Devious Followers - Continued

[Anunya]

@Herowynne - that does help, thank you

 

So slot is important, light/heavy is not.

[Lupine00]

8 hours ago, PInute said:

I do hope you were talking about Immersive Citizens - AI Overhaul and not a different mod on SE, simply named AI Overhaul.

Yes. I am. I don't know about this lightweight SE mod. I'm quite sketchy on SE mods.

[Pinute]

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Yes. I am. I don't know about this lightweight SE mod. I'm quite sketchy on SE mods.

 

I've been modding SE off and on since SKSE finally dropped, and SE mods are moving so fast right now no one person has a hope of keeping up, not even with just the dll based ones. I certainly can't.

[finalfrog]

19 hours ago, CaptainJ03 said:

 

Having a voiced devious follower would be amazing...

Would you (or someone else) be so kind to explain an old dafty what steps I need to take, apart from dropping the files into my Data folder?

I understand that I'd need to do something in CK, unfortunately I need someone to explain every single step...

 

TIA, Joe.

Just uploaded a video demoing how this is done: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/videos/13926

 

Both of the quirks I mention at the end of the description apply to Devious Followers.

[Lupine00]

28 minutes ago, finalfrog said:

Both of the quirks I mention at the end of the description apply to Devious Followers.

If there are certain dialogs it doesn't seem to export for, I can look and see if there's anything special about them.

The dialogs in DFC are not done consistently, as they have built up over time, and some may have odd flags on, or off.

i.e. some might have the lip file disabled, others will be set to force subtitles

[finalfrog]

So funny story I have to share. I was in Whiterun to sell my loot and had carefully split my loot with Serana so that I had 399/400 weight. I was almost to Belathor's shop when Serana said "Here there are for you" and handed me 2 gold ingots. Seems the base follower framework noticed I was using Devious Followers and decided to get into the spirit of things. ?

[finalfrog]

12 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

If there are certain dialogs it doesn't seem to export for, I can look and see if there's anything special about them.

The dialogs in DFC are not done consistently, as they have built up over time, and some may have odd flags on, or off.

i.e. some might have the lip file disabled, others will be set to force subtitles

Huh, I guess that might explain why the automated GenerateLips skipped some of them. I don't remember all the dialogues that had the issue off the top of my head but I believe most of the dialogues under DFPayoff and _DFlowRemove branches were affected. I can get you a complete list if it would help.

[finalfrog]

I think the _DFlow stage condition on the second response of _DFLicensesStatusTopic (XX3272CB) is reversed. It looks like this response is supposed to block the rest of the possible responses when the player is enslaved, but the condition check is GetStage(_DFlow) < 97, which is when the player isn't enslaved yet.

[Lupine00]

12 hours ago, floodpoolform said:

Do you have any plans to just flat out allow the player to untoggle specific deals from popping up in the game?

You can already do this... You do mention the modular deals...

You can disable individual modular deals, or limit the level on a classic deal, even to zero so the deal cannot appear at all.

 

There is no way to do something like stop the stage 1 of a deal while keeping the stage 2 and 3 though, because without changing those classic deals into a sort of modular deal, it makes no sense. They're a very old and fundamental part of the mod, and a lot of players think the way they work is better than modular, but if you don't want them, you can turn them off.

 

The classic deals are not problematic at low levels, and don't require you to do anything seriously harmful to your income later on either.

Those deals were always quite well balanced.

 

There is no heavy bondage deal that applies in dungeons.

There isn't even a nakedness rule that applies in dungeons, though there are items that will limit your armor.

Probably the otherwise harmless arm+leg cuffs deals is the most impactful on armor. The boots and gloves can also be a bit bothersome.

 

The whore armor - you can chance it any time, there is no problem changing it mid-play - is not the best armor, but certainly not the worst either. In some cases of early game it may even be an upgrade. That's also just one deal, so you can disable the entire whore deal and that will solve any issues there.

 

Classic deal difficulties for the player:

• Piercing deal - piercings don't stop you fighting much
• Slut deal - only requires bindings/nakedness in towns
• Bondage deal - boots and gloves will impact armor, and the gag will be annoying and may impact ability to make money (depends on other mods) but can be worked around
• Ownership deal - as mentioned above, the arm/leg cuffs impact armor but certainly not game blocking, the rest has no great impact on earning ability
• Whore deal - not the best armor, but doesn't stop progress

 

If you can explain how you suffer from...

12 hours ago, floodpoolform said:

just outright the inability to play the game as it was intended (can't delve dungeons fully bound)

Then I may be able to better understand exactly where the problem is.

 

DFC more often than not is a route out of bindings added by other mods.

The only time you will be fully bound in a dungeon is:

• as a slave, when the follower gets annoyed and wants to leave - but you can return another time
• when your debt has hit absurd levels and enslavement is disabled

In the latter case, if you've capped out on deals to remove your debt, and you're in that situation, you've basically "lost" and will suffer "alternate punishment", need to find a way out of debt despite your bindings - and the follower will remove them in dungeons so you can fight, or are due to be discarded.

 

If your follower isn't removing "chains of debt" so you can fight, it's a bug - but you do need to ask for it in most cases.

 

 

There is no deal that will make you bound and unable to fight in dungeons. Even enslavement only does that in rare situations.

The chains of debt aren't enabled if you have slavery enabled, and even if they are, they also don't stop you in dungeons.

 

 

Maybe if you can clarify your proposed changes a bit more - because I can't really follow what you want different - then I could get where you're coming from better?

 

I could make it so the classic deals have modular equivalents that are more flexible (and fix some conflict issues) but it's not a low effort thing to do - actually quite a chore - so there are probably things that more people want more. I do want to do something about this, even if just to reduce conflicts, but it still might be a while.

[Lupine00]

11 hours ago, finalfrog said:

I think the _DFlow stage condition on the second response of _DFLicensesStatusTopic (XX3272CB) is reversed. It looks like this response is supposed to block the rest of the possible responses when the player is enslaved, but the condition check is GetStage(_DFlow) < 97, which is when the player isn't enslaved yet.

That's right. It's a wrong condition.

Fixed in 2.14.2 I hope.

  

21 hours ago, finalfrog said:

most of the dialogues under DFPayoff and _DFlowRemove branches were affected. I can get you a complete list if it would help.

I looked at those and saw nothing unusual.

Maybe if some specific IDs are provided, I can look more closely for something, or figure out a cause.

Might not be a sensible reason.

[Herowynne]

On 5/1/2021 at 3:23 PM, Herowynne said:

This is remarkable. Are you taking requests? If so, FemaleSultry would be great to have.

 

On 5/1/2021 at 5:16 PM, finalfrog said:

Here ya go. Sadly the adding the master Faction to an NPC with the right voicetype doesn't appear to fix the Creation Kit is skipping a bunch of the .wav files when I run GenerateLips. I still had to go through and generate a ton of .lip files manually. Until I can find a solution for that I'm probably not going to be mass producing these.

I tested the Female Sultry voice pack for DFC and it is wonderful!

 

It is so nice to finally hear the Devious Follower speak their lines! Outstanding work @finalfrog !

[Lupine00]

8 hours ago, Herowynne said:

It is so nice to finally hear the Devious Follower speak their lines! Outstanding work @finalfrog !

I finally back-converted all these to WAVs so I could check them out wholesale.

 

It sure is something!!!

 

If you have a follower with the voice type, or can swap the follower to use it, then there are really very cool.

 

Sure, there are some words that consistently come out strange and the overall tone is ... kind of fierce ... but that's not necessarily a bad thing, and the value of really hearing it is so huge.

 

It's a pity the dialogs are written for reading, not for speech.

For spoken dialog, I'd probably change some of them to be more characterful, and less informative.

 

As noted above, I didn't find any clues as to why some dialogs don't convert easily.

@finalfrog if you could point me at a handful of specific problem dialogs, I might see something. Or it could just be s Skyrim bug that can't be helped.

[Seeker999]

@finalfrog "I still had to go through and generate a ton of .lip files manually. Until I can find a solution for that I'm probably not going to be mass producing these. "

 

I understand. I'm going to look at your video and see if I can figure out how to do it myself, but if you do find an easier solution, I would love a male voice. I try to only have male followers so, sadly, I can't take advantage of your efforts. I appreciate what you've brought to the table so far and thanks for making a video.

[finalfrog]

Feeling too drained to play any games tonight, so I guess I'll take a shot at a male voice, probably MaleOrc. It'll give me a chance to get a list of the lines which are having issues and produce something for people to use. ?

 

Edit: For the last two packs I was careful to only allow lines that were definitely said by followers and not onlookers or other NPCs whose dialogue conditions the follower also fulfilled and avoided ones which wouldn't apply to the gender of the follower voice. To save time this time around I'm going to just generate voices for everything which the creation kit thinks it would be possible to say. The "down-side" of this (if you decide to see it as such) is that most other NPCs which share the voice type of the follower will also become voice acted.

[finalfrog]

@lupine00 Here's a full list of all the responses which don't generate a .lip automatically

manualLips.txt

[finalfrog]

Devious Followers - Male Orc Voice Pack.7zHere's the finished Male Orc pack. The slowest part of manual lip file generation is the menus, so generating them for more than one voice type at the same time isn't much slower than generating them for one. I think I'll just generate voices for all the voice types I haven't done yet and do the manual lip file generation all at once. Similar to the orc pack this would voice all the NPCs, not just the followers, so it would be a sort of Full Voice Pack.

[finalfrog]

Trying out a new solution for doing this en-mass. I'm skipping Astrid/Valerica because I don't believe they're every a follower or an NPC you're likely to have doing any DF interactions. I could probably remove Maven as well, but there's a better chance of an interaction since she hangs out in a town and sometimes wanders around, plus who knows there's probably a mod which turns her into a follower.

 

Also yes, I will include males as well. This is just as far as I got setting it up before I had to turn in for the night.

 

Edit: Spent some time tweaking pronunciation to find something that worked fairly well across all the voices. I was going to generate voices for all the NPC voicetypes supported by xVASynth but I've decided to drop Astrid/Valerica and MaleSoldier because a lot of the lines just sounded like a drunk robot slurring their lines unintelligibly. FemaleCondescending is also pretty questionable, but I'm keeping it since it sounds like the robot is sobering up a little. I think there's just not enough varied samples of those voices for the model to really make anything worth while. I'm gonna trigger the batch (39180 lines!!!) when I go to bed and let it work overnight.

[keitsoru]

6 minutes ago, finalfrog said:

Trying out a new solution for doing this en-mass. I'm skipping Astrid/Valerica because I don't believe they're every a follower or an NPC you're likely to have doing any DF interactions. I could probably remove Maven as well, but there's a better chance of an interaction since she hangs out in a town and sometimes wanders around, plus who knows there's probably a mod which turns her into a follower.

 

Also yes, I will include males as well. This is just as far as I got setting it up before I had to turn in for the night.

Frog, you are doing God's work. Thank you so much.

[Richard1234]

Wow, looking forward to checking out the voiced follower dialogue. Nice work Frog!

[keitsoru]

Hey, so, running in to a bit of an issue. I'm on SE. I have tried both the unofficial SE conversion, and tried converting the version here. When I try to have my follower handle licenses, nothing happens. No licenses, no debt. However, the dialogue topics reflect that my follower is indeed handling my licenses.

I tried having the follower stop managing licenses, and I get the normal response. The option to ask what the situation is remains. I ask what the situation is, and I get the slave dialogue. This is with the update you posted Tuesday, which you claimed should have fixed it, so I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

I am on the most recent beta of SLS. I have the options for handling licenses, and forced handling checked in DF. I have All licenses except Clothing and Freedom enabled.

[blacksw]

14 hours ago, keitsoru said:

Hey, so, running in to a bit of an issue. I'm on SE. I have tried both the unofficial SE conversion, and tried converting the version here. When I try to have my follower handle licenses, nothing happens. No licenses, no debt. However, the dialogue topics reflect that my follower is indeed handling my licenses.

I tried having the follower stop managing licenses, and I get the normal response. The option to ask what the situation is remains. I ask what the situation is, and I get the slave dialogue. This is with the update you posted Tuesday, which you claimed should have fixed it, so I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

I am on the most recent beta of SLS. I have the options for handling licenses, and forced handling checked in DF. I have All licenses except Clothing and Freedom enabled.

 

have you gone near one of the towns you can buy licences at after asking for it to be managed? eg. Riften, Whiterun etc.  You don't need to enter the town, just get near and then you should get the licences.

 

I've asked to have my licences managed in Winterhold before, but until I travelled to Windhelm I didn't get the actual licences/debt. but they appeared standing at the wagon.

[Saviorsrd]

Not sure this was ever brought up.  I couldn't find anything in the thread, but my Search-fu isn't great this late at night and there's no note of it in the compatibility section.  Also not sure if it can be fixed.

 

When you use FNIS Sexy Move, the Level 9 slot is overwritten by the crawling animation from this mod, which is what results in the occasional reports of "This is making me crawl all the time."

[Lupine00]

12 minutes ago, Saviorsrd said:

When you use FNIS Sexy Move, the Level 9 slot is overwritten by the crawling animation from this mod, which is what results in the occasional reports of "This is making me crawl all the time."

I use it, and I never noticed this. Maybe I'm not very observant? Or it might also require some other condition to be true.

I'll see if I can reproduce it.

[Lupine00]

On 5/6/2021 at 10:58 PM, keitsoru said:

I ask what the situation is, and I get the slave dialogue. This is with the update you posted Tuesday, which you claimed should have fixed it, so I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

I'm not sure about your broader problem. @blacksw suggests one explanation. There could be other causes, so this needs a bit more data.

If you need to debug it, I can offer some suggestions, but it will be a process. If you stick with it, we will likely work it out.

 

 

The thing I want to address first is the slave dialog. Why are you seeing it? 

I investigated...

 

The distributed ESP still has the (old) wrong condition!

I don't know how this happened (yet), as the version on my dev box does have the correct condition, and the process that makes the release zips is almost completely automated.

So, probably some mistake I made when updating the release directory for 2-14-2.

 

Update:

The ESP in the distribution is not the updated ESP. It's missing multiple changes, some of which weren't even made in the CK.

I can't see the mistake I could have made to get this result, but haste is the enemy of speed...

 

I will release an update It will still be 2-14-2, but the date will be different.

I've got rid of the circlet change, and I'm going to get rid of the faction edits, as that is actually more annoying when you want to merge.

 

The updated ESP should be significantly less bothersome to properly merge.

 

Update 2:

New ESP is up.

[keitsoru]

25 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I'm not sure about your broader problem. @blacksw suggests one explanation. There could be other causes, so this needs a bit more data.

If you need to debug it, I can offer some suggestions, but it will be a process. If you stick with it, we will likely work it out.

 

 

The thing I want to address first is the slave dialog. Why are you seeing it? 

I investigated...

 

The distributed ESP still has the (old) wrong condition!

I don't know how this happened (yet), as the version on my dev box does have the correct condition, and the process that makes the release zips is almost completely automated.

So, probably some mistake I made when updating the release directory for 2-14-2.

Blacksw was right in terms of the licenses. I had started in Winterhold with the intent of joining the College. Started in Windhelm instead and worked fine.

Glad this brought the issue with the slave dialogue to your attention, though. :3