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Vortex or Mod Organizer 2?


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I see everything that needed to be said was already mentioned by others, but just to give my two cents: MO2. One simple reason: It doesn't touch the game directory, instead uses a separate folder for any mods you've installed. If you intend to keep your load order light, let's say 20-30 mods, then it may not be that big a deal. Although I'd still argue it's better to keep your game folder clean, regardless of whether you use 20 or 100 mods. But if you're going with anything above that, keeping your mods installed elsewhere is going to make your time modding so much easier. On top of leaving the game folder clean, MO2 doesn't override any files from other mods permanently. Which will be something that occurs often, if you're going with a heavily modded playthrough. That way, you can put any number of mods on top of anything, and if by chance something doesn't work as intended in game because of overridden files, you can just drag them up or down in load order or priority window.
And MO2 is just as easy as Vortex to learn, I don't get why so many people have this perception of MO2 being somehow more difficult. If you didn't fail elementary school, or colored buttons don't confuse you, then you'll be fine.

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On 6/28/2021 at 2:14 AM, fred200 said:

NMM, unlike the other major mod managers, actually copies your mods to the game directory. Bad idea for a lot of reasons.

Which you will now give?

 

On 6/28/2021 at 2:14 AM, fred200 said:

Just one simple example.

Except that NMM will tell you that file C is about to be overwritten and give you the option of doing it or not. Anything after that point is down to the user.

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8 minutes ago, Umbra Nensei said:

Although I'd still argue it's better to keep your game folder clean, regardless of whether you use 20 or 100 mods.

Another one. ?

Mods don't go in the game folder, they go in the Data folder. Can you say why putting files into the Data folder is bad?

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On 7/5/2021 at 2:44 PM, Grey Cloud said:

Another one. ?

Mods don't go in the game folder, they go in the Data folder.


No. I said "game folder", and I meant "game folder". The entirety of it. Not just data folder. And I don't recall ever stating that mods go into the game folder specifically.
 

 

On 7/5/2021 at 2:44 PM, Grey Cloud said:

Can you say why putting files into the Data folder is bad?


I'm going to assume you've picked up a little more from my earlier reply than the ever so important difference between game and data folder, and that you've read it's entirety. Which already has an answer to that question.

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1 hour ago, Umbra Nensei said:

No. I said "game folder", and I meant "game folder". The entirety of it. Not just data folder.

What you mean and what is reality are two different things. The game folder is different from the Data folder. The Data folder is a sub-folder of the game folder. An ENB for example is installed in the game folder.

 

1 hour ago, Umbra Nensei said:

And I don't recall ever stating that mods go into the game folder specifically.

No? Then what does this mean?

 

On 7/5/2021 at 1:34 PM, Umbra Nensei said:

Although I'd still argue it's better to keep your game folder clean, regardless of whether you use 20 or 100 mods. But if you're going with anything above that, keeping your mods installed elsewhere is going to make your time modding so much easier. On top of leaving the game folder clean

 

1 hour ago, Umbra Nensei said:

Which already has an answer to that question.

No it does not contain an answer to my question. What it contains is your opinion that putting things in the game folder, or the Data folder if you prefer, is bad. I have asked you to provide some evidence for that assertion. You appear to be unable to furnish any such evidence and have had to resort to verbal dancing.

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26 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

[...] No it does not contain an answer to my question. What it contains is your opinion that putting things in the game folder, or the Data folder if you prefer, is bad. I have asked you to provide some evidence for that assertion. You appear to be unable to furnish any such evidence and have had to resort to verbal dancing.


I think I see now how you got 12k posts on this website. I've never said it's bad either, I even pointed out a case when it might be fine. Keeping mods in separate folders is a better solution due to convenience and ease of modding in heavier builds, which I've clearly stated. If you didn't care to read my reply in the first place, I'll spare myself the time and end it here.

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36 minutes ago, Umbra Nensei said:

I've never said it's bad either,

But that was the entire thrust of your post, the caveat about "20-30 mods" notwithstanding.

 

38 minutes ago, Umbra Nensei said:

Keeping mods in separate folders is a better solution due to convenience and ease of modding in heavier builds, which I've clearly stated.

No you didn't and in any case the above statement does not make sense:

1. What do you mean by "separate folders".

2. Why are these "separate folders" more convenient?

3. What constitutes a "heavier build"?

 

41 minutes ago, Umbra Nensei said:

If you didn't care to read my reply in the first place,

I've read your reply more than once.

 

42 minutes ago, Umbra Nensei said:

I'll spare myself the time and end it here.

Which always translates as I cannot backup my initial assertion.

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4 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

1. What do you mean by "separate folders".

2. Why are these "separate folders" more convenient?

3. What constitutes a "heavier build"?

Oh I'll give this a try. For all the talks about MO2 not touching the actual game install I guess not much has been said to present it as a practical thing.

  1. MO2 uses separate folders to keep mod files into separate locations (so mods with the same files don't overwrite each other upon installation, mod files don't overwrite game files). For example my MO2 stores each installed mod into its separate folder in \MO2\mods\<mod name>.
  2. These separate folders are listed in the main MO2 interface (left side/panel). So it's easy to see all the installed mods, enable or disable them, inspect individual files, check for conflicts and so on. This means you can enable entire mods (or individual files within said mods) and solve file conflicts in a couple of clicks and using a familiar interface (a list where you check/uncheck things, or viewing a folder similar to Windows explorer ones).
  3. Usually things like 600-800 installed mods (not necessarily 600-800 plugins or master files in a loadorder, although in SE you could get that much in a LO by using esl files...). Since MO2 can deal with conflicts, enabled/disabled mods and loadorder in the same interface without needing to worry about actual overwrites or unwanted changes to your game install (or other mods installs), it's easier to put together, organize and troubleshoot if needed large modlists. I think that's the reason you see guides like Skyrim SE for Beginners, The Phoenix Flavour, Nolvus or Lexy's LOTD guides utilizing MO2.

That's it. I understand you could achieve a similar effect in other mod managers like Vortex or Kortex where you can use some form of VFS, hard links or other shenanigans to add/remove mod files from your game at will. But like I said, you can do that in MO2 by looking at a single part of the interface and in a couple of clicks and the effects are instantaneous (you don't need to deploy files, copy/paste things, install or uninstall mods, etc.).

Edited by Just Don't
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2 hours ago, Just Don't said:

Oh I'll give this a try.

All of that just says that MO2 is an excellent mod manager (something I have no problem with). It does not answer the question of why having files in the game/Data folder folder is a bad thing. In other words, the way MO2 does things may be better but it does not follow that the other way is bad per se.

My beef is with people who constantly utter the mantra without giving any reason why this is such a bad idea.

Edited by Grey Cloud
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50 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

All of that just says that MO2 is an excellent mod manager (something I have no problem with). It does not answer the question of why not having files in the game/Data folder folder is a bad thing. In other words, the way MO2 does things may be better but it does not follow that the other way is bad per se.

My beef is with people who constantly utter the mantra without giving any reason why this is such a bad idea.

You don't need to reinstall games or mods whenever you want to restore files (to change an install setting/overwrite prompt, remove a mod completely, etc.). No need for backups in case of adding/removing something. You can launch an unmodded game, a fully modded game or anything in between in a couple of clicks (which is very useful for troubleshooting or testing different setups). And plenty of other variations of the same "I don't need to worry about mixing files because my game is there and my mods are here" idea. That's what I got from using MO now versus what I remember of dealing with modded files manually or with older mod managers.

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Still using MO 1.3.11

MO is espacially better when having multiple characters each with their own build and loadorder since it dosn't have to copy over files which is obviously faster.

Not sure if NMM supports savegame per profile but, again, only  needed when running multiple characters.

 

Afaik it dosn't really matter when it comes to MO2 or Vortex, just take either and stick with it.

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53 minutes ago, Just Don&#x27;t said:

That's what I got from using MO now versus what I remember of dealing with modded files manually or with older mod managers.

 That is a plus for MO/MO2 but it does not say why files in the Data folder is intrinsically bad. The way MO does may be better for the user but it does not mean that files in Data are bad for the game.

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6 minutes ago, Vader666 said:

Afaik it dosn't really matter when it comes to MO2 or Vortex, just take either and stick with it.

With NMM you get files in Data; with MO you don't get anything in Data. With Vortex you get the worst of both worlds - files in DATA and hardlinks. ☹️ I would very much like somebody to explain the why of that one too.

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58 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

 That is a plus for MO/MO2 but it does not say why files in the Data folder is intrinsically bad. The way MO does may be better for the user but it does not mean that files in Data are bad for the game.

Intrinsically bad no. After all that's the most basic way of using mods: to directly (re)place files. *bang* the "mods in \Data=bad" myth is debunked.

 

But my replies were about your 3 questions, particularly as your 2nd is about convenience. How inconvenient does something has to be to start calling it bad is up to each person I guess. I mean proving the opposite is quite easy from a facts perspective.

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9 hours ago, Just Don&#x27;t said:

But my replies were about your 3 questions, particularly as your 2nd is about convenience. 

But my 3 questions were directly related to the statements made by Umbra Nensei. And yet again the question of why having files in the Data folder is bad goes unanswered.

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5 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

But my 3 questions were directly related to the statements made by Umbra Nensei. And yet again the question of why having files in the Data folder is bad goes unanswered.

Like I said I would take it just as an opinion as it's far from being a verifiable fact that applies to every known case and move on.

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On 7/8/2021 at 10:17 AM, Grey Cloud said:

But my 3 questions were directly related to the statements made by Umbra Nensei. And yet again the question of why having files in the Data folder is bad goes unanswered.

 

I believe the theory behind this being bad is the potential for stray files being left behind when something is removed, how that would be an issue i've never really understood either since unreferenced files in \data would just get ignored i'd think - skyrim doesn't freak out about FNIS sticking a folder called tools in \data with stuff that is never directly referenced by the game, same with bodyslide

 

I suppose if this scenario did occur and you had some strays left (never noticed any mod manager doing that on uninstallation tho) they could potentially overwrite stuff in a .bsa

 

I've never really worried about it as i can delete the skryim folder and download again from steam in approx 30 minutes so maybe this is a concern for people with slow/patchy internet connection

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This has to be the 100th thread i've seen with the same topic (hyperbolically speaking). Use whatever you want, they all perform the basic task they're designed for which is managing mods. I never personally tried Vortex, simply because i can't be bothered to learn a new manager when i've already had a fantastic MO2 set up for so long but that doesn't mean everyone has to feel the same way. What's convenient for me may not be the same for someone else and vice versa, like i could never get NMM to work properly and think it's kinda crap overall but a lot of people have used it without any problems too.

 

TL;DR Experiment and find your groove. It's like a suspension setup or braking ratio, find the right balance for you.

Edited by Mr. Otaku
Slowpoke Typo Fix.
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On 6/17/2021 at 1:36 AM, Acesof4 said:

Hey guys, I have just recently started using Loverslab and I was wondering which mod manager do you use?

I am currently using Vortex and already have a lot of mods installed there from Nexus.

Would this be ok when using Loverslab mods? Or should I transfer to Mod Organiser 2?

Also I am a complete noob with this, so don't also know how to transfer from different mod managers. Is it easy or difficult? Is it even worth it?

I use Vortex and it works just fine, I just drag and drop the .zip files from loverslab onto the vortex download section unless the mod asks for a manual installation,

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