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Toys (a new framework) - Seeking Feedback & Ideas

VirginMarie

By VirginMarie,
in SexLab Framework

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Mister X

Mister X

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Posted

Is this meant as a replacement for, as you call it, "the framework that shall not be named"? So, can it take over the compatibility? I think that would be very hard to do from what I've learned but very interesting for all mod authors, as one doesn't need to rewrite his mod again.

 

Edit: I suggest you try your best to bind the toy registry as hard to provided engine methods as possible. There's a reason why the existing framework changed to Leveled Lists from Papyrus.

So, Formlists, Leveled Lists, Keywords, something like that. I'm not that deep into the CK yet, but I already recognized the huge performance boost the other framework has achieved. Eg. a mod author could build up a new Leveled List and add it to an existing one by Papyrus on registration, so it get's provided by the engine later on.

VirginMarie

VirginMarie

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Posted
37 minutes ago, Mister X said:

Is this meant as a replacement for, as you call it, "the framework that shall not be named"?

Indeed although, more like a very different "alternative". Toys will run side by side with that framework, but not require it.

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So, can it take over the compatibility?

No it won't be able to take over compatibility. That would mean its a patched copy more or less, and the owner of the framework that shall not be named would cry fowl, rightfully so, and have it removed. But I'd not do that even if that problem was non-existent, because to meet most of the "foundation" goals listed, it needs to be a fresh new start. There are major differences.

 

We are making it with ease of switching in mind though. In many cases, the effort to swatch will be about the same as the effort to update for the latest version of the framework that shall not be named. It's going to vary greatly from mod to mod. 

 

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I suggest you try your best to bind the toy registry as hard to provided engine methods as possible. There's a reason why the existing framework changed to Leveled Lists from Papyrus.

The plan is to see if we ever make Toys about being a huge library of toys, or if that is best as separate mods. We need to see what the needs are. Some mods use only or mostly, their own custom Toys and care not about the Library. For now a registry is not planned for version 1, and the library will be small. This could change depending on feedback.

Mister X

Mister X

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

We are making it with ease of switching in mind though. In many cases, the effort to swatch will be about the same as the effort to update for the latest version of the framework that shall not be named. It's going to vary greatly from mod to mod. 

Ok, that doesn't sound too bad

I keep this in mind and when it gets published, I see if I provide additional support for this framework ?

 

51 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

We need to see what the needs are. Some mods use only or mostly, their own custom Toys and care not about the Library. For now a registry is not planned for version 1, and the library will be small.

I can raise my mod as the exact opposite example: DMC doesn't provide any custom device and purely relies on the library to choose a random one. If now the framework itself only provides a small library and other mods can fill it, that's not the business of my mod. It would take what it gets.

Of course, it would be great to have a big library at hand. So my mod, as small example, would benefit a lot from any method that provides much variety, as such I'd love to see a method to fill the library eventually.

CaptainJ03

CaptainJ03

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

The plan is to see if we ever make Toys about being a huge library of toys, or if that is best as separate mods. We need to see what the needs are. Some mods use only or mostly, their own custom Toys and care not about the Library. For now a registry is not planned for version 1, and the library will be small. This could change depending on feedback.

I've never done much programming, but the one thing I learned is, that things tend to get much bigger than ever intended, and that seems to be the reason why the other mod author needs to do this big relaunch.

Make the non-existent library as easy to expand to HUGE sizes as you can, and write your handlers so that they can easliy locate and use a toy from an oversized lib.

 

For the wish list of toys I quote a remark from Mistress in SLtR: "I wonder what kind of sex toys could be built out of all these ancient dwemer parts? Maybe we'll find an original one I can use on you. Think of it!"

VirginMarie

VirginMarie

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Posted
7 hours ago, Mister X said:

I can raise my mod as the exact opposite example: DMC doesn't provide any custom device and purely relies on the library to choose a random one. If now the framework itself only provides a small library and other mods can fill it, that's not the business of my mod. It would take what it gets.

Of course, it would be great to have a big library at hand. So my mod, as small example, would benefit a lot from any method that provides much variety, as such I'd love to see a method to fill the library eventually.

Yes I know of others like yours too. I do think Toys is going to need a system similar to how Sexlab deals with animations. We can have "Toys Packs" instead of animation packs. And your advice on getting this right performance-wise I shall look into. Unless I come to see this as being not much work, I think I'd leave it out of the first release though.

7 hours ago, CaptainJ03 said:

Make the non-existent library as easy to expand to HUGE sizes as you can, and write your handlers so that they can easliy locate and use a toy from an oversized lib.

Yes I believe you are right. I know someone I might be able to get help from, for the design. Someone who knows the SLpacks real well.

7 hours ago, Baltasarr80 said:

May i ask if this might make use of as example the dwarven cuirass?

A mod author could easily make a mod that uses Toys to do any cuirass toy, so long as they have ownership/permission, of the models. The Cuirass could even "transform" (change its look). I'd likely not include it in the vanilla base library, but if the ideas above become reality, someone would then be able to provide the Cuirass in a Toys Pack.

7 hours ago, Mr. Otaku said:

By Dibella this is most certainly interesting.

I don't know about Dibella, but one of Nocturnal's Night Sisters is going to make several appearances in Toy Story to toy with you, and Zed.

2 hours ago, YojimboRatchet said:

maybe i finally have a reason now to push myself while i learn how code in order to create mods. watching this intently.

To help people wanting to do that, Toy Story will serve as not just a quest, but as a demo for mod authors. There will be documentation within Toy Story to make it easy to learn. No Buzz Lightyear though.

Psalam

Psalam

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

To help people wanting to do that, Toy Story will serve as not just a quest, but as a demo for mod authors. There will be documentation within Toy Story to make it easy to learn

This sounds VERY appealing.

 

30 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

No Buzz Lightyear though.

I can put him in my mod using TOYS though, right?

VirginMarie

VirginMarie

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Posted
1 minute ago, Psalam said:

I can put him in my mod using TOYS though, right?

First you need to be a talented modeler or find one. And then I think you'd want to do it as several parts. A Buzz Lightyear Toys Pack. Would you maybe skimpify him a bit? A buzzzzzing Buzz Belt?

Psalam

Psalam

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

A buzzzzzing Buzz Belt?

Depending on your framework I think I might be able to do that. I make no claim, however, to:

 

50 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

First you need to be a talented modeler

 

Roggvir

Roggvir

Posted
Posted
On 12/10/2020 at 2:48 AM, VirginMarie said:

Dependencies

If i understand correctly what you want to do, i recommend you add one more dependency: JContainers
It has some nice features that will come in very handy for storing all that toy related data.

VirginMarie

VirginMarie

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7 hours ago, Roggvir said:

If i understand correctly what you want to do, i recommend you add one more dependency: JContainers
It has some nice features that will come in very handy for storing all that toy related data.

Back when my SLaV mod once used SlaveTats, JContainers was a SlaveTats requirement, and I did use it directly a bit.

Later I dropped the dependency on SlaveTats and I use StorageUtil just a slight bit, instead of JC (which is part of PapyrusUtil and comes with Sexlab).

 

For Toys, I will look into both. Thank you for reminding me that I should.

 

Looks like you might have some potential resources, when looking at your mods :D

VirginMarie

VirginMarie

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27 minutes ago, lopez123456 said:

Since this framework is mainly SE based, any hope that you will port SLAV with it for an official SE version? :D

Toys will start out "mainly LE based".

 

I list "Built with SSE in mind. One codebase for both" as one of its foundations. Yes Toys will absolutely be coming to SSE. I'm interested in advice on how to make that easier by building it right in LE, avoiding things that make the port harder, etc.

 

And SLaV will come to SSE too, once Toys is ready, likely almost at the same time. I will be using both Toy Story and SLaV to test Toys.

VirginMarie

VirginMarie

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11 minutes ago, TeaAndBiscuits said:

I support anything that contains nice, heavy, metal chastity belts! They should be locked on everyone! (IRL of course ;) )

I'm sure I don't know anything about that.

Astarte29

Astarte29

Posted
Posted

I'm pretty new to modding overall, and use the framework that will not be named.

 

that said, I think an alternate framework would be very welcome indeed.  I'll be watching with interest-also, looking for SLaV -SE, i've seen some video and have become, shall we say, Daedra curious? ;)

 

 

Zaflis

Zaflis

Posted
Posted
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5.Everything Optional. Nothing Ever Forced

With basic rule in bondage taken away, i'm sorry to say it's just not my thing. Good luck with the project though.

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