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1 hour ago, PicklePackle said:

Oh yeah, ok. I figured it out. Thanks for the response. I just didn't understand how followers worked. Two issues I did find when using it, is it seems that the follower doesn't actually die, just turns into a ragdoll. Which means I can't loot or drag the corpse around at all. I don't know if there's an option to fix this, so correct me if I'm wrong. Also when hung the ragdoll will just spin indefinitely on the rope, which is a little annoying too. I would prefer if there wasn't a spin. I can never tell if this type of stuff is an issue with the mod or conflictions with other mods. 

Otherwise this is a really cool mod and I would like to see where it goes. I also look forward to the other devices you make.

FWIW, some versions of 'Defeat' don't play too nicely with this mod

 

In case you missed it, there's a note on the front page as to which version you do need to use, and there is some info further up this thread about that which you might want to look at

 

Hope that might help

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As donkeywho said, this was probably mentioned earlier in this thread, but to sum it up:

1-people not "really" dying:

This happens when a victim is protected by an essential quest alias. In the Vanilla game, Serana is the only character with this protection, but many mods use them as well. SL-Defeat for example, and most likely UFO as well. But in order to clear a character from an alias, i would have to reference the specific mod within the script. This isnt impossible, but really tedious to do. Maybe if my day-job shuts down again as it did in  April, i will be bored enough to do that, but i dont think this will happen anytime soon.

 

2-Infinite Spinning:

this is caused by the crossed Arms of the original gallow-wait animation. Could easily be fixed by changing the arms position, but here comes the "I cant animate problem" again.

I really am considering to make the switch to DSmax and do it myself, since this problem keeps popping up. But this would take some time ofc.

For the time being, you can use the wheel before opening the Trap. This minimizes the Problem.

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Oh no you don't have to go through that. If it is an issue with essential NPCs I am pretty sure that UFO has an option to make them non-essential. I'll have to check though. If it's that much effort for an thing I can fix myself I'd feel bad to make you go through it lol. I can imagine how difficult it would be to make this sort of mod.

 

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I'm currently on SL Defeat v535, how do I update to the fixed version? I don't want to assume I can just use Mod Organizer and add the archive and everything will be perfectly fine. I saw some talk of cleaning saves, how exactly do you do that when it comes to mods/scripts?

 

Hopefully I can figure this out, can't wait to try this mod out.

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Well, you completely uninstall your current version and then install the fixed version.

that should usually do the trick.

A "clean save" is just a savegame made before the original SLDefeat was installed first. This way you can be sure there are no leftover propertys present in your game. alternatively, you can wait 30 ingame days for the propertys to update themselves.

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Thanks! So I can just use the "remove mod" option in MO2, spend like half an hour in game waiting since I want to keep my current save, and then just use MO2 to install the fixed version? I thought it would be more complicated. 

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Have installed the SE version of your gallows and the Sexlab Defeat Port to SE. Here in this thread it is said, that the old default 5.3.5 (LE) version of "Defeat" doesn't work properly with your mod. What about SE? I can't really find out which version of Defeat SE I should use. It's not quite clear, if the postet SE port is the latest version with all fixes and enhancements.

For now it works more the less, but when I order a follower to use the gallows, he equippes a second hanging rope behind his neck. Secondly the garotte option doesn't work. Can't lift up the victim to strangle it. The trapdoor works, but the health decrease doesn't. Right that moment the victim falls the lth bar decreases about half, but then it slowly recovers to full health again, even the NPC is still hanging in some bleed out state (knocked out).

 

BTW: Wanted to post this in the related SE thread. But for some reason can't find the SE download anymore nor the related support thread. Odd, downloaded this thing some time ago but can't find the link right now.

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@Ralph.B

Your Problem ist most likely caused by an improper installation, rather than a compatibility issue with Defeat.

Make sure my mod is loaded after Zap8 (Data-Files!, not just the esp). And also make sure to run finis after you´re done.

 

As for the undying followers:

This happens when a follower is protected by another mods Quest Alias. maybe you have UFO or something on that category installed?

Unfortunately, there is no command available with lets me scan for actors Aliases, so i would have to manually reference every possible mod which applies them. And that would be very tedious. But it should work on all Vanilla followers other than Serana.

 

PS: i don't have a dedicated download/support thread for the SE version.

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Thanks a lot for your reply. It was indeed a faulty installation. After reinstalling it works as intended.

Well, about the immortality: I'm using AFT and totally forgot, that it sets the essential flag to followers that are recruited by this mod. After disabling it via follower dialog Lydia was gone after hanging arround some while - upps.

 

Now I only whished I would not be that clueless about placing thing in the world of skyrim ....

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Ralph.B said:

Now I only whished I would not be that clueless about placing thing in the world of skyrim ....

Well, there is a Manual with images available in the download section to do just that. But since this thing was originally intended to be used by modders, the manual assumes that you know how to use the Creation Kit.

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@disagree11

The problem is, that interactive BDSM triggers a session whenever a suitable Zap Furniture is entered. And a character dying during such a session triggers some OnDeatch() event within I-BDSM, which in turn causes the obvervable physic glitches of the gallow. This problem would be easier to fix on Musje´s end.

 

@Musje, is there some easy way to prevent a furniture to trigger a session? possibly by adding a keyword?

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@Pamatronic

 

As probably the current resident expert on Heretic/Havok use (\puts away the buttering up and soft soap LOL), I was hoping you might be able to help me with something simple

 

I cannot get the Havok chains in Musje's Home Sweet Home to work consistently.  Musje also says that they are problematic

 

My 'gut' feeling is that something else in game does not play nicely with the chain attachment mechanisms, which seem to be reliant on the NPC being 'paralysed'

 

There are all sorts of weirdness re Skyrims' alchemical effects, NPCs moonwalking etc (Google is full of them), and I got some of those originally on the gallows, but latest versions seem to be OK

 

My question is, tho, have you tried the Heretic test zone, and if you have, did the NPC chains attach to the test NPC consistently in one session there, ie on, off, on off, etc, or did the NPC bork out?

 

If that all works properly for you, then there probably has to be something somewhere else, and that might make my continued searching for a solution to the problem worthwhile

 

But, If none of that is relevant to anything you have done, please just ignore this

 

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i didnt test it myself (to many prerequisites), but i can make a few educated guesses.

 

First of:

you seem to have this strange misconception about the paralysis effect, since you brought this up in the SL-Defeat thread too.

clarification: NOTHING in the entire physics engine has anything to do with the paralysis effect (or any other magic/alchemy effect)

The havoc constraints used for the chains rely on the Actor being in RAGDOLL state, not the paralysis effect. Paralysis is just a convenient way to achieve the Ragdoll state.

 

About your specific problem:

This is most likely a problem in the script used, rather than something at your end.

 

The one important thing i learned while making the gallow is, that the constraints need to be cleaned up manually.

not cleaning these up wont cause any immediate problems, but it will prevent them from being re-attached later.

 

Test the following:

when you load the game, does the very first attempt to attach an NPC´s work reliably?

If it does, but problems occur AFTER the NPC has been released/re-attached, you have your confirmation of a faulty cleanup routine.

 

hope this helps.

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33 minutes ago, Pamatronic said:

i didnt test it myself (to many prerequisites), but i can make a few educated guesses.

 

First of:

you seem to have this strange misconception about the paralysis effect, since you brought this up in the SL-Defeat thread too.

clarification: NOTHING in the entire physics engine has anything to do with the paralysis effect (or any other magic/alchemy effect)

The havoc constraints used for the chains rely on the Actor being in RAGDOLL state, not the paralysis effect. Paralysis is just a convenient way to achieve the Ragdoll state.

 

About your specific problem:

This is most likely a problem in the script used, rather than something at your end.

 

The one important thing i learned while making the gallow is, that the constraints need to be cleaned up manually.

not cleaning these up wont cause any immediate problems, but it will prevent them from being re-attached later.

 

Test the following:

when you load the game, does the very first attempt to attach an NPC´s work reliably?

If it does, but problems occur AFTER the NPC has been released/re-attached, you have your confirmation of a faulty cleanup routine.

 

hope this helps.

A very big thank you!  Yes, it does!

 

I had seen the references in Heretical scripts and had assumed exactly what you said

 

And yes, in the Heretical test centre, I do get the things to work once, and then they don't work the second time. 

 

In HSH, they seem to be reattached every time that your PC enters the cell in which you left the chained NPCs - at least that's what I understand the intro text and thread content to be saying - so maybe the point at which they have 'detached/fallen off' on the PCs departure is the real problem. 

 

I'll mention this to @Musje to see if that might give any further clues on this

 

Thanks again

 

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
Quote

How to use on NPC´s

-Command your follower to use the Gallow Furniture. Or use the SetFavorStat command for any other NPC

-using the Lever now will do the obvious thing.

-you can use the Wheel at the side of the Gallow to hoist your victim up, as seen in the screenshots. Victim will loose HP if you do this.

-punching the Gallow will bring the victims back to its feet. ("punching" = "attack")

-punching the Gallow AGAIN will completely release the Victim

-if your victim IS DEAD, punching the gallow will remove the corpse and reset the Gallow

? could we do something with this "punching" thing? It doesn't feel like the right thing todo.

 

A better interaction would be e.g.

  • use the wheel to hoist the victim
  • use the wheel again to lower it, so it's like a simple toggle
  • sneak-activate the wheel to release the victim
  • use the wheel on a dead actor for the reset

Or make it simply a dialogue box for all 4 interactions?

 

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On 6/18/2020 at 2:32 PM, worik said:

? could we do something with this "punching" thing? It doesn't feel like the right thing todo.

fair enough.

I´m currently working on the combined MCM for the Gallow and my other Devices.

Since this will require some adjustments anyway, i´ll address this issue then.

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36 minutes ago, Pamatronic said:

Since this will require some adjustments anyway, i´ll address this issue then.

Oh, and since we are talking about christmas wishlists:

 

Perhaps I misunderstood the "non-lethal" device, but a floating transition between non-lethal and lethal behaviour would be welcome.

E.g. by default it is non-lethal. But if the victim is hoisted long enough it would first go unconscious and if left in that state for some time it's lethal (E.g. we need a timer property with a default of 2 realtime minutes.).

 

That way, we have a device that leaves it up to the ingame decision rather than the modders.

 

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1 hour ago, poblivion said:

I think piss can be easily added. It is part of ZaZ

This isn't exactly a question of being easy/hard to implement,

but rather a question of me having a slight aversion towards scat.

 

And besides that would it cause some problems with the regular functions, because equipping/unequipping the ZAZ-object would require a timer.

Due to the limitations of papyrus, its very cumbersome to have more than one timed function running simultaneously. And I need that one timed function for more important stuff.

 

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4 minutes ago, Pamatronic said:

This isn't exactly a question of being easy/hard to implement,

but rather a question of me having a slight aversion towards scat.

 

And besides that would it cause some problems with the regular functions, because equipping/unequipping the ZAZ-object would require a timer.

Due to the limitations of papyrus, its very cumbersome to have more than one timed function running simultaneously. And I need that one timed function for more important stuff.

 

Hi, to avoid misunderstandings, I am not interested in adding this feature. I just wanted to inform "santardo" that there is this option.  If he wants, he can run this function himself simply by dressing "ZAZ F2 PEE I" before or during the execution.

 

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4 hours ago, worik said:

Perhaps I misunderstood the "non-lethal" device, but a floating transition between non-lethal and lethal behaviour would be welcome.

E.g. by default it is non-lethal. But if the victim is hoisted long enough it would first go unconscious and if left in that state for some time it's lethal (E.g. we need a timer property with a default of 2 realtime minutes.).

 

That way, we have a device that leaves it up to the ingame decision rather than the modders.

 

while i agree that this would be a nice Idea for a fleshed out mod (save your follower or someone else), i dont think it makes that much sense for this small disconnected Gallow.

 

Because if you use it in its current state, you probably know beforehand whether or not you want your victim to be dead Or not. So a MCM toggle should be sufficient for now.

Besides that would this again lead to the same problem i described in #223, a timer (especially a 2 min timer) would cause severe problems due to the way papyrus handles its thread-management.

This Could be comfortably done within a quest-structure, but trying to cram it all into a single objectReference is not realistic.

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