Toys (a new framework) - Seeking Feedback & Ideas

[Prime66]

Alright, so without wanting to start any drama, one of the things that interest me most as a mod author and user is the question of compatibility. Will it be safe to install this along with Devious Devices as long as the Mods that utilize the Frameworks stay out of each other's way?

[VirginMarie]

6 hours ago, Prime66 said:

Alright, so without wanting to start any drama, one of the things that interest me most as a mod author and user is the question of compatibility. Will it be safe to install this along with Devious Devices as long as the Mods that utilize the Frameworks stay out of each other's way?

Yes, and better than you describe. Its designed with the intent of being able to play nicely with the other framework installed, and of course, work without it.

 

It's currently working where It's api, or manual interactions cannot remove devices from the other framework. You can't manually remove Toys toys either of course (nor use Player.RemoveAllItems), but the other framework's API will most often clobber Toys toys as it stands now.

[Prime66]

7 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

Yes, and better than you describe. Its designed with the intent of being able to play nicely with the other framework installed, and of course, work without it.

 

It's currently working where It's api, or manual interactions cannot remove devices from the other framework. You can't manually remove Toys toys either of course (nor use Player.RemoveAllItems), but the other framework's API will most often clobber Toys toys as it stands now.

Oh god, yes, that was a big concern for me.  Thank you for your answer. 
I wish you good luck and success on this project ill be sure to check it out once a release is available.  

[VirginMarie]

 

Toys Sneak Preview Video - Transformation
What you will see in this Video... Primarily it demos the Arousal Transformation feature. But you will see several other features while that happens:

• The Nipple Clamps will transform (melt color visual change) triggered by arousal increase, once, and transform back to normal at the end
• The Anal Bell Chain will transform (visual change looking broken) triggered by arousal increase, several times as the arousal level bounces up and down. I've not setup HDT for the broken version so the chain looks weird (truly broken I guess)
• When the Anal Bell Chain is "broken", the bell sound stops (because the bell fell off)
• Each time something transforms, there's a distinct sound effect and notification (option for notifications ON in MCM)
• In notifications, the arousal increasing due to the sum of the arousal strength of each worn toy. Notifications can be turned off
• Arousal decreasing, each time there is a Spontaneous Orgasm
• Spontaneous Orgasms that are set to be frequent, and will trigger when arousal is over 50 (normally you'd have this set much higher)
• "Fondle Thyself" animations after each Spontaneous Orgasm (this also triggers from other things, including a Sexlab Orgasm but not in this video)
• "Magical Wrist Bindings" animations when otherwise not busy because that effect has been added to the Wrist Cuffs worn

All of this can be achieved by a mod author, with no script, and with their own custom toys. Mod authors can also use the base library toys, or make a clone of a library toy and set up their own settings. Setup is done with keywords and very few properties. That's it. The End user has several MCM options to adjust or disable.

 

MCM & Toy Settings Used:

Spoiler

 

• Toys-Nipple Clamps will "Arousal Transform" to a melted look (ToysEffect_ArousalTransform keyword)
• Toys-Anal Bell Chain will "Arousal Transform to a broken visual (just a test, this would be used normally for Transform when hit in combat instead of the arousal trigger)
• Toys-Wrist Cuffs cause Magical Wrist Bindings (ToysEffect_MagicBind keyword)
• The Arousal Strength on each toy is also rather high, for testing, in Toy Properties
• Breast Group of Toys set to transform at arousal level 50 in MCM
• Pelvis Group of Toys set to transform at arousal level 60 in MCM
• Chance of Spontaneous Orgasm set very high, for testing, in MCM

 

 

I still feel like I'm on track for the planned first Alpha release before the end of this month.

 

Toys Discord Server https://discord.gg/DxuVBjPFZC

[VirginMarie]

Here's a teaser sampling of some of the branded toys we are working on for Toys.

 

  

 

  

 

  

 

 

 

Model credit goes to Audhol. Bodysliding credit to Durpledore.

 

More can be seen as it progresses, on the Toys Discord Server https://discord.gg/DxuVBjPFZC

[VirginMarie]

I'm looking for some help from fellow papyrus scripters, with a silly error in the log.

 

[01/09/2021 - 09:51:18PM] warning: Assigning None to a non-object variable named "::temp6"
stack:
    [toysframework (0A0012C4)].toysframework.HandleToy() - "ToysFramework.psc" Line 166
    [TStoryMain (3000697E)].tstorymain.TStoryHandleToy() - "TStoryMain.psc" Line 101

 

Line 166 in HandleToy() is this...

If Lib.ToysConflict(Toy, ActorRef, ShortModName)

 

And I've confirmed beyond all doubt that Lib, Toy, ActorRef, and ShortModName are not None, by displaying them in the log.

 

Line 166 is within this function...

Int Function HandleToy(String ShortModName, Actor ActorRef, Armor Toy, Bool UnEquipToy=False)

 

The function being called by the line generating the error (line 166), is this...

Bool Function ToysConflict(Armor Toy, Actor ActorRef, String ModName)

I'm to the point of declaring it a Skyrim bug (I've seen this lots in logs from other mods).

Its benign (nothing is actually going wrong),

but it spams the log and drives me crazy! Any ideas on how to suppress/fix?

[eliset]

IIRC you see this if the function ToysConflict doesn't have a return statement on all paths through it

[DayTri]

12 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

I'm looking for some help from fellow papyrus scripters, with a silly error in the log.

 

[01/09/2021 - 09:51:18PM] warning: Assigning None to a non-object variable named "::temp6"
stack:
    [toysframework (0A0012C4)].toysframework.HandleToy() - "ToysFramework.psc" Line 166
    [TStoryMain (3000697E)].tstorymain.TStoryHandleToy() - "TStoryMain.psc" Line 101

 

Line 166 in HandleToy() is this...

If Lib.ToysConflict(Toy, ActorRef, ShortModName)

 

And I've confirmed beyond all doubt that Lib, Toy, ActorRef, and ShortModName are not None, by displaying them in the log.

 

Line 166 is within this function...

Int Function HandleToy(String ShortModName, Actor ActorRef, Armor Toy, Bool UnEquipToy=False)

 

The function being called by the line generating the error (line 166), is this...

Bool Function ToysConflict(Armor Toy, Actor ActorRef, String ModName)

I'm to the point of declaring it a Skyrim bug (I've seen this lots in logs from other mods).

Its benign (nothing is actually going wrong),

but it spams the log and drives me crazy! Any ideas on how to suppress/fix?

 

Yeah as eliset said, most likely you forgot a return statement. If nothing is going wrong then probably the function should be returning False.

[VirginMarie]

11 hours ago, eliset said:

IIRC you see this if the function ToysConflict doesn't have a return statement on all paths through it

 

2 hours ago, DayTri said:

 

Yeah as eliset said, most likely you forgot a return statement. If nothing is going wrong then probably the function should be returning False.

 

Thanks for your help (and also the one person in Discord who helped)

 

I've not solved it yet, but isolated its cause.. The function that gets called, calls another function, and its this call that I've been able to prove, generates the error. 

 

The call to this other function looks like this (ToysConflictCheck)...

Bool Function ToysConflict(Armor Toy, Actor ActorRef, String ModName)
	If ! ModName || ! ActorRef || ! Toy
		Return False ;testing add a log msg
	EndIf
	If WArms && SWArms && Toy.HasKeyWord(Toys.Arms) && ActorRef.WornHasKeyWord(Toys.Arms)
		Return ToysConflictCheck(WArms, SWArms, ModName, ActorRef)
	EndIf

 

ToysConflictCheck looks like this...

Bool Function ToysConflictCheck(Armor Conflcting=none, String ConfSource="", String ModName="", Actor ActorRef=none)
	If ! Conflcting || ! ConfSource
		ToysLog("Internal ERROR: ToysConflictCheck() missing parameters", True)
		Return True
	EndIf
	Return False

 

For the sake of isolation/testing, currently the only active lines in ToysConflictCheck are those shown above. The rest is commented out (like couple dozens lines not show. There is of course just a EndFunction below that is active.

 

In this state, I still get the very same warning error. But If I do this (change the line in the calling fuction above)...

;Return ToysConflictCheck(WArms, SWArms, ModName, ActorRef)
Return False

 

... the warning error is gone.

 

EDIT: Also should mention, I've ruled out starting a new game (i.e. its not a changed property or some sort of save corruption. I've also ensured than any values that are properties, are filled in the esm. In some cases the fill is just "none".

 

Thus I'm still remaining stumped. 

[DayTri]

46 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

 

 

 

The call to this other function looks like this (ToysConflictCheck)...

Bool Function ToysConflict(Armor Toy, Actor ActorRef, String ModName)
	If ! ModName || ! ActorRef || ! Toy
		Return False ;testing add a log msg
	EndIf
	If WArms && SWArms && Toy.HasKeyWord(Toys.Arms) && ActorRef.WornHasKeyWord(Toys.Arms)
		Return ToysConflictCheck(WArms, SWArms, ModName, ActorRef)
	EndIf

 

ToysConflictCheck looks like this...

Bool Function ToysConflictCheck(Armor Conflcting=none, String ConfSource="", String ModName="", Actor ActorRef=none)
	If ! Conflcting || ! ConfSource
		ToysLog("Internal ERROR: ToysConflictCheck() missing parameters", True)
		Return True
	EndIf
	Return False

 

For the sake of isolation/testing, currently the only active lines in ToysConflictCheck are those shown above. The rest is commented out (like couple dozens lines not show. There is of course just a EndFunction below that is active.

 

In this state, I still get the very same warning error. But If I do this (change the line in the calling fuction above)...

;Return ToysConflictCheck(WArms, SWArms, ModName, ActorRef)
Return False

 

 

 

Do you get the ToysLog error in your log before you see the warning?

 

Seems like it should be fine but I guess the problem must be in the other lines somewhere, like you should have a return statement somewhere else in ToysConflict for if neither of statement you posted gets caught.

[VirginMarie]

47 minutes ago, DayTri said:

 

 

Do you get the ToysLog error in your log before you see the warning?

 

Seems like it should be fine but I guess the problem must be in the other lines somewhere, like you should have a return statement somewhere else in ToysConflict for if neither of statement you posted gets caught.

 

I have a return at the end that is the "catch all" if nothing else was true. 

 

HOT DAMN!! I did not have that! This was the reason! Thank you so much. I'm going to blame my husband for putting this blindfold on me, saying he's just testing Toys.

 

I still have to uncomment the rest of this stuff to really see it work. But I'm now the wiser. Can I give you a free toy for your help?

 

EDIT: and YESSSSSS it totally works without dumb log spam after I take all the commenting out.

[macnchz]

This should be the ultimate toy -  turning your pc or follower into a automaton!

[VirginMarie]

18 minutes ago, macnchz said:

This should be the ultimate toy -  turning your pc or follower into a automaton!

 

I totally agree! I've had a few others suggest this. One was for Toys, but also in the past, people wanted this in SLaV. I've actually looked closely at how it could be a toy, or toys. That was over 2 years ago. This could make great use of the Toys Transform feature too.

 

My take on this, and for any other sort of exotic toy, is that it should be done as a separate mod, that uses Toys, rather than included in the base library. Such mod would be a "Toys Pack". And I'm hoping we might have a few Toys Packs that other mod authors produced by the time the production V1 of Toys releases. There is at least one Toys Pack in planning stages. With Alpha Toys coming by end of this month, work on things like that can get an early start.

 

If anyone wants to do something like that, or something else, we have our discord server for collaboration https://discord.gg/DxuVBjPFZC

[Baltasarr80]

Like i said in the past if someone can make use of it do it ... we have the permission from MikeCG so everything with the Dwarven Cuirass is a go ...

 

[Deadly Kitten]

The update for the framework that shall not be named somehow made it so that my test Futa character can't penetrate anyone and i don't know why. i look forward to something more stable, i'm rolling back to what i know works and reverting to my backup save.

[VirginMarie]

1 hour ago, Deadly Kitten said:

The update for the framework that shall not be named somehow made it so that my test Futa character can't penetrate anyone and i don't know why. i look forward to something more stable, i'm rolling back to what i know works and reverting to my backup save.

 

If you are interested in helping, you could be handy as I've not any experience in Futa characters, but we want to support them. So far we've had lots of feedback on some aspects of "gender neutral" and have adjusted some design for that. Sounds like your character is not recognized as being male for the sake of a sexlab scene?

 

Best way to help if interested, is to get involved in Alpha and/or Beta testing. The first Alpha, which will cover some of the features for V1, is due to release in a few weeks. We have a discord server (in my sig) where the action is happening.

[Deadly Kitten]

On 1/13/2021 at 12:32 AM, VirginMarie said:

 

If you are interested in helping, you could be handy as I've not any experience in Futa characters, but we want to support them. So far we've had lots of feedback on some aspects of "gender neutral" and have adjusted some design for that. Sounds like your character is not recognized as being male for the sake of a sexlab scene?

 

Best way to help if interested, is to get involved in Alpha and/or Beta testing. The first Alpha, which will cover some of the features for V1, is due to release in a few weeks. We have a discord server (in my sig) where the action is happening.

Honestly, i was testing it to help someone on a discord i was in, since they wanted to play a Futa char. but my loadorder is a mess. I was cleaning it up, and havent finished yet. If things work on my save once i fix my bashed patch, i might be willing to test.

Specifically, blowjobs show up in the list of animations, but not anything vaginal. Might be more complicated, but idk. I"m kinda strung many ways rn.

 

EDIT: i'm using like sexlab tools or something to see the list of valid animations. I should look at the tags in the console if this is still happening.

[VirginMarie]

21 minutes ago, Deadly Kitten said:

Specifically, blowjobs show up in the list of animations, but not anything vaginal. Might be more complicated, but idk.

 

It's the mod that shall not be named animation filter which has loads of issues, and not just for Futa. I have a detailed write up about that HERE. It's why I can't make SLaV compatible with it, and was the final straw for why I started this Toys project. You are also complicating the matter by using sexlab tools. I don't know if that makes it better or worse.

 

There won't be an animation filter to test in Toys, you will get Sexlab, untouched. After Toys V1 we have ideas on adding some features with similar purpose, but will never be force changing the behavior of Sexlab.

[Deadly Kitten]

4 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

It's the mod that shall be named animation filter which has loads of issues, and not just for Futa. I have a detailed write up about that HERE. It's why I can't make SLaV compatible with it, and was the final straw for why I started this Toys project. You are also complicating the matter by using sexlab tools. I don't know if that makes it better or worse.

 

There won't be an animation filter to test in Toys, you will get Sexlab, untouched. After Toys V1 we have ideas on adding some features with similar purpose, but will never be force changing the behavior of Sexlab.

Yeah, all i had on was piercings for clit/nipples, didn't expect that to cause problems. I need to tame my loadorder, but for now i am just rolling back to a prior load order i had working before upgrading that mod. I didn't expect that mod to create such a mess, really really annoying to start a 2 person animation then suddenly get thrown into a solo animation.

[VirginMarie]

11 minutes ago, Deadly Kitten said:

Yeah, all i had on was piercings for clit/nipples, didn't expect that to cause problems. I need to tame my loadorder, but for now i am just rolling back to a prior load order i had working before upgrading that mod. I didn't expect that mod to create such a mess, really really annoying to start a 2 person animation then suddenly get thrown into a solo animation.

 

When I think about it, it might be because Sexlab can only see an actor as either male or female, but with Futa, you want it to treat you as either. Do you know if Sexlab can do otherwise? With no filter, its going to find animations to play more easily however it treats the PC. But I'd half expect its going to go wrong, just not as easily, with or without the filter.

[Deadly Kitten]

18 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

When I think about it, it might be because Sexlab can only see an actor as either male of female, but with Futa, you want it to treat you as either. Do you know if Sexlab can do otherwise? With no filter, its going to find animations to play more easily however it treats the PC. But I'd half expect its going to go wrong, just not as easily, with or without the filter.

I told sexlab to consider myself male, so went with that. I can manually change the animation to vaginal in sexlab, so at least the animation *works*.

 

 

Loaded my old loadorder and the associated save. Only change between this loadorder is that certain mod (and i also deleted a few bikini armor mods to get back under the mod limit).

My old save works flawlessly, and triggers missionary sex as expected when using Matchmaker. So i'm pretty sure its that one mod that won't stop limiting what animations i can be in.

 

EDIT: so yeah. I can let that guy i was helping know that even in my cracked save, things still work. Now just to get back to 60FPS @ 4k somehow. Not sure what i broke, but that's another project for another me.

[private_johny]

19 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

 

When I think about it, it might be because Sexlab can only see an actor as either male or female, but with Futa, you want it to treat you as either. Do you know if Sexlab can do otherwise? With no filter, its going to find animations to play more easily however it treats the PC. But I'd half expect its going to go wrong, just not as easily, with or without the filter.

 

 

SexLab works fine with Futa... we can detect Futa by combination of  Actor.GetIsSex (Female) and Actor.GetInFaction(SOS_SchlongifiedFaction). And SexLabTreatMale KYWD.  Some mods proceed required changes for actors automatically .  But as for Toys - Futa require another meshes for its, because Futa Schlong has another mesh disposition, than SOS Regular. 

 

SexLab KYWDs SexLabTreatMale/SexLabTreatFemale - its analogue to Top/Bottom, Active/Passive. So if we using SexLabTreatMale on NPC(Female), it's take active male role, and basically - use strapon. But for Futa character, this mods disable strapon auto use. SexLab filter animation not only by gender, and also by this keywords. SexLab counts male/female/creature actors, filter animation register, and select actors disposition in animation. 

 

So if you want detect and change Toy logic for them - you can add SOS Full as master, and make required checks. But if you do it - you may have problems for SAM users. And you can use Game.GetFormFromFile for try to do it without using master-file. Some mods use this way to check SOS options, without adding it to master-list. Or search about "inter-mod communication". 

 

 

But actually, i think, Futa Toys Pack should be not in main version. 

 

 

 

[VirginMarie]

15 minutes ago, private_johny said:

SexLab works fine with Futa...

 

All of this information could become very helpful, but Toys will have no Animation Filter for v1 (no messing with the sexlab scene). So I'm not sure I have a use case yet.

 

After V1, I have some ideas on similar functionality (still not ever messing with the sexlab scene though), for "Toy appropriate animations" which would be optional.

 

But until then, I don't think Toys needs to know if a character is futa or not. I have not yet thought of a use case where Toys needs to know. The reason to get people testing futa, is to find such use case, if one exists. So let's focus on the need, if any, before focusing on a solution. Let me know if you have already thought of a use case.

[private_johny]

41 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

All of this information could become very helpful, but Toys will have no Animation Filter for v1 (no messing with the sexlab scene). So I'm not sure I have a use case yet.

 

After V1, I have some ideas on similar functionality (still not ever messing with the sexlab scene though), for "Toy appropriate animations" which would be optional.

 

But until then, I don't think Toys needs to know if a character is futa or not. I have not yet thought of a use case where Toys needs to know. The reason to get people testing futa, is to find such use case, if one exists. So let's focus on the need, if any, before focusing on a solution. Let me know if you have already thought of a use case.

 

 

Some toys will be not compatible with Futa characters. It's not about filter SexLab animations (i remember we will not do any filtering). Nipple piercing, Mouth Gag, Anal Plugs, Collars should work fine as is. But genital-related items will cause mesh problems. It will require other meshes. Because Futa SOS position different from SOS Regular.  

 

It's will be easier if Futa be a separate race. Then we will make separate ARMA and set its race. But Futa technically - "woman with attached schlong", and for its we need custom check and mesh replacement. Actually, i think for additional keyword for TOYs to handle it, if not exists, or FormList, or Faction, or other method that provide information about race/gender compability with concrete toy. As it done for schlongs in SOS. If we don't do it - we will have schlong throw chastity belt, or vaginal plug inside schlong/balls.

 

For existent TOYs, as example Nipple Piercing, we will make different meshes/sliders/textures for male/female, put it in  ARMA/ARMO, set slots, set Alowed Genders = Male+Female, set other framework-related data. And it also be work with futa - if futa use standard female body supported by TOYs.

 

But  as example, Vaginal Piercing, may cause problem. Yes, we create meshes/sliders/textures, creating ARMA/ARMO, and may not set meshes for male model - it will be invisible on male. But Futa gender is female, and meshes will be display. Only way - make special check for Futa, and not allow them equip this item. 

 

In that reason, I recommend add some checks and way to setup toy as compatible with Male/Female/Futa. And some blocking.

 

And remember, we also have FTM, but it's very rare variant. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VirginMarie]

59 minutes ago, private_johny said:

But genital-related items will cause mesh problems. It will require other meshes. Because Futa SOS position different from SOS Regular. 

 

Let me see if I can simplify the Futa problem to solve:

• Due to positioning of Futa SOS, toys in slots ToysType_Pelvis and  ToysType_Genital will have alignment problems. They will need different bodyslide data setup, or possibly a whole different mesh model
• This includes Chastity Belts, and Clit/Penis Piercings
• Plugs, including vaginal, are not a problem

Futa support for Toys = providing Chastity Belts, and Clit/Penis Piercings that position and fit correctly

 

One solution might be to provide an alternate bodyslide package/option. When Toys releases, it will have support for 2 bodies. UUNP HDT and CBBE HDT. We could later have a 3rd bodyslide package.... UUNP HDT for Futa, for example. which would just give you the differences where needed. Toy's would not need to know you are Futa in this scenario, because the user is just choosing what bodyslide package to use.