Devious Followers - Continued

[legraf]

14 minutes ago, Crota said:

I drink the potion it starts the quest and all deals are removed but nothing changes aside from that? No new chat options with follower or any input at all....

Perfect, you're free of deals, everyone's happy... why do you think there should be more?  

 

Wait the number of days configured in your MCM, and then see.

[Shion11]

ok, after poking this mod, it seems like the classic deals are uneffected, almost all of the modular deals are uneffected except vaginal piercings and occasionally the debt counter seems to freeze at followers 2.10. the piercings bug seems to be from 2.08 to current and causes the dialogue to dismiss followers to dissapear. i had this happen after i uninstalled 2.10 and reinstalled 2.08

 

the problem if freezing debt doesn't seem to effect 2.09 but i'll test that later.

the screenshots that show all deals in use are 2.09(dunno if i posted the 2.08 screenshots but it's identical.)

the 2nd screenshots show the bugs and apperently the debt does freeze after 2.08

 

Edit 1: forgot to mention the days remaining is bugged last time i tried it on 2.10

edit 2: still have problems dismissing followers in 2.10, just saw the notes on the 2.10 update closely right now.adding proof with 2.09 and 2.10 not fixing dialogue bug.

Edit 3; forgot to mention that EFF worked well with prior versions and didn't show any conflicts, infact it prevents EFF from dismissing a fillower too.(2.08-.10 versions) going to wait for a fixed version ti reinstall.

[Crota]

13 hours ago, legraf said:

Perfect, you're free of deals, everyone's happy... why do you think there should be more?  

 

Wait the number of days configured in your MCM, and then see.

ahh, thats what i missed thank you.

[The Zen]

Thanks for the 2.10 update, it finally started working.

 

I have a question though. You can accumulate fatigue if you set it up in the MCM, but how do you get rid of it? It mentions something about donations in the temple, but the only donation I found was the one in Riften for 5 gold. Am I missing something here?

[gilliebillie]

is the follower selection for which you get sent to after Simpel Slavery random? I never get sent to custom followers.

[Sucker343]

10 hours ago, gilliebillie said:

is the follower selection for which you get sent to after Simpel Slavery random? I never get sent to custom followers.

You have to mark a follower type NPC as slaver for simple slavery outcome using DFC MCM. Then go to simple slavery MCM, disable all but DFC for guaranteed DFC enslavement.

[Monoman1]

What exactly is meant to happen in the Jarl/pet suit mini game?

I seem to be stuck. I'm in the pet suit and people all have blocking topics like 'I can tell your master treats you well etc'. If I talk to Jarl Baalgruff he just dumps me out of dialogue... So I'm guessing something's gone wrong for me?

[Reesewow]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

What exactly is meant to happen in the Jarl/pet suit mini game?

I seem to be stuck. I'm in the pet suit and people all have blocking topics like 'I can tell your master treats you well etc'. If I talk to Jarl Baalgruff he just dumps me out of dialogue... So I'm guessing something's gone wrong for me?

Been a while since I triggered it and it was in the non-continued versions, but I *think* it progresses by either speaking to the jarl in the cell or by simply getting near enough to them for the follower to strike up conversation.  The rest progresses from that follower-jarl dialogue.

 

I think the quest is dynamic however, and triggers based just on the cell type - I had the game trigger once in a new lands mod in a faction leader's cell, but I seem to recall it couldn't complete because no NPC in the cell had the job of "jarl".  I think I fixed that by editing the leader NPC in that mod to include the job, and it progressed.  So may be worth checking the quest variables and see what NPC the mod has selected as being the local Jarl - perhaps there are more than one npc marked as such in Dragonsreach for whatever reason and the mod picked the wrong one.

[stobor]

It can also get stuck if for some reason your follower isn't close enough to the Jarl to do his part of the scene.  I've had that happen once or twice, and had to coax the follower closer.

[Clockwinding]

Hello,

 

Same as some other people here, I'd like to bump the invisible deal problem on V and N piercings. Both modular and old school. The debug MCM option to add/remove those two items also doesn't work.

 

I'm using 2.09 installed on top of 2.08, as written in the DL page: "You can upgrade to 2.09 from any version from 2.02 upwards, without a new game or clean save, just drop it in."

[Guest]

One thing that might be cool is a debt modifier based on arousal. For example calculating the rolling average (avg_{n+1} = avg_n + (x - avg_n)/(n+1)) should be fairly inexpensive by adding a new point x every 10 or so seconds. It would give an incentive to keep your follower satisfied, but it might get too out of hand if you have some deals which would keep your follower more aroused.

 

Edit: Thinking over the implementation a bit, it might be more robust to instead use e.g a fifo queue of a set length to calculate the mean, since otherwise paying setting the debt and resetting the mean would cause problems if waiting until the next debt calculation

[Monoman1]

21 hours ago, Reesewow said:

Been a while since I triggered it and it was in the non-continued versions, but I *think* it progresses by either speaking to the jarl in the cell or by simply getting near enough to them for the follower to strike up conversation.  The rest progresses from that follower-jarl dialogue.

 

I think the quest is dynamic however, and triggers based just on the cell type - I had the game trigger once in a new lands mod in a faction leader's cell, but I seem to recall it couldn't complete because no NPC in the cell had the job of "jarl".  I think I fixed that by editing the leader NPC in that mod to include the job, and it progressed.  So may be worth checking the quest variables and see what NPC the mod has selected as being the local Jarl - perhaps there are more than one npc marked as such in Dragonsreach for whatever reason and the mod picked the wrong one.

Hmm. Right. The quest might have selected Vignor Graymane instead. Never thought of that. Not sure he's in the jarl faction. I would have thought that he wasn't untill the civil war quest was finished. But this is bethesda we're talking about

Unfortunately I reloaded an earlier save to get around it so I can't test. 

 

BTW, while I'm here. Is there some reason the 'Cute pony tail' weighs more than a pair of heavy armor boots? Equipped weight affects spell casting/weapon swing stamina costs in my game. 

I've changed it myself but just thought I'd mention it. 

[Lupine00]

On 2/2/2020 at 1:57 AM, The Zen said:

Am I missing something here?

Possibly. You need to have enough money or you won't get the dialogs.

All the major priests/priestesses from vanilla should offer you a chance to donate, if you have fatigue.

 

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

 

BTW, while I'm here. Is there some reason the 'Cute pony tail' weighs more than a pair of heavy armor boots? Equipped weight affects spell casting/weapon swing stamina costs in my game. 

It probably came from whatever item Lozeak copied.

DD weights are pretty random.

Of course, maybe Lozeak intended it to be extremely annoying? But it was probably just arbitrary.

 

18 hours ago, Clockwinding said:

Same as some other people here, I'd like to bump the invisible deal problem on V and N piercings. Both modular and old school. The debug MCM option to add/remove those two items also doesn't work

I tried to reproduce this, but couldn't see it in my version. Or rather, I couldn't see any obvious cause in the scripts or translation files, but I didn't get the deals set up properly because the original report didn't way what deal component was causing the problem.

 

Also, piercings are removable via MCM for me. At least they were when I tested it.

The full set add is a little more fragile. It probably fails on slow machines.

 

 

I'll look into this soonish, but last thing I was fixing the inability to exclude NPCs after you've hired them. I can't remember what state I left that in.

Turns out to be a tricky issue because DF doesn't remove followers from its faction after they've been dropped.

I have a fix plan, don't recall if I finished the typing.

 

Top tip: if you wish to exclude a follower, DO NOT recruit them until after you've excluded them.

Should be fine in 2.11 when I release it.

 

 

Also, somebody said that the bundled whore armors were CBBE (or I misread it). They aren't, they are UUNP. I wasted a load of time setting up the wrong half of the FOMOD.

Should have checked. 

 

FOMOD version will have CBBE whore armors in it as well as UUNP.

Front page lies about this, because I believed they were already CBBE.

 

I've been a bit slow making the FOMOD, because it's boring.

[Lupine00]

On 2/3/2020 at 6:52 AM, gilliebillie said:

is the follower selection for which you get sent to after Simpel Slavery random? I never get sent to custom followers.

You can pick the follower used as DF master if enslaved via SS, but you can only pick one.

It doesn't track a list of possible choices.

[Lupine00]

23 hours ago, stobor said:

It can also get stuck if for some reason your follower isn't close enough to the Jarl to do his part of the scene.  I've had that happen once or twice, and had to coax the follower closer.

Out of range followers are likely caused by things like NFF sending your follower off to eat lunch.

NFF thinks it knows best. I advise you turn follower sandboxing off if you use NFF with DFC.

Also with other mods, don't set the follow distance too large. It just makes DFC do strange stuff.

 

In practice, the Jarl scene is typical vintage DF. It works in a narrow set of circumstances, but lacks the fragile and tedious work that would have been required to add markers and more sophisticated choreography to the whole affair. I doubt I will ever address that, as for me, the whole business with the stretchy pet-suit makes it bad to look at. I can't possibly justify the effort of customizing this in detail for each palace for an event most players will see once and avoid thereafter.

 

Maybe the DD filter can do pet-suits now? I'm not banking on it. (Or is that barking? Bark! Bark!)

 

Jarl faction bugs are something I might be able to resolve without making it even more fragile than it already is.

 

 

  

On 2/1/2020 at 9:41 AM, Shion11 said:

ok, after poking this mod, it seems like the classic deals are uneffected, almost all of the modular deals are uneffected except vaginal piercings and occasionally the debt counter seems to freeze at followers 2.10. the piercings bug seems to be from 2.08 to current and causes the dialogue to dismiss followers to dissapear. i had this happen after i uninstalled 2.10 and reinstalled 2.08

 

the problem if freezing debt doesn't seem to effect 2.09 but i'll test that later.

the screenshots that show all deals in use are 2.09(dunno if i posted the 2.08 screenshots but it's identical.)

the 2nd screenshots show the bugs and apperently the debt does freeze after 2.08

 

Edit 1: forgot to mention the days remaining is bugged last time i tried it on 2.10

edit 2: still have problems dismissing followers in 2.10, just saw the notes on the 2.10 update closely right now.adding proof with 2.09 and 2.10 not fixing dialogue bug.

Edit 3; forgot to mention that EFF worked well with prior versions and didn't show any conflicts, infact it prevents EFF from dismissing a fillower too.(2.08-.10 versions) going to wait for a fixed version ti reinstall.

These are either "just you" (as I don't see them), or related to a timer re-init bug, or a new-game/old-game bug.

 

There is a common pattern of bug (for me) where I set some timer in REAL time since game start, but don't recalculate it on load.

However, I don't think stuff like days remaining have that issue because they use GAME time.

In practice, I've added one new timer to DF; it has nothing to do with debt; and it follows the exact same pattern as the old timers.

 

If you have massive cash totals your game will break. Those big numbers are crazy. Are you saying DF created those? I doubt you can trust debt calculations to work with debt values like that set. Discount percentage is supposed to be capped at 90 too. IIRC. So that looks broken too.

 

Other things like days remaining etc. seem fine for me.

 

This could be because my main test game is an upgrade from 2.07, not fresh. Maybe?

 

Are others seeing these issues reliably?

I don't think I'm seeing anything like this in my main playthrough, which has 2.10 updated from 2.09, created with 2.09

[stobor]

44 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

In practice, the Jarl scene is typical vintage DF. It works in a narrow set of circumstances, but lacks the fragile and tedious work that would have been required to add markers and more sophisticated choreography to the whole affair. I doubt I will ever address that, as for me, the whole business with the stretchy pet-suit makes it bad to look at. I can't possibly justify the effort of customizing this in detail for each palace for an event most players will see once and avoid thereafter.

Agree on all points.  It's not worth that kind of effort, and generally hasn't been that fragile.

 

46 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Maybe the DD filter can do pet-suits now? I'm not banking on it. (Or is that barking? Bark! Bark!)

Actually, I think it can.  Not that I've ever seen it tried in-game.

 

[UnEvenSteven]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Maybe the DD filter can do pet-suits now? I'm not banking on it. (Or is that barking? Bark! Bark!)

 

Officially no, you'd need one of DeWired's patches to get the bound anim filter working correctly with DD 4.3a.

[Corsayr]

So now that we have a few mods outside of DF using willpower, we could really use some more things being impacted by it.

 

Chance for a random deal to be applied without your needing or consenting to it? Maybe?

Or certain types of followers forcing themselves into your service if you have no follower? 

 

I spend a great deal of time with almost no willpower these days, and it doesn't seem to negatively impact me that much. ?

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, Corsayr said:

Chance for a random deal to be applied without your needing or consenting to it? Maybe?

Or certain types of followers forcing themselves into your service if you have no follower? 

There is a certain amount of forced deal making required on low willpower already. If your willpower is low, you will not be allowed to pay debt directly and must take deals instead.

I think this probably goes far enough in pushing players into deals as it is. Perhaps some would like that willpower threshold higher, but there are so many ways to lose willpower now... SLS + furniture is quite bad for your willpower (probably far too aggressive by default).

 

In the latter case, for practical reasons the existing forced follower mechanic lets you choose the follower.

Without adding a mechanic to have a list of preferred DFCs, forcing followers would be risky.

Some people would probably not like a forced follower either, though there is a mechanic for it, it require a low willpower. 2 or lower IIRC.

 

I don't think DFC really has the dialogues or mechanics to be a great forced follower mod generally.

The experience you'd want from that would be different somehow.

It would begin from a position of follower strength and control, rather than the DF position, which is more about gradual self-enslavement.

 

Rather than a follower, some kind of "boss" mechanic would also be interesting, but I don't think it's in scope for DFC.

Whether the boss is a pimp, or an innkeeper, or some kind of static quest-giver like Pike from Slaverun ... or the Master from CD, or something a bit different, it's still different from the idea of giving the feeling that the follower gets to make more decisions as your willpower deteriorates.

 

Either way, none of those things are on my immediate to do list, which is

1) DFC 2.11 with a few more bug fixes and a FOMOD;

2) SLAX fixes and updates;

3) new features for SLD.

 

After that lot is done, then my DFC list is:

 

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, Zagzaguel said:

I just checked your Roadmap

 

Deals

  Hide contents

Isnt that basically whore armor?

 

No. It's much milder, and it serves a different purpose. The reasoning behind this is discussed in more detail if you search backwards a few pages.

 

New games

  Hide contents

Id do the challenges as something optional, not a game. Games are less consensual and those challenges are more like one friend asks another friend to do something stupid. Perhaps I just have the dialouge laid out wrong

They are optional. You can refuse the challenge and accept that this bores the follower.

Or you can just disable that feature in the MCM if you never want it.

 

 

Almost all of the games are designed with a clear intent in mind. They aren't just easy to do (some are hard and time consuming to make) but they interact with other mechanics to impair your earning potential in different ways.

 

The deals primarily satisfy me  I use those mods and I want those things to work like that. I know what I want from MME, and if you are familiar with how it works you'll get that stopping being milked and pumped with lactacid is a lot better than continuing it. You really, really want to stop that happening as fast as possible. The consequences definitely are hard to shed, but that's the point really. They can - eventually - be shed, with expensive breast reduction potions and cold-turkey milking refusal. I also use Milk Addict, but let's not get into that... From the follower's point of view, it's a win win. They get valuable milks, and you become increasingly dependent on them.

 

This has the effect of making willpower more precious because the ability to say "No!" to a deal is under-valued right now. Most times it makes more sense to say yes to anything because saying no also costs money, and you are probably taking deals because you want money. If you can say no to the MME deal, that's a huge advantage. In that case you would probably be prepared to take the cash hit. Or you could not. Up to you...

 

The spanking deal is quite harsh too, because a spanky follower won't let you keep much willpower for long.

 

Don't get too hung up on the challenges being called "games". They are what they are. You would get one (offered) instead of a game starting (same timer) and it would reduce boredom the same way (if you accept the challenge). 

 

The follower wouldn't be randomly adding items to a slave PC. Only to a slave PC who has committed serious rule breaches. Right now there is little consequence, but also few ways to break the rules.

[slicksly]

Spoiler

 

ability for the follower to set (radiant) quest objectives for looting opportunities;

(radiant) quests to find devious devices that you can wear to please the follower;

 

I very much like the sound of these, as it'd add a purpose to adventuring which typically is lacking currently (aside from "get gold, get gear, get levels"), while also hopefully being varied enough for high replayability.

 

It could also be tied in to the challenges/games, with worn sets of devices (typically those not preventing weapon usage or impeding travel too harshly) being forced or encouraged for the duration of the treasure hunt, with release from devices upon clearing the quest. I'm thinking wether devices would be added / encouraged for a treasure hunt could either be an optional quest criteria for increased reward (or lessened punishment), or with a configurable random chance in MCM?

[HexBolt8]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

This has the effect of making willpower more precious because the ability to say "No!" to a deal is under-valued right now.

This is a great evolution for willpower, basically a currency for avoiding unwanted deals.  And if deals or games keep being offered from time to time (even at high willpower) that puts downward pressure on willpower if you have to keep resisting.

[Corsayr]

Has anyone tried running DF with M.C.G. ?

 

How do they work together? What order should they load in?  

[aspirine2]

my pc lost the devices locked on her ..and idea to get them back from the follower ....i can't figure which mcm option will get them back ??

[aspirine2]

48 minutes ago, Zagzaguel said:

In the debug menu you should be able to use the "Fit (...)" command to equip things on you. You could also use the command line "Do you have any devices" in the follower dialouge tree 

 

 

 

is the fit command only apply when you got a device already and it doesn't fit ...also the Do you have any devices command doesn't appear after enslavement ..only before it ...!?