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Vortex or Mod Organizer 2?


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12 hours ago, stopnamingmodsafteryou said:

Generating FNIS sometimes works with MO2 but almost always with Vortex.

As someone used MO2 for years FNIS doesn't work "sometimes", it works always. I would expect that to be the case with Vortex too. This is really first time someone says something like this so i'm confused.

 

There is a special case with FNIS where you have to manually reset the animations but that you would have to do even if you didn't use MO2 or Vortex. Say you install Creature Pack, build FNIS and play with it for some time. Then you remove Creature Pack, build FNIS again... and you see beasts going in T-poses. No amount of building will fix it, the animation files need to be deleted from meshes. In MO2 they are conveniently in either Overwrite or in mod you set it to output. With Vortex they are in actual meshes\ mixed with every mod in a nice mess.

Edited by Zaflis
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I've used MO/MO2 and NMM throughout years of mod managing my games. Finally switched to Vortex. Of course before Vortex, NMM and MO was my go-to mod managers as I want to try different managers before each upgrade of my rig. MO2 is harder to learn for the newbies compared to NMM which is newb friendly. But hey each mod manager provides info on their descriptions. You just have to pick yours base on your preferences.

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On 7/18/2021 at 11:21 AM, stopnamingmodsafteryou said:

It's a classic case of "it depends." Vortex downloads go straight to the data folder whereas MO2 has its own system and you HAVE to launch via MO2  though it won't leave behind loose files after deleting a mod.

 

Changing your load order is effortless with MO2 whereas with Vortex you have to create rules. With Vortex you can use BethINI settings and launch from desktop but with MO2 you gotta manually create new.ini files or copy/paste from Documents/My Games that only work when you launch through MO2.

 

[...]

And there's always Wrye Bash but that's beyond my skill level or doing it all manually but who got time for that?

Vortex mods do not go to the Data folder- the files are extracted to the Vortex Staging folders, and hardlinks are established in the Data (and subfolders) making it appear that the files themselves are there- which makes it much easier to verify and troubleshoot your mods because the files appear to be in the standard folders, not hidden as MO2 does.

 

Vortex does not "leave any files behind" when you uninstall a mod as you implied unless the user tells it to do that. There are 3 levels of mod disposal in Vortex:

  1. Disable- this simply deactivates the mod while leaving all of its files intact
  2. Uninstall/Remove- this removes the links to the Staged files and deletes the extracted mod files, leaving only the 7z/zip/rar archive intact
  3. Remove archive- this is an optional tick-box in the Remove popup. When ticked, Vortex performs Steps 1 and 2 above and additionally deletes the 7z/zip/rar archive

Users do not have to "create rules." Vortex uses the LOOT API and automatically sorts plugins when the user Deploys mods. It is not necessary for users to create any rules unless unresolved conflicts arise. For example, if a user has a plugin that has another plugin as a Master, Vortex/LOOT "knows" that the dependent plugin must be sorted after the Master even if both are ESPs, ESPFEs or ESLs. This means that almost all "patches" will be correctly placed below their Masters whether the LOOT metadata "knows" about them or not, making it unnecessary for users to intervene in 99% of conflict cases.

 

The only cases where user intervention is required is when a conflict arises between multiple mods that are not dependent on each other. For example, I have all of the Bijin (including Seranaholic and Valerica) and Metalsaber mods installed, plus a Serana+Valerica replacer. You can imagine that this creates several unresolved conflicts, and there is absolutely no way for Vortex or MO2 or any other mod manager to "know" what my preferences are in these cases. So Vortex pops up a window showing all of the conflicts with "suggested" priorities, and provides several possible user responses to each and every conflict:

  • Give Metalsabers priority over Bijin's main files but not Seranaholic or Valerica (mod-level prioritizing)
  • Give my Serana replacer's Serana files, but not the Valerica files, priority over Bijin and Metalsabers (individual mod-file-level prioritizing)
  • Give Seranaholic's Valerica files priority over vanilla Valerica and my Serana+Valerica replacer, but not Bijin or Metalsabers (mod-level and mod-file-level prioritizing)

Vortex also supports direct drag-n-drop of plugins to manually adjust the load order on the plugins tab, and it automatically memorializes these manual adjustments so users will only have to do them once.
 

At no point in the above processes do users have to make or write any rules- Vortex handles all of that based on the user's responses to the user-friendly Conflict Resolution pane.

 

Users can (and should) easily create shortcuts/integration for other utilities such as SSEEdit, BodySlide, FNIS, Wrye Bash, etc. Vortex will detect when an animation mod has been installed, updated, disabled or uninstalled and run FNIS automatically (when enabled)- users do not have to know which mods might require GenerateFNISforUsers.exe to be run.

 

Vortex does not require that you do any of your Skyrim (or whatever modded game) activity via Vortex. I have a tool shortcut to Wrye Bash on my Vortex Dashboard, making it easy for me to update my Bashed Patch when required. I accept the WB defaults for my Bashed Patch, and it has worked fine that way. There is no skill level required to run Wrye Bash from Vortex once you set the tool up on the Vortex Dashboard, nor any skill required to make your Bashed Patch since the WB defaults work well enough. However, unlike MO2, Vortex does not require that any of these tools be run through Vortex, or that you launch the game through Vortex. I have regular Windows Desktop shortcuts set up for all of the tools, as well as to launch the game via skse64_loader.exe, and which one I use at any given moment just depends on where I am. Frequently, I launch the tools, convert meshes or whatever, then launch the game from my desktop, with Vortex not even running.

 

Finally, Vortex has user-friendly features that MO2 simply does not have. Normally, users would have to use an SSEEdit script to detect plugins that could be light, but Vortex's Plugins tab shows which plugins are already "light masters" (ESLs or ESPFEs), and which plugins "could be light." Astonishingly, users can click the "could be light" icon beside a plugin and tell Vortex to flag it as an ESL-FE! No need for SSEEdit at all. This and Vortex's ability to automatically install SKSE64 correctly and install other mods that need to go into the Game folder instead of the Data folder (ENB Binaries, ENB Presets, some dll mods, etc.) by simply double-clicking the mod and changing the mod type to ENB or Engine Injector, eliminates the need to manually install anything!

 

Every time you Deploy with Vortex, it checks for externally-changed mod files, which happens to me all the time when I edit a mesh to separate an outfit's top and bottom halves so I can mix-n-match, or remove the FUGLEEEEEE utility belt from a Catwoman mesh, or when I make a recolor. When it detects these external changes, Vortex gives users the option to use the newly-changed files permanently, or revert to the Staged files, i.e. the version before the changes were made- this is handy when a user makes an inadvertent change- Vortex finds it for them and gives them the option to revert.

 

I get that you were just trying to give quick answers to the thread topic question, but please, at least provide accurate assessments. :classic_heart: :classic_biggrin:

Edited by Vyxenne
Because her fingers can't spell when wine is involved
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  • 2 weeks later...

Personally, I use MO2.

To be fair, I did give Vortex a try.

 

It worked. I didn't like the interface, because at 60+ yrs old, I'm a little old-school, and never liked LCARS.

That's it, my whole prejudice against Vortex is it's looks.

 

Now on the subject of Mod Managers, there will never be an idiot-proof one.

 

The universe will just create a better idiot . . .

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  • 2 weeks later...

MO2.

 

Completely Virtual System.  Yes there is wrench time you will need to put in to learn it.  If you really want to get into modding this will take you to the next level.

 

Left pane is installed mods.  Right is plugins.  MO2 will notify you by highlighting mod if it is overwriting or being overwritten.  Helps to identify issues.

I really like how you can go inside a mod within MO2 and hide files.  I use this for merged plugins.  You can hide the original mod plugin because it is now merged and no longer needed but what if you want to go back?  No problem just unhide the plugin.

 

You need to run Bodyslide, FNIS, Xedit, or other utilities from within MO2.  Yes you do.   That's because MO2 is virtual.  When it shuts down the game goes back to vanilla.

It's not really a problem.  You can explore the virtual file system from within MO2 if needed.

 

I recently had to install a new NVMe SSD.  I had a 1TB and went to 2TB.  This is where Win10 was installed.  With MO2 I simply zipped up the entire MO2 directory, Mods within, and moved it to the new drive.  I drag backups of each Steam Game to my 14TB Seagate when I don't need them actively installed.  Just drag them back when you want to play the game.  You may want to verify integrity of game files in case of corruption or updates.  Once Steam was reinstalled, games moved over from backup and MO2 with Modded games moved over, I was up and running in just hours after Win10 install.

 

Another huge feature that I really like with MO2 is profiles.  I have had CBBE profiles, Fusion profiles, All Out War profiles,  Settlement Build profiles and many more.  You can set up a particular goal you are going for, make a preset and play.  Select another preset before starting the game and you have a completely different look or gameplay.  

I often use this feature for troubleshooting.  CBBE versus Fusion, etc.  

If you have a stable game play go to your MO2/FO4/profiles install and copy your last profile, say Fusion, and rename to FusionTest.  Now you can play around with Mods and not worry about screwing up your stable build and your test is starting off at a stable build.

 

I know this comes down to something like Apple Vs. PC, iPhone Vs. Droid, Ford Vs. Chevy or what not but I just want to put my 2 cents into what I like in a Mod manager.

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Samuraitech said:

Completely Virtual System.

? ? ?

Ah, the mantra. Completely meaningless statement because neither you nor anyone else can come up with a reason that this is the world saving feature you claim it to be. Even Saint Tannin, blessed be his name, thinks it is less than perfect.

 

I use Vortex but:

On 8/8/2021 at 6:24 AM, judge007 said:

I didn't like the interface, because at 60+ yrs old, I'm a little old-school, and never liked LCARS.

That's it, my whole prejudice against Vortex is it's looks.

 

Now on the subject of Mod Managers, there will never be an idiot-proof one.

 

The universe will just create a better idiot . . .

Completely Hardlinked System. ?

Also designed by Saint Tannin, blessed be his name.

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Definitely Vortex

  • It is actively maintained
  • A modded game can be started without Vortex
  • The Game starts much faster when it is heavily modded
  • Manual conflict manager is pretty strong and detects inconsistencies
  • The plugin manager provides a lot of useful information (for modders and nerds)
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  • 3 weeks later...

For LE users I like to give a shout out to "MO1" , the OG.  Thats all I have ever used. 

 

 

Learning MO is so easy, Installing a few things might a pinch harder but the totality (installing mods,,rearranging mods in LO, uninstalling mods I say MO has to be easiest to learn? 

 

 

So my votes for MO2 even though I have never used MO2 or Vortex, or nmm. MO1 4life. 

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This is purely anecdotal: i started with vortex on skyrim, i agree it feels easier to use and with the YouTube guide it only took few vídeos to get going.

 

The issue is if you want try different mods - so you remove prev mods and try similar one - the first still seems cause issues despite not being active i assume its changes something in the game files.

 

I switched to MO2 those issues vanished the loot system seems to work better under mo2 too.

 

I wish i had skipped vortex entirely.

 

 

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Using NMM (Github) here because it supports several games in one go, aside from direkt functionality with Nexusmods it eats .zip and .rar mods without problems.

 

Vortex was removed after two days of pain, it has set file links that my windows account was unable to handle through permission denied.  MO2 would only be interesting, if one installation can deal with several games.

 

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1 hour ago, dribbles2 said:

This is purely anecdotal

No, that is user error.

I moved from NMM to Vortex over a year ago and have not had any problems with it and I install and uninstall mods continually both during games and from game to game.

 

1 hour ago, Zethaneff said:

Vortex was removed after two days of pain, it has set file links that my windows account was unable to handle through permission denied. 

Again that is user error. First never install any game in Program Files and second change the permissions if something requires it.

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On 6/16/2021 at 5:36 PM, Acesof4 said:

Hey guys, I have just recently started using Loverslab and I was wondering which mod manager do you use?

I am currently using Vortex and already have a lot of mods installed there from Nexus.

Would this be ok when using Loverslab mods? Or should I transfer to Mod Organiser 2?

Also I am a complete noob with this, so don't also know how to transfer from different mod managers. Is it easy or difficult? Is it even worth it?

Stay with Vortex. This is coming from a Mod Organizer user. 

1. you have many mods already installed in Vortex

2. Vortex is already familiar  to you, you know how things work through it.

3. Mod Organizer is more flexible and many ways to do the same thing however, that is more in line with more advanced users.

 

If you start really understanding what you are doing and want more flexibility in a mod manager then  ... and only when... you are ready to nuke things and reinstall the mods you have and configurations etc. Then and only then move to Mod Organizer.

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On 8/21/2021 at 5:41 AM, Grey Cloud said:

? ? ?

Ah, the mantra. Completely meaningless statement because neither you nor anyone else can come up with a reason that this is the world saving feature you claim it to be. Even Saint Tannin, blessed be his name, thinks it is less than perfect.

 

I use Vortex but:

Completely Hardlinked System. ?

Also designed by Saint Tannin, blessed be his name.

Virtual or Hard Links...

 

Doesn't matter one bit.  Both are tools to help keep  mods properly managed and not mess up the Data folder. That is it.  One is more persistent (Vortex) as the reason you don't need to launch the manager. The mods are already available .. .like all the time (Hardlink) MO, you have to run things through it.. So what. It is simple and easy once you understand the principle. (Virtual) Neither really matter for the common and even advanced mod users and yes.... even authors for the most part. Vortex allows you to use tools outside of the manger due to that persistent hard linked setup. Which takes most of the learning curve that you  would have in MO out of the equation.

 

The only question is do you need to have your data folder completely clean at all times due to other things you are doing and don't want to deactivate the mods through Vortex each time. The chances of you needing that is near zero. Also it takes very little time to deactivate the mods in the case that you do decide for some reason you need a clean folder. Most mod use and even mod development can use hard linked files that are persistent. Keep in mind I am a MO user. I really like how things flow and managed through it.  However, it means diddle shit it is a preference.

 

Both are very solid approaches to the issue of managing mods.  Also keep in mind that Tannin worked on both Vortex and MO.

 

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I seem to be a dying breed and has some relevance.  I'm still using NMM even though MANY have told me its inferior.  For some reason though I still prefer it.  I've used Vortex before and spending 30+ minutes trying to get rid of ads is pretty much a huge, "NOOO!!" from me.  NMM may be barebones but at least I don't have to deal with, "NVidia 3070," ads every time I load up the app.?

 

Now its been close to a few years so MAYBE Nexus got enough complaints that they got rid of all the ads but I'm of the opinion, "Once bitten, twice shy."  In my book, its ONE strike and you're out.?

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47 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

The mods are already available .. .like all the time (Hardlink) MO, you have to run things through it.. So what.

My point exactly. The MO evangelists always cite VFS as some sort of life-saving feature.

 

50 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

The only question is do you need to have your data folder completely clean at all times due to other things you are doing and don't want to deactivate the mods through Vortex each time. The chances of you needing that is near zero. Also it takes very little time to deactivate the mods in the case that you do decide for some reason you need a clean folder.

Exactly again. Vortex has the 'purge' function which does something with the mods without actually purging them. Never felt the need to use it myself so I'm not sure what it does or why it is needed.

 

10 minutes ago, legendarytoyou said:

I seem to be a dying breed and has some relevance.  I'm still using NMM even though MANY have told me its inferior.  For some reason though I still prefer it.  I've used Vortex before and spending 30+ minutes trying to get rid of ads is pretty much a huge, "NOOO!!" from me.  NMM may be barebones but at least I don't have to deal with, "NVidia 3070," ads every time I load up the app

I agree with you about the NMM part, used it myself for 4 years or without problems and I'm still not a fan of Vortex after 12-18 months. Haven't noticed any ads in that period (apart from the 2 for Nexus itself). The 2 Nexus ads annoy me but if there had been any 3rd party ads I would have bailed myself. 

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6 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

Exactly again. Vortex has the 'purge' function which does something with the mods without actually purging them. Never felt the need to use it myself so I'm not sure what it does or why it is needed.

 

I believe it is the process where the manager removes the files from the hard link list.  So that they are no longer present in the folder.  With MO you just shut down the program. That is essentially the only difference between the two programs. I could be wrong but I believe that is the purpose and what happens. Just a stronger version of disable (where one mod has been removed from the mods list.

 

 

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6 hours ago, legendarytoyou said:

I seem to be a dying breed and has some relevance.  I'm still using NMM even though MANY have told me its inferior.  For some reason though I still prefer it.  I've used Vortex before and spending 30+ minutes trying to get rid of ads is pretty much a huge, "NOOO!!" from me.  NMM may be barebones but at least I don't have to deal with, "NVidia 3070," ads every time I load up the app.?

 

Now its been close to a few years so MAYBE Nexus got enough complaints that they got rid of all the ads but I'm of the opinion, "Once bitten, twice shy."  In my book, its ONE strike and you're out.?

When I last tried I don't remember any ads in vortex.

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36 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

When I last tried I don't remember any ads in vortex.

I don't know its been a few years and I spent close to an hour trying to get rid of all the popups.  Like I said its been awhile and I'm not sure if it was just me but I found Vortex a bit on the disconcerting side.  I might try it again someday but to be honest I just prefer NMM.

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