Should I switch from oldrim to SE

[phillout]

3 hours ago, 27X said:

Moreover, dxvk is not "some tweaks to DX", it is an entirely different platform, which is why it achieves what it does. With a 3090 you can run DooM Eternal at 8K/60fps without dlss, you sure as hell aren't doing that under dx12, and dxvk falls squarely under that same implementation.

 

 

Yeah, I've looked into it - a DX emulation layer sitting on top of Vulkan. An interesting development, but I'm already getting smooth 60 fps on 1440p in SSE and I have locked framerate to 60 because physics gets screwed otherwise. My RTX 2080Ti is at 50% of load typically. So what would be the benefit?

 

This is what dxvk developer (?) has said about SSE.

 

Quote

Sadly no. DX11 has less room for improvement and has a lot more optimizations on a driver level, so it is far from the benefit LE gets trhough DXVK.

 

In a nutshell - SSE simply doesn't need dxvk. 

[FauxFurry]

18 hours ago, g2798484 said:

If only Todd Howard wasn't a hack, we wouldn't have this conversation in the first place. Not to mention if Caliente and dimon99 didn't start a body war, everyone would've been able to enjoy all the outfit mods.

With Outfit Studio and a bit of know how, everyone can enjoy every outfit mod.

[27X]

6 hours ago, phillout said:

 

Yeah, I've looked into it - a DX emulation layer sitting on top of Vulkan. An interesting development, but I'm already getting smooth 60 fps on 1440p in SSE and I have locked framerate to 60 because physics gets screwed otherwise. My RTX 2080Ti is at 50% of load typically. So what would be the benefit?

 

This is what dxvk developer (?) has said about SSE.

 

 

In a nutshell - SSE simply doesn't need dxvk. 

The part where I'm evangelizing you to switch a single player game for another single player game where I never play your version and mod list is entirely in your head.

 

The question was "which has cleaner and more consistent animation presentation" the very clear objective winner is LE and the more powerful hardware gets the greater that gap will be. The end. I don't care which version you like better or play, probably maybe possibly because I'm never going to play your version of the game. Ever. At All. Forever. You do you.

 

To drive this home as clear as possible, you listed two things which will never be a thing on my system/game/modlist, because I've done the necessary research and taken the time to eliminate them as prevalent issues, and the fact you're quite happy and continuing to play while objectively limiting yourself with those issues brings it all around back to the actual point of original statement.

[27X]

8 hours ago, MonVert said:

 

Doom Eternal already has a native Vulkan path. ? So I do not see the point in running that with dxvk.

 

 

DXVK can only be run under Linux, and we know how many people play Skyrim on Linux. ?

1. The hell are you even talking about.

 

2. wrong.

[phillout]

1 hour ago, 27X said:

The question was "which has cleaner and more consistent animation presentation" the very clear objective winner is LE

 

In order to declare X an "objective winner " you need an objective proof. No, some argument out of your ass isn't one.  You need to provide some form of objective measurements in an experiment other people can reproduce. And no, getting higher FPS on low resolutions isn't one either - since it has nothing to do with accuracy of the game physics and "consistent animation presentation". In fact having FPS higher than 60 in Bethesda games breaks physics, so you have to limit it to 60 anyway. I've seen and tried those mods "fixing" physics on higher FPS , they all break the game anyway - by buggying out animations (Skyrim) or simply causing random CTDs (Falllout 4).  Which is no large surprise, actually - considering that their authors, as far as I know, change on fly something that the game algorithms consider to be a constant. A side effects of this are hard to predict.

 

Quote

and the more powerful hardware gets the greater that gap will be.

As in getting more FPS on 3080 in Full HD? Those API specific-optimizations create "the greater gap" on lower resolutions only, as many benchmarks prove. The higher the resolution - the lower the gap, which becomes non-existent as soon as your hardware gets stressed even a bit and becomes the bottleneck, not the API. Who gives a fuck about a difference between 200 fps and 220 fps on 1080p? Who buys 3080 to run it on 1080p anyway?

 

Besides the fact that dxvk wins performance over "native" DX makes me suspicious that it simply "cheats" by discarding some API calls since as a rule of thumb API translation layers lower performance. Surely you can get great performance out of Vulkan, but you need to work to optimize the whole rendering pipeline around the API. Slapping some layer on top of it and allowing some old game to use it isn't going to increase performance - unless the translation layer cheats.

 

The list of 140 open issues with dxvk with a large part of them referring to various rendering inaccuracies only confirm that suspicion.

 

And the last thing you omit is other conditions of the benchmark comparing LE and SE performance. If no ENB is being used - then LE simply has less to render. Its graphics is far more simple than the one SE provides. If you use ENBs on both - the point of benchmarking becomes totally moot and you don't know anymore what exactly are you measuring. 

 

[-Ayleth-]

I keep asking this question myself too. When I mod oldrim it feels like putting a bunch of weight on a little pony struggling to keep itself on its legs while modding SE feels like having a great big stallion pull a large carriage effortlessly. I can keep my Oldrim quite stable but it always feels like a boiler about to explode at any time and the savebloats that make me restart my game more than once per week don´t make it easier. I´m really attached to LE but I´m not lying when I say I´m really jealous of some peoples SE setup. Especially after seeing some SE-exclusive mods here on LL and the Nexus.

 

Does someone have any good SE guides/tutorials ? I might want to take a look at it again. Every time I tried to mod SE as an LE user I kept downloading old and outdated ports from LE that barely work and were likely made as a quick way to get LE stuff into SE when it released. I´m always trying to find the actual modern mods that are officially supported but I´m having a hard time. I´m just so used to the old LE mods and download what I know. The Sexlab mods aren´t really a problem but actually getting the basics done for stability and requirements is hard at times. Choosing the right body is kind of hard too. Always been a UUNP person so BHUNP sounds kind of good but it seems CBBE SMP Is more common. I really have no clue.

[Tlam99]

here is a good guide

 

 

[-Ayleth-]

9 minutes ago, T-lam said:

here is a good guide

 

 

Jesus that´s a huge guide. I guess I´ll be here for the next 8 hours or so ? The author mentions stuff like Rudy ENB which gets me like 20 fps on my Computer. I hope this guide isn´t for RTX 3090 players ?

 

[Tlam99]

1 hour ago, AkiKay said:

Rudy ENB which gets me like 20 fps

I use this one together with a reshade setting.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/831?tab=description

Looks really good and by far not overpacked as those rudies

Ok, what I can do, is a list of all this dll stuff, jcontainer, papyrus extender, smp hdt.

The body I use 3BA, splitted setting cbp, hdt. You will see it on installing.

Skse 2019 and latest racemenu is a must for all the latest dll's.

However, I'm afraid, it's not done in a day.....

On my setup I tuned at least 6 months. Just beginning a new char takes a day to have all mods setup correctly.

Oh well, not thinking about all this sl, critter, utility stuff....

[Guest]

With the Black Friday sale here. I was wondering which version of Skyrim to purchase SE or LE? Please vote in the poll and tell me the reasons for your vote.

[Just Don't]

13 hours ago, Temno Rytsar said:

With the Black Friday sale here. I was wondering which version of Skyrim to purchase SE or LE? Please vote in the poll and tell me the reasons for your vote.

Ah I see your thread was merged here. You asked The Old Question, after all. So read, my brother. Rejoice with page after page of personal opinions and faction wars between LE loyalist and the SE cult. You'll never truly belong in either place anyways.

 

If you want additional input: just take a look at the download sections for both games here in LL and other websites you know. That's the main selling point for either version IMO.

[Fotogen]

7 hours ago, Temno Rytsar said:

With the Black Friday sale here. I was wondering which version of Skyrim to purchase SE or LE? Please vote in the poll and tell me the reasons for your vote.

Get both?

 

 

 

[MonVert]

9 hours ago, Temno Rytsar said:

With the Black Friday sale here. I was wondering which version of Skyrim to purchase SE or LE? Please vote in the poll and tell me the reasons for your vote.

 

SE, really, unless you want to deal with memory-related issues, and really limited plug-in list. What's the point in the LE Nexus having twice the mods if you can only use a fraction of them? ESL is the blessing TES needs.

[Aylis]

On 11/27/2020 at 12:41 AM, AkiKay said:

Jesus that´s a huge guide. I guess I´ll be here for the next 8 hours or so ? The author mentions stuff like Rudy ENB which gets me like 20 fps on my Computer. I hope this guide isn´t for RTX 3090 players ?

I'm running an old Radeon 570 and got ~30 FPS (with all the bells and whistles installed).

 

There's an entry regarding hardware and everything above that should run fine.

[-Ayleth-]

1 hour ago, Aylis said:

I'm running an old Radeon 570 and got ~30 FPS (with all the bells and whistles installed).

 

There's an entry regarding hardware and everything above that should run fine.

Are you running 2560x1440 Resolution though ? That´s what I used with Rudy ENB and my Skyrim SE didn´t like it one bit.

[Aylis]

34 minutes ago, AkiKay said:

Are you running 2560x1440 Resolution though ? That´s what I used with Rudy ENB and my Skyrim SE didn´t like it one bit.

Nope. I doubt my video card would even allow gaming at that resolution. That would require a lot of more horsepower than what i got...

 

The planned update of my system will allow it. But that is still months away thanks to the overall availability of parts. 

[Guest]

 

On 11/28/2020 at 3:46 AM, MonVert said:

 

SE, really, unless you want to deal with memory-related issues, and really limited plug-in list. What's the point in the LE Nexus having twice the mods if you can only use a fraction of them? ESL is the blessing TES needs.

What is a plugin?

[Harry Smackmeat]

I haven't noticed much of a difference between SE and LE with memory hacks and stuff.

 

All you seem to get is a bunch of bs dealing with porting mods, ports of mods that don't work with skse special edition because nobody wants to make the same mod twice, unofficial ports that don't work as well, conflicting information about how to port some mods or what LE mods function as-is under SE, some annoying ENB flickering (though it may just be my camera mod, but who doesn't mod the camera in some way?), and sunsets look like the nuke at the beginning of FO4.  Graphics are just barely better, I guess.

 

SSE is potentially a massive headache for what feels like little gain, if any as I'm still crashing from time to time at random so I still mash CASM more frequent than my attack button and kick myself when I happen to get so immersed that I go the wrong 30 minutes without an autosave.

[Roggvir]

I am one happy SSE user, and i would never go back to Oldrim.
But that's just me, maybe a good list of pros and cons may help others decide.


SSE pros:

• Better general stability ?
  From years of using and creating mods for both Oldrim and SSE, my experience is that SSE is more stable.
   
• Bugfixes and some new features ?
  Bethesda did fix few old bugs in SSE executable. Some as a byproduct of going 64bit, some to fix issues encountered when making CC mods.
  Yes, they also did introduce some new bugs in SSE, but all those new ones i know of were fixed in SKSE64 or SSE Engine Fixes.
  The SSE also got few additional Papyrus events or commands (probably to accomodate some CC mods) - none of which is probably a gamechanger, but its something.
   
• Rain/snow occlusion
  In old Skyrim rain/snow falls through obstacles, so you get to see its raining under roofs/cliffs/etc.
  In SSE, houses/roofs/cliffs/etc will stop the rain/snow particles from falling through the object.
   
• Its new 64bit Creation Kit is more stable
  While not using CK fixes, it is way more stable than the old CK without CK fixes.
  While using CK fixes, it is still way more stable than the old CK with CK fixes.
   
• More future-proof when it comes to mods.
  Most mods that matter were already converted to SSE, some got replaced by new ones, and some can be used as they are.
  Converting mods from Oldrim to SSE is VERY EASY - the other way? often not so much, so some new mods made for SSE will never be available in old Skyrim.
   
• Beyond Skyrim
  Out of necessity, the project is being made for SSE.
  It has been mentioned that only small parts of the project may become avaiable for old Skyrim, meaning things like a weapon pack, or maybe music, or maybe some creature, etc., but not the new worldspaces with all their quests.
  What? You say you don't care? Well, in that case i have to ask: are you even human?
   
• Creation Club ?
  Whatever you think about CC, it is something that old Skyrim does not have.
  So, IF there is anything of value in CC, it will be available only on SSE.

SSE cons:
I can't think of any. Anybody else up to that task?

 

Old Skyrim pros:

• Only if SSE is missing some mods important to you.
  Is there a mod that you really really want to use and it has no conversion or new equicalent in SSE?
  If yes, do you think it will stay that way forever or long enough to be an issue?

Old Skyrim cons:
All the SSE pros inverted.

 

[asianboy345]

2 hours ago, Roggvir said:

I am one happy SSE user, and i would never go back to Oldrim.
But that's just me, maybe a good list of pros and cons may help others decide.
 

SSE cons:
I can't think of any. Anybody else up to that task?

 

 

I recently switched to SSE myself and agreed with pretty much everything you posted

 

I will, however, add onto the SSE cons list, since there are a few:

 

- SSE's ENB is not as extensive as LE's, as such, SSE generally do not look as impressive when fully decked out. This is most prominent on the characters' skins and has been an issue since SSE launched. While Boris constantly update his SSE enb, til this day it's still not up to the same level as LE's ENB. Rudy ENB on LE for example looks 10x better than Rudy ENB on SSE. I'm sure with time and continuous update by Boris, the SSE ENBs will get better but right now, LE's ENBs rule the day still

- Lots of old .dll mods cannot be easily converted to SSE and must be re-made basically by the mod author. I personally missed a few really good ones like Armor Appearance, Dynamic Enchantment and Green Tea (most by Felisky the author of Dynamic Animation Replacer now that I think about it...). Although I'm sure replacements or straight ports of those might come someday.

[-Ayleth-]

As much as I´d hate to leave LE, I think I´ve realised that I´m only hurting my own sanity by trying to fix this boiler about to explode at any moment. Getting LE to work in a stable way may be possible for some people but mine always has issues no matter what I try. I always hear that SE is more stable so I assume it´s more friendly towards people who just install their mods and want have some fun instead of having to tweak thousands of values and use tons of fixes to get it to somewhat work.

 

And especially 1 major point I´ve also noticed: If I want to make a serious playthrough that will probably go on for months then a more stable version should certainly be my concern. I can´t be playing for an entire week and then the LE issues start to creep in slowly tearing my save apart, removing a weeks worth of adventure. Even if I can get LE to work, Is it worth the risk of having that one gamebreaking issue that still occured nonetheless ? I don´t really know. LE is always a cozy place that works for some short adventures and screenshot sessions but actual long playthroughs with tons of scripts running, being attached to the player etc. never worked. The longest I got was just after retrieving the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller and then the issues settled in. But that was so long ago that I´ve added way more and new mods to my loadorder that that´s pretty much a dream at this point. 

 

I think if I don´t switch to LE now then it will atleast happen in the next month or so. I wanted to enjoy my time playing Skyrim but what I really got was frustration and staying up long trying to fix issues that I either couldn´t fix or generally can´t be fixed at all. I always told myself I will stay in the LE community forever to "show SE people that LE works" but in reality that was absolutely ridiculous. That is really stubborn behavior and like some grumpy old person that sticks with old traditions instead of trying the new and better things out there.

[superlerk123]

if your new to skyrim in anyway just use SE no point using LE. I was stubern and did not switch to SE until a year ago its been a much better experience in my opinion.

[-Ayleth-]

1 minute ago, superlerk123 said:

if your new to skyrim in anyway just use SE no point using LE. I was stubern and did not switch to SE until a year ago its been a much better experience in my opinion.

It´s not that I´m new, not at all but it´s just that I´ve been trying to fix LE for so long that I´m now finally just giving up. I want to finally have fun and actually play skyrim instead of fixing issues 24/7 and not even getting a good result.

[Aylis]

30 minutes ago, AkiKay said:

I want to finally have fun and actually play skyrim instead of fixing issues 24/7 ...snip... .

I hope to get there too... 

 

But there are quite a few people with questions. 

[snakesnakesnake]

On 11/28/2020 at 5:17 AM, AkiKay said:

Are you running 2560x1440 Resolution though ? That´s what I used with Rudy ENB and my Skyrim SE didn´t like it one bit.

I just finished following Aylis' excellent guide and I can vouch it took a couple days of chipping away at it on and off downloading and installing all those mods, but after RTFM very carefully I got a fantastic looking and pretty well performing game that is running very stable, especially compared to running this many mods on LE. I'm still going to add a couple of my own preferred mods to the load order eventually, but right now I'm just enjoying the experience. @Aylis, I was going to comment on the dedicated thread but big thanks for putting that together. It's the guide that never existed before to putting together a really good looking functional modded Skyrim and I especially appreciate that all the cosmetic mods you selected go together really well and really enhance the original atmosphere of the game.

36 minutes ago, AkiKay said:

It´s not that I´m new, not at all but it´s just that I´ve been trying to fix LE for so long that I´m now finally just giving up. I want to finally have fun and actually play skyrim instead of fixing issues 24/7 and not even getting a good result.

@AkiKay I think following Aylis' guide top to bottom will get you what you want - it worked for me! I run at 1440p with 16gb of ram, a stock 1070 and a slightly overclocked i5 4690k, and I'm locked at 60fps in all indoor environments and typically 50-60 outside - I'll get some dips in areas with complex volumetric effects, etc. I did install all 2k or higher textures, and I cranked up ENB Light a bit further than Aylis' performance recommendation. My rig is pretty CPU bottlenecked so I'd expect if all my hardware was the same vintage as the 1070 I'd hit 60fps everywhere consistently.

Running papyrus logging definitely tanks my frames - had to do that a bit when I first got set up because I didn't RTFM adequately. Biggest tip I found (which I'll probably copy to the other thread if it would be helpful): Double triple check your ESP order because sometimes MO shuffles things around, especially if you miss any mods and install them out of order or need to reinstall a mod. I CTD'd loading exteriors and spent 20m reading papyrus logs thinking I had a mod conflict, reran DynDoLod for no reason, when in reality I was loading patches for Kyne's grass before Kyne's grass. Nuked by a grass mod! Aylis' guide to DynDoLod is also extremely straightforward so if you're like me and never bothered with it before, just get all the billboards right from the outset because it makes a huge difference and it seems MUCH easier to use than the last time I attempted with LE.