Sexlab Survival

[Yukitemi]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Risking getting enslaved for turning in a quest is a bit extreme.

There can be other outcomes of that tho. Like keeping armbinder on or sex... or both. And it could be as a punishment for being impatient and knocking at someones door at night just to talk.

 

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Npcs should be able to refuse which will mean you'll just have to wait until morning.

They are able to refuse when I ask to sleep? Coz it never happened im my game.

1 hour ago, Bushi Neko said:

Why?

Um... licensing in this mod is like 10k? Tolls? Devious Followers dept? Other mods that offer escape from devices for money?

 

1 hour ago, Bushi Neko said:

A simple solution.

Don't go to a house at night after normal lock time, and don't agree to spend night.

Wait and go in day..

Simple and not immersive to stay like a tree at someone's house for 10 hours.

I'm not talking about game breaking issues here.

[Yukitemi]

1 hour ago, Corsayr said:

You can use Skytweak to reduce the speed at which you gain speech XP. 

Oh yes thank you.

 

 

damn post didn't merge >_<

[bloodylord1997]

I have some problem with this mod. Everything works well except for the magic license. Whenever the enforcer try  to equip a magic chain on me, the game crash. Is this normal?

[Monoman1]

17 minutes ago, bloodylord1997 said:

I have some problem with this mod. Everything works well except for the magic license. Whenever the enforcer try  to equip a magic chain on me, the game crash. Is this normal?

Is this Skyrim SE?

I think there might be problems with the physics chain collars and HDT in SE?

You can remove the physics chain collars from survival. Look at the FAQ section. 

 

If it's not SE then maybe something is wrong with your install of HDT. 

45 minutes ago, Yukitemi said:

They are able to refuse when I ask to sleep? Coz it never happened im my game.

No. Asking to stay the night will always succeed as it's a supposed to be a desperate plea for help with possible enslavement consequences. So it's not something you should be asking for on a regular basis. 

[Yukitemi]

16 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

No. Asking to stay the night will always succeed as it's a supposed to be a desperate plea for help with possible enslavement consequences. So it's not something you should be asking for on a regular basis. 

So what about lighter outcomes I talked about?

Sorry if I sound pushy I just trying to convince you about something I liked in your mod

[Monoman1]

SL Survival - Dawnguard Inequality Patch.esp

 

Fix for dawnguard/inequality/brown face bug. This is probably only for people that don't run a vampire appearance overhaul of some sorts and just use dawnguard for vampire appearance. 

If you don't use inequality and don't want an extra esp then you can just delete the race records from survival in TesEdit. Inequality is the only thing attached to races. For the moment at least.   

24 minutes ago, Yukitemi said:

So what about lighter outcomes I talked about?

Sorry if I sound pushy I just trying to convince you about something I liked in your mod

Sure, more ideas are always welcome. Just don't hold your breath. It's a matter of free time, interest and prioritization. 

Right now I'm mostly working on fixes and cleaning things up. There's more ideas and stuff over on the dev blog: https://www.loverslab.com/blogs/entry/9431-sl-survival-dev-blog/

 

 

[Bushi Neko]

2 hours ago, Yukitemi said:

Snipped

I think your just looking at how you want it to be, from the eyes of a developed character, and that's that. 

Try it as a level 1 default settings, especially coupled with DD family mods, you may find more to entertain you.

 

Do visit the develop blog. As @Monoman1 linked. You will probably find it interesting.

 

[Siudhne]

On 11/15/2019 at 6:55 PM, Bushi Neko said:

But you had tolls active...

Toll evasion gives you a grace to sneak out in, but you gotta come back.

But yeah, it cutting off the sleep is not cool.. Wonder why tho? I got lifted out of city before and that counted as evasion, but I slept well.. until I got back to town anyway...

Yes indeed, tolls were active. Took me a while to find the link though.

I think sleeping in beds works without problem (and probably works in cities, too), just sleeping on the group is blocked.

[Yukitemi]

1 hour ago, Bushi Neko said:

I think your just looking at how you want it to be, from the eyes of a developed character, and that's that. 

Try it as a level 1 default settings, especially coupled with DD family mods, you may find more to entertain you.

I don't understand what are you talking about. My idea is relevant to any level. Also I did start new games plenty of times with DD mods and more.

[Lupine00]

11 hours ago, Bushi Neko said:

Why? I never equated any of these types mods with making money... I try to eliminate making money because without hardcore modding it's everywhere... 

Speech apart. If you have introduced mods to make money rare, then it will not be everywhere, but whether it is or not, you still want to obtain money to pay for your licenses and followers and tolls and food and weapon repairs and armor refitting, and all the other cash sinks that you purposely introduced - and that most people on this thread have introduced (because SLS is full of that stuff).

 

Once you've created all those needs for cash, you must fulfil them, or as Monoman put it "be rubbish".

 

 

I have experience gain on all skills turned down a lot so I don't really need to adjust speech gain rate there - but I still trained speech on purpose because it makes money and it would simply be stupid not to do it if I need a lot of money to not "be rubbish". If I don't train speech, it's exactly the same as deciding to fail. Just like setting a DF day-rate that you can't possibly afford no matter what you do. I can afford mine, just not if I want to have licenses or pay the toll.

 

It's one thing to create certain rules for yourself, such as, "I won't use a forge" or "I won't learn enchanting". Those things don't impact directly on your number one concern, which is money, and they have immersive excuses. They don't turn the game upside down either.

 

I suppose you could remove speech trainers from the game entirely, and set the speech XP gain rate to almost nothing, to avoid gaining any speech worth mentioning, but simply having a moderate speech skill doesn't make you unbalanced, or rich, or an instant winner. Most of the speech difficulty checks in vanilla are set up to you can make them easily because it moves the plot along better, not because it sets the game into easy mode.

 

The benefits you get from speech with vendors are beneficial in a cash-tight economy but not game changing; they amount to a little bonus cash, and if your game is set up like mine, that bonus isn't enough anyway. Even on a good day, my loot won't pay for licenses, tolls, and followers, and solicitation would be an exceedingly bad way to make that money too - lots of reasons for that - but the point is ... why introduce mechanics that make you need money, then remove a basic lever you can pull as part of game-play to help make money. Speech doesn't jump to 100 instantly. My character is exactly level 40 right now, and has a speech skill of 55 or so. Buying the speech perks is another lever you can pull. Refusing to do that also limits your cash by choice. Why would you do that if your biggest problem is cash shortage?

 

Why would you remove those levers? They are part of the game. They are something you can do to improve your situation. They are a thing you can improve over time as a reward for play. Perks in particular are a trade-off. Why turn off that choice?

 

For people who simply want to turn off everything you can do to improve, I guess the answer is remove all trainers and lock XP gain at 0%. Job done. You're stuck at level 1 forever and can't improve any skills. I guess you can still buy spell books. Maybe that's too easy. Better remove those too.

 

 

Surely, the goal of controlling cash is to improve game-play? To make things like gaining speech-skill more meaningful, to make defeating enemies more meaningful, to add a sense of acheivement when you can afford to buy a house, or excitement when you find useful loot?

 

If you just turn everything off and deny yourself everything, you are removing game-play not adding it.

 

This demonisation of speech skill is absurd. What next? We shouldn't have 1H Melee skill because it makes monsters die? We should disable magic because it devalues unarmed combat?

 

 

As a side issue, I use SLD to modify my speech skill considerably based on arousal etc. and it ends up as important to me whether my PC was recently raped by Chaurus tentacles or is wearing a collar, than whether I have a low or high base skill.

 

 

This entire issue of speech checks becoming pivotal is created by one busted mod interaction: Simply Knock. SK+SLS is what's wrong here, not speech skills, or speech checks, or gaining speech skill from bargaining. And as there's almost no need to ever use trigger that particular narrow broken scenario, the entire debate is based on a non-problem.

 

 

Now, maybe there's an issue with speech skill in that using and increasing it is risk-free.

FMEA "fixed" this issue for trade skills, but not for speech.

 

If you want to be constructive, come up with mechanics that make using speech skill something that requires skill, and that has a risk reward balance.

 

But simply playing the "my game is better because I made it harder and refuse to take in-game actions that would make it easier" card is something that's easy to misconstrue. Mostly, when posters raise those points, they simply mean they personally have a certain position or experience, and no more than that, but when it's presented as a general rule that should be obeyed, it becomes a kind of perverse virtue signalling.

[Lupine00]

To raise another general point, I think sometimes the reasoning gets separated from the original intent with some ideas.

 

The primary point of the "weak girl" game is to create a bigger obstacle to overcome; to enhance gameplay and create a sense of achievement.

The secondary point is to enjoy novel or unexpected failure modes when trying to do win under more difficult conditions.

 

While there's no single view on what the "weak girl" game is, it's based primarily on starting with a very weak position and shortage of resources, and in a setting where obtaining resources and strengthening your position are harder than in normal Skyrim. Not impossible, but harder.

 

 

There are other games too, which aren't as much discussed, perhaps because they are more obvious.

• The scarcity game - resources are simply very hard to come by and day-to-day food and maintenance become an added difficulty in the game.
• The enslavement ant-lion - you're constantly trying to edge around slippery slopes into enslavement pit-traps, where enslavement means enduring a huge progress blocker, that could possibly turn into a bad end.
• The hard combat game - where you spend all your time running away from too-hard fights and have to be super-vigilant for ambushes - does not work if you make all the enemies run faster than you!
• Tough environment game - Frostfall turned up to max, poison water, unaffordable carriages, etc.
• The re-levelled game - makes your travel and scenario choices different by controlling what areas are easy or rewarding at certain levels.

There are surely other game types I didn't think of, but it's not that important to have a complete list.

 

One key point is that you can combine any types of game you can come up with to make hybrid games.

All games are in some sense hybrids of different modifications with different intents.

 

SLS plays to "weak girl", scarcity and enslavement traps all at once, and I believe Monoman likes hard combat too, but the point is that all these features do not have to be combined in one game. Combining them excessively does not necessarily make a game better either; it simply stops you taking an extreme approach in other areas. Clearly, it's not all or nothing, these features can be mixed in proportions. Make combat too hard, you might need to dial back on enslavement threats, etc.

 

Some features naturally complement each other, others balance against each other.

 

If you choose to increase scarcity, then you probably have to ease back on some "weak girl" features.

In contrast, making combat harder, especially at low levels, or only for the PC, enhance the weak girl challenge.

(This is why SLD doesn't care about modifying NPCs, it modifiers the player only - crippling all females simply limits your follower choice).

 

You can remove the entire "weak girl" ethos, but adding all these other things leaves you with a weaker PC, that has no rationale, but I'd suggest the key to the weak-girl start is that it's a very hard start that eases off a bit as you progress. Eventually you reach a point where the game is relatively playable, but you have to earn it.

 

For those that want an easy start, followed by increasing difficulty, re-levelling is the most direct approach, and messing around with the economy is trying to add a second game to Skyrim that will never have great gameplay.

[Monoman1]

@Lupine00

Regarding speech. I'd agree mostly. My only problem with speech checks is how they work internally. They seem to either always pass or always fail depending on if you're over a certain threshold. It's a bit binary. 

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

And as there's almost no need to ever use trigger that particular narrow broken scenario

Have you a specific bug report? I'm not aware that it is broken. It is a utility, to be used sparingly. Nothing more. For the moment at least. It is narrow. 

You seem to have some issue with SK? The only problem I have with SK is the use of OnCrosshairRefChange() which I've found can sometimes cause stack dumps. But other than that I find it to be a useful, immersive little mod. 

 

Misc questions:

1. If I was to allow the player to configure sleep deprivation penalties/bonuses, how would that affect you?

2. Have you a test copy of DF 2.06 with debt/resistance mod events so I can test out my scripts? 

[Lupine00]

9 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Fix for dawnguard/inequality/brown face bug. This is probably only for people that don't run a vampire appearance overhaul of some sorts and just use dawnguard for vampire appearance. 

This is already fixed if you made your Merge Patch correctly, right?

[Clea Strange]

I like to play the weak girl I like the idea in a game and I have a profile for that on MO, I use this with SL adventures, devious followers, sexist guards and various other sex mods including those where a female gets taken advantage of

[Lupine00]

54 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Have you a specific bug report? I'm not aware that it is broken. It is a utility, to be used sparingly. Nothing more. For the moment at least. It is narrow.

What I mean is that SK was invented to solve the problem of stupid NPCs locking their doors so you have to wait until morning to talk to them about some stupid quest thing that they probably consider important, and would likely interrupt their dinner for.

 

By creating a scenario where its turned upside down, and now its a CoC-style "let's see if I can get myself enslaved" game, some tiny number of players are frustrated that it's simply a roll of the dice.

 

They appear to also be confused that if they take the desperation path, they can't talk to the NPC like they wanted to. 

You have to admit that this probably isn't obvious until you have tried both paths, or happened to follow this discussion?

 

 

And what I mean by narrow, is that this has - apparently - impacted approximately one person, ever.

 

 

I do - sort of - have a problem with the SK mechanics (and dependency, I'd rather just not have it in my game), it's just a wasted ESP slot as far as I'm concerned...

 

But that's because the SLS desperation scenario is so harsh and simplistic. There's not enough there to justify using an ESP slot. That said, I can probably just merge SK into SLS?

 

If it took more account of your standing with the NPC, and the town in general...

If it wasn't simply "always put in an armbinder"...

If it wasn't simply a roll of the dice to be enslaved, but took into account "things you actually do" while staying in their house...

 

Some thoughts on alternate mechanics below...

Spoiler

If this was CoC or something, it would play more like...

 

First, if they know you, there's no bondage.

Unless they know you're a criminal, in which case they might demand ... who knows what? Definitely extreme protections against you.

 

Second, if they don't know you, you can try and persuade them, and if you fail, you can still choose to refuse the bondage, in which case you end up back out on the street.

 

How you're dressed and your position in the town should impact their decision too. 

Yes, you can be a known felon, but you also might be a thane, or have done things for people in the town.

You might be wearing a slooty half-naked bikini, or you might be dressed in rich clothes, or suspicious magical robes that hint at secret dark rituals.

Maybe you fought against them in the civil war? Or maybe you fought with them?

There's more to base this on than the lame morality score.

 

If the occupant is a lone female, chance of bondage request is much higher, due to concerns you are a threat.

 

Assuming you end up in bondage, it might vary somewhat. Mittens or a hobble dress and cuffs are also options.

Or a pet suit, particularly if dealing with a horny host.

 

If dealing with a couple, the female might insist you wear chastity gear to prevent you seducing her loyal spouse.

 

Or in some cases, a couple will be a kinky duo, who trick you into bondage then rape you until you're catatonic.

 

Whether or not you are in bondage, you are probably propositioned for sex by a male occupant.

If you're aroused, you will be more likely to be propositioned.

 

If you are highly aroused and refuse sex, a male may be offended, and rape you anyway.

 

If there's a resident couple, and the male propositions sex, and if you agree, the female will be jealous.

 

If you accept sex and make the female jealous, she is more likely to take action against you.

 

If there's a lone female, she might demand sex, and if you refuse, she will be angry.

If you're bound, she will only rape you if she has a bad morality rating.

 

If a kinky couple, the demand for sex will be high, and refusal will result in anger or rape.

 

In the morning, if you were raped, or there is jealousy, or anger, then you have a risk of enslavement.

Chance builds up each time you use this. At first the chance is very low.

 

Maybe chance builds until the enslavement occurs and only enslavement resets it.

Or maybe that can only apply if you are bound?

 

If you masturbate, or steal, or look in their containers, residents get angry.

 

In either case, enslavement only happens if you were bound ... but ... if you previously made a female jealous or angry, she will insist you are bound on next visit and take revenge then (if ever).

Alternatively, if you aren't bound, unhappy residents may call the guard.

A jealous female may accuse you of stealing (and plant items on you while you sleep).

 

If you have a milk mod, a female may expect you to drink her milk. Refusal will offend.

Males or females may want to drink your milk. Acceptance may make them like you.

 

This means you can actually make a LOT of use of this feature, and it becomes a useful crutch. But push too far, and you'll get enslaved, which is a fairly major thing. You also need to decide decide what is less risky - lone males, females, or couples. It's not obvious, but you get to explore the options.

 

Using while aroused is always more risky.

Don't get invited in, then refuse sex, then masturbate and look through all their cupboards, as that is almost certain to result in trouble.

 

If raped at any point, the chance of enslavement at the end is much higher.

Also take a hit to willpower.

 

Trouble varies, from a fine, to prison, to enslavement, to being robbed, to being forced to use skooma, or drink milk, or simply getting left in bondage.

 

 

As it is, any time I could use this feature, I'd go to the inn and "work" instead. It's less risky than chancing enslavement for no great benefit.

In fact, the enslavement risk is on a par with simply being arrested for loitering - though that has never happened to me, and possibly doesn't work in my game.

 

But if I had to choose between more kennel-like-locations and improving this, I'd pick kennels.

But I don't want to overstate it. My care factor here is super-low. Like I say, this is narrow; I don't get value out of it, but if others do, great.

 

 

If it were better it would be less narrow, but I don't see it getting deep improvements, so it will remain a much-ignored feature for me.

 

 

As a final caveat - speech checks as implemented in Skyrim can be replaced with any logic you like. Just run a function to determine the outcome instead of using built-in speech checks. Simple pass/fail problem solved.

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

speech checks as implemented in Skyrim can be replaced with any logic you like. Just run a function to determine the outcome instead of using built-in speech checks. Simple pass/fail problem solved.

Totally agree.  I've never cared for Skyrim's speech check system being implemented as a simple comparison of speech against a threshold value.  At a given speech level, one always passes or always fails a specific check.  I prefer a bit of uncertainty, with a chance to succeed even if the odds are long, or fail (within reason) a simple check. (some things.  If as the player I know from past experience that I have zero chance of success, there's no point even trying.  Some mods do run a random number through a speech-based formula to determine persuasion success.  It does tempt the player to save/reload to pass any check (that's a player decision) but that doesn't invalidate the approach.  It's not the norm, but I like it better that way. 

[Bushi Neko]

Well, pages of speeches aside ' wat I think '.

1. SK integration has caused confusion in the idea of it.

2. SK integration has caused quite the variance of opinion and discussion. 

3. A few of us have apparently misunderstood each other in post and replies primarily around SK portion.

4. A few people have expected game altering events to develop dropping SLS into an ongoing game, or been understood to mean that. 

5. Lupine you talk more than I do.  

6. It's not better to do it one way vs the other. It's examples of how to do it one way vs the other.  I tend to offer examples. VS ' do it's '. 

7 - 10 Nothingness. 

 

My opinion and I ll let it lie regarding SK integration.  It's another danger A vs danger B option, that generally is used rarely. It never was, nor intended to offer a way around the quest system and night.  It's to present a choice of being so broke and desperate you risk the ill actions of NPC vs hiding somewhere to sleep due to rape or sleeping in the street being a crime, or going to the underdeveloped kennel option.  Especially when you cannot afford the toll, and / or it's past curfew lockdown.  And yes. The basic use of speech is a joke system. It always was.  

[Lupine00]

20 minutes ago, Bushi Neko said:

It never was, nor intended to offer a way around the quest system and night.  It's to present a choice of being so broke and desperate you risk the ill actions of NPC vs hiding somewhere to sleep due to rape or sleeping in the street being a crime, or going to the underdeveloped kennel option.

In SLS perhaps ... but the original intent of the SK mod (not SLS) is to save the player some time and bother.

That is all. It's to stop you having to stand around waiting for the (potentially) narrow time-range that an NPC has their door open but is also at home.

 

What SLS has done with it is something completely different. Hence the confusion that has resulted over the dialog options.

 

20 minutes ago, Bushi Neko said:

Lupine you talk more than I do.

I write more than you do. Why does that matter?

 

I'm guessing that was in reference to my objections to the demonisation of speech as a skill in Skyrim?

I don't agree with those remarks, that amounted to a roundabout proposal that speech is some kind of cheat, shouldn't even exist, and that using it in your game is somehow impure.

[Bushi Neko]

2 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

In SLS perhaps ... but the original intent of the SK mod (not SLS) is to save the player some time and bother.

That is all. It's to stop you having to stand around waiting for the (potentially) narrow time-range that an NPC has their door open but is also at home.

 

What SLS has done with it is something completely different. Hence the confusion that has resulted over the dialog options.

 

 

That I totally agree with.

3 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I write more than you do. Why does that matter?

It does not. That was a gentle nudge. 

 

4 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I'm guessing that was in reference to my objections to the demonisation of speech as a skill in Skyrim?

I don't agree with those remarks, that amounted to a roundabout proposal that speech is some kind of cheat, shouldn't even exist, and that using it in your game is somehow impure.

Nope, it was in reference to what it was. A nudge that you and I have a tendency to frequent here often, you often give long post of technical or how to's as above. I tend to tell stories while shorter, more prolific.  I also don't agree that speech is cheating etc. But it is system that never felt right. While many many mods work on level issues, or how to offset challenges in game, speech has been often overlooked.  I generally and admit I used to pretty much ignore it.  Only when I tweaked things to the point that some parts really mattered did I pay it much notice. 

 

Don't worry. That was not passive aggression. I just ' presumed ' it would be a clear reference. 

[worik]

10 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Now, maybe there's an issue with speech skill in that using and increasing it is risk-free.

FMEA "fixed" this issue for trade skills, but not for speech.

? It did?

That sounds very promising, but I didn't notice that or how it "fixed" that ?

Though I agree, that it would be nice to do exactly that. There are indeed interested people who would like to raise another obstacle for both, the trading AND the speech "leveling"

 

[Lupine00]

1 minute ago, worik said:

That sounds very promising, but I didn't notice that or how it "fixed" that

I'm not sure how to read that...

 

FMEA makes alchemy, mining, enchanting and lockpicking harder to learn, and potentially hazardous.

 

It doesn't do much for smithing, but I think that was left alone because it's often needed to make the items from mods, and without it you can't have them.

[worik]

47 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I'm not sure how to read that...

Sorry, I jumped a bit and left out the link between my thoughts Extended version:

Right now, I am primarily thinking about the bartering/trading and leveling from that. And what could possibly go wrong if you fail at something.That's where your earlier comment made me think more about it.

 

23 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

FMEA makes alchemy, mining, enchanting and lockpicking harder to learn, and potentially hazardous.

That's what I meant. It does that ^ .

But it would be very welcome if we could come up with an (immersive!) obstacle to trading/barter or speech in general.

FMEA would feel the natural mod to go for that, but it should feel immersive. E.g. like it does with alchemy crafting. I The technical new thing for FMEA would be the need to hook into the dialogues e.g. into the bartering.

 

Now, once we have that, SLS would in consequence be a nice continuation on that thought, where a debuffed/impaired speech could make you feel the impact.

For those others who think that this is too much, the usual SLS could stay as it is and just keep it's flow.

 

If this technical thing is too strange from FMEA's course, SLS would be my next wish-candidate to put a feature like that into.

And storywise, we would still need to come up with some universal applicable and self-explanatory effects. The classic BOOOOM from FMEA doesn't sound convincing here

[Chunk McBeefsteak]

I'm really enjoying this mod, but do I have one suggestion/request.  Is it possible to have the kennel gate open at 6pm as well as 6am?  I'm playing as a vampire and I want somewhere to hide out and sleep during the day rather than the night.

 

(I did have a look over the scripts to see if I could do it myself but it throws up a ton of errors relating to FNISSMConfigMenu.psc, zadConfig.psc, and other scripts when I try to compile).

 

It might be nice to have that in the Simply Knock options as well.  People will let you spend the day in their house as long as you're properly restrained and they get to play with you for a bit when they get home from work.

 

The only slight issue I have is with the devices the kennel keeper puts on you when he lets you in.  He keeps putting me in a hobble dress - which effectively acts as a chastity device - then a couple of hours later comes down, adds a gag, and then tries to have sex with me.  Any way of switching hobble dresses for yokes or armbinders, or doing away with the arm restraints altogether?

[Hex Bolt]

2 hours ago, worik said:

Right now, I am primarily thinking about the bartering/trading and leveling from that. And what could possibly go wrong if you fail at something.

Unfortunately bartering doesn't seem a good fit for FMEA.   Alchemy, mining, and enchanting, have a physical (or magical) element that conceivably could be botched.  Mining and lock picking can be subject to traps, natural or otherwise.  Those things don't apply to bartering, so the immersive reason for a bad outcome isn't there.  How would one fail at bartering?  Get cheated?  Another aspect is that FMEA activities are generally optional.  You choose to open a lock or craft a potion.  But you must sell things, sooner or later.

 

The Trade and Barter mod does something with the "sooner or later", making it worthwhile to wait to sell in a larger city or to a merchant who'll treat you better.  In practice, if I'm at my load limit I'll sell the heavier items regardless of where I am, but I might hold on to valuable light items if I don't need money right away.  This introduces some choice, but only at the margin, and there's no bartering failure.

[Lupine00]

15 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

How would one fail at bartering?  Get cheated?

There are possibilities not far from suggestions I've made about vendors in the past...

• Vendor gives you a terrible price
• Vendor refuses to buy from you (cash locked to 0)
• Vendor refuses to sell to you (trade topic vanishes)
• Vendor so pissed off they tell other vendors not to trade with you
• Vendor reports you to the guard
• Vendor refuses to trade plus (some of) your goods become tagged as stolen
• Vendor takes all your stuff and pays nothing for it
• As above but vendor calls the guard on you
• Vendor has thugs jump you. You're robbed and wake up in a ditch somewhere
• Vendor has thugs jump you. You're robbed and enslaved.

 

In some cases you might have an option to try a speech check to wiggle out of some negative consequences. Fail that too and things are worse.

Double or nothing type mechanic, basically.