Devious Followers - Continued

[TheArchlich]

Hey, so after I dismissed my first followers all future followers I recruit don't have the dialogue to remove DD, or the key game.

Help?

 

Edit: Reloading the cell after hiring, fixes this bug.

Edited November 6, 2021 by TheArchlich

[belegost]

On 6/24/2021 at 6:33 AM, valeforgery said:

I'm using the SE version, but I think this will apply to the LE version as well.

 

Stenvar doesn't get recruited or do anything at all when trying to hire him through dialogue, and I think the problem may be with his response dialogue. His reply - [INFO:D800E051] ('My blade is sharp and I thirst for battle. Onward!' in GRUP Topic Children of HirelingQuestTopic1 "Consider yourself hired. [<global=hirelinggold>]" [DIAL:000BCC84]) - has one script attached, the one with the HirelingRecognizeStenvar property. Other hirelings have one script with a HirelingRecognize[InsertNameHere] property, and they also have their own script fragment with an OnEnd flag. I've seen other comments mentioning problems with Stenvar's recruitment in the thread, so hopefully this can be helpful for troubleshooting.

 

I am using SE version as well, but I'm posting here since this appears to be main topic for bug reports and feedback, especially since I did a search and a lot of people here mentioned problems with Stenvar. Basically I have the same issue as people mentioned, he can't be hired as opposed to other hirelings (I checked them all). I am using NFF, but he can't be forced to become a follower even when using the "force follower" option.

Edited November 8, 2021 by belegost

[eurgetes]

On 11/5/2021 at 10:15 AM, Herowynne said:

 

Yes, that is the whore deal that I was describing. I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that was the deal that the original poster @eurgetes was asking about.

 

I suppose that I should have verified that assumption first before composing a big wall of text. ?‍♀️ Oops!

 

You were quite correct.  In point of fact I think I was just initially having a run of "bad rolls" because now the event is happening much more frequently.

 

Of course, that means I'm running into the known problem where DFC starts a new event while the last event is still underway much more often too, but I knew that could happen.

[serana addicted loser]

Hey, im having trouble getting Serana to work with this mod. She doesnt try to become devious naturally. So, i went to the general tab in the MCM and tried to make her devious but it says "NPC CANNOT FOLLOW" so that doesnt work either. Then i went to the debug menu and turned on the option to give every NPC the dialogue option to become devious, but that didnt work at all, no NPC's gained that dialogue. No clue what to do but would love Serana to be devious. i know the mod works because it loads and ive had other devious followers

[CaptainJ03]

2 hours ago, serana addicted loser said:

Hey, im having trouble getting Serana to work with this mod.

Really? You'd be the first where it works. This mod, like every other, doesn't do anything with followers that have their own AI, like Serana, Vilja or Inigo.

When you've finished the pesky Dawngurad questline and she's lost all of her personality, you could try console-adding her to the right faction (but I have no idea which one that would be, only read that some people tried and nearly succeded without too much crashing.)

[Balgin]

3 hours ago, CaptainJ03 said:

Really? You'd be the first where it works. This mod, like every other, doesn't do anything with followers that have their own AI, like Serana, Vilja or Inigo.

When you've finished the pesky Dawngurad questline and she's lost all of her personality, you could try console-adding her to the right faction (but I have no idea which one that would be, only read that some people tried and nearly succeded without too much crashing.)

Oh I managed to get Serana to work as a devious follower with an  older version of the mod but you need to wait until she joins as a proper follower (looking for the moth priest) as she can't become a devious follower before that. I'm not sure at what point she'd become a regular follower during the vampire side of the storyline 'though.

 

I haven't tried again with a more recent version.

[Lupine00]

On 10/15/2021 at 9:07 PM, Straze said:

Is there a fix (console command?) (I tried: resetai / enable + disable))?

Try the scene unstick in the MCM debug menu.

The problem could be something else, it's unclear from from your description.

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, serana addicted loser said:

Hey, im having trouble getting Serana to work with this mod. She doesnt try to become devious naturally. So, i went to the general tab in the MCM and tried to make her devious but it says "NPC CANNOT FOLLOW" so that doesnt work either. Then i went to the debug menu and turned on the option to give every NPC the dialogue option to become devious, but that didnt work at all, no NPC's gained that dialogue. No clue what to do but would love Serana to be devious. i know the mod works because it loads and ive had other devious followers

If you dig back through the history, you will find various discussions of this, and how it can be achieved in various ways.

The root problem is that Serana isn't put in the vanilla follower alias, and doesn't have the vanilla follower factions ... unless you make those things happen, which is somewhat incompatible with the rest of her behavior.

In some rare cases, DFC might cause Serana to get stuck due to a conflicting blocking dialog, though DFC uses these rarely.

 

Probably the easiest way to have "a Serana" is to clone her appearance - or a modded appearance onto some generic follower mod, in which case you have an ordinary Serana follower.

 

I suppose one solution would be to write custom code for her in DFC, but it remains to be seen if I'll get back into doing updates soon. Maybe.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

I recently completed a quite lengthy playthrough using the SE port of DFC, and I kept extensive notes on my experience with the mods I was testing.  The following is a mish-mash of bug reports and just general user experience feedback.  I really enjoyed the mod on the whole, and mostly it worked pretty well, but I did identify a number of areas where I felt there was room to make a good mod even better, so I hope my feedback will be helpful.

• If you have foreplay enabled in Sexlab, then the "beg for spanking" plays a foreplay animation before spanking.  Which is awkward.  Don't know if there's a way to force an override of that setting, but it would be really helpful if there is.
• If it's possible, Devious Followers should probably disable/override certain vanilla dialogue options, especially for Housecarls. They shouldn't speak so deferentially to their obedient little pet.
• I don't know if it's possible, but other followers should probably be excluded from the "I'm a slut" deal.  I'm not 100% sure, but I think this was only happening with non-vanilla followers, so it may already be as good as it can be.  
• The "I'm a slut" deal doesn't respect the gender preference set in the MCM, which unfortunately spoils what could be one of my favourite aspects of the mod—the premise is just great, and I really like the writing at different levels of willpower.  I would say that dialogue component doesn't need to respect the gender preference, but not being able to avoid getting pulled into sex scenes with males makes me want to disable the deal entirely, sadly.  
• Chastity belt deal should really probably use the "(Open)" variants so that things don't get glitchy when a plug deal or "crawl in town" is also active.  The current interaction between these deals is really frustrating.  With an open chastity belt, you can add, remove, or swap anal plugs at will.  
• I really love the concept of the "in town" modular deals, but their current implementation has some issues. 
  • Some of them, like "tied in town", are carried out by the Devious Follower, which is great, immersive design.  But these don't work on fast travelling into town.  Even fast travelling into the stables doesn't work, as you're still technically in a city area—you have to either fast travel to some random camp outside town or fast travel into the stables and walk out of the cell and back in to have your Devious Follower enforce the deal.  
  • Some of the other deals—sadly, I didn't keep a record of which, but I think "naked in town" was one—don't seem to be carried out by the Devious Follower, and it seems to be your responsibility to comply.  My notes are a little lacking here, unfortunately, but I remember an instance where I was running past some small town, and I crossed into the cell briefly along the way and got into trouble for violating a deal.  Adding a grace period of say 30 seconds would likely resolve this issue.  It would also probably be helpful to have some cue to comply before punishment kicks in.  
• Relatedly, a really great addition would be the ability to beg your devious follower for a brief (e.g., 2 minutes) reprieve from a deal like "wear gloves" or "naked in town" so that you can do practical things like a wear +Smithing enchanted dress to better temper a weapon.  This could be as simple as a dialogue option, or it could be a more advanced thing where you have to earn your reprieve by pleasuring your devious follower.  Either way, a cooldown—e.g., once per day; better still, configurable in the MCM—would probably be appropriate.  ("Mistress, this slave would like to improve her mistress's weapon.  Is there any way she may earn permission to wear her smithing outfit for a moment?")  Another possible implementation—perhaps less immersive, but probably simpler—would be to add a power (perhaps call it "Safe Word"?) that suspends your deals for 2-3 minutes.  And sometimes there is value in simplicity, too.
• I haven't figured out exactly what's going on for sure, but it seems like it has to do with loading a save.  Whatever's causing it, sometimes your devious follower can get stuck telling you that you didn't offer sex or beg for spanks yesterday, even when you did.  I'm not certain, but I think this only affects the dialogue and doesn't actually incur punishment debt.  
• On the whole, I love the overall concept of this mod, but I dislike a large number of the individual deals.  Which is what the MCM is for, and the customisability is fantastic on the face of it.  But, unfortunately, the in-practice customisation isn't what it appears to be at first glance.  When you have a large number of deals disabled, certain things don't work properly.  The "minimum 9" classic deals looks like it's probably an artefact of an earlier version before modular deals?  It seems like it isn't a hard requirement, but from what I can tell, having fewer than 9 classic deals enabled will cause your devious follower to prefer extending existing deals over offering you new modular deals unless you set it up to force prioritisation of modular deals.  Reworking this limitation would be great.  But the bigger problem is that, if you have a small number of modular deals enabled, you'll tend to get the tier 1 & 2 deals spread out across multiple deal trees, which then blocks you from ever being able to get the tier 3 deals.  There are a few ways to fix this, but what I'd guess would be the best way to do it without changing the functionality more than necessary would be to add a rule that the last X tier 1/2 deals (where X = the number of tier 3 deals that are enabled) must fill tier 2 slots of existing deals rather than starting new tier 1s.  

@Lupine00 Keep up the good work!  (Also, I think you might have the hottest avatar on this forum!)

[Ursur1major]

I have encountered a small issue where Devious Followers thinks a deal is still in effect despite me having bought out all the deals I've had.

 

It doesn't seem to enforce anything, and none of the deals are ticked in, but it says I have one active deal, I can't dismiss my follower and I have the option buy out a deal in dialogue but clicking it just stops the conversation.

 

Is there an easy way to just clear out deals quickly?

[Tempest_Art]

Is it first 2 screans use Submissive Lola the Resubmission mod or only this mod?

I want to collect all the mods correctly in advance?.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Tempest_Art

[CaptainJ03]

On 11/11/2021 at 8:17 PM, Ursur1major said:

I have encountered a small issue where Devious Followers thinks a deal is still in effect despite me having bought out all the deals I've had.

(...)

Is there an easy way to just clear out deals quickly?

Yes, the counting up and down still seems to be buggy. There's an option in this mod's MCM to "reset" everything.

 

Spoiler

 

[tukaka241997]

Excuse me, but how exactly does the DF supposed to help me with SLS Licenses? Are they just provide goldto buy the license through game? Or they should safe-keeping the license for my PC?

[Leoosp]

49 minutes ago, tukaka241997 said:

Excuse me, but how exactly does the DF supposed to help me with SLS Licenses? Are they just provide goldto buy the license through game? Or they should safe-keeping the license for my PC?

 

No they buy the licenses for you and add it the PC's own debt to the follower! But add the appropriate ones to your inventory, for your character to be responsible for!

Edited November 15, 2021 by Leoosp

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, tukaka241997 said:

Excuse me, but how exactly does the DF supposed to help me with SLS Licenses? Are they just provide goldto buy the license through game? Or they should safe-keeping the license for my PC?

 

5 hours ago, Leoosp said:

No they buy the licenses for you and add it the PC's own debt to the follower! But add the appropriate ones to your inventory, for your character to be responsible for!

Edited 5 hours ago by Leoosp

Also, if the follower is managing your licenses, you will never have the problem where the vendor decides not to sell you one due to a whim.

On the other hand, license expenses become additional follower debt, and the follower buys the licenses how and when they choose - assuming you need them.

That can result in sudden, and sometimes unexpected spikes in debt, or short periods entering a city when you are without a license.

Those things aren't a defect, they're a feature - the follower is saving you some bothersome shopping trips, and the cost is managed a different way, but there are intentional down sides.

 

The follower isn't making sure your licenses are kept safe, because that would remove a down side, and also SLS just doesn't work that way.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Lupine00

[tukaka241997]

4 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

 

Also, if the follower is managing your licenses, you will never have the problem where the vendor decides not to sell you one due to a whim.

On the other hand, license expenses become additional follower debt, and the follower buys the licenses how and when they choose - assuming you need them.

That can result in sudden, and sometimes unexpected spikes in debt, or short periods entering a city when you are without a license.

Those things aren't a defect, they're a feature - the follower is saving you some bothersome shopping trips, and the cost is managed a different way, but there are intentional down sides.

 

The follower isn't making sure your licenses are kept safe, because that would remove a down side, and also SLS just doesn't work that way.

I see. But what do I have to do to make my DF buy the license for me? Do I have to new game? Because right now I have 0 gold, no license, and I dont have option to ask DF to buy one for me. Nor does she seem to care about it at all. 

[Leoosp]

First what version are you running are you running the beta version of SexLab Survival 0.662 or later which has the fixed licenses? If so you need to type the following into the console:-

 

setpqv _DFLicenses FixedSLS 1

 

Check if the SexLab Survival integration is found and active. If it is active you can ask about them managing the SLS licenses for you which will kick it off. Though make sure as part of the mod installation you have DFC's SEQ file install in the "Data\SEQ" folder.

[tukaka241997]

7 minutes ago, Leoosp said:

First what version are you running are you running the beta version of SexLab Survival 0.662 or later which has the fixed licenses? If so you need to type the following into the console:-

 

setpqv _DFLicenses FixedSLS 1

 

Check if the SexLab Survival integration is found and active. If it is active you can ask about them managing the SLS licenses for you which will kick it off. Though make sure as part of the mod installation you have DFC's SEQ file install in the "Data\SEQ" folder.

I'm running Sexlab Survival 0.662 and also have typed the command, but still nothing pop up. Oh, btw, in my MCM, the option for Other Mod Setting does not work. When I click it, nothing happen. 

[hexenhaus]

On 11/11/2021 at 6:57 PM, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I recently completed a quite lengthy playthrough using the SE port of DFC, and I kept extensive notes on my experience with the mods I was testing.  The following is a mish-mash of bug reports and just general user experience feedback.  I really enjoyed the mod on the whole, and mostly it worked pretty well, but I did identify a number of areas where I felt there was room to make a good mod even better, so I hope my feedback will be helpful.

• If you have foreplay enabled in Sexlab, then the "beg for spanking" plays a foreplay animation before spanking.  Which is awkward.  Don't know if there's a way to force an override of that setting, but it would be really helpful if there is.
• If it's possible, Devious Followers should probably disable/override certain vanilla dialogue options, especially for Housecarls. They shouldn't speak so deferentially to their obedient little pet.
• I don't know if it's possible, but other followers should probably be excluded from the "I'm a slut" deal.  I'm not 100% sure, but I think this was only happening with non-vanilla followers, so it may already be as good as it can be.  
• The "I'm a slut" deal doesn't respect the gender preference set in the MCM, which unfortunately spoils what could be one of my favourite aspects of the mod—the premise is just great, and I really like the writing at different levels of willpower.  I would say that dialogue component doesn't need to respect the gender preference, but not being able to avoid getting pulled into sex scenes with males makes me want to disable the deal entirely, sadly.  
• Chastity belt deal should really probably use the "(Open)" variants so that things don't get glitchy when a plug deal or "crawl in town" is also active.  The current interaction between these deals is really frustrating.  With an open chastity belt, you can add, remove, or swap anal plugs at will.  
• I really love the concept of the "in town" modular deals, but their current implementation has some issues. 
  • Some of them, like "tied in town", are carried out by the Devious Follower, which is great, immersive design.  But these don't work on fast travelling into town.  Even fast travelling into the stables doesn't work, as you're still technically in a city area—you have to either fast travel to some random camp outside town or fast travel into the stables and walk out of the cell and back in to have your Devious Follower enforce the deal.  
  • Some of the other deals—sadly, I didn't keep a record of which, but I think "naked in town" was one—don't seem to be carried out by the Devious Follower, and it seems to be your responsibility to comply.  My notes are a little lacking here, unfortunately, but I remember an instance where I was running past some small town, and I crossed into the cell briefly along the way and got into trouble for violating a deal.  Adding a grace period of say 30 seconds would likely resolve this issue.  It would also probably be helpful to have some cue to comply before punishment kicks in.  
• Relatedly, a really great addition would be the ability to beg your devious follower for a brief (e.g., 2 minutes) reprieve from a deal like "wear gloves" or "naked in town" so that you can do practical things like a wear +Smithing enchanted dress to better temper a weapon.  This could be as simple as a dialogue option, or it could be a more advanced thing where you have to earn your reprieve by pleasuring your devious follower.  Either way, a cooldown—e.g., once per day; better still, configurable in the MCM—would probably be appropriate.  ("Mistress, this slave would like to improve her mistress's weapon.  Is there any way she may earn permission to wear her smithing outfit for a moment?")  Another possible implementation—perhaps less immersive, but probably simpler—would be to add a power (perhaps call it "Safe Word"?) that suspends your deals for 2-3 minutes.  And sometimes there is value in simplicity, too.
• I haven't figured out exactly what's going on for sure, but it seems like it has to do with loading a save.  Whatever's causing it, sometimes your devious follower can get stuck telling you that you didn't offer sex or beg for spanks yesterday, even when you did.  I'm not certain, but I think this only affects the dialogue and doesn't actually incur punishment debt.  
• On the whole, I love the overall concept of this mod, but I dislike a large number of the individual deals.  Which is what the MCM is for, and the customisability is fantastic on the face of it.  But, unfortunately, the in-practice customisation isn't what it appears to be at first glance.  When you have a large number of deals disabled, certain things don't work properly.  The "minimum 9" classic deals looks like it's probably an artefact of an earlier version before modular deals?  It seems like it isn't a hard requirement, but from what I can tell, having fewer than 9 classic deals enabled will cause your devious follower to prefer extending existing deals over offering you new modular deals unless you set it up to force prioritisation of modular deals.  Reworking this limitation would be great.  But the bigger problem is that, if you have a small number of modular deals enabled, you'll tend to get the tier 1 & 2 deals spread out across multiple deal trees, which then blocks you from ever being able to get the tier 3 deals.  There are a few ways to fix this, but what I'd guess would be the best way to do it without changing the functionality more than necessary would be to add a rule that the last X tier 1/2 deals (where X = the number of tier 3 deals that are enabled) must fill tier 2 slots of existing deals rather than starting new tier 1s.  

@Lupine00 Keep up the good work!  (Also, I think you might have the hottest avatar on this forum!)

The slut-deal dialogue fires for vanilla followers too.

 

And I agree that there should be a (longer) grace period before punisment or at least some option to turn the dwelling deals into city-only ones and something like you have 30s to comply with your deals would be good. Maybe even an option to auto-comply/no punishment debt. I know that there is already a warning, but if you play without auto-pause (Skyrim Souls), you have no chance to comply in time...

The dwelling/village/cell borders are simply too random and maybe you are running from enemies or just pass alongside a village in the hope that the distance is enough and you won't get punished for violation. And some cells are not properly assigned; for example Dark Water Crossing is categorized as wildnis, but it's mine seems to be village and triggers punishments. Especially with the more restrictive deals like gags, blindfolds and such getting out of the devices for crossing some arbitrary lines feels pretty un-immersive and annoying.

 

The first few times I roleplayed a ditzy character and went with it, but then the deals get harder and it gets even more annoying fast.

 

For those reasons I often park my Devious follower in an interior cell (NFF wait) while doing my city stuff, ignoring the deals but it feels like cheating. If DF could provide non-locking devices this wouldn't be so problematic and you can ofcourse still use your own devices but I don't feel like cheating those in and maybe you do not even use mods that add DD traders. The whole debt sub thing works as good with easy to escape/non-locking devices, because for me the concept is all about voluntary submission (with low debt at least).

 

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by hexenhaus

[Lupine00]

On 11/17/2021 at 10:59 PM, hexenhaus said:

And I agree that there should be a (longer) grace period before punisment or at least some option to turn the dwelling deals into city-only ones and something like you have 30s to comply with your deals would be good. Maybe even an option to auto-comply/no punishment debt. I know that there is already a warning, but if you play without auto-pause (Skyrim Souls), you have no chance to comply in time...

The dwelling/village/cell borders are simply too random and maybe you are running from enemies or just pass alongside a village in the hope that the distance is enough and you won't get punished for violation. And some cells are not properly assigned; for example Dark Water Crossing is categorized as wildnis, but it's mine seems to be village and triggers punishments. Especially with the more restrictive deals like gags, blindfolds and such getting out of the devices for crossing some arbitrary lines feels pretty un-immersive and annoying.

The root problem is that a lot of old Lozeak mechanics were built on hello dialogs rather than AI package with forcegreets, and TBH I've replicated that wherever I could get away with it.

 

There are plentiful reasons for that. Forcegreets can easily go off the rails, are subject to issues injected from other mods, they take more time to write, and so on. However, they are much more responsive than relying on hellos.

 

Cleaning up the reaction system so that the mod schedules actions through a common control point is certainly possible, but also a ton of effort.

Possibly some timers aren't working properly, but that would be most likely a problem in SE.

 

Lozeak always passed this off as the capriciousness of the follower, and that's certainly one excuse.

 

You can (I believe) do something like you want with voluntary submission.

By fitting the DD items in advance yourself, with the optional non-locking mechanic of DD, you can later remove the device yourself, because it was never locked in the first place.

The follower won't trigger their dialog if you're already wearing the required devices.

 

You just need to be sure to pre-empt the follower, and so that's just more self-submission.

I've certainly used that mechanic myself, especially for gags.

 

This is also why I wanted the ability to lock those devices in code - so that the follower could check that locks are locked as a punishment for violations - because if you use this trick, the follower should be immersively aware of it.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Lupine00

[Anunya]

On the topic of gags:

 

Is there a way to beg the follower to take the gag off for a little while so the character can eat and drink? With needs mods, depending on settings, wearing the gag for extended periods of time is potentially lethal. I can think of a number of different ways it could be done that'd be consistent with the flavour of the mod, but I'm guessing the real issue is how to implement it without being a pain.

[Lupine00]

8 hours ago, Anunya said:

Is there a way to beg the follower to take the gag off for a little while so the character can eat and drink?

This has been discussed on and off.

There are different ways to resolve this.

 

I'm most in favor of the PC being required to either solve it themselves, or accept the follower's terms to access food/drink.

In the latter case, the provided refreshments may be less than ideal...

 

SD+ and DCL both deal with this problem.

[Anunya]

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

This has been discussed on and off.

There are different ways to resolve this.

 

I'm most in favor of the PC being required to either solve it themselves, or accept the follower's terms to access food/drink.

In the latter case, the provided refreshments may be less than ideal...

 

SD+ and DCL both deal with this problem.

 

Yeah I'd think the PC would have to "accept the follower's terms," whatever they might be.

[caqa]

Using the SE version, and all required mods fully updated (latest Sexlab beta, DD 5.1, SexLab Aroused V28b (baka version, partly overwritten by SLSO). Installed using MO2, and nothing is overwriting any DFC scripts. Moved DFC all the way to the bottom of the load order.

 

I am having an issue with the doggy event. The event works fine up until after I talked to the jarl (Balgruuf, first time seeing the event so no idea about other jarls). About 1 second after the jarl commenting about being a "good doggy ready to breed" all player controls completely stop responding. I can't move the camera, can't move, starting conversation doesn't work when an NPC, by chance, walks to the spot where I get the prompt to talk. Other then all player controls getting stuck the rest of the game seems to work just fine, all NPCs keep doing their thing. All menus also work fine.

 

The DFC mcm option to return controls doesn't work, console "enableplayercontol" doesn't change anything. Does anyone have any idea how to fix it?

Edited November 23, 2021 by caqa

[dsgjsdgfbsdhkjvbsdq7w3r485]

Ok, it seems like a have a problem what I can't solve by myself. Game constantly crashes when third stage of the plug deal offer is agreed to. To be precise - when you agrees to do it, after dialog finishes, game instantly crashes.
Crash log attached.


Crash_2021_11_24_1-32-55.txt