Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[SirCrazy]

On 5/11/2020 at 4:26 PM, Kimy said:

I guess the first one would be a solution I could like. Button games or ANY kind is something I don't want to do. Reason is not only because I find them annoying, but also because escape should be a function of your character's skills, not YOUR keyboard-fu.

 

Player Skill vs Character Skill. A dilemma as old as gaming itself.

 

I believe the the reason you are getting so many requests for adding player skill is because currently there is no way for players to increase their character skill for escaping devices.  The only way to make escaping easier is to adjust settings in the MCM.  As Skyrim is a RPG, it would be nice to have a way to 'level up' our character's escape skills. 

 

The obvious methods would be to add a capped bonus modifier based on stats, skills, perks or successful escape attempts.  This is something a few other mods do already. 

 

For something unique I would suggest adding perks that the player could acquire though quests, trainers, feats of strength and/or books. If you chose to go this route, I feel that not all perks should be focused around making escape easier though.  For example there could be a perks that:

1. allows the player to sometimes (small chance) avoid getting bound when triggering cursed loot.
2. allows the player to cast spells through bondage mittens. 
3. grants the player an increased chance to be understood while wearing a gag.
4. grants the player a greater power that allows removes one random generic item once a week.
5. slightly increased run speed for pony boots.
6. grants the player a bondage spell to bind their female adversaries (very small chance to also bind the caster).
7. reduces the chance that NPCs will lock the players gloves together.
8. reduces the chance that NPCs will rape the player.
9. increases the chance that blacksmiths will unlock/remove items.
10. reduces the prices blacksmiths charge.
11. grants the player to sometimes have other payment options for getting devices removed.

You could take a lot of the current bondage perks (extra carry weight, health, armor, magic and stamina bonuses) and turn them into something that has to be earned. This would make the player much weaker in bondage at first but allow allow players to grow their character over time creating a sense of progress.

 

An example of a feat of strength could be triggering X amount of cursed loot traps.  Once achieved they would get the avoidance perk (1 on the list above).  Another example could be paying the Blacksmith X number of times to remove devices and the player gets a random blacksmith perk (9-11 on the list above).  Continuing to use the blacksmith's services would unlock the other perks.

 

An example of a quest would be completing the mages college quest line and receiving the master caster perk (2 on the list above). Another example could be completing the advertising quest for Kimy and getting the binding spell perk (6 on the list above).

 

An example of a trainer could be going to a stable master and paying them for advice how to properly use pony boots (5 on the list above). Lessons could be expensive gold wise or perhaps they only accept payment in the form of X number of bondage devices per lesson. There could also be a cool down on the lessons to avoid spamming or perhaps the player can only receive training once per stable master.  Naturally there would be a limit to how much training a player could receive.

 

I feel that very few perks should allow the player to just strip off devices on the spot as this defeats the purpose of having a bondage mod. So much of this mod's content is involved with interacting with other NPCs (getting them to remove devices) and I feel that the perks should encourage that interaction. The perks should also make wearing the devices more bearable (but not desirable) so that the player is more willing to finish the dungeon before seeking to get the devices removed.

[SirCrazy]

8 hours ago, Kimy said:

Honestly, while text box narrated skill checks might be less than ideal, it's still better than coming up with excuses why our mighty amazon girl isn't armed, when everybody trying to take advantage of her IS. This feature will never be 100% immersive. People who can't accept it for what it is, can always disable it?

In my mind the NPCs are casting paralyze spells or using paralyze poisons to weaken the Dragonborn. It's far simpler to bind someone when they can't move. Also bondage spells exist in this mod too.

[Lupine00]

13 hours ago, Kimy said:

Five years is basically how old DCL's sex attack code is. This discussion more or less is about improving what's there, but without rewriting the entire thing from scratch. Btw, restricting her weapons? Ummm...so you would find it immersive if the gate guards would search her bag and somehow take her spells away? Mmmmkay!

Honestly, while text box narrated skill checks might be less than ideal, it's still better than coming up with excuses why our mighty amazon girl isn't armed, when everybody trying to take advantage of her IS. This feature will never be 100% immersive. People who can't accept it for what it is, can always disable it?

 

Btw, DCL already DOES have a "get taken after a failed attempt at using violence" feature. It's called "Combat Surrender". It does exactly what you're suggesting - if our warrior goddess fails at being godly and gets defeated in combat, her enemies will have some fun with her. The one you're complaining about is an -additional- feature that's tailored for towns and peaceful areas, where violence would usually NOT occur. As I said above, it DOES take accepting the slight inconsistency that the same warrior goddess because of <insert any reason here> isn't able to simply wipe out the bandits with her fire magic and greatswords when they jump at her from behind a bush. It's not THAT outlandish a thought for a family of mods that tend to turn warrior goddesses into helpless bound slaves more often than not, no?

The problem I have with this response, is that it's not a discussion of what might be interesting, it's instantly turned into a defense of existing DCL features, and a defense based on weird straw-man arguments that pivot in inferring really *strange* and *unlikely* meanings from my writing... As usual.

 

Of course the counters you say make sense, because they counter positions that NOBODY WOULD EVER TAKE OR DEFEND.

 

What is the point of it? This twisting of the other person's viewpoint into nonsensical stupidity, just so you can shoot it down ... it wastes your time and mine.

It doesn't benefit anyone, least of all you.

 

If the goal is simply to make me shut up and go away, I guess it does that. You win there. Thumbs up.

But ideas don't become wrong, or go away just because you drive them off your forum. You're just locking yourself in an echo chamber if you do that.

 

 

We both know what features are in DCL. I wasn't particularly of the opinion that the broad topic of "how rape resistance could work" even has to bear on DCL. Sure, it could, if you were interested in changing what it does now, but you've basically set up a platform that says "DCL is perfect" so why would you even want to change what is there? Clearly, you do not.

 

DCL has no speech-based or dialogue-based resistance mechanics, so why would suggesting that those mechanics - as delivered in HH - are not the only way to resist rape, cause so much consternation?

 

I have no problem with the features that are in DCL, in so far as I just turn them off if DCL is in my LO. I want that sort of thing so little now that I don't even feel bad that they are rendered useless to me. Also, SLD has an entirely similar, unresistable rape mechanic. I said I am not happy with what I made and intend to improve it. Did I ask for DCL to change in any way at all? No.

 

Probably, changing the DCL mechanics in any revolutionary way would simply upset lots of users who like the known and familiar. Nothing that I said was a "DCL sucks you need to fix it" argument. But as you say, that feature in DCL is five years old already, and like a lot of DCL features, is a simplified re-creation of something an older mod did in a more complicated and feature-rich way. Again, simplified doesn't have to mean worse. The pattern of "lite" mods on SSE shows there is an appetite for mods that don't add heavy system loads and don't have huge up-front configuration burdens. But I doubt we can have a nuanced conversation about that without it being perceived as another kind of attack.

 

Did I say the idea was for a mod to take away anyone's weapons? No. I clearly implied you might choose not to go all out because you don't want to end up murdering half the town. I provided an example of how you might be punished harder if you did go all out. I think that clearly implied your weapons were not taken away.

 

So, no, I don't think the absurd scenario you propose is "immersive", nor was it ever in my mind. I'm puzzled why you think it was suggested by my writing.

 

 

Oddly enough, there is a mod that does take away your spells when you enter the town, and does confiscate your weapons, and armor, and even your clothes.

It's actually pretty popular. But the idea of spell theft as described above, in the maximally stupid way is obviously intended to be dumb, and succeeds at that.

But I wasn't even suggesting that DCL would benefit from replicating SLS features (not least because they already exist), or SL Adventures features either.

 

Ideally, we could talk about the space of the possible and then the ethos of DCL, and you might come up with a fresh idea that fits properly into DCL, is not too burdensome to implement, and complements the existing features. That's right... You. You can do anything you want, no matter what I say. But if you start with the position that any discussion that might lead to the conclusion that DCL is non-perfect is a sort of religious heresy, then... What? I get burned at the metaphorical stake, apparently.

 

To pick on another phrase above "The one you're complaining about". The problem with that response, is that like the rest of it, it begins from the premise of suffering a personal attack and putting that first and foremost, and ultimately ends with inappropriate ridicule of an idea that wasn't really put forward in the way it was twisted so that fault could be found with it.

 

You made it about you. It wasn't about you. You made it about DCL. It wasn't about DCL. It was about an entire way of thinking about this functionality that is absolutely ingrained in a whole chain of mods, of which DCL is just one link. DCL didn't invent a single one of those mechanics. They were all established in other mods. They aren't the heart and soul of DCL. Maybe a lot of users turn them off anyway.

 

If you never evolve your thinking you will never want to do anything different from what is already done. Do you really feel the same way about this functionality as you did five years ago? Eight years ago? Can you be perfectly right for so long? Can you lock the door and draw the curtains, without ever questioning that there might be an entire world outside that window you just covered up?

[SkyTem]

Asked about a few ways to possibly make Cursed Loot better but I guess you were busy or missed it:

On 5/10/2020 at 7:39 PM, SkyTem said:

Love this mod but I did have a few ideas to make it better.  For some of the devious devices that shock you if you wear armor/clothing it would be nice if you could choose through mcm if you got shocked when punished or just had the disallowed armor/clothing automatically unequip or drop to the ground "you could have that event count as a rape event so it would damage armor with certain other mods ".  It would also be nice if you could filter what was disallowed for each of the collars.  Second idea was the option to choose through the mcm menu under the rape events between being raped when the % chance triggered or being robbed of all your worn items and then knocked out.  Love your mods Kimy .  Stay safe.  Anyone have anything else to add?

 

[SkyTem]

And

On 5/10/2020 at 7:51 PM, SkyTem said:

I had one last idea for 2 new devious devices.  The first one is an estrus chaurus collar that had a % chance to go off and effect you with the estrus chaurus effect after a configurable amount of time.  The second one is a embarassment collar that has a configurable % chance to go off after a configurable amount of time and cause your worn armor/clothing to automatically unequip or drop to the ground.  Both of these 2 triggered events would count as a rape even so they would damage armor with certain other mods.  Also for each person you are around when the % chance occurs for those effects to go off it would increase by a configurable % to go off.  Just spitballing ideas.  Love your mods Kimy .  Stay safe.  Anyone have anything else to add?

I know your busy just wanted to see if I could get a quick answer.  And wondered what everyone else thinks.  Oh and I have to agree with Kimy on key/button mashing mechanics being annoying though .

[Kimy]

53 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

The problem I have with this response, is that it's not a discussion of what might be interesting, it's instantly turned into a defense of existing DCL features, and a defense based on weird straw-man arguments that pivot in inferring really *strange* and *unlikely* meanings from my writing... As usual.

 

*snip*

 

You made it about you. It wasn't about you. You made it about DCL. It wasn't about DCL. It was about an entire way of thinking about this functionality that is absolutely ingrained in a whole chain of mods, of which DCL is just one link. DCL didn't invent a single one of those mechanics. They were all established in other mods. They aren't the heart and soul of DCL. Maybe a lot of users turn them off anyway.

 

If you never evolve your thinking you will never want to do anything different from what is already done. Do you really feel the same way about this functionality as you did five years ago? Eight years ago? Can you be perfectly right for so long? Can you lock the door and draw the curtains, without ever questioning that there might be an entire world outside that window you just covered up?

 

What you call "twisting somebody's viewpoints" was me pointing out the flaws I saw in your idea, which quite frankly are bigger than the Grand Canyon, but I was at least trying to be halfway polite about it.

 

You were super blunt, both in the post I quoted and elsewhere, so I assume you can take me being the same way. Don't read on if you can't reap what you sow!

 

First: You accuse me to made this discussion about ME when I did not make any reference to myself anywhere in this discussion. That's a silly thing to do. You also accuse me to make this about DCL. Which is laughable, starting with the fact this this literally the DCL thread. So either what you bring up is related to DCL or it's just plan off-topic. Your call!

 

Second: You were oh so upset with me taking apart your idea because I (we're open here, right?) quite frankly think it's not all that great, and I tried to (politely) point out why I think it's not all that great. But reading what YOU think about other's people work, you apparently think that literally EVERY major DD mod ever published is bad. Let's just refer to this posting of yours to prove the point:

 

https://www.loverslab.com/blogs/entry/11102-trapped-in-rubber-six-years-on/

 

I will just quote the gem you wrote about my stuff for giggles:
 

Quote

 

And DCL ... there's not much narrative there to start with. Dragonar is fairly bleak and brutal, but inherently stupid and ridiculous, while the Chloe line is played mainly for laughs but runs out of them about half-way through and ultimately becomes grind-heavy. The other Dollmaker quests feel like the eclectic set of random events that they are, as do the collars. DCL is not even trying to tell a story. It could, but it doesn't.

 

 

 

Here is the issue, and I try to be constructive here. You might, just might, every now and then, attempt to dismount this really high horse you're sitting on. It's so high that dismounting it would require a parachute in your particular case, but really, try it! You really need to realize that like every other human being, you have some good ideas (I implemented some of them!), but not all of them are. Some of them might just be...can I use the word "stupid", since you used it, too? And for somebody who has yet to publish ANY truly original work on LL, you need to tone down your...well...condescending tone a bit. If you're God's gift to game development and feel the need to shove that into everybody's face here by telling all of us how bad we are, at least PROVE it and publish the most popular BDSM mod ever! According to thread activity and views, the biggest competition you have is me, and according to the above quote you already established how much my mod sucks, so how hard can it be? In this case I'd at least have a reason to bow to you, and not have that lingering feeling you're just full of yourself?

 

Here is the gist. You presented an idea. I didn't like it, and said so why. You chose to throw mud at me, as you always do when somebody DARES not to like one of your ideas. In short, if you think your idea is the best thing since sliced bread, go ahead and make your OWN mod based on said idea. But stop insulting me and my work for not being quite the way YOU want it to be.

 

The sad thing is that I nowhere claimed this feature to be perfect. It can be improved and I want it to be improved, which is why I was even partaking in this discussion. But as usual you made this a "Implement my idea because my ideas are by definition the best anyway, because they're coming from me and I am perfect!" thing. You really need to learn how to accept "no" for an answer. And jump off that high horse. Don't forget the parachute!

[Elsidia]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

The sad thing is that I nowhere claimed this feature to be perfect

Your work is excellent!

First i play Fallout 4 mostly only for your mods then goes to Skyrim where things are bigger and better complete.

Ok some things i don't like but i play Skyrim only for your BDSM mods.

I repeat my words a few times but still is worth it!

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, Kimy said:

Second: You were oh so upset with me taking apart your idea

This is just more of the same staw man arguments, where you create a twisted interpretation and then attack the most extreme version of that.

Spoiler

 

You will never take apart my arguments because you don't even address them, you address arguments you made up in your own head.

 

There's nothing perfect or infallible about my ideas, but if you just talk nonsense, the real defects will never be addressed.

You never argued with my points, you argued with some points you made up.

Now you're even trying "argument from authority". 

I recommend everyone here google "rhetoric".

 

There were plenty of real arguments you could have made. You don't make them.

Instead you go looking for ways to be affronted. You are very good at that, amazingly good at reading carefully when it comes to that.

Some awesome totally-out-of-context quotes there...

 

I think it's glaringly obvious to any reader, that for you, it's about "winning" at any cost, and there is no shared experience in that cruel world only smart winners (Kimy) and dumb losers (evil Lupine). And maybe that's constructing my own reality, but I think people can judge for themselves. I see this as an exploration, and you see it as a battle.

 

 

And so... Because of that, it's just the same old same old straw man attacks based on false assertions and invented talking points.

 

The best bit is where you start howling at my demands. Yet I was talking about a feature in my own mod that I want to change as part of a discussion about HH. If you can find the bit where I say "Hey, Kimy, I want you to change DCL rapes" you can have a cookie. I never said it. Never asked for anything in DLC. You just made that entire bit about my "demands" up. Total fiction.

 

What next? I killed one of your staffers?

Ludicrous.

 

 

When you say "blunt" you really mean so mind-bogglingly-unfairly-inappropriate-and-unrelated that I will be compelled to engage.

I will engage just this much.

 

I know this is the bit where I'm supposed to be conciliatory - as has happened before - and I explain how I never intended to give the impression I had any negative thoughts about your work, and that my neutral commentary meant only exactly what it said, and not what you inferred from it. And I could do that here ... DCL, for example does *not* set out to tell a single story. It *is* a collection of disconnected episodes. Dragonar *does* employ an kind of irony and humor that leverages the stupid and absurd. Yep. You chose only to see the worst in those remarks, rather than a nuanced commentary on your intentions when creating the work. You didn't see any appreciation of your wit there, even though you might reasonably have assumed it from other things I've said. That's how you always play it. Injured. Aggrieved. Attacked by a nobody who simply lacks the *right* to comment on your great works! And I have to apologize, and praise, and adopt a sufficiently deferential tone, and once you're done asserting your dominance, I'm allowed to creep away to the shadows, and it's all fine as long as I don't make any more unwanted noises.

 

But I'm not playing that game again.

 

In the past, I've given plenty of praise to your work, and in even in cases where there was something you didn't like to hear, it was never as simplistically negative as you made it out to be. But you will burn to the ground anyone who even murmurs that total perfection doesn't shine through every single bit of it. Don't you have any confidence in your own creation to stand on its own feet? It doesn't need you scorching the earth to ashes to "protect" it. I believe it might be better off without that kind of "help".

 

 

I know I've said that I object on ethical grounds to your brutal silencing tactics... and that I wouldn't let that silence me...

I know I've said that somebody needs to keep pointing out:

• The way you turn everything into a personal attack on you, your creations, and your rights to do whatever it is you do with them...
• The way you label anyone who simply takes a point of view you disapprove of, or who simply gets more attention than you, as "entitled".
• You believe you are *entitled* to tell others how to discuss your work, how to speak about it, and to determine what speech is allowed.
• You aggressively silence, belittle, twist the words of, and quote out of context (often with new added false context) the things they say, to feed your sense of grievance.
• Despite a position of power, with a huge fan-base, and an authoritative position, you always claim to be an underdog victim.
• You aggressively pursue territorial IP claims, despite claiming to have no interest in financial reward.
• You want to control everything, even how your work is discussed and interpreted, and censor any viewpoint that doesn't further your objectives.

 

You habitually stoke up an argument with any "offender" then wait for your supporters to join in to defend you, secure in your confected outrage.

Ultimately, you have no respect for anyone but yourself and you feign it only as long as you receive the praise you demand.

 

 

Well, I admit I was wrong about my resolve. I simply don't have what it takes to argue with someone who invents a totally new reality in every post.

I'm just not able to make "new facts" to meet my own expectations with every paragraph, the way you can.

 

I totally give up. You've won, your unrelenting, shrill, knee-jerk anger is more than I can cope with.

You've silenced me. I can't continue here. It's hopeless.

 

My future lack of any communication with you, or on your forums, on any topic, for any reason is not temporary this time.

You have total victory. You can say whatever you want, misquote me however you like. Twist my arguments or ideas to be whatever you want to ridicule.

I won't be watching, and I won't be responding.

 

You can return to your scheduled adulation, or whatever it is that you feel is supposed to happen here, secure in the knowledge that I won't interrupt it again.

It' the only reasonable recourse when it's become abundantly clear the things you wish to allow to flourish here are glowing praises. Anything that might lead people to look to alternatives must be "taken apart", smashed, crushed, ridiculed, and its authors humiliated until they learn to stay silent.

[Zaflis]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

...a collection of disconnected episodes. Dragonar *does* employ an ...

I think we must address this fault here, you have been using the typo in countless posts:

 

The impression i'm getting from above is that arguing is not constructive. And Lupine you should try to compact posts a bit to find key points and only tell those at the time, it will be easier to communicate for not just you but readers as well. We can't possibly digest that much text at the time, impossible.

[worik]

On 5/9/2020 at 7:41 AM, Kimy said:

I also figured out how to convert ZAP 7 devices for use with DDC, so you can expect at least some of these devices to find their way into DDC in the not-so-distant future.

Ooooh! That's wonderful.

On 5/9/2020 at 7:41 AM, Kimy said:

kids running around in the house, peeking over mom's shoulder in random intervals and wondering what she's got on her screen there, the hours I can put into

You have my full sympathies. Even if they are past the point to get a healthy start-up lection on important matters, even if it's 100% granted that they WILL find out sooner than anticipated about their parents sex life, it's probably another few years to tell them the finer details.

Spoiler

I can still remember how I discovered my mother's sex toys. Thankfully, she took the opportunity to explain a few things more that didn't got any coverage in the school yard among pupils or her previous lessons.

 

1 hour ago, Zaflis said:

The impression i'm getting from above is that arguing is not constructive.

Sadly, yes. I get the same impression   I would very much appreciate it to concentrate more on the ideas and "how to" implement them here or "where else" to implement them even better.

[t.ara]

6 hours ago, Kimy said:

 

"Here is the gist. You presented an idea. I didn't like it, and said so why. You chose to throw mud at me, as you always do when somebody DARES not to like one of your ideas. In short, if you think your idea is the best thing since sliced bread, go ahead and make your OWN mod based on said idea. But stop insulting me and my work for not being quite the way YOU want it to be.

 

The sad thing is that I nowhere claimed this feature to be perfect. It can be improved and I want it to be improved, which is why I was even partaking in this discussion. But as usual you made this a "Implement my idea because my ideas are by definition the best anyway, because they're coming from me and I am perfect!" thing. You really need to learn how to accept "no" for an answer. And jump off that high horse. Don't forget the parachute!"

ggg, it´s not easy, KIMY....

I would take care, that suddenly DCL is not mutating to become another mod, which you never have planned.

Some are really super-frindly, others are friendly and then we have people, who can´t simply stay waiting for a release and begin to make pressure with different new games.

Modders become "stressed" by some readers to be responsible for their artistic work. It´s of course not the way, how WE gonna be pressed into too small high-heels.

Lupine00 was always here like a long time companion inside of this thread and maybe s/he brought you probably more than one time some new and interesting ideas.

Anyway is a "no" a no.

 

[t.ara]

36 minutes ago, worik said:

Ooooh! That's wonderful.

 

Isn´t it at least better, to add completely NEW furnitures to that mod???

The old ZAP furnitures are boring. And they do not have a struggling animation btw. The concept is not exactly suiting without adding further animations...the old existing animations DO ALL NOT suit to the furnitures (bad alignment of hands/wrists/neck/collar positions), they were all made with older skeletons and so the actual characters do not suit to the actual used furnitures inside of ZAP 7. You please think exactly, what is the best for a NEW DD-furniture mod !!!

[worik]

48 minutes ago, t.ara said:

Isn´t it at least better, to add completely NEW furnitures to that mod???

Agreed! But I'd still be happy to have the old furniture available and completely integrated into all the other DDs. That will be an achievement in itself. Especially for a bloody amateur like me, (struggling this week with my first selfmade devices ).

Though all this ^ happiness does better belong into the DDC thread

[t.ara]

49 minutes ago, worik said:

Agreed! But I'd still be happy to have the old furniture available and completely integrated into all the other DDs. That will be an achievement in itself. Especially for a bloody amateur like me, (struggling this week with my first selfmade devices ).

Though all this ^ happiness does better belong into the DDC thread

That´s not my place for any further comments about this story.

At least it will be same way for me like I went in the past, so that I will start in this case a completely new mod with the DDc-based framework-official or unofficial, it´s KIMY´s descision-but not really my problem. as long the DD(c) framework is like it is now, it is totally not important, which sort of stuff to add there, it is yet not specialized and all categories of furnitures can be handled with it. From my point of view a good beginning would be some new designed vanilla suiting furnitures, which use the existing textures of skyrim, which can be used outdoor and also for indoor with a different model, and such a set can be based on existing stuff of skyrim like "the rack", "the torture-pole", "kneeling-bound", "wall-shackles", and furthermore a new pillory, a wheel, a new CRUX, outdoor crux (different models) and X-crosses and some bondage-poles).

Such a mod needs some energy in it´s making of.

 

[DonQuiWho]

1 hour ago, t.ara said:

Isn´t it at least better, to add completely NEW furnitures to that mod???

The old ZAP furnitures are boring. And they do not have a struggling animation btw. The concept is not exactly suiting without adding further animations...the old existing animations DO ALL NOT suit to the furnitures (bad alignment of hands/wrists/neck/collar positions), they were all made with older skeletons and so the actual characters do not suit to the actual used furnitures inside of ZAP 7. You please think exactly, what is the best for a NEW DD-furniture mod !!!

I had thought you had said 'no' to your new furnitures being used in the DD Framework etc?

 

Am I wrong?  If so, my apologies for asking incorrectly

[Psalam]

7 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

I had thought you had said 'no' to your new furnitures being used in the DD Framework etc?

 

Am I wrong?  If so, my apologies for asking incorrectly

Maybe I have it wrong but what I believe I remember both T.ara and Kimy saying was that they would be incompatible in that they would "automatically" exceed the animation limits.

[DonQuiWho]

1 minute ago, Psalam said:

Maybe I have it wrong but what I believe I remember both T.ara and Kimy saying was that they would be incompatible in that they would "automatically" exceed the animation limits.

I was really meaning use of individual models, not having both mods fully loaded

[Psalam]

Just now, donkeywho said:

I was really meaning use of individual models, not having both mods fully loaded

My apologies. In that case, I believe you are correct although I certainly wouldn't mind hearing that directly from T.ara.

[DonQuiWho]

3 minutes ago, Psalam said:

My apologies. In that case, I believe you are correct although I certainly wouldn't mind hearing that directly from T.ara.

No problem.  That's why I was careful how I asked the question.  It's been so confusing at points, that I could be completely wrong

 

EDIT:  I'm hoping that I am!  ?

[t.ara]

29 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

I had thought you had said 'no' to your new furnitures being used in the DD Framework etc?

 

Am I wrong?  If so, my apologies for asking incorrectly

 

The existing assets don´t suit to the DD(c) framework, because there are made two stages of animations for one furniture inside of DDc: the quiet animation and a second one, moderate struggling, which is beeing prepared inside the framework-which is an interesting option. If you take for example an older PILLORY of ZAP, you have only the old animation, which is still, or you can take also some struggle stuff in that case...anyway is it an older animation and it´s not fitting to the pillory any more, because the dimension of the gamer´s skeleton(female´s skeleton has been changed during the years) so it´s a chance to edit the pillory or to add new animations for it. The best of all is of course to add something NEW, so not to loose any further animation-space for yet existing animations which we all know. That´s why I suggested to create fully new assets for DDf.

 

I mean it´s not clever to overtake stuff, which is available inside of another mod if there´s an artistic chance for new animations and new furnitures.

(the work you put in making zap assets working is the same work that rather to create new stuff-it´s not worth the work and with new stuff you will feel much more better)

 

[t.ara]

22 minutes ago, Psalam said:

Maybe I have it wrong but what I believe I remember both T.ara and Kimy saying was that they would be incompatible in that they would "automatically" exceed the animation limits.

The problem is, that if you overtake ZAP assets, that the struggling function is not available-mostly...and the stuff is-boring?!....

It´s very easy to create new assets for DDf.  And you will again add same animations with other names again to FNIS...it´s very pity that way.

[DonQuiWho]

54 minutes ago, t.ara said:

 

The existing assets don´t suit to the DD(c) framework, because there are made two stages of animations for one furniture inside of DDc: the quiet animation and a second one, moderate struggling, which is beeing prepared inside the framework-which is an interesting option. If you take for example an older PILLORY of ZAP, you have only the old animation, which is still, or you can take also some struggle stuff in that case...anyway is it an older animation and it´s not fitting to the pillory any more, because the dimension of the gamer´s skeleton(female´s skeleton has been changed during the years) so it´s a chance to edit the pillory or to add new animations for it. The best of all is of course to add something NEW, so not to loose any further animation-space for yet existing animations which we all know. That´s why I suggested to create fully new assets for DDf.

 

I mean it´s not clever to overtake stuff, which is available inside of another mod if there´s an artistic chance for new animations and new furnitures.

(the work you put in making zap assets working is the same work that rather to create new stuff-it´s not worth the work and with new stuff you will feel much more better)

 

Forgive me for perhaps being a bit thick, but I am still not sure I understand all that - mainly because I can't get my head round exactly what the technical issues may or may not be

 

But, (unless the text in yellow is supposed to say it ? and I'm missing the point ), the bottom line question that I still am not sure you have answered is:

 

"Can ZAP9 assets be made available to Kimy & Co to use in DD Frameworks?  Yes, or No?"

[Kimy]

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

it's become abundantly clear the things you wish to allow to flourish here are glowing praises. Anything that might lead people to look to alternatives must be "taken apart", smashed, crushed, ridiculed, and its authors humiliated until they learn to stay silent.

No, really not. I can handle criticism quite well, as long it's presented in a constructive and polite manner. But when things start with a line sounding like "If you implemented it like this, you clearly didn't understand how Skyrim works!", or you call a feature of my mod "stupid and ridiculous" (without elaborating why, to add insult to injury), that's probably not going to end well, no.

I usually treat people the same way they treat me. If you're constructive and polite, I will be constructive and polite, or at least try to be. If you're condescending and rude (which you were), don't expect me to hold back, either. You're judging other people's work and views really harshly at times (not only mine), but you're apparently not all that great at taking a dose of your own medicine, as evident by your reaction.

 

For the record, I valued your past contributions and suggestions. The ones you DID present in a constructive fashion, that is. You're welcome to get back to this if you want. You just have to learn to accept a no for a no, sometimes. And perhaps be a bit more modest in presenting them and not imply from the get-go that people not liking the idea just haven't understood Skyrim and you're the only one that does.

[Leonais]

Thank you for putting this mod together, it's very much what I like. I have found though that it seems to bug up too frequently and I have to reload far too frequently, sometimes going back a long time. Bug examples would be -
- Devices visibly and functionally applied when they're not equipped, or even not in my inventory any more. Can't remove them even with the debug removal. Can't put anything in the slot as there's something there.
- Nazeem's quest - empty white arrow where he should be at the temple (fixed by reload and long repeat play)
- no garbage to find in Riften (found a solution online to setstage dcur_supplyquest to 60 in the end as it was not fixed on reload)

- obsidian boots not in the mansion for Leon's quest (I just gave up on that)
- quests and devices conflicting in various ways, for example queen's chastity set not all equipped as some slots already full

- I fully accept there will be normal mod issues like animation failures, occasional full crashes, .... and they do happen quite often.

 

As much as futility and struggling are part of the mod, I do feel it would be better if the player can do things to move the game forward and enjoy the cursed loot mod content rather than just get stuck waiting and repeating the unlock animations until something works. In this respect the rubber doll is better as there is a route through the quest to the finish. The slave belt was reload hell trying to get enough keys without losing them and meanwhile it got in the way of other mod content I wanted to play.

 

-Items could say which type of key is required.

-Escape options which will always fail could be greyed out (but not disabled in case the player just wants to see the animation).

-A 'try everything' option on escape might cut down the times the player has to see the same escape animation in a row (less fun each time).

-I'd certainly recommend having a few kinder default settings (I had to restart twice to get Chloe out of Riften due to seriously events in the first dungeon).

 

This is still a game and I feel that offering players choices (you can fix a bad thing by letting a different bad thing happen) is better than take it and suffer it.

[t.ara]

4 hours ago, donkeywho said:

Forgive me for perhaps being a bit thick, but I am still not sure I understand all that - mainly because I can't get my head round exactly what the technical issues may or may not be

 

But, (unless the text in yellow is supposed to say it ? and I'm missing the point ), the bottom line question that I still am not sure you have answered is:

 

"Can ZAP9 assets be made available to Kimy & Co to use in DD Frameworks?  Yes, or No?"

If you like to loose your chance for new assets, of course "one" can do it. The contence of ZAP 9 is free for LL. It´s mostly everything not made by myself.

But not for "Co" on different pages-only if Co=LL....I thought to create some stuff then after ZAP for DD...if I do not "piss" on somebody´s leg with that.

Otherwise I look to find another job,-....I wanted also to play with DD and I would like to play not again with the same stuff.....which we all know.

 

I suggested Kimy to overtake the existing mod***, I feed it with new furnitures and open a new thread (like I did with zap9) and then I build up some very cute furnitures into it. And after I have something to offer, I ´ll then upload the mod back to KIMY, so that she can bring you a new version.

Meanwhile she can think about to edit and tune the framework to the wishes of herself and to the wishes of the community. By choosing this way, you do not have to wait like it happen(s)(ed) with ZAP9 and you can update your mod with fresh contence from time to time.

 

***it´s that version, which is now download-able