Devious Followers - Continued

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Zagzaguel said:

Altough I did realize that I was able to say no to a deal and the follower just proposed a new one until I accept. Is that intended? It kind of goes against of what youre saying since I was able to avoid a specific deal anyway

That would be a bug. I didn't see it myself. On low willpower you propose a deal and you are given one, with no chance to say no. That is how it should behave.

 

38 minutes ago, aspirine2 said:

is the fit command only apply when you got a device already and it doesn't fit ...also the Do you have any devices command doesn't appear after enslavement ..only before it ...!?

The "fit" buttons in the Debug menu are - mainly - for the case where you need to wear an item or else be punished with debt, but you cannot equip the item because some other DD is blocking you putting it on.

 

e.g. You are in heavy bondage, and your follower makes a deal to wear a piercing, but DD says you cannot fit the piercing because you are in an armbinder and you can't reach.

In such cases, the follower should fit the item for you, but DF has never worked that way, and it would create some other problems.

 

 

If you are simply missing an item, you can buy one off the follower through dialog, in game.

That is the legitimate "in character" way to resolve an item that is missing for some reason.

 

 

Another use of the "fit" option is when you use Deal Enslavement via SS, and it totally fails to give you the required items you should wear. In that case it seems unfair that you should have to purchase them, and you have limited time to fit them before you get in trouble.

 

Obviously, it should just work better than it does, but for now, the Debug menu feature allows you to resolve almost all annoying device issues quickly.

Trying to fix the DD fitting is ... tricky where multiple devices are involved ... because often DD fails to fit items if you try to fit more than one at a time.

The items seem to get "stuck" behind some mutex, and so, later removing a device, or fitting another manually, can unstick them, and they magically get fitted - which can be disconcerting, as it may be hours later and it seems like a device came from nowhere.

 

The Debug option to fit a full set is a kind of "panic" button for when you really want to stop the follower fining you like crazy, and then you can remove any wrong items afterwards. Alas, it can fail, and it wasn't entirely reliable for me either, even with big delays in it. When DCL sets a full set, I think it takes about two minutes! Almost all of which will be delays.  I can't help but think there is something wrong with how that stuff is coded in DD, but when I offered to help with DD I was told to go away, so ... it's somebody else's problem. Mostly. Except when it ends up being mine.

[legraf]

I'm using EFF 4.0.2 with DFc 2.10, using MO1.  DF overwrites EFF including the dialogue script, and DF is lower in LO than EFF.

 

I'm getting a very consistent CTD when engaging in dialogue with my follower (Uthgerd the Unbroken).  I click on the follower, the usual EFF wheel comes up, I choose "talk", and CTD, every time.

 

I was able to make this go away by "cleaning" EFF (from its settngs menu) and using EFF to force-recruit them again, (they remained a DF throughout) and it worked fine until I reloaded the game.

[Lupine00]

For 2.11 I am going to add something so you can gain a forced follower if willpower drops below 5.0 or so, and you have no (devious) followers.

This will be different to the forced DF with debt that already occurs at 2 or lower will if you're collared, in that it will be sort-of avoidable somehow.

 

I want more risk for low willpower, but not so you just get stuck with a follower and that's it.

 

I'm thinking a generic kind of person, lurking in consistent locations.

Don't go there and you won't get the follower.

Go there and get too close and they'll be all over you.

 

Should the "danger location" be:

• jarl palaces
• inside inns
• outside inns
• general goods stores
• somewhere else???

 

The followers will be male by default and then will maybe add some in-game thing to swap them for a female (different person) in a later release.

 

I'm thinking now of some kind of "over protective" helper, who immediately puts you in gold control, and a minimum contract of a week, and gives you credit a couple of days worth of contract value credit, if no interest or additional expenses. So it's like a free follower! For the first two days, and then... 

 

Then in some other location a female who will "save" you from the over protective male, and you can swap her in via dialog. (As a later feature).

 

This would really only kick in for mods that suck willpower without a DF, though DF will itself suck willpower if you suffer traumas while bound.

[DeWired]

30 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

For 2.11 I am going to add something so you can gain a forced follower if willpower drops below 5.0 or so, and you have no (devious) followers.

This will be different to the forced DF with debt that already occurs at 2 or lower will if you're collared, in that it will be sort-of avoidable somehow.

 

I want more risk for low willpower, but not so you just get stuck with a follower and that's it.

 

I'm thinking a generic kind of person, lurking in consistent locations.

Don't go there and you won't get the follower.

Go there and get too close and they'll be all over you.

 

Should the "danger location" be:

• jarl palaces
• inside inns
• outside inns
• general goods stores
• somewhere else???

 

The followers will be male by default and then will maybe add some in-game thing to swap them for a female (different person) in a later release.

 

I'm thinking now of some kind of "over protective" helper, who immediately puts you in gold control, and a minimum contract of a week, and gives you credit a couple of days worth of contract value credit, if no interest or additional expenses. So it's like a free follower! For the first two days, and then... 

 

Then in some other location a female who will "save" you from the over protective male, and you can swap her in via dialog. (As a later feature).

 

This would really only kick in for mods that suck willpower without a DF, though DF will itself suck willpower if you suffer traumas while bound.

I vote for general goods store - other places are either overused or unsuitable for lurking. So, this person can be a hunter/wanderer, who makes a living actually providing wares for general goods stores.

[legraf]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Should the "danger location" be:

I like lurking outside, either by inns or general goods stores (or wandering back and forth).  For an interior I'd probably recommend general goods stores as well, just because some inn interiors are already crowded.

 

I like the idea!  A "helping" hand, concerned about your health and state, joining as a protector at bargain rates, initially.  And I didn't even know about the below-2-when-collared forced DF, somehow I've never noticed.

[slicksly]

Spoiler

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

For 2.11 I am going to add something so you can gain a forced follower if willpower drops below 5.0 or so, and you have no (devious) followers.

This will be different to the forced DF with debt that already occurs at 2 or lower will if you're collared, in that it will be sort-of avoidable somehow.

 

I want more risk for low willpower, but not so you just get stuck with a follower and that's it.

 

I'm thinking a generic kind of person, lurking in consistent locations.

Don't go there and you won't get the follower.

Go there and get too close and they'll be all over you.

 

Should the "danger location" be:

• jarl palaces
• inside inns
• outside inns
• general goods stores
• somewhere else???

 

The followers will be male by default and then will maybe add some in-game thing to swap them for a female (different person) in a later release.

 

I'm thinking now of some kind of "over protective" helper, who immediately puts you in gold control, and a minimum contract of a week, and gives you credit a couple of days worth of contract value credit, if no interest or additional expenses. So it's like a free follower! For the first two days, and then... 

 

Then in some other location a female who will "save" you from the over protective male, and you can swap her in via dialog. (As a later feature).

 

This would really only kick in for mods that suck willpower without a DF, though DF will itself suck willpower if you suffer traumas while bound.

If this is meant as a intended benevolent intervention by the follower, perhaps the local temple would be a better source. If it instead is the local authority trying to get you back to the straight and narrow after noticing your increased deviancy, jails could be more appropriate. If it instead is meant as a scummy person taking advantage of the player character who's already in a vulnerable position, then I suppose a chance to be collared and force-followed during sleep in a non-home might be the trigger.

[valcon767]

General Goods Store (inside or outside) or outside an Inn.

 

 

ohh idea  walled cities = inside General Goods Store (Whiterun, Markarth, Solitude, Windhelm, and RIften)

non waled cities = outside General Goods Store (Falkreath, Morthal, Dawnstar, Winterhold)

towns = outside Inns (Riverwood, Shor's Stone Rorikstead, Raven Rock, Dragon Bridge, Karthwasten, Ivarstead)

 

 

just my 2 cents worth

 

 

[Polonium]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Spoiler

For 2.11 I am going to add something so you can gain a forced follower if willpower drops below 5.0 or so, and you have no (devious) followers.

This will be different to the forced DF with debt that already occurs at 2 or lower will if you're collared, in that it will be sort-of avoidable somehow.

 

I want more risk for low willpower, but not so you just get stuck with a follower and that's it.

 

I'm thinking a generic kind of person, lurking in consistent locations.

Don't go there and you won't get the follower.

Go there and get too close and they'll be all over you.

 

Should the "danger location" be:

• jarl palaces
• inside inns
• outside inns
• general goods stores
• somewhere else???

 

The followers will be male by default and then will maybe add some in-game thing to swap them for a female (different person) in a later release.

 

I'm thinking now of some kind of "over protective" helper, who immediately puts you in gold control, and a minimum contract of a week, and gives you credit a couple of days worth of contract value credit, if no interest or additional expenses. So it's like a free follower! For the first two days, and then... 

 

Then in some other location a female who will "save" you from the over protective male, and you can swap her in via dialog. (As a later feature).

 

This would really only kick in for mods that suck willpower without a DF, though DF will itself suck willpower if you suffer traumas while bound.

 

If you are taking suggestions, how about a dominant NPC that recognizes that you are clearly in need of guidance, which they generously give. The Jarl's Palace or inside Inns would be a good place for these kind of NPCs.

[Darkwing241]

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Should the "danger location" be:

• jarl palaces
• inside inns
• outside inns
• general goods stores
• somewhere else???

 

The followers will be male by default and then will maybe add some in-game thing to swap them for a female (different person) in a later release.

 

I'm thinking now of some kind of "over protective" helper, who immediately puts you in gold control, and a minimum contract of a week, and gives you credit a couple of days worth of contract value credit, if no interest or additional expenses. So it's like a free follower! For the first two days, and then... 

 

Then in some other location a female who will "save" you from the over protective male, and you can swap her in via dialog. (As a later feature).

 

This would really only kick in for mods that suck willpower without a DF, though DF will itself suck willpower if you suffer traumas while bound.

All seems reasonable to me! I'm a f/f kind of person so I'm obviously not in love with the all male starting out, but I actually do like "immersive options menu" like features.  The idea of immersively swapping followers is a good one, it also has some great "gameplay" if you follow through with adding personality types to followers.  RPG's are all about managing stats after all.  Maybe swapping followers semi-randomly rerolls some of your deals? Letting you swap away from something undesirable at a cost?

 

As for "Danger Places"

 

I think I would lean towards 

-Blacksmith/weapon shops "hey let me show you how to use a sword"

-Front gate areas "hey where are you headed? It's dangerous outside the city, I'll come with you"

 

It's hard to explain why but I don't like jarl's houses and inns for this feature. It feels repetitive? I feel like it would conflict with the otherwise important stuff going on in jarl's houses and inns.  Inns in particular I feel like would be a conflict nightmare.

 

I also want to repitch the idea of having a literal in game "contract" item.  Like a book items that the DF can give to the PC that continually updates with a list of rules and deals and stuff.  That way after you new follower browbeats you into taking them on they can just say "great thanks for agreeing to take me on, here are the details of our agreement"

[The Zen]

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

 

 

The followers will be male by default and then will maybe add some in-game thing to swap them for a female (different person) in a later release.

 

I'm thinking now of some kind of "over protective" helper, who immediately puts you in gold control, and a minimum contract of a week, and gives you credit a couple of days worth of contract value credit, if no interest or additional expenses. So it's like a free follower! For the first two days, and then... 

 

Then in some other location a female who will "save" you from the over protective male, and you can swap her in via dialog. (As a later feature).

 

This would really only kick in for mods that suck willpower without a DF, though DF will itself suck willpower if you suffer traumas while bound.

Like the idea, strongly dislike the male gender of the follower. I would prefer to wait in order to have a choice instead of getting it at a later time.

[DonQuiWho]

uptick for 'General Goods Stores'

 

Inside, outside, or on the roof. 

 

Belethor's sister, or Lucan's estranged wife

[HexBolt8]

Blacksmith shop might be worth consideration.   If you're looking at weapons and that down on your luck (low willpower), you might simply need someone to watch over you and show you how to use one properly.  Or better yet, you carry the heavy stuff and watch the expert at work. 

1 hour ago, donkeywho said:

Belethor's sister

Technically, he did say "If I had a sister I'd sell her in a second."  Personally, I like to think he did sell her.  Business is business.

[legraf]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

Technically, he did say "If I had a sister I'd sell her in a second."  Personally, I like to think he did sell her.  Business is business.

Plus, there's the nicely done past mod-lore of SL Stories which already explores Belethor's sister.  Though I suppose he could have had two.

[Lupine00]

11 minutes ago, Zagzaguel said:

Wouldnt a lurker (/stalker) prefer crowded places tho? 

As long as its only subtle actions no1 would realize one is even there

They aren't an attacker... I imagine dialog a bit like this.

 

"Excuse me Miss, I couldn't help notice that you seem to be in need of help."

> "No. I'm fine thanks" (only available if willpower >= 6)

>> "Ah. My mistake. I'll leave you in peace then."

> "Sorry... Just a little bad luck lately." 

>> "People take advantage of a woman on her own. You need somebody to look after you."

>>> "Uh, please don't trouble yourself."

>>>> "Oh, it's no trouble at all. I insist on helping, just for a week or two, until you're back on your feet."

>>>>> "That's very ... kind ... of you."

 

I can just imagine this helpful soul producing a radiant quest that takes you to Riften for a little ceremony that coincidentally gives him total legal control over you...

But that would be some other mod  

[Lupine00]

15 minutes ago, Zagzaguel said:

Are you hinting at something?

Wishing mainly... But doesn't quite fit the DF ethos. Might work as a DF integration for PetProject, or for the entirely theoretical Boss Follower mod.

[Marauderrr]

I like where this is headed...also like the idea of getting passed around from follower to follower with different random deals...I would like a toggle for male/female follower though.

 

Thank you for your continued work on this.

[Shion11]

not to beat a dead horse, but it seems it doesn't matter what deal has vaginal piercings, it goes in use, but doesn't show a popup message or name it in the modular deals

 

 

 

2. Again, once vaginal piercings is messed with, it stays stuck and doesn't matter if i fully reset or buy out and get that deal again. current version.

 

Going to add a addition to this and say that reseting in the mcm with a test follower freezes the debt at the last total

[Corsayr]

There was some talk in the SLS thread about taxes, but I was thinking instead of a bland tax system why not Devious Housecarls? 

 

If you own a property and a housecarl is staying there, they expect a salary. Every-time you visit that house they approach you to get paid. If you don't have the money, it's time for some deals. ?

 

if you leave your house with no housecarl attending it for too long to avoid having to pay a housecarl... (Silly idea in spoiler)

Spoiler

an NPC named Carl moves in and starts charging you. Also he randomly steals things from your storage containers in the house. ?

 

[emes]

Just happened across Lupine00's post in the Dwarven Devious Cuirass thread about using it for DF. Got to say, from the images, it's an interesting idea. I imagine it'd end up being a big side project to do, though.

 

I couldn't help but think about what it could include, though.

 

General idea looks like the girl's arms and legs are, uh, kept safely out of the way while the Dwemer limbs do the actual work. Seems like this would be a great way to boost her melee combat abilities. And, of course the heavy armor would help ensure her safety. I could see why her follower would insist on it, since it could make a frail woman far more viable in combat.

 

The only possible downside I could see is that, well, she'd be a bit compromised if the limbs stopped following her directions. Like, say, if her follower could override her and just make her do whatever he wanted. It'd probably be hard to say no to sex if your arms and legs moved all on their own.

 

Being able to switch the front part to the open one outside of combat would certainly be handy for easy access...?

 

[KLongad Sirtup]

Another option would be to utilise the API of Dwarven Augmentation to alter the appearance and/or augment the PC.

[Balgin]

2 minutes ago, KLongad Sirtup said:

Another option would be to utilise the API of Dwarven Augmentation to alter the appearance and/or augment the PC.

That's a great idea but it means you need to keep fiddling with mcm menus. Severing the limb causes the dwemer prosthetic one to be invisible as well (because it's treated as armour). If someone were to concert them to be actual prosthetics  for the Amputation pack mod so that you could attach the dwemer body parts but then removing them would result in limb loss and then putting the dwemer arms and legs back on again would make them functional replacements.

 

It would probably take a lot of work. As it currently stands mentally remembering to go into the mcm for the amputation framework to remove  alimb after taking off a dwemer limb would probably be too much bother and spoil immersion.

[KLongad Sirtup]

@Balgin There's an API for Amputation Framework Tweaked and also for Dwemer Augmentation. For Dwemer Augmentation's API information read the modder's section. The API calls allow for the functions in the MCM to be called without needing to use MCM.

 

The API's are based on Mod Events being sent to the appropriate modification.

[Balgin]

7 minutes ago, KLongad Sirtup said:

@Balgin There's an API for Amputation Framework Tweaked and also for Dwemer Augmentation. For Dwemer Augmentation's API information read the modder's section. The API calls allow for the functions in the MCM to be called without needing to use MCM.

 

The API's are based on Mod Events being sent to the appropriate modification.

Yeah, my bad. I was thinking of the old amputator framework. The new mod needs another mod as well so that's probably two slots on the load order. I really need to tidy up my load order. Do any current mods still use Spike? I'm going to have a fun time trying to work out which old mod required it.

[KLongad Sirtup]

@Balgin First of all what is Spike please?

[Balgin]

2 hours ago, KLongad Sirtup said:

@Balgin First of all what is Spike please?

Basically Spike was a proto SKSE. It performed a basic script extension function (I think). A handful of old mods I might still use used it.