Devious Followers - Continued

[Anunya]

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It's possible that the SSE version has some difference.

 

Either that, or you simply don't have DFC overwriting NFF script files.

Or another mod has patched those files.

Can you check your DFC install and see if any of its files are being overwritten?

 

Once again, the nightmare of all those follower frameworks... three was bad enough, but with SE that sort of makes it SIX variants I have to consider.

It's getting unsustainable, though perhaps there is only this to fix...?

 

 

 

 

I have two rules related to DFC, and that's that deviousfollowers.esp should load after the follower framework, and after the unofficial skyrim patch.

 

Also, Devious Deirdre sounds delicious.

[Anunya]

@finalfrog - if I understand you correctly, all I have to do is download the appropriate voice pack(s) and install them as I would any other mod... and my devious follower will talk? Is that right?

[Herowynne]

25 minutes ago, Anunya said:

@finalfrog - if I understand you correctly, all I have to do is download the appropriate voice pack(s) and install them as I would any other mod... and my devious follower will talk? Is that right?

That is how it works for the FemaleSultry voice pack that I have been playing with.

 

I am really looking forward to trying out the other voice packs!

 

By the way, for folks who also use Sexlab Survival, @DoubleCheeseburger has posted a massive voice pack for SLS.

 

Now I have been playing with voiced SLS and voiced DFC and the experience is amazing!

[Anunya]

18 minutes ago, Herowynne said:

That is how it works for the FemaleSultry voice pack that I have been playing with.

 

I am really looking forward to trying out the other voice packs!

 

By the way, for folks who also use Sexlab Survival, @DoubleCheeseburger has posted a massive voice pack for SLS.

 

Now I have been playing with voiced SLS and voiced DFC and the experience is amazing!

 

Oh wow... I might have to try that out...

 

 

[finalfrog]

1 hour ago, Anunya said:

@finalfrog - if I understand you correctly, all I have to do is download the appropriate voice pack(s) and install them as I would any other mod... and my devious follower will talk? Is that right?

That is correct. The voice packs also include files for non-follower dialogue too for each voice types. So if you install the MaleGuard pack for example the guard dialogues will be voiced. If you install the MaleCondescending pack then Devious Follower interactions (e.g. being whored out) with NPCs that use that voice (e.g. Nazeem) will be voiced.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Anunya said:

have two rules related to DFC, and that's that deviousfollowers.esp should load after the follower framework, and after the unofficial skyrim patch.

That relates to the ESP, not to script overrides.

You're using Vortex? (MO2 also supports rules).

I don't know how to ensure file overwrites in Vortex, but it might follow ESP order by default.

[Lupine00]

@finalfrog So many packs! ?

Now I daren't update any dialog...

[ghurdhyll]

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Read up the page (where you originally posted) about three posts up  

I haven't fixed it yet, but it should be trivial.

Ops, sorry i haven't seen it, thanks for responding anyways.

[CaptainJ03]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

That relates to the ESP, not to script overrides.

You're using Vortex? (MO2 also supports rules).

I don't know how to ensure file overwrites in Vortex, but it might follow ESP order by default.

Yes, as far as I understand Vortex, the Load Order not only applies to the esp, but to all files that came with the mod. Whenever you install something that's prone to overwrite some existing files, you get a window how you want to handle things, and that sets a rule. You must go from the Mods to the Plugins window and click on "sort now" to apply the new rules.

So you're saying DFC should come even after the Follower Framework? NFF is currently last in LO

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, CaptainJ03 said:

So you're saying DFC should come even after the Follower Framework?

Yes. Exactly that.

DFC patches NFF, EFF and AFT. It hooks their recruit and dismiss functions and gates dismissal (in most circumstances).

 

It needs to overwrite any of these.

 

 

With NFF overwriting DFC, the DFC patches will be overwritten with the standard version of the follower framework files.

It will (probably) still register your follower, eventually, but like a vanilla follower (which ends up being a bit wrong) and dismissal will be undefined behavior that I know nothing about. Hirelings will be all kind of broken.

 

 

If NFF is overwritten by DFC, then follower acquisition should be effectively instant, and dismissal should work reliably for normal followers and hirelings.

 

This is documented in the install instructions on the front page, in case you ever need to refresh your memory.

 

 

Think of it like this:

• Do your follower frameworks contain explicit patches for DFC? No.
• Does DFC have explicit support for the follower frameworks? Yes.
• Which script files do you need to preserve for the support to work? DFC.
• Thus DFC must overwrite.
• If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit!

 

[bubba999]

4 hours ago, finalfrog said:

That is correct. The voice packs also include files for non-follower dialogue too for each voice types. So if you install the MaleGuard pack for example the guard dialogues will be voiced. If you install the MaleCondescending pack then Devious Follower interactions (e.g. being whored out) with NPCs that use that voice (e.g. Nazeem) will be voiced.

Hi, I'm trying to find the Femalecommander voice pack which is Uthgerd, I believe. But I seem to have missed it... can you re-upload it? Thanks.

 

The page looks like this so I can't tell what I'm downloading.

 

 

Spoiler

 

[Lupine00]

46 minutes ago, bubba999 said:

The page looks like this so I can't tell what I'm downloading.

If you select the post, copy and paste to a text editor, you can see the full names of the files.

 

[bubba999]

Just now, Lupine00 said:

If you select the post, copy and paste to a text editor, you can see the full names of the files.

 

I mean..... that's a lot of work.... I just need ONE file!

[Lupine00]

2 minutes ago, bubba999 said:

I mean..... that's a lot of work.... I just need ONE file!

It's the fifth file of the third upload.

 

I found that just now, with three copy and pastes.

[bubba999]

1 minute ago, Lupine00 said:

It's the fifth file of the third upload.

 

I found that just now, with three copy and pastes.

Thank you, your copy/paste skills are Goddess-like.

[Lupine00]

11 minutes ago, bubba999 said:

Thank you, your copy/paste skills are Goddess-like.

I will munge the packs together and upload to mega when I get time.

Not tonight though. Alas, real work.

[Seeker999]

5 hours ago, CaptainJ03 said:

Yes, as far as I understand Vortex, the Load Order not only applies to the esp, but to all files that came with the mod. Whenever you install something that's prone to overwrite some existing files, you get a window how you want to handle things, and that sets a rule. You must go from the Mods to the Plugins window and click on "sort now" to apply the new rules.

So you're saying DFC should come even after the Follower Framework? NFF is currently last in LO

In the Vortex plugins tab you can create rules specifically for the plugins. When you hit deploy in the mods tab, it does sort everything but the mod assets are sorted independently from the mod plugins. Which is really how it's always been. You set up the mod load order and then went to LOOT to sort the plugins.

 

As I found out recently, I needed to

1. install my mods
2. resolve any conflicts by creating rules - conflicts are related to the assets, not the plugins unless maybe if the plugins are named exactly the same. I was unable to create a rule when there were no conflicts.
3. deploy
4. go to the plugins tab - this is what I wasn't doing before. I relied on mod deployment, assuming the plugins would load in the same order.
5. sort (Vortex uses LOOT rule system, so no need to open LOOT unless you want to copy the load order)
6. verify that my plugin load order was what I wanted.
7. STOP if everything is ok.
8. create separate rules for the plugins, if needed, OR double-click on the specific plugin to open up an information pane. Go to 'Group' and add it to one of the groups in the drop down (early loaders, late loaders, etc.). Then sort again.

I hope this helps somebody. I could have saved myself some aggravation if I had understood all this before. ?

[finalfrog]

5 hours ago, bubba999 said:

Hi, I'm trying to find the Femalecommander voice pack which is Uthgerd, I believe. But I seem to have missed it... can you re-upload it? Thanks.

 

The page looks like this so I can't tell what I'm downloading.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Sorry about that. Didn't realize LL clipped off file names after a certain length. I've edited the link text so it should be easier to tell which file is which.

[Seeker999]

OK, I downloaded all the voice packs. For my convenience, I repacked them into just 3 archives: one for named, one for female, and one for male voices. I installed all 3 and tested w/ a new DF, Stenvar.

His voice worked great. Made a deal right off, and it turned out to be perfect for testing: THE SLUT DEAL!

Yep, spoke to 2 different people, Rolff and Yolanda(?) a dark elf, both replies were voiced.

So cool!

Thank you, @finalfrog for all your hard work.

I recommend installing all the voice packs so you can hear the responses and not just your DF.

[bubba999]

1 hour ago, finalfrog said:

 

Sorry about that. Didn't realize LL clipped off file names after a certain length. I've edited the link text so it should be easier to tell which file is which.

Thank you. They are really nice. Have you thought about doing them for Sub Lola?

[finalfrog]

31 minutes ago, bubba999 said:

Thank you. They are really nice. Have you thought about doing them for Sub Lola?

I've been considering it! I was afraid that it'd take too long due to the amount of manual effort involved, but I learned a lot doing these that should speed up the process of doing similar stuff in future. Using the silent voice generator lip files in particular speeds things up a lot.

 

Work flow goes something like:

1. Make stub followers (~1 min / voicetype)

2. Export dialogue (~15 min)

3. Edit dialogue to remove non-spoken bits (~15 min)

4. Edit dialogue to tweak pronunciation (~30 min)

5. Run dialogue through xVASynth (~12 hr / 10k lines)

6. Convert 32-bit .wav files from older models to 16-bit (~30 min)

7. Generate fake .lip files (~20 min / 10k lines)

8. Generate .fuz files (~1 hr)

9. Organize and package voice packs (~30 min)

 

I could save time by cutting some of the less frequently used or lower quality voicetypes, such as the Dragonborn Dark Elf voices, Ulfric, general Tullius, Maven, and Mercer Frey.

[Hex Bolt]

54 minutes ago, finalfrog said:

1 hour ago, bubba999 said:

Thank you. They are really nice. Have you thought about doing them for Sub Lola? 

I've been considering it!

Getting off-topic, but to save you some trouble, I don't think voiced dialog is a good fit for Sub Lola because I frequently add new lines and modify existing ones.  Additionally, some players follow the process that the mod describes to replace "Lola" in dialog with whatever name they want, so then the voiced lines would be wrong.  I'm glad that it seems to be working out well for Devious Followers, though.

[Herowynne]

12 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

Sub Lola because I frequently add new lines and modify existing ones.

 

I have discovered playing with voiced SLS and voiced DFC that voiced dialogue really adds a lot to the experience.

 

I would love to hear voiced dialogue for SubLola! That would be so awesome!

 

But I can sympathize with @HexBolt8 that these wonderful voice packs created for mods might cause mod authors to be reluctant to tinker with or add dialogue.

 

Here's hoping that better tools are developed, which can enable a command-line batch process from ESP file to .fuz files, thereby making it easy for mod authors to re-generate .fuz files with each release.

[finalfrog]

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Getting off-topic, but to save you some trouble, I don't think voiced dialog is a good fit for Sub Lola because I frequently add new lines and modify existing ones.  Additionally, some players follow the process that the mod describes to replace "Lola" in dialog with whatever name they want, so then the voiced lines would be wrong.  I'm glad that it seems to be working out well for Devious Followers, though.

Yeah that's fair. Also I did a quick start on an attempt and I noticed that a number of the responses have "New Response.wav" as their wav file. I'm guessing you do some of your dialogue editing in xEdit (I do the same whenever possible, anything to avoid the CK), which doesn't populate the voice file entry like the CK. I did some testing and the only fix appears to be deleting the old responses text entry and adding new ones, which... yeah, not gonna ask you to do that.

 

2 hours ago, Herowynne said:

Here's hoping that better tools are developed, which can enable a command-line batch process from ESP file to .fuz files, thereby making it easy for mod authors to re-generate .fuz files with each release.

Right now the only part of the process which requires the CK is the dialogue export process. I think it should be possible to do with an xEdit script, but I'm not sure I'm the person for the job, at least not until I've had more experience with the scripting language.

 

The part which is unfortunately impossible to automate reliably is converting the text of the mod from a format intended to be read to a format which will get xVASynth to speak the spoken parts of the text. Sometimes a word surrounded by ** indicates a sound effect, other times it's used for emphasis. In the first case the word should be deleted, in the second depending on the tone you need to either just remove the *'s or change the word to all caps. And like translations there's not one "right" answer.

 

If a mod was designed from conception to be compatible with voice synth, then that would be different, since these sort of manual tweaks would be baked in (outside of pronunciation tweaks which could be automated). You could even make it easy to generate and release differential voice patches  by performing a diff of the dialogue export between releases and only regenerating the lines which have changed.

 

But yeah, this is all probably getting off-topic. I'll create a thread in the general discussion forum to talk more about voice synth support in general.

 

Edit: Let's move xVASynth discussion here:

 

[jammingserver1]

Quote

@jammingserver1, thanks for an interesting post.

Thanks for reading it in the first place. It can be easy to get carried away with rants that don't add much to the discussion at hand ? .  Now, about that...

You thought the first post was long? Oh dear. Seriously, you can just jump to the last two spoilers for the implementation details. The rest are vague design considerations.

 

Quote

Should DFC be tracking all those one-time-only experiences and creating lasting and cumulative consequences for them?

 

TLDR: I realized that that would be too specific to fit with the mod's design of general, modular, reusable content. A trait which naturally makes DFC viable as a potential base for more unique mods to expand on it.

Spoiler

For arbitrary continuity, we need to track arbitrary past experiences. But we're in Skyrim, where opening a door has a 10% chance of summoning Alduin, or worse, thirsty patrolling bandits. That randomness puts a cap to the achievable continuity of our character anyway. So a story relating to the player must be either generic enough to allow for some derailing, or put up endless 'BUSINESS IN PROGRESS, KEEP OUT' signs until all the quests are finished.

 

Devious Followers Continued takes that lesson of general-use to heart, allowing the player (at least in the beginning) to play the base game beneath it while it's long-term effects come into play. The only reason the mass of existing mechanics does not devour your mod-maintaining soul (yet...?), is because none of them care TOO much about getting derailed by the noise in the current location, they just add their own weight on top periodically.  The player's position is less defined by tracking past states of specific situations, where a single bugged giant could define the rest of the character development, and more by the current combination of generic components of varying durations. Composition over cumulation.

 

It trades off elaborately themed, continuous story arcs to get robust, reusable, interactive game mechanics.

Your question made me realize that non-reusable events building a detailled character progression are probably too specific to fit the mod's core design, as much as I would love to see them. The only way to keep the complexity manageable would be to severely limit the unique scenes available, leading to a loss in theme range of the base mod.

 

At best, a 'Deidre' mod (?) or any longer-arching progression story between characters could provide it's own handful of unique events and 3-5 progression tiers giving the player and follower unique depth, then simply change the DFC configuration of expected deals/available deals according to the current tier and a broad 'tone/personality template' which makes DFC's tone more fitting to the current tier, using its functionality as a starting point to put it's individual narrative touch upon. For this, it would be enough to only provide a minimal 'template variety' in DFC - a single, optional line of dialogue upfront before making a deal, detached from the deal dialogue, so the loving, equal spouse and the brutally overbearing enslaving mercenary don't sound 100% identical in the process of deal negotiation, but avoiding to have to branch out every deal dialogue.

 

 

So what can be done within the limits of DFC, if we can't get specific enough for a long, unique story? How detailled can archetypes/personality type templates get before we lose re-use value and are in the territory of 'this is great, but it doesn't fit into this mod or it's going to bloat to death'?

 

TLDR: handful of tone-setting, reusable templates disconnected from the general dialogues. look at a section further below with the detailled archetype template ideas.

Spoiler

 

Within DFC, it has become clear that modularity beats everything in the long run; and as it continues to grow, the question where to make the cuts on the corners of the mod becomes more interesting, where to hand over responsibility to some other mod in the ecosystem, and where to keep the monopole of its dynamics. The replacement of classic deals with modular deals, the enslavement-handover-api, the 'harsh-punishment' event API, the use of licenses as an additional external progression arc... these all further improve this idea of both reusability, and interplay where other mods are responsible with fleshing out more specific environments, and some further overarching story, while DFC provides templates broad enough to apply, yet detailed enough to stand on their own.

 

Now that I realized the gap between the mods we dreamed of, and DFC, where to set the limits of scope?

 

I believe that by simply exposing settings for 'amount of expected deals' and 'available sets of deals' (so that the set of options can keep getting worse), one could push most of the headache of unique stories/finetuned-personality-archetypes into some other mod's codebase if it proves too stubborn to be fit into the existing system. Making definitions of archetypes, unique events and guided-progression-arcs extensible/tuneable by simply controlling rough deal-guidance from the outside through these parameters, even if only from another mod belonging to DFC, seems a possible maintenance solution, but could also be a bad decision depending on the architecture or your future plans for 'guided-deal-progressions'. At worst, it's a good excuse to move on to other things: "Character doesn't fit your headcanon? 'Sadist' arc progresses too slow? Make your own progression/character archetype!" At best, it makes 99% of the needed functionality reusable for making a dedicated Deidre mod/other unique character.

 

 

Follower personalities and archetypes, especially, seem a great opportunity to answer this question of 'where to cut', 'where to hand over', and 'what to include'.

Everything too complicated and detailled to be reusable, should be externalized as individual mod. This includes most long-term story progressions too specific to a certain character trait and relationship progress, like the mods we both dreamed of. However, some basic 'setting outlines', simple comments by the follower, can serve a wide range of themes, and those can be included in DFC - barebones enough to be flexibly used by various guided-deal-arcs,  detailled enough to spark some headcanon or fit into a more elaborate, unique follower mod plugging into DFC's rich functionality if someone wants to make one later. You already had some ideas of personality trait templates when thinking about guided-deal-arcs: 'Controlling', 'Adoring', 'Sadistic', 'Humiliating', 'Nightmare',.. These could also be templates for slight variations for the tone of the mod.

 

 

The challenge is then transformed from extending code functionality of a single, growing mod, to cleverly design a minimal number of  'follower personality/tone' style templates for the player's imagination to pick up on, minimizing clash of different tones, and telling other mods to take over for world-setting flavour specifics if the templates aren't enough for them. These 'personality flavor' templates can be as simple as single interjections between the actual deal dialogues. I hope my suggestions below can clarify what I mean.

 

 

 

How can those tone/personality templates be implemented without blowing up the existing dialog trees?

 

TLDR: Single-Dialog-Event injected somehere in front of negotiation, and somehere afterwards. Minimal change to existing dialog trees.  Use archetype templates only where they make sense.

Spoiler

Flavor-setting-dialog-examples:

 

This builds off of ideas discussed before, such as replacing 'debt' with 'duty' or 'contribution'. However, it should be much less work than re-making all the dialog trees.

For the rough first 'half' of the player's downfall, their original type of relation to the follower has significant impact. The follower's personality/demands don't have an effect on the tone.

For the rough second 'half' of the player's downfall, the original relation to the follower doesn't have an impact. The follower's personality/demands have an effect on the tone.

This separation further reduces the amount of outcomes, ie. work. There's no 'humiliating' template since all of the personalities use humiliation to some extent to get the ball rolling in the first place.

 

INITIAL RELATIONSHIP TEMPLATES: (only one applies, for simplicity's sake)

Spouse

Housecarl

Guild Member/Friend/Ally

Hired Follower/Mercenary

 

PERSONALITY TEMPLATES: (only one applies, for simplicity's sake)

Controlling/Obsessive

Adoring

Greedy

Narcistic

Cruel/Disregarding

Sadistic

Generic - Fallback (Humiliating)

 

MINIMUM IMPLEMENTATION:

The minimum work to implement these differing tones is the following:

 

After a cooldown of some hours, the next time when initiating a deal/demand negotiation, a rough check is done on the player's willpower or general state, for 'are they a pushover already yes/no'

If player is no pushover yet/has willpower, the INITIAL RELATIONSHIP TEMPLATE is used.

If player is already a pushover, the PERSONALITY TEMPLATE is used.

Then, an according 'interjection' is said as dialogue, giving the negotiation some rough context.

Then, the normal deal-negotiation-dialogues are done as usual.

After the negotiation or process has finished, a last 'quip' (single line of subtitled dialog, as player has left the dialog menu) comments on their current 'relationship status.

 

If it is not easily possible to chain these events directly into the dialog process, they can also happen a bit separately before and after the dialog, whenever there's time to conveniently plug them in. In the worst case, they can be entirely out of the dialog menu, just subtitles occasionally playing while the player is doing things.

 

 

Quote

One-off unique content does have value, but could this (kind of) scenario be altered to be more reusable?

TLDR: open spoiler for all the detailled examples and clarification.

 

Spoiler

My idea behind it was for it to be entirely reusable.

The core point of my 'quests' sketch was simply to put a little piece of additional story into a 'deal' to tell the player where the follower currently thinks they stand/what they can get away with. You already made great suggestions on making the content more repeatable, that was indeed what I wanted to convey. But in fact, there does not have to be any mini-story content in between 'A' and 'C' of the pattern all, which makes it entirely modular and adaptable to any sort of content, of any tier of intensity or dominance. Every event using the pattern can be left out, implemented, or even expanded upon, depending on how much work one wants to put in it. I used this pattern below for the personality-template-quotes, but that's not necessary either.

 

Archetype-Specific-Content Pattern:

 

Part A : Reasoning there's a single claim the follower makes, looking at how the player reacts to it, which is half outlandish, half putting the player down. There might be an option for the player to answer, or none, simply proceeding with the game. If agreed to,  it means 'accepting their suggestions', the follower gets more daring as they feel the player puts more weight on their opinion. (that can make the follower one 'step' more demanding,  or start a quest, or lower willpower, or have no effect at all). Optional extension: Player can risk to speak out against follower, leading to some extra work/cost, but keeping willpower/pride. Player answer options: 'I'm not sure.' (Disagree), 'I guess so.' (Agree) 'Hmm.' (Reluctance, counted by the follower as success)

 

Part B : entirely optional. Can be nothing, a deal, a gamble, a miniquest, a demand.

 

Part C : The new position If player has reacted negatively to A, follower reasons along the lines 'You're not taking suggestions. I'm grumpy.'  But the follower acts as if it hadn't been important at all, more a broad question of principle/attitude, to make the player forget as fast as possible that there was a significant disagreement. Optional extension: The follower will be one step less 'daring' for a short while, and if they try something again, it will be more subtle/cautious, giving the player less opportunity to speak up openly.

If player has accepted the claim in A, follower says a line to reinforce the new 'relationship' they want the player to think they have. Optional extension: This can lead to a higher deal-expectance, expecting more gambles to be taken regularly, or just generally the follower becoming one step more 'daring', or have no effect at all.

 

All of these things are already in DFC in some form. The only thing I'd love is to make A and C have some creative, horribly-loose argumentations the follower thinks of to make their next demand make perfect sense, which work in gaslighting a low-debt player. This also seems the easiest/laziest point to show the follower's character/archetype/demands, by simply switching their line of argument leading to their new entitlement.  Also, these argumentations can be simplified to fit all archetypes, and just have random lines of arguments chosen. In reality, the most relevant one will be the 'Mercenary/Hired Follower' template, the others are just to get the point across.

 

 

 

 

The Examples

 

The following examples use both the pattern described here, and serve as personality templates described in the former section. It is not necessary to combine these two.

 

Minimal examples:

Spoiler

Tier 0: Nudging

Spouse:

'It is a long tradition of partnership in Skyrim to prove one's trust in their partners by the choice of clothing. I think that collars are especially wonderful.'

Disagree -> 'Looks like we have to work on your taste. No matter, there are other ways to express a partnership.'

Agree ->  'Indeed! Then again, there's many things that look great on you...' (Optional: Could proceed to some wearing dare)

 

Housecarl:

'Your duty is to serve the hold that honored you. My duty is to make sure you're not making trouble instead.'

Disagree -> 'I don't think you understand the nature of our obligations yet.'

Agree -> 'Good. Only fools abandon their duties.'

 

Ally/Friend/Guildmember:

'I think my allegiance deserves some good will.'

Disagree -> 'Loyalty twists before it tears.'

Agree -> 'Good to see you understand my position.'

 

Hireling/HiredMercenary:

'You know that this isn't worth my pay.'

Disagree -> 'Profit finds a way.'

Agree -> 'I'm sure we'll find something of value.'

 

Tier 1:Guilttripping

Spouse:

'You haven't paid enough attention lately. I am entitled to some compensation.'

(Something bad happens to the player.)

Afterwards: 'It's good to spend some time helping each other.'

 

Housecarl:

'You have coasted on your titles in disregard to the hold.'

(Something bad happens to the player.)

Afterwards: 'Honor is lost so easily, but there are ways to earn it back.'

 

Ally/Friend/Guildmember:

'You've stretched our purpose too far to your whims.'

(Something bad happens to the player.)

Afterwards: 'The bonds of friendship don't break easy.'

 

Hireling:

'You held back my pay and skimped on meals. Let's make sure you don't forget again...'

(Something bad happens to the player.)

Afterwards: 'Nothing like a refreshing reminder of contract details.'

 

 

Tier 2: Gaslighting

Spouse: 'You keep forgetting your promises! Our marriage is built on trust!'

(Excuse to start a mini-quest.)

Afterwards: 'You've barely made up for the last week.'

 

Housecarl:

'Your attitude is a disgrace to your title. You even insult the hold in your sleep! My lesson will be merciful this time.'

(Escuse to start a mini-quest.)

Afterwards: 'You have a long way to pay for the gifts of the hold.'

 

Ally/Friend/Guildmember:

'You keep betraying those relying on you. I saw that trick back there. How about a lesson on principles!'

(Escuse to start a mini-quest.)

Afterwards: 'Your character needs refinement.'

 

Hireling:

'That's another time you keep falling in my back. Don't think I won't notice!'

(Escuse to start a mini-quest.)

Afterwards: 'You slow down my path too often.'

 

Tier 3: Leadership

Spouse:

''You've recklessly taken our ship too far to the cliffs. I'll have to set the course for now.'

(Excuse to start long-term suppressive/controlling behaviour.)

Afterwards: 'You'd be lost without me, and you can't even see it.'

 

Housecarl:

'Your arrogance has tried the patience of the hold long enough. Your will is forfeit.'

(Excuse to start long-term suppressive/controlling behaviour.)

Afterwards: 'You didn't serve the hold fit for your title, so you will serve another way.'

 

Ally/Friend/Guildmember:

'Your failure to handle matters is appalling. A firm hand will get you back in the sun.'

(Excuse to start long-term suppressive/controlling behaviour.)

Afterwards: 'If it wasn't for my guidance, you'd be dead off a cliff by now.'

 

Hireling:

'You're squandering our options. I earned you enough, now you'll earn for me!'

(Excuse to start long-term suppressive/controlling behaviour.)

Afterwards: 'If I wasn't so generous, you'd be lower than a dog.'

 

 

 

 

Tier 5: Personality (from here on, the original relationship type is irrelevant.)

Controlling/Obsessive:

'The shorter your leash, the more reliable you become.'

(Horrible things happen.)

Afterwards: 'The chains of fate. Just tight enough.'

 

Adoring:

'You look cute when you listen.'

(Horrible things happen.)

Afterwards: 'How sweet to see a beautiful face pay attention.'

 

Greedy:

'I'm trying to figure out how to actually get something from this investment.'

(Horrible things happen.)

Afterwards: ''Be glad for your gear. It puts your worth above zero.'

 

Narcistic:

'You better show some appreciation. My presence is your blessing.'

(Horrible things happen.)

Afterwards: 'If only you could grasp how lucky you are to serve me.'

 

 

Cruel/Disregarding:

'Your breath is wasteful. Back into the dirt.'

(Horrible things happen.)

Afterwards: 'This rabble wouldn't fill a soulgem.'

 

Sadistic:

'Fear. It suits your future.'

(Horrible things happen.)

Afterwards: 'Pain builds character. Not that you'll use it.'

 

Generic - Fallback (Humiliating):

'A weak mind in a soft body.'

(Horrible things happen.)

Afterwards: 'Training is the first step to worth. Keep walking.'

 

 

 

Enough is enough?!:

 

Spoiler

Don't get me started.

How could a mod like Deidre build off of that...

Think of those old choose-your-own-story books (people still read books?) - you make a single numeric tier list 1-6. 6 is where the player starts, daring to have own opinions. 4 is where the follower always is. Or make it 10, if you have the design stamina. Then you give each tier a characteristic relationship. Then you find a unique little mini-story getting from the upper tier to the lower one. Then you make the follower force the player into habitually repeating new behaviour appropriate to the new stage. Then you find a little scene showing the player-character's new, shifted mindset and 'frame of normality' through the actions they are aware of as 'possible' in a given problem. Voila! You can even skip some stages at random during play and replace them with generic happenings, or put some unique flags+conditioning+followups in between. And there we go, the entire progression fleshed out, complete with all flavor text and scene-setting. Now, we let the mod dig into the internal settings of DFC, setting the correct 'debt', 'available deals', 'expected deals', 'follower-boredom',  and 'follower-archetype-template' fitting to the tier, and we got our mod.

 

Now, about that, I- (gets dragged away from keyboard by forum police)

 

 

 

--EDITed out a typo. Probably more to find.