[AAF] Sexual Harassment (12/20/2024)

[sen4mi]

2 hours ago, vaultbait said:

 

You can run routines in timer events, and you can run loops with pauses inside other events too, the problem is that the tighter/more rapid your loops the more you hog the available operations for other scripts which are also trying to run things in parallel threads, which bogs down all script processing for everything and can lead to severe script lag because they all fight over the same global lock.

 

Yes...

 

Running once per frame was nice, and (when wrapped in appropriate conditionals) was a convenient way of building "event handlers".

 

FO4 has explicit support for building event handlers, but I don't see how to get at the necessary underlying plumbing.

 

2 hours ago, vaultbait said:

AAF already does something similar to cancel scenes that are too far from the player (10K units distance by default, configurable in AAF_settings.ini). I have no idea if that check also applies to the gathering phase or only once the animations are actually running. For that matter, I don't even know that StopScene will work during the gathering phase, or whether AAF will maybe still try to path the player to the previously determined location before processing the stop request.

 

And it's difficult to set up a test rig to try out different ideas, which makes progress slow here.

[vaultbait]

11 minutes ago, sen4mi said:

Running once per frame was nice, and (when wrapped in appropriate conditionals) was a convenient way of building "event handlers".

 

FO4 has explicit support for building event handlers, but I don't see how to get at the necessary underlying plumbing.

 

SUP F4SE adds some of this, like native Papyrus functions for SetGameMainLoopCallback(), RemoveFromGameMainLoopCallback() and SetEventHandler(). See the code comments in SUP_F4SE.psc for details.

 

Also I forgot, SUP F4SE adds an OnCellChange event!

 

Quote

-"OnCellChange" - fires when player enters a Cell(also fires on savegame load).Passes entered Cell to the callback. Function callback should have following structure - "Function MyCallback(Cell NewCell).Accepts Forms as filters.

 

Of course, whether mod authors want to add yet another F4SE plugin as a hard requirement is a different question.

[twistedtrebla]

I think the cleanest solution is if AAF just froze all the actors in place, as soon as the function is called to start an animation. But thats beyond my control.

[twistedtrebla]

I've felt that we were sorely lacking a standardized way to detect how revealing the player's clothes are. It was kind of lame that the player could wear an ugly full-on farmer clothes, and it'll be considered as equally clothed as a bikini, based on the lame armor slot system.

 

After all these years, I got tired of waiting around, so I took a crack at creating a framework for it: Skimpy Armor Keywords Resource.

 

And an update that will make use of it

 

v1.18.0

• NEW: Skimpy Armor Keyword Resource (SAKR) integration
  • If SAKR is not installed, mod will fall back to the existing legacy slot based system for detecting if the player is naked or clothed. But it will always be binary: player is either fully naked, or fully clothed, and no inbetween. "Skimpy rating" that the mod utilizes in various places will default to 0 (fully clothed)
• NEW: If the player is naked, or has prostitute or worse reputation, or is wearing clothes with a skimpy rating of 60 or higher (requires SAKR), NPCs will approach the player and start a prostitute dialogue
  • If the player agrees to prostitution, they will need to agree on the price with the "John". This is sort of a mini-game, as the player's "market value" depends on 3 factors: sex reputation, NPC's impression of the player, and player's current skimpy rating.
  • To get the most money, the player needs to ask for a price that is close to what the NPC thinks the player is worth.
  • If the player asks for too much, the NPC gets upset and will counter for a far lower amount. 
  • If the player asks for too little, then they're leaving caps on the table.
• ADDED: Various comments regarding the player's skimpy rating
  • If the player is wearing clothing that reveals too much of the breast, the NPCs will comment about the player's tits
  • If the player is wearing clothing that reveals too much of the butt, the NPCs will comment about the player's ass
  • If the palyer is wearing clothing thats overall too revealing, the NPCs will also comment on that
• CHANGED: NPCs are more likely to slap the player if the player is wearing skimpy clothes. And they are much more likely (up to 3 times) to slap if the player is wearing clothes that reveal the butt too much.
• CHANGED: Flirt approaches are more likely to happen if the player is wearing skimpy clothes.
• CHANGED: The aggressive dialogue ("my cock needs your attention", etc) for sex approach now only happens under 2 circumstances: 1) player is wearing shock collar from Real Handcuffs, or 2) player is fully naked with a slut reputation. If neither of these are true, then player will get either the "fake doctor" scenario, or the new prostitution scenario.
• CHANGED: Removed the "no one seems to care that you are naked" notification. Instead, added an MCM button under "naked check" section, which you can use to quickly debug if the naked armor slot setting is correctly marking the player as naked or clothed.

[ChandraArgentis]

Could we get a toggle for reversing luck for submissive PCs?

The idea being that if the player is submissive, their luck works as if they were unlucky, rather than lucky, applying a negative modifier to the usual luck chances for a "good" outcome.

[sen4mi]

The keywords framework really demands some mechanism to apply keywords on existing armors.

 

A quick look at my mods suggests that I have well over a thousand pieces of armor from a bunch of different mods, and that they're something of a disorganized mess in terms of what goes where in the file system.

 

So, my general thought here is that adding keywords could benefit from tools to quickly list the armors, and their "logical structure" and maybe how much skin they expose.

 

First, though... let's see if I understand the structure which actually gets used here:

 

In a plugin (esm/esl/esp), an armor record (ARMO) has armor addons (ARMA) which reference .nif files (for Male and Female body types, for some list of races (but people generally do not play synths, ghouls or supermutants, so those can't wear a lot of armors)).

 

The ARMO record also lists object modifier records (OMOD) which detail stuff like colors, attachment points, keyword records (KYWD) and material swap records (MSWP).

 

And, there's something in the ARMO records which can somehow make keywords be conditional on which armor addon(s) are present. I do not adequately understand that mechanism.

 

Of course, .nif files get used for a lot of things -- particle effects, terrain, ground models, and even armor. And, they can be loose files or they can be stuffed in .ba2 files. But if we come to them from the plugin records, we have a pretty good idea of what they're relevant to.

 

Meanwhile, in the armor .nif files (which might be partially overridden by information from MSWP or color information in the OMOD), that's where the mesh covers the skin of the character's body. (And I think we can ignore head and hand armors, here). Mostly we can ignore textures and materials, unless the armor is transparent (which, ok, happens a lot, especially with skimpy armors -- one popular technique early after release of the game is to make parts of an outfit transparent).

 

Also, from an automation perspective, bodyslide sliders tend to identify which part of the body would be covered by a nif "branch". (niflib, from the nifskope people, would expose this branch structure and the "bones" which would be used to animate the mesh, so that might be a better approach -- I am not aware of anything like niflib which supports bodyslide files.)

 

------------------------

 

Or, hypothetically: plugins list armors, which list nif models and associated textures. Nif models approximately identify anatomy and textures are where we see transparency. If we put this all together, we could get an "exposed percent estimate" for boobs and hips and whatever else, and we could distinguish between pants and skirts. This wouldn't be perfect, but it would be a good first draft effort which could be applied to "individual installed mods". (In quotes because that part would be like FO4Edit's loading mechanism, where a mod has dependencies which also are relevant.)

 

------------------------

 

Does that sound close to right?

 

If I've goofed, can someone point out annoying parts of these goofs?

 

[vaultbait]

2 hours ago, sen4mi said:

Does that sound close to right?

 

Another nuance you haven't touched on: ARMA records have two mesh fields, one for each gender (MOD2, MOD3). In some cases, the male and female meshes can differ significantly (an example I gave in the SAKR support topic is using the CCO replacer for vanilla female outfits and the BodyTalk3 built-in replacer for vanilla male outfits). If you want to try and precalculate body mesh coverage from clothing and armor meshes, it would be good to at least annotate them by gender.

Edited March 31, 2023 by vaultbait

[twistedtrebla]

2 hours ago, sen4mi said:

Does that sound close to right?

 

If I've goofed, can someone point out annoying parts of these goofs?

 

I'm not sure if you are describing a method to auto classify and add SAKR keywords to armors, or are describing a completely different framework for checking the player's "skimpiness". Either way, I think what you are describing is way beyond my understanding of how these things work.

 

If you'd like to take a crack at it, then by all means. I'm more than happy to use whatever system is objectively superior. As far as this mod is concerned, and for my personal enjoyment, all I want is an easy (and performant) way to check if the player is naked, and if not, how skimpy they are dressed. The "skimpiness" is a bit subjective - some people really dig armpits while others don't. So preferably there would be a way for the user to customize how skimpy each body part is if exposed.

[sen4mi]

1 hour ago, twistedtrebla said:

I'm not sure if you are describing a method to auto classify and add SAKR keywords to armors, or are describing a completely different framework for checking the player's "skimpiness". Either way, I think what you are describing is way beyond my understanding of how these things work.

 

If you'd like to take a crack at it, then by all means. I'm more than happy to use whatever system is objectively superior. As far as this mod is concerned, and for my personal enjoyment, all I want is an easy (and performant) way to check if the player is naked, and if not, how skimpy they are dressed. The "skimpiness" is a bit subjective - some people really dig armpits while others don't. So preferably there would be a way for the user to customize how skimpy each body part is if exposed.

 

While conceptually, something might be built to work differently (and the concept I described of course does use a variety of mechanisms), I think your keyword approach would still be necessary:

 

The stuff I am talking about would be too slow to run during most of a game session. And, if done right, the results should not change from one game session to another.

 

But, also, I am thinking of something which would be a crude approximation and being able to tweak the results seems important.

 

(It's also beyond me, for now... but maybe I can figure out how to extract enough of the needed pieces of information to report on which armors seem to need which keywords. Maybe. And certainly not today. I probably need some kind of FO4Edit script to list the armors and addons and nifs+uv textures or some such, for a plugin. And I probably need some kind of python script to report on skimpiness for a body part for each of those nif+uv texture combos. And then there's building the conditionals and keywords ... if I get that far and if I do enough manual work building keyword patches for mods, maybe I'll have a good idea there...)

Edited April 1, 2023 by sen4mi

[Oldwolf58]

Ok went back several pages and don't see this happening to anyone else. I installed 1.18.0 and now no sex scenes trigger. I get the dialogues that in the previous versions initiated sex and even got a proposition as a prostitute but now after the line the harasser simply walks away and things continue as if they never spoke to me. Any Ideas, I dropped back to version 1.17.4 and everything works as it should.

[N.Gamma]

I think your mod is really great. Thanks for that.

Could you maybe add some mouth movement and voice files?

[deathmorph]

In version 1.17.4 I entered index 20 in the blacklist. My actress was kidnapped and given a collar through Raiderpet. So that I can get rid of the handcuffs and be able to act at least a little, I let the harassment dialogue continue. It also worked. Only with the difference that the collar was removed despite the blacklist. It was the end for my actress. A pity 
A bug or did I miss something?

[xyzxyz]

Can we get the prostitution approach without the skimpy framework?

[twistedtrebla]

9 hours ago, xyzxyz said:

Can we get the prostitution approach without the skimpy framework?

Yea, either be naked, or have a prostitute (or worse) reputation

[twistedtrebla]

21 hours ago, Oldwolf58 said:

Ok went back several pages and don't see this happening to anyone else. I installed 1.18.0 and now no sex scenes trigger. I get the dialogues that in the previous versions initiated sex and even got a proposition as a prostitute but now after the line the harasser simply walks away and things continue as if they never spoke to me. Any Ideas, I dropped back to version 1.17.4 and everything works as it should.

 

Can you be more specific? Which dialogue tree was this? Like, what did the NPC say?

[Oldwolf58]

1 hour ago, twistedtrebla said:

 

Can you be more specific? Which dialogue tree was this? Like, what did the NPC say?

First time it happened was a standard hypno approach, it went thru the whole speech that should have led to sex but at the end when the sex scene should have fired nothing happened they just walked away and I was still in full control of my character as if there was no scene call sent to AAF. The second time it was in the Cambridge police station and I was propositioned by the asshole Rhys but after he offered me 50 caps for sex he just walked away and again no sex scene initiated. Sorry not sure what the exact line he used was.

[twistedtrebla]

30 minutes ago, Oldwolf58 said:

First time it happened was a standard hypno approach, it went thru the whole speech that should have led to sex but at the end when the sex scene should have fired nothing happened they just walked away and I was still in full control of my character as if there was no scene call sent to AAF. The second time it was in the Cambridge police station and I was propositioned by the asshole Rhys but after he offered me 50 caps for sex he just walked away and again no sex scene initiated. Sorry not sure what the exact line he used was.

Interesting. The hypno approach didn't get touched at all in 1.18. Was this on an upgrade on an existing save? Maybe something got corrupted during the upgrade.

[Oldwolf58]

2 hours ago, twistedtrebla said:

Interesting. The hypno approach didn't get touched at all in 1.18. Was this on an upgrade on an existing save? Maybe something got corrupted during the upgrade.

It was a seperate MO2 install of 1.18.0 but on an existing save although I did uninstall 1.17.4 first , go back in game and play for a bit then saved and went back out to enable the 1.18.0 install. It might have been left over script fragments in the save, I can't say it absolutely wasn't. If no one else is reporting a problem like this then I'll wait and see what happens on the next new game I play. I'll use 1.17.4 til I start a new game then switch to the 1.18.0 and let you know if I run into any problems.

[xyzxyz]

9 hours ago, twistedtrebla said:

18 hours ago, xyzxyz said:

 

Yea, either be naked, or have a prostitute (or worse) reputation

I never managed to get a prostitute reputation. How do I get that?

And is theree no settings in the mod menu for the prostitution approach? No debug trigger or chance setting or anything?

How high does the attribute sex reputation needs to be to trigger the old sex approach?

Edited April 2, 2023 by xyzxyz

[izzyknows]

21 minutes ago, N.Gamma said:

I have provided my outfit with SA keywords and felt now every 5 min NPCs arrive and want to have sex with my character because they think she is a whore.
Can I change the frequency in the MCM somewhere?

Pretty much every approach has an option to adjust the probability.

[N.Gamma]

Do I need to reset SH in MCM when I install version 1.18 and Skimpy Armor Keyword Resource (SAKR)?

Edited April 2, 2023 by N.Gamma

[vaultbait]

7 hours ago, Oldwolf58 said:

First time it happened was a standard hypno approach, it went thru the whole speech that should have led to sex but at the end when the sex scene should have fired nothing happened they just walked away and I was still in full control of my character as if there was no scene call sent to AAF. The second time it was in the Cambridge police station and I was propositioned by the asshole Rhys but after he offered me 50 caps for sex he just walked away and again no sex scene initiated. Sorry not sure what the exact line he used was.

 

When something like this happens with an AAF oriented mod, I pull up the AAF on-screen interface, switch to the admin tab and view the log. More often than not, there was an AAF error with some clue as to what went wrong.

[twistedtrebla]

5 hours ago, xyzxyz said:

I never managed to get a prostitute reputation. How do I get that?

And is theree no settings in the mod menu for the prostitution approach? No debug trigger or chance setting or anything?

How high does the attribute sex reputation needs to be to trigger the old sex approach?

Have lots of consensual sex. Or be seen having sex. Either 2 will keep raising your sex reputation. You are viewed as prostitute if your rating is 60 or higher.

 

If you trigger the sex approach in the debug menu while clothed, most likely it will trigger the prostitute dialogue scenario. If your intelligence is low it might trigger the fake doctor one. But they both should trigger eventually. 

 

For the old approach you need to be wearing the shock collar, or have a reputation of >=80 and be naked.

[xyzxyz]

2 hours ago, twistedtrebla said:

Have lots of consensual sex. Or be seen having sex. Either 2 will keep raising your sex reputation. You are viewed as prostitute if your rating is 60 or higher.

 

If you trigger the sex approach in the debug menu while clothed, most likely it will trigger the prostitute dialogue scenario. If your intelligence is low it might trigger the fake doctor one. But they both should trigger eventually. 

 

For the old approach you need to be wearing the shock collar, or have a reputation of >=80 and be naked.

You mean the nacked approach? There is no sex approach in the debug menu.

My char has a sex reputation of 40 and is wearing clothes. When I use the forced nacked approach they always start the old "serve me" dialogue.

Edited April 2, 2023 by xyzxyz

[deathmorph]

A question and a request:

- for the clothes without any keywords for SAKR, does the usual index setting apply?

- I messed things up in the MCM. Is it possible to store the standard values on the start page and/or to note them in the individual points of the mod in a future update?

 

Okay, just saw that you can reset the mod. That's done.
If I want to use vanilla clothing then it seems I need to disable SAKR for the period. In the instructions I read that the slots are only used when SAKR is not installed.

Edited April 3, 2023 by deathmorph