Devious Followers - Continued

[KLongad Sirtup]

@Balgin Thanks for answering that. I won't be able to identify any specific mods as it is before my time. I only started using script extensions when SKSE was released, thus I don't know about Spike based modes.

[cailic]

Hello.  I'm just coming back from a two month or so vacation in the Common Wealth.  Finally got sick of the headaches... and it wasn't the radiation.

 

My idea for DF would have to be a separate, add-on.  I always tried to imagine the PC as already having some debt to pay the follower.  Such as an inherited debt.

- families bodyguard got shafted by PC's parents.

- Argonian or Khajiit character was being helped by PC's family.  Things didn't go well, so now he is looking for compensation. 

- Blackmailing the PC for what they can prove about her past and her families past. 

- PC's house has a lean on it.  PC has to pay it off.

- PC's family borrowed large sum of money.  Now they are dead.  She inherits the debt.

Basically, some deep rooted sense of obligation that would warrant the PC to willfully submit to being an indentured servant. 

 

But this would have to a separate mod, since, as far as I know, unique characters would have to made for different scenarios.  Unless, I guess, if you could create the quests then assign them to random NPC's.

 

 

[HexBolt8]

21 minutes ago, cailic said:

My idea for DF would have to be a separate, add-on.  I always tried to imagine the PC as already having some debt to pay the follower.  Such as an inherited debt.

I'm curious, what would be the content of the separate quest mod?  I ask because I sometimes do something similar.  If I choose to start a game with a DF, I make up a reason.  Perhaps the DF helped the PC fight off a bandit attack, so the PC agrees to hire the DF.  Or, the PC might owe the DF money (your idea about initial debt) for various reasons, such as having been bought and freed from slavery.  For the starting debt I just manually add it with the console. 

 

So far, that's been enough for me, but after reading your comment I wonder if there's something else I've missed out on doing to make the relationship between PC and DF more interesting.  What would a separate mod add?  Story-based dialog?  Certain quest objectives?  I've simply added debt and let paying that off be my objective.

[cailic]

8 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

I'm curious, what would be the content of the separate quest mod?  I ask because I sometimes do something similar.  If I choose to start a game with a DF, I make up a reason.  Perhaps the DF helped the PC fight off a bandit attack, so the PC agrees to hire the DF.  Or, the PC might owe the DF money (your idea about initial debt) for various reasons, such as having been bought and freed from slavery.  For the starting debt I just manually add it with the console. 

 

So far, that's been enough for me, but after reading your comment I wonder if there's something else I've missed out on doing to make the relationship between PC and DF more interesting.  What would a separate mod add?  Story-based dialog?  Certain quest objectives?  I've simply added debt and let paying that off be my objective.

Ok, I overslept waaaay to much.  I need to let more caffeine soak in before I get back to you.  I've had to use spell check on nearly every other word so far today.  Give me couple hours to the synopsis (synopsises?  whatever. Those brain thingies) firing again. 

[cailic]

4 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

So far, that's been enough for me, but after reading your comment I wonder if there's something else I've missed out on doing to make the relationship between PC and DF more interesting.  What would a separate mod add?  Story-based dialog?  Certain quest objectives?  I've simply added debt and let paying that off be my objective.

Ok.  You've not missed out on anything.  I was just giving my idea of how to further develop this mod.  One way would be to create unique NPC's that the PC would meat in the world.  Perhaps at a tavern.  They discover who you are and confront you with what ever scenario.  You could even make it so NPC travels so you never know when or where you might run into them.  Several scenarios could be made and a random one applied to the NPC.  Depending on the scenario in play, the repercussions of not agreeing to their terms could be imprisonment of public ridicule.  Public ridicule could cause shop keepers not wish to do business with you or have inflated prices.  In the case of player homes, you could loose ownership.

There could be several NPC's each with a different scenario.  You could choose how many, via MCM, are in the world. 

This option would have to be a separate mod since it would add so much to DF.  It doesn't really fit into DF's framework.

 

If you simplify what I said above, you could possibly make quests and assign them to random NPC's that may threaten you, but have no actual consequences.   Still adds to the immersion, but shouldn't add to much to the mod (I think). 

 

But many different scenarios could be thought up as to why the PC agrees to the terms of DF.  I only named a few I came up with as I wrote this.  I usually envision some kind of family debt that the PC has no control over but feels compelled to  rectify. 

[TheBlackSilhouette]

I like this concept, but, if I might make a request, suggest having options to make specific followers not perform the function of this mod (in scenarios where they are clearly indebted to the player).  Just a thought.

[HexBolt8]

11 minutes ago, TheBlackSilhouette said:

I like this concept, but, if I might make a request, suggest having options to make specific followers not perform the function of this mod (in scenarios where they are clearly indebted to the player).

You can do that through the MCM by specifying followers whom you do not want to act as a Devious Follower.

[TheBlackSilhouette]

4 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

You can do that through the MCM by specifying followers whom you do not want to act as a Devious Follower.

...That it does.  Apologies.  Not sure how I missed that, but I am tired.  Thanks for the correction

[HexBolt8]

53 minutes ago, TheBlackSilhouette said:

Not sure how I missed that, but I am tired.

No problem at all.  Just add 200 gold debt to your follower and we'll call it even.  ?

[HexBolt8]

@Lupine00, on the SL Survival discussion you said "...I could add a way to request DF to spank you. DF boredom is reduced substantially. Spanking animation would then play."  It seems better to comment on that here.

 

This is a fun idea, and it's natural behavior for the DF to look for ways to relieve boredom.  An interface to StA obviously makes sense, but if the player has a spanking animation installed then it wouldn't have to be a requirement, you'd just miss out on some things. 

 

I wouldn't limit boredom spanks to requests.  If the DF is bored, making the PC squeal could be just the thing needed.  If your willpower is high you can refuse, but that'll cost a bit of resistance.  DF boredom might also get a bump when you refuse because you're no fun.  Depending on how you look at it, the DF might get more boredom relief when the DF decides it's time for a spanking, since it's more fun making you do something you don't like.  (If you ask for a spanking, you either want one or you're eager to reduce DF boredom.  Either way it's something that you consider beneficial, so that might be a bit less fun for the DF.)

[Ursur1major]

I'm not sure if this is possible, and might have been suggested already and I just missed it.
But our Followers have a tendency of gathering a small fortune over the period they accompany the player, wondering if it might be possible to keep track on the amount of money the followers hoard, and then at certain points have them actually use that money to purchase gear relevant to their class and level.

After all, it is a bit weird that that they don't ever seem to use their money for anything, and that they are completely reliant on the player for good gear.

If this is possible I imagine you could make a list for the different classes or groups of classes the followers belong to, and break it up into tiers depending on level, and so once the accumulated wealth reaches a certain threshold the Follower places an order for one of the items on this list, which is then delivered via Courier.
I suppose this could also cause some amusing interactions during the delivery sort of like:
Player: Huh, I guess I got a free Ebony Cuirass?

Follower: Ah, you got my delivery, that's actually mine, I should almost up my rates for this you know, you're quite lucky I considered increasing our combat prowess this way.

[Corsayr]

27 minutes ago, Zagzaguel said:

Guess most of us are using custom gear from mods so that might be somewhat in the way for that even tho it would be more immersive

I like the idea but Id guess that having the follower chose their own gear would be more annoying than useful for most

To add to this, my followers taste in armor is shit!

 

I will give my follower a full set of tempered Nordic Steel armor (and they are fucking Nord for Christ sake! this should be the dream armor of any Nord ever!!!), then have them carry some stuff for me only to watch them put on some stupid Necromancer robe instead of the armor I made for them... ?‍♀️

 

? Fucking Nords!

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, Zagzaguel said:

Since there was some talk about furniture, perhaps it would be possible to have your follower lock you into one and "go away" for a while (if thats possible) to have some "fun" without having to bother about you

Obvsly this would only be possible with low willpower, making having low willpower somewhat more dangerous (outside of deals) 

To make this work nicely you need a system like PetProject has to drive events that occur while you are in the furniture, otherwise it's just being stuck looking at a Skyrim you can't control, while nothing happens. The PetProject system is nice, but I don't think DF is really set up to support it, and levering it into gameplay could be awkward. The other thing is Zaz dependence.

 

I'd like to have furniture use in some interesting way, but it's a long way off. To put it another way, not on my rather ambitious roadmap. As I tend to get distracted by new and shiny things, and playing Skyrim, I tend to mod rather slowly. It's been frustrating since before Xmas I couldn't get five minutes straight to concentrate without some interruption, and it sort of shows. If I did have any quiet time, I would most likely be tired out, and just play Skyrim.

 

Yesterday, I spent most of the day improving my trees and flora. Woohoo! I'm still not sure about the textures ... Trees HD, Lush Vanilla Trees, or something else?

I've had Trees HD since forever, and it is quite ... HD ... but LVT looks like what SE tried to do, but done right.

[4nk8r]

I'm on the Sexlab Survival train and starting a new playthrough with all the latest versions of everything.  I'm using Nether's Follower Framework with the DF script overwrites, but the Other Mod settings MCM page isn't showing Nether's as being detected.  Should I be concerned?  Is there a way to make it check again or will it not be an issue?  Already tried the Reset option in the MCM.

[Bora]

Hi! I paid my companion in full, pressed the dismiss button, and he left. But the dialogue is still there is a line "dismiss companion." I tried to select "exclude it from the mod" in the mcm menu, but was told that I owed money to the companion. Tell me, is it possible to reset the companion somehow?

[legraf]

I'm continuing to get a CTD when talking to my follower, though there's a new wrinkle, and more detail.

 

Using EFF 4.02, DFc 2.10, MO1.  DF overwrites EFF including the dialogue script, and DF is lower in LO than EFF.  I also have the newest StA, and SLS (set to let StA handle spanks).

 

Every so often, the follower conversation "breaks".  When I try to speak with my follower (Uthgerd the Unbroken), clicking on the follower, the usual EFF wheel comes up.  I choose "talk", and CTD.  Reloading a game near that CTD always crashes again on talking - basically, the follower has entered a state where entering dialogue will absolutely CTD.

 

However, I can make this go away by "cleaning" in EFF's settings menu, then force-recruiting the follower immediately in EFF again (they remain a DF).  This then works for a while, talking to follower is fine, until it breaks again.

 

The new bit of information, possibly relevant: invariably when I use EFF to reset the follower, the very first thing Uthgerd does is run up and spank my character, as if somehow she has a spank stuck in a queue that is causing the broken dialogue, and which gets shaken loose by resetting EFF.  Generally proximity spanks seem to work fine, by the follower and others... though now I'm wondering if they cease when the follower gets into this broken state and I just haven't noticed.

 

[Roggvir]

On 2/16/2020 at 4:00 AM, Lupine00 said:

To make this work nicely you need a system like PetProject has to drive events that occur while you are in the furniture

Speaking of furniture, how about some soft integration with Display Model? ...just something to consider.

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, Roggvir said:

how about some soft integration with Display Model? ...just something to consider.

I have that mod in my LO, and so far, never used it for anything  

 

21 hours ago, legraf said:

Every so often, the follower conversation "breaks".

DF's changes to EFF are fairly small, benign script changes. It's hard to see how the things you see are linked.

 

It's vaguely possible that USLEEP edits - if you do not have it, or have overwritten it - might be related to this.

Just as likely, DF is a casualty of some odd interaction between STA and EFF. Or the whole thing is unrelated in any direct way.

 

I used DF with EFF and STA for months and never had problems. It doesn't mean much though.

 

It sounds like something is overloading your scripting engine, and you're getting the same kind of thing where DD tries to install too many devices at once, and only half go on. Then days later, you add an item, and all the stuck items suddenly get applied. It's basically Papyrus scripts not being rescheduled when they should. Sometimes this leads to a frozen stack, or a complete stack crash.

[Lupine00]

On 2/17/2020 at 1:37 AM, Bora said:

Hi! I paid my companion in full, pressed the dismiss button, and he left. But the dialogue is still there is a line "dismiss companion." I tried to select "exclude it from the mod" in the mcm menu, but was told that I owed money to the companion. Tell me, is it possible to reset the companion somehow?

It sounds a bit like your EFF was overwriting DF in your LO to start with.

Then, you paid the follower and dropped them through EFF? (When you say pressed the button, I can only think you are using EFF).

This removed them as a follower but left them in DF.

DF continued to accrue debt because as far as it was concerned there was a follower.

 

Try the repair follower button in the Debug menu.

 

If the chain of events differed, feel free to provide all the pertinent details that you failed to put in the previous post  

 

I have little chance to help anyone who doesn't even say what framework they are using, and mod-manager, and LO verification help too.

 

You need to release your follower through the dialog option after paying all your debt so that follower is dismissable.

 

You shouldn't be able to release them through the wheel in EFF if your DF is installed properly.

But no promises

 

I made a bit of a rod for my own back by trying to support three different follower frameworks at once.

With my slow computer, I wasn't able to test it as much as I should have, because swapping frameworks takes hours.

There's also the issue of USLEEP, which I assumed *everyone* uses, because without it, your Skyrim is like a bomb waiting to go off... But it seems some people insist on not using it, or install mods riddled with ITMs that overwrite it. This may be causing some problems too.

 

There are bugs I can reproduce and fix, but most of this "I got a CTD using some mod combination and LO you'll never replicate" I can't really fix.

All I can do is go down a different path, make DF followers "standalone" and lock them out of follower frameworks. This will create all different problems.

NFF can "adopt" such followers, but EFF and AFT cannot.

[Bora]

I have AFT installed. Fired him: chose clear the debt for dismissal / the money was withdrawn / went to the root of the dialogue / clicked dismiss-there was a vanilla entry: the companion left you, he says vanilla dialogue. After the dismissal, I activated the dialogue-there were records of the dialogue: "exchange things" and "Dismiss a companion". When I click on "dismiss companion", it tells me the dialogue from the mod. In the MCM menu, I clicked "restore" and "reset" - it says everything works. General status-everything works. Checked the save - no errors. I understand that everything can't be helped. I just reported my problem. I just wanted to find out if there is a code to reset the companion completely.
Thank you for trying to help

[Corsayr]

21 minutes ago, Bora said:

code to reset the companion completely

if nothing you do can get the follower to leave, you can try pausing the mod I think the pause button is on the last tab. 

 

if they still won't dismiss, there is something else gumming up the works... I hear there is a group of people in Skyrim that can "take care" of followers that don't know when they have worn out their welcome... ?

[Bora]

5 hours ago, Corsayr said:

if nothing you do can get the follower to leave, you can try pausing the mod I think the pause button is on the last tab. 

 

if they still won't dismiss, there is something else gumming up the works... I hear there is a group of people in Skyrim that can "take care" of followers that don't know when they have worn out their welcome... ?

I'll kill all! "There can be only one!" My name Connor MacLeod, I - Highlander! ))

[legraf]

20 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It sounds like something is overloading your scripting engine, and you're getting the same kind of thing where DD tries to install too many devices at once, and only half go on. Then days later, you add an item, and all the stuck items suddenly get applied. It's basically Papyrus scripts not being rescheduled when they should. Sometimes this leads to a frozen stack, or a complete stack crash.

Thanks, yes, it's plausible.  The crash can occur during extremely low-load times, but the trigger that causes the break in the first place could be any time, I have no way to spot it, yet.  I'll keep searching, thanks.  But at least I have a workaround that seems functional: cleaning EFF.

[Lupine00]

23 hours ago, Bora said:

I have AFT installed. Fired him: chose clear the debt for dismissal / the money was withdrawn / went to the root of the dialogue / clicked dismiss-there was a vanilla entry: the companion left you, he says vanilla dialogue. After the dismissal, I activated the dialogue-there were records of the dialogue: "exchange things" and "Dismiss a companion". When I click on "dismiss companion", it tells me the dialogue from the mod. In the MCM menu, I clicked "restore" and "reset" - it says everything works. General status-everything works. Checked the save - no errors. I understand that everything can't be helped. I just reported my problem. I just wanted to find out if there is a code to reset the companion completely.
Thank you for trying to help

I wrote functionality to "reset" a follower, but this code assumes the follower (if found) should be following, not dismissed.

That is is what the repair button - introduced recently - will do for you - it attempts to make it so that the follower is properly following in both the follower framework and in DF.

If it finds the follower is only following in one of those, it will fix the other. It also tries to repair some factions.

 

I didn't create a "dismiss follower" button, because if a follower is properly hired, they should be properly dismissable - unless your install is wrong.

 

For example, if you have NFF, and when you look in other mods, it says NOT PRESENT for NFF, your install is broken. It does matter. If this doesn't match your intent, you will have issues, especially if you hire more than one follower.

 

A correctly functioning framework install should show your current follower count in the other mods section of the MCM instead of NOT PRESENT. This may be 0 though, that is fine - assuming you really don't have any followers  

[mangalo]

I noticed a strange behavior when entering the slavery path through Simple Slavery.  Basically, three items are always put on the character (collar, mittens and boots), but then, depending on the "deals", others items are given.  The problem is that mittens make it impossible to wear them (for example, a slut armor).