy]

1 hour ago, xseno said:

Ye I agree with you. Those button mashing shifests are annoying as f***.

In short HH works like this:

1. you set the base resist chance in the MCM and you can add some multipliers like lvl diference. The amount of resist chance is based on how much clothing you have

2. NPC grabs you. ( your PC is beeing groped in an animation trying desperatly to escape, kinda hot  ). You get a text prompt where you choose to resist, persuade or give up (dont know if there is a difference between resist and persuade might be just in the flavor speak)

3. If you succesfully rests you show the NPC away and you are free to go. if you fail the resist one or more (depending on your settings) parts of your clothes gets removed. If you fail more resist and you get to be naked the NPC will rape you.

 

So no real minigame just a chance game I think it would be nice to add since sometimes I find it silly that I get raped by some lvl 1 hobo just because its night time even if I am fully armed and covered in blood from killing a dragon. It might be nice to add maybe some more chance modifiers like lvl gap, if you have devices, arousal and so on.

 

 

 Also as naaitsab mentioned Devious Lore has probably the best button minigame that I seen. I am currenlty testing out devious lore in a new game and I find it enjoying.

In short when you are bound in a device that you can struggle out you pres the mod hotkey to start the struggle. You get prompted which device you want to struggle out. You choose which skills you want to apply to your struggle (higher the skill slower the stamina drain).

After that the mini game starts and your stamina start to decrees rapidly. You have to press and hold the correct WASD key. Press the correct one and the stamina drain slows down press the wrong one and the stamina drain increases. After few second the key changes so you have to find the correct one fast and hold it. If you succeed before the stamina runs out the device gets remove if  not you get a debuff to your stamina and a cooldown on the next struggle attempt.   

Currently from my play test if works already really niece with DCL 

 

I guess the first one would be a solution I could like. Button games or ANY kind is something I don't want to do. Reason is not only because I find them annoying, but also because escape should be a function of your character's skills, not YOUR keyboard-fu.

 

I will look into it. Right now, I don't think I will be able to add animations to the feature, but the text based checks I can easily add.

[DonQuiWho]

1 hour ago, xseno said:

After that the mini game starts and your stamina start to decrees rapidly. You have to press and hold the correct WASD key. Press the correct one and the stamina drain slows down press the wrong one and the stamina drain increases. After few second the key changes so you have to find the correct one fast and hold it. If you succeed before the stamina runs out the device gets remove if  not you get a debuff to your stamina and a cooldown on the next struggle attempt.   

Currently from my play test if works already really niece with DCL 

You've jogged my memory a little here, FWIW

 

I think that one of the arachnophobia mods (the original?) made you use the WASD keys to escape from the spider webs.  To some extent, you could consider it a bit like key mashing, but the quirk was that you had to use the keys in a sequence that would change unpredictably from clockwise to anticlockwise (at least) and you only gained in your exit struggle if you were paying attention and went in the right direction, so there was as much intellectual input required, as physical.  And you could still lose, no matter how hard or quickly you could bash the keyboard

 

Now, if you could link that to your enemy's skills, or your characters, you might get the best of all worlds 

[LieutenantPaladine]

Hey folks,

I'm having a bit of trouble with the end of the Bound Queen quest line.  I found all the pieces of the key, and now Julius won't unlock me.  Which is fair.  However, the quest prompt now says accept him as keyholder (Hah, no.), kill him (He seems to be tagged as essential, as eight Incinerates do nothing), pickpocket him, or look for the key somewhere around the college.  Unfortunately there is no marker for me to follow, so I'm a little overwhelmed.  

 

TL;DR:

I want out of Queen Sarah's stuff, and can't kill Julius.  Can someone offer a little help?

[evilblade]

Is it possible to somehow completely turn-off the crime portion of the mod and return to vanilla dialog with the guards when you have a bounty?

[Elsidia]

45 minutes ago, LieutenantPaladine said:

I want out of Queen Sarah's stuff, and can't kill Julius.  Can someone offer a little help?

Spoiler

Just sneak to him and steal a key from it's pockets. This key leads to chest somewhere in college. Try to find yourself) If not success to find chest PM me i give a more clue)

 

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, donkeywho said:

I think that one of the arachnophobia mods (the original?) made you use the WASD keys to escape from the spider webs.

Essentially the same key-mashing game that was in the DA Captured mods. Not fun.

 

TBH, I prefer Defeat to Arachnophobia/DA, because at least that is exactly as hard as you configure it to be.

(Not that I like any of them).

 

The mechanism in Devious Lore is ... for all intents and purpose ... luck. Either you get lucky and press the right key almost first go, or you get unlucky and your stamina is drained before you find it. Because we're not dealing with a highly-responsive "arcade game" engine here, there's enough lag in the DL game that it's certainly not about how fast you can press the different keys to find the right one, it's how fast you can recognize whether the drop-speed has slowed or not.

 

With DL, difficulty configuration matters quite a bit. Set it below one and you can escape from quite hard devices first try.

It's not really a game, it's developer effort put into creating the impression of a game, but ultimately it's luck and script load that decide if you can win.

 

The HH mechanism is purely stats driven. You're making choices and then some random rolls occur behind the scenes.

I prefer that, as it works better with the "speed" and "responsiveness" (or lack thereof) that Papyrus has.

 

The configuration choices in HH are reasonably good, but it's still a bit limited in what stats are contributing to the "escape" success.

Also, it's easier to avoid rapes if you wear a lot of clothes that fill lots of slots. 

 

That feature is really nonsense, as a TAWoBA wearing character becomes "safer" than one is modest dress, or standard vanilla heavy armor.

At least, they have more chances to resist.

 

 

For me, none of the non-combat resist mechanisms feel right.

The idea of replacing the Skyrim combat system seems crazy to me.

Skyrim is a combat game. Why on earth would we replace its combat system with a clumsy menu and some dice rolls?

 

It just needs:

a) more nuanced crime handling when you fight rapists in town

b) a way to surrender, if that's what you want (every defeat handler mod has this anyway)

c) a consistent way to handle post-defeat attacks

 

There's already a well-developed, responsive system for fighting enemies in Skyrim, already implemented by Bethesda.

 

The only reason to circumvent this is to give speech a chance before resorting to physical measures.

The vanilla game already has mechanics for this: the Valtheim Towers toll collector, for example.

Skyrim speech mechanics aren't great though, but you can use any stats mechanic you want under the hood instead of a built-in speech/persuade/bribe/intimidate check.

But when speech fails, violence should always be an option, and it should be up to the player how far they are prepared to go.

They could use only unarmed, and try to brawl the attackers, or they could go all-out.

How they fight should impact how guards react.

 

When you look at it this way, ALL rapes are post-defeat rapes.

The equivalent to the non-resist case is they attack you and you surrender immediately.

If you're bound, you will quickly be defeated, so again, it works out with no special handling.

It's actually *simpler*.

 

As I detailed in many other places, the key to this working in town and hold-controlled countryside is appropriate guard responses, which is something the player would want to configure:

e.g.

• guards always take the rapists' side
• guards always take your side
• guards have some weighted chance
• guards favor the side that only used unarmed
• guards consider various factors like:
  • thane status
  • "You were asking for it!" (sexy clothes, naked, drunk, on drugs)
  • you have a slave collar
  • you only used unarmed combat
  • you used magic
  • SexLab Survival factors
  • and so on...
• guards ignore rapes altogether unless somebody hits a guard
• easy to imagine a few other alternatives here

The consequence of this is that a high-level PC would (probably) only get raped if she's tied up to start with. For me, that's fine.

 

 

Whether or not everyone sees the logic in this, it's the approach I have planned out when I return to update the SLD rape feature.

[SkyTem]

Unrelated question.  Anyone know how safe Patreon is to become a subscriber of "if you did want to tip"?

[Kimy]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

For me, none of the non-combat resist mechanisms feel right.

The idea of replacing the Skyrim combat system seems crazy to me.

Skyrim is a combat game. Why on earth would we replace its combat system with a clumsy menu and some dice rolls?

 

 

Well, yes. Overcoming just THAT is actually the single biggest challenge in designing BDSM content for Skyrim. How, just HOW do you fit a genre that's (aside from the occasional spanking stuff) non-violent by nature in a game that's 100% about violence? Often enough, when designing bondage mods, you have to create safe spaces just to allow the character getting tied up without getting instantly killed in the process (remember how the earliest DD mods suffered from that?). Skyrim was never meant for bondage content. Let's be honest, we put our content in this game not because it fits, but because most/all of us don't have the manpower to develop a large open world 3D game from scratch.

 

In the case of "random sex attack scenes", we make it fit by pretending that the almighty warrior isn't all that almighty. The DCL feature (and I guess most similar features like it) pretend that the Dragonborn (which as you may or may not have noticed, DCL NEVER refers the player as!) didn't play attention for a second. Or walked in the wrong back alley. Or her sword had an equipment failure. But yes, she got overwhelmed. Insert any acceptable reason here, really.

 

Would I allow her to resolve the situation with violent means, we all know how that would end. She'd win. Easily so. We're talking about a person who takes on dragons, shoots them out of the sky and then returns to the closest inn to share the story and lots of ale. There is seriously no way that this woman would lose a battle against a few thugs. There'd never BE any "get ambushed randomly" scene, unless we pretend that violence, for whatever reason, wasn't an option.

[Kimy]

4 hours ago, SkyTem said:

Unrelated question.  Anyone know how safe Patreon is to become a subscriber of "if you did want to tip"?

You mean if Patreon is trustworthy? Yes, I believe it is. It's widely used for supporting creators of any imaginable arts.

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, Kimy said:

Would I allow her to resolve the situation with violent means, we all know how that would end. She'd win. Easily so.

Hence the introduction of plausible reasons why you might choose to limit the weapons you use to resist in a town and not go all out...

 

Alternatively, not everyone is playing the game as a mighty Dragonborn.

 

My poor PC infallibly dies to dragons if they catch her outside a town, but she can still get -some- loot out of dungeons.

 

But... even for characters playing the game as a near-invincible battle-god, a pet-suit tends to put a damper on your ability to win every fight.

Or a collar that stops you wearing your nice daedric armor... Or an armbinder, blindfold and slave boots, or... I'm sure you get the idea.

 

You can get bound up due to traps that are not a result of failing at combat.

Or due to hilariously bad dialogue-based decisions that you deliberately take, that include the words "Smoking hot"...

 

I hear there's a mod that does that. People should try it out!

[Reesewow]

8 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

The configuration choices in HH are reasonably good, but it's still a bit limited in what stats are contributing to the "escape" success.

Also, it's easier to avoid rapes if you wear a lot of clothes that fill lots of slots. 

 

That feature is really nonsense, as a TAWoBA wearing character becomes "safer" than one is modest dress, or standard vanilla heavy armor.

At least, they have more chances to resist.

Doesn't HH also have the option to specify what slots to ignore in its stripping mechanic? 

 

I always found that to be one of the stronger aspects of that struggle, since multi-part gear could either be set up to result in a long struggle that slowly strips the PC, or it could be set up in a more realistic fashion where the attacker strips only the bits that block access.  The latter setting putting bikini armor essentially on the same footing as vanilla clothing and armor, if "gear protection equality" is important to the player. 

 

I agree that it would be nice if violence was always an option for those that would take it, but it probably would take an extreme guard and AI overhaul like you described.  Fights among neutral and friendly NPCs are sketchy in unmodded Skyrim as is - start adding a few followers using their own frameworks and AI and extra NPCs touting AOE spells or abilities, and it feels like anything other than a fist-only brawl in a city tends to devolve into a mini-war.  Which some people are OK with, and others (self included) simply cannot stand.

 

Honestly one of the main reason I love the SLS pickpocketing overhaul so much is that it bypasses the victim's vanilla aggro/fleeing phase, which makes it *much* less likely that a hot-headed follower is likely to try to kill them before the guards arrive to give the actual fight or surrender choice.

[xseno]

57 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

 

 

You can get bound up due to traps that are not a result of failing at combat.

Or due to hilariously bad dialogue-based decisions that you deliberately take, that include the words "Smoking hot"...

 

I hear there's a mod that does that. People should try it out!

Which mod it is?

[SkyTem]

2 hours ago, Kimy said:

You mean if Patreon is trustworthy? Yes, I believe it is. It's widely used for supporting creators of any imaginable arts.

Cool.  I haven't ever used any sites that aren't of one of the big companies to pay for stuff online before so I thought I'd ask about that one first.  I checked the site out for the first time recently.  The rest of you guys use it without issue?  Thought I'd get everyone's opinion.  Ty for the reply btw.

[Lupine00]

50 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

Which some people are OK with, and others (self included) simply cannot stand.

Maybe they will listen when you say no?

 

If you're afraid there will be trouble, maybe you better let those guys have their way?

They probably won't hurt you ... too badly ... right? If you just lie really, really still, and pretend it's not happening.

 

 

But seriously. I'm not saying there's no place for "passive resist", HH struggle, persuade-style checks, etc. but when those mods deny you the basic functions of Skyrim they do something that *I* cannot stand. I don't expect everyone to want it my way, but it's surprising how much people get locked into thinking only in terms of how the established mods work, and not how Skyrim works.

 

It isn't necessarily easier to pacify a bunch of bandits and enact a combat-defeat rape than to pacify a bunch of townspeople who end up sucked into your push-back against your attempted rapists. It's the same pacify mechanic, and there are good and bad ways to implement that.

 

I follow Kimy's point that five years ago or eight years ago, modders were struggling to get these things working, but they are a lot less mysterious now, SKSE is more mature, modding is more mature. People are getting tired of the same old mechanics. SD+ slavery as it is *now* would have been a masterpiece in 2012. It's still technically clever, but game design ideas have evolved. If handling the factions of a troublesome town population is ... hard ... then good, a mod that gets it right will be bringing something new, instead of churning over old ideas that were already done and polished five years ago.

 

HH already exists, so we don't need to make it again.

[Lupine00]

6 minutes ago, xseno said:

Which mod it is?

?

[DonQuiWho]

1 hour ago, xseno said:

Which mod it is?

Think it's

 

Don't

Curse

Lupine00

[xseno]

34 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

Think it's

 

Don't

Curse

Lupine00

Ye ye I get it was confused because I dont remeber seeing the 
" that include the words "Smoking hot"..."

scenario

 

Please forgive this nub