Sexlab Adventures

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, Teutonic said:

Spells don't count as weapons in this context. 

I had no certainty whether that was the case or not. Because I had multiple crimes and amounts adding on, and you aren't told what is added for what crime, I never really knew whether I was being fined for spells or not. For that reason, I set all my fines to very distinct values, so I could tell if I was being fined for this or that, and that was when I noticed I wasn't being fined for things I thought I should probably be fined for - but as you've clarified the cooldowns, that all makes sense now.

 

Now I know!

 

I think DCL does count spells as armed when it comes to rape conditions.

 

Are the "unarmed" rape condition in SLAdv different to the crime conditions?

[Teutonic]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Are the "unarmed" rape condition in SLAdv different to the crime conditions?

Yes, they are. I had intended to add seperate MCM options to them to determine if spells should count or not. Sadly, I forgot to actually put it on the page. Apart from that, they are identical.

[Guest]

Would you consider adding something like Solicitation (prostitution) system from DCL?

[Teutonic]

1 hour ago, illusk said:

Would you consider adding something like Solicitation (prostitution) system from DCL?

Possibly later, but I have other priorities first.

[worik]

10 hours ago, illusk said:

Would you consider adding something like Solicitation (prostitution) system from DCL?

Would we really need the 51st mod with prostitution as a side kick? There are dedicated mods for that pupose. Aren't they good enough? Is something missing in them? ?

 

Edit:

Please don't get me wrong. We don't have enough sex-for-money in Skyrim and we can always use more. More stories around it, more nasty situations, more kinky practises, more outcomes,... yes!

But I feel they belong into dedicated mods and not spread out as half-hearted side kicks everywhere..

So please tell what setting do you have in mind. I am pretty sure if it's good it will be added in one of the full-blown prositution mods.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, worik said:

Would we really need the 51st mod with prostitution as a side kick? There are dedicated mods for that pupose. Aren't they good enough? Is something missing in them? ?

Radiant prostitution does too much and has no options to disable it's specific features (competition or horse quests for example), also it has a lot of spelling and translation mistakes. TDF agressive prostitution is  focused around pimping your companions and it's PC prostitution system missing some settings. DCL system is nice and has a lot of settings to disable useless stuff, but DCL requires Devious Devices and it would be really nice to have the same system without having to use DD.
Also all of those mods missing a feature of player character being pimped out by some npc/follower.

[worik]

55 minutes ago, illusk said:

Also all of those mods missing a feature of player character being pimped out by some npc/follower.

Just trying to extract the primary feature: "PC being pimped out by NPC" . Right?

Again, this sounds to me to NOT belong in here, a) because it would never be more than a half-hearted side kick and even more b) it sounds more than big enough to be it's own mod.

Interesting thought, though I remember many discussions over the last years why it was not created. If I remember right, it was a serious lack of story if you don't want to rely on the DD/forced/slave background. That's why you can find it in DCl and SD (as far as I know).

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, illusk said:

Radiant prostitution does too much and has no options to disable it's specific features (competition or horse quests for example), also it has a lot of spelling and translation mistakes.

You're right that specific features like the competitions and horse quests cannot be disabled, but they can be ignored.  Just do the basic prostitution and never take the strange letter or home delivery jobs.  

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, worik said:

Would we really need the 51st mod with prostitution as a side kick? There are dedicated mods for that pupose. Aren't they good enough?

Well... There aren't that many mods with prostitution as a secondary or tertiary feature.

 

DCL for sure.

In Skooma Whore it's kind of central to the premise (clue is in the name with that one), and the only other prostitution mods I can think of are totally dedicated.

 

Apart from ME, I've never really been happy with the prostitution mods. In the dedicated mods, the focus always seemed to be on a male player pimping, rather than making any attempt to provide gameplay for prostitutes. In the secondary mods (and in SW) the functionality is just too basic to create any gameplay. In DCL it's just a dice rolling game, and in SW it's too time consuming, unrewarding, and simply boring, to be a viable way to get skooma. You are better off farming herb tea. (Why I made a Skooma Whore replacement, but that's another story).

 

ME had a serious go at prostitution gameplay, inspirational and full of promise, but set against it - it's become old and incompatible with things; it's still Zaz-centric; it's inherently quite conflict prone; and it was always a bit buggy due to its highly ambitious concept.

 

Radiant ... if you can even figure out what you're supposed to install, and in what order ... the standard of English dialogue is too off-putting for long term use ... yes, lacks MCM customisation ... but you have to give it points for effort. Like ME, it aims high, like ME, it struggles against the challenge of making a reliable mod with the fragile-as-all-hell Skyrim engine.

 

 

But even though I disagree with a tiny part of worik's response ... which was mainly in jest anyway ... 

 

I totally agree with his main point, and I cannot see any good reason to shoehorn a prostitution feature into SLAdv.

 

Not that Teutonic was rushing to do this anyway... And can whatever really... But it sure makes sense not to do it.

 

SLAdv is at its best when it provides situations that can be customised for your game in the way you like: rules, penalties, hazards, expenses, even rewards.

 

But prostitution is a broad area of gameplay in itself - or it should be - as worik says, something that warrants a dedicated mod and a proper treatment.

[worik]

7 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

which was probably part in jest anyway

How dare you to uncover my private parts!

12 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

SLAdv is at its best when it provides situations that can be customised for your game in the way you like: rules, penalties, hazards, expenses, even rewards.

That's the way I see the primary strength of SLAdv, too. Stumple into a (terrifying) situation, be in that situation and be done with it. Next cycle.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, worik said:

Interesting thought, though I remember many discussions over the last years why it was not created. If I remember right, it was a serious lack of story if you don't want to rely on the DD/forced/slave background. That's why you can find it in DCl and SD (as far as I know).

Do you have any references to a past discussion that had any meat in it?

 

I went quite a way down this path with my SW replacement, using the Skooma motivation. There is some pimping functionality, and I thought I could do more, but got distracted with other projects.

 

Personally, I like the DD/forced/slave approach but ... what sort of story alternatives are not being considered that might be interesting?

 

With my pimping, you could agree to purchase skooma on consignment, which would incur a regular, accumulating debt, and if you couldn't pay, would be obliged to work off the debt.

Or you could volunteer to work, in return for skooma.

 

Once "in", more debt would tend to accumulate.

 

A DD item with insane combat debuffs ensured you kept your side of the debt-repayment deal.

 

I got this working up to a point, but it was not properly proofed against external events that could mess things up, like conflicting quest items, dragon attacks, DCL events involving chastity belts, or followers ... running another prostitution mod at the same time ... and probably many other unforseen sources of trouble.

 

[worik]

21 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Do you have any references to a past discussion that had any meat in it? 

Unfortunately no, at least not a single entry point to read it up again... and it's too long ago to have it present in my mind. It was not even centered in the usual suspect's threads.

So far, the ones who put most flesh into THAT where SD, DCL, and two others which I forgot the names. RP/RPG has a more "nudging" approach and doesn't really fit. Personally I expect Devious Lore or DD helpers to drift a bit that lane, too. But again: half-hearted side-kicks.

 

21 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Personally, I like the DD/forced/slave approach but ... what sort of story alternatives are not being considered? 

That's the basic point that either made the tale plausible or where the criticism identified the serious lack of a convincing motive for the player to actually BE in that situation and play it. They all lacked the story and the focus.

I have some more ideas on that, how one could solve that dilemma, how it woud be possible to tell a plaussible story with interacting mods...

But maybe we shoudn't dive into that here in SLAdv and choke @Teutonic with our babble.

[Teutonic]

You aren't choking me at all, I am interested in what people think. A prostitution feature is something I have considered from the very beginning, but never enough to actually sit down and add one. We have mods for that after all, although they might have their issues.

 

I wouldn't want to add "yet another prostitution feature". It should do two things:

1. Do something unique or radically different from the other mods.
2. Integrate well with the rest of Sexlab Adventures.

[Shadowscale]

I noticed I randomly get a bounty with crimes turned off.

 

Edit: Seems it was taxes added to my bounty after going to jail that I get charged for after serving time.

[Kristus Kringle]

What if prostitution was an option for working off fines and taxes? That integrates with SA, not sure if it's unique as I don't use prostitution mods. When the guard comes to arrest you, there is another option for paying the fines ... crooked guards get % of your earnings until the fine is paid. Or if that doesn't integrate, you could be forced into prostitution for 24 hours in lieu of jail. Must get X# of customers or the fine is increased, something like that.

[cailic]

6 hours ago, McLude said:

What if prostitution was an option for working off fines and taxes? That integrates with SA, not sure if it's unique as I don't use prostitution mods. When the guard comes to arrest you, there is another option for paying the fines ... crooked guards get % of your earnings until the fine is paid. Or if that doesn't integrate, you could be forced into prostitution for 24 hours in lieu of jail. Must get X# of customers or the fine is increased, something like that.

I like that idea of forced prostitution.  Marie Eden only works by itself and other mods that were headed in that direction were never completed.  It would be nice if you could incorporate it somehow. 

 

If you want to get fancy, you could be forced into indentured servitude, such as helping in the tavern as a serving wench until you pay off your debt to society.  If you fail to keep up the orders or loose money for the establishment, you would be forced to prostitute yourself.  Or, if you refuse, spend twice as much time in jail as your original crime would warrant. 

[Lupine00]

How does reporting percentage work for crimes?

 

If I have a crime with a 12-hour cooldown, and a 20% report percentage.

 

Does that mean that (A) every update (which is every few seconds) it checks to see if an NPC has LOS to me, then tests the percentage?

So it's update rate dependent, and only really makes a discernable difference if you set it very low?

 

Or does it mean that (B) is the chance for the entire cooldown window? So when the cooldown expires, it checks for spotting, and if you are spotted, checks the chance, and basically determines whether you are eligible for reporting for that entire next cooldown window? So if you are spotted, and the chance doesn't pass, the cooldown blocks spotting for its duration anyway?

 

Or, is the chance adjusted for the update frequency, somehow, (C) and based on an idea of the chance being per fixed time-interval?

Or chance scaled per cooldown window (D)  (divides chance by number of updates per cooldown period)?

 

So (D) is like (B) in overall probability, but in the case of (D) it can make lots of checks against a lower probability, where as in (B) the random part is checked only once per cooldown, and then you are either reported or not reported in that interval based on whether you were spotted or not?

 

Or another scheme (E) ?

[Lupine00]

8 hours ago, McLude said:

What if prostitution was an option for working off fines and taxes?

There is already a mod for this though. Albeit, it's quite limited. Even so, to be worthwhile, SLAdv would have to add a more complete and featureful system than simply letting you pay fines with sex. That's certainly an option, but ultimately there's an exchange rate. It makes as much, or more, sense to make a separate mod with the prostitution in and use it to raise money to pay the fines rather than designing the prostitution so it can only be used to pay fines.

 

Admittedly, it's nice if some fines integrate with prostitution, such as ME's whore license. 

 

It would be neat if SLAdv could add more features that make it harder to be an adventurer, and more interesting to do something else.

The core gameplay of Skyrim is going to dungeons and killing monsters in them for loot. If you take that away, you need to replace it with something else. ME tried to build enough gameplay to make being a whore a viable game. It was still quite limited. Most other mods don't have that. RP has ... some things ... but they're oriented around quite specific tastes.

 

Even better if your fines and rapes mod creates all kinds of obstacles, pitfalls and difficulties for prostitutes that can lead to more debt, or worse, as well as making being an adventurer a difficult path that can lead to you being stuck having to navigate the prostitution route before you can progress as an adventurer again.

 

But a separate prostitution mod could do that, and integrate fully with SLAdv fines, and also work standalone for people that don't want or need SLAdv. It depends a lot on your mindset, and how you update your mod, as a developer. Kimy would, for sure, have one mod with multiple features. Others might prefer to split them (DeepBlueFrog).  I like the split better, because it gives players more choices when there are conflicts, and it makes updates and downloads less of a pain. Imagine if DCL updated every week? That would be tricky for those NMM users for whom it barely succeeds at an install, and takes multiple tries. On my old, slow dev machine it takes nearly an hour to update DLC most times.

 

Let's say I can't update my DCL because it requires a new game, then I'm locked out of everything in that new DCL. Or a new DCL conflicts with my carriage mod. Maybe I end up not updating all of DCL due to one conflict. Or have to do a hand-merge I otherwise would have just skipped.

 

But if I can't update my prostitution mod, because it needs a new game, I still might be able to update my fines and rapes mod. Or the reverse might apply. If they're distinct mods, problems with one don't automatically infect the other. Updates are smaller and quicker, impacts are more contained.

 

Now Teutonic tries to stick to the rule that you can always just update, but not every developer is like that, and there are times that going down that path will really slow up the work for a release because there is big overhead in managing the updates - and it may, in some cases, slow down future work too because you had to work a certain way to make sure it can be updated cleanly.

 

Array properties for example, are basically a black-hole for updates. You have to make a complete duplicate property, and if it was pre-populate with 120 carefully selected forms, that's bother, and you'll then have a redundant array property sitting around on your mod, basically forever. Or you have to manually manipulate the array property in the update. It all adds work. Where as, the dev who forces you to make a new game, just updates the property in the CK, and dumps the problem on the players - but saved his time. Neither philosophy is wrong or right, but updating is a big issue for a mod under ongoing development.

 

(There's no such thing as a unicorn, or a clean save. Both are mythical.)

[Teutonic]

I will note your ideas about a possible prostitution feature (actually I note down all of your ieas anyway), but please do not expect me to comment on everything, for now I am just gathering ideas and I have not decided if and when I want to add it and in what form. A stand-alone expansion theoretically is on the table as well, but I also know people like saving mod slots and I do not think there is much of a difference for me. 

 

8 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

The core gameplay of Skyrim is going to dungeons and killing monsters in them for loot. If you take that away, you need to replace it with something else. ME tried to build enough gameplay to make being a whore a viable game.

 

This is the main issue I have with prostitution. Playing the whore game gets old very fast. I would want it to be special and exciting.

 

8 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Does that mean that (A) every update (which is every few seconds) it checks to see if an NPC has LOS to me, then tests the percentage?

So it's update rate dependent, and only really makes a discernable difference if you set it very low?

This is it. 

 

8 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Now Teutonic tries to stick to the rule that you can always just update, but not every developer is like that, and there are times that going down that path will really slow up the work for a release because there is big overhead in managing the updates - and it may, in some cases, slow down future work too because you had to work a certain way to make sure it can be updated cleanly.

It's not that big of a deal really. Most of the time, what happens during the update procedure is trivial and I have never had the feeling that I had to design anything in a certain way for it to be update friendly. If you have a big mod and make a big update, possibly things are different, but you probably should be making smaller updates then anyway. 

[Teutonic]

Question for everyone: Is anyone not using the advanced rape conditions? I am considering to remove the simplified ones. 

[YFeyn]

55 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

Question for everyone: Is anyone not using the advanced rape conditions? I am considering to remove the simplified ones. 

Using the advanced ones, actually one of my favourite things about your mod.

[vjnmrf]

1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

Question for everyone: Is anyone not using the advanced rape conditions? I am considering to remove the simplified ones. 

Well, I don’t use advanced conditions and generally consider them unnecessary, while the abbreviated terms are simple to set up, understandable and, in my opinion, more than sufficient. In general, excessive micromanagement quickly kills interest (this shit in real life is enough).

[afa]

Prostitution is difficult indeed. I think the premise of falling into the prostitution hole and having to climb back out in order to get back to dungeon diving is a (or perhaps the only) route that could work, but I think executing it will be tricky without getting into story telling and maybe making it nearly quest like.

Clever handling of followers would help, so after next patch ?

[Hex Bolt]

5 hours ago, YFeyn said:

6 hours ago, Teutonic said:

Question for everyone: Is anyone not using the advanced rape conditions? I am considering to remove the simplified ones. 

Using the advanced ones, actually one of my favourite things about your mod.

I second this.  The advanced conditions are very flexible (something that I'd love to see more mods do), yet easy to use if a player simply sticks to the simpler "and" or "or" conditions.

[Kristus Kringle]

8 hours ago, Teutonic said:

Question for everyone: Is anyone not using the advanced rape conditions? I am considering to remove the simplified ones. 

I use them. If it doesn't cause any problems I would prefer them left in.