Sexlab Adventures

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, afa said:

Prostitution is difficult indeed. I think the premise of falling into the prostitution hole and having to climb back out in order to get back to dungeon diving is a (or perhaps the only) route that could work, but I think executing it will be tricky without getting into story telling and maybe making it nearly quest like.

Clever handling of followers would help, so after next patch ?

My take on it, is that prostitution - beyond what is already available in several other mods - should look more like quest content than a gameplay mechanics mod.

 

If you approach it from that direction, create characters to interact with, and some kind of story, even if it's a fairly simple, generic story, that has a defined end point, then it is likely to succeed as an interesting addition.

 

That was where I was coming from with my SW replacement - I saw all of SW mechanics as part of a repeatable quest - and it is the lack of time to create all the content I want in that quest that has blocked its completion. The core mechanics got done, but there are locations to make, sketchy quest NPCs to dress+give faces, and add proper dialog for, objects to make and texture, and a whole bunch of other content to finish up. Two things I'd rather be doing have come along since then.

 

So, it's a case of careful what you wish for. If Teutonic decides to do some major prostitution feature, that's going to be a lot of time when anything else in SLAdv is probably going to be relegated to bug-fixes only.

 

 

Are there features people would rather see in SLAdv first? Or is it just me?

 

Personally, I'd rather see a few more rules for clothing and behaviour before something so major gets into the mix.

(I posted some ideas for those before, and I expect Teutonic has his own list already, that goes on for pages - I didn't think I was posting anything original, more trying to bump ideas that might already have been considered).

 

Or maybe some more options for post-rape, more functionality in sleep-creep and sleep rapes generally - places where SLAdv is strong but where there's still room for growth.

 

Or more follower options, whether it's related to how they rape, or get raped, or whether you need to have one, at night, or if collared, of to leave a city, or to enter one, or who knows what? Because there are tons of possibilities here.

 

New features could be smaller things that can be done in reasonable time, so I hope we could still see more stuff like that, without it blocking off some major new feature indefinitely.

 

 

But what happens is down to what motivates Teutonic on any given day. People are going to develop what they enjoy developing. 

I'm just saying, sure, prostitution, in SLAdv, or another mod, great, I'll wait and see ... but there are other things that could be done instead.

 

I'll take what I can get, but if we get one thing, we don't get another.

[Lupine00]

On sleep rape...

 

The random thefts due to sleep creep don't work well for me, because there's no gameplay there, it's just sometimes something is gone. Mostly it's no different to losing cash, even if you lose items.

 

I always have it on, but I've never had a "wow" or "oh f**k" moment because of it.

 

 

If you could do more to specify the kind of items that get taken, and if there was a way to get them back if they are important ... it would encourage using the feature, and using the tougher options.

 

Imagine if quest items could be taken, but there is a reliable way to get them back? Even if it just meant a trip to Riften, and handing over cash to a fence.

 

Or even expensive valuables, like irreplaceable armor items, that you'd have to go to trouble to recover.

 

A great application for radiant quests here... Your vital quest item is stolen and ends up in a bandit chest. This stuff writes itself  

 

 

What I don't enjoy is the time-limited recovery quests, where your stuff just poofs into vapor if you don't get it in time.

That's great, until your stuff can only be replaced by cheating. You should be able to track that stuff forever! Even if you have to kill a dozen bandit chiefs to finally get it back.

 

 

Similarly, what it the player could choose whether sleep rape occurs on normal wake-up, or whether they interrupt sleep (DCL does the latter)? It would make a  difference to people using needs, or DF.

 

And what if sleep rape chance could be set per city? The set per-city feature is one of the great parts of SLAdv. It lets you make the towns feel different.

What if sleep rape (or other rules) could be set to acknowledge certain major faction states, the same way Thane works? e.g. ArchMage, GuildMaster, FreakishFurryCompanionInnerCircleMember etc. Or even distinguish guild membership from guild master?

 

It could be fun if ArchMage status made you immune to attacks in the college, but targetted by guards elsewhere, and utterly, utterly hated in Winterhold town itself? (No fines, but if you are unarmed, or bound, or drop below half health or stamina, they are on you like a shot, with just about the whole town queueing up to stick it in you, and afterwards, a gift of a full bondage set and a trip to the icy wastes, just outside an ice-wraith nest).

 

But sure, I know, adding to the MCM is so tedious to code (just plain boring), and it would need a drop down instead of thane, so you could set up each of the factions, and the other functionality isn't even in SLAdv at all. I'm just throwing out blue sky stuff.

 

 

To roll it all up in a particular fantasy example... Imagine, Riften is a town where sleeping in the wrong place without the right connections, could get you robbed of everything, trussed up in bondage, then thrown in jail when you ask for help? After a few days in jail, a guard sneakily sells you to a slaver instead of letting you out. After you escape from slavery ... then you have to go on a quest to a random bandit camp just to get your quest items back, and a quest to a different bandit camp to get your valuable gear back, and afterwards, everyone in Riften remembers you were in jail and comments on it.

 

I don't mean Teutonic needs to rush out and implement that. It's just an inspirational example of what could be done with different features, and a bit of creative luck with stuff that's already in other mods.

[chipstick]

Hi Teutonic,

 

Just one request/suggestion. Would you consider allowing us to toggle off the stripping/robbing feature at the start of sex attacks? Reason is, I really like to equip gear that looks great for my pc when she is having sex (e.g. thigh boots, long gloves etc). It would really help increase the eroticism of the mod for players like me, and I'm sure I can't be the only one.

 

And one question... is there any way to keep the creature sex history if we have to clean save while upgrading our version of Sexlab Adventures? (Is there any file/log that we can just carry over? Or is it all stored in the .skse save files and we will unavoidably lose that data during a clean save?)

 

Really looking forward to the upcoming updates when you add combat defeat. So... much... anticipation...

 

Thanks for giving us so much to play with and look forward to.

[ralphk11]

4 hours ago, McLude said:

I use them. If it doesn't cause any problems I would prefer them left in. 

I use them too

[legraf]

I really like the potential of the advanced conditions, but I would love at least a tiny bit of documentation on them.  I know the logical terms, of course, but not all of them are clear in how they are implemented here.

 

I've put my guesses below, please someone correct me (and fill in the blanks!)

 

Ignore: Not considered

Or: Can (but needn't be) one of the counted conditions

Or Not: as above, but only counted when the condition isn't true (not naked = vulnerable, for instance)

And: must be among the counted conditions

Not: counted if not true, must be among the counted conditions (if so, I would suggest renaming this "And Not" for clarity & consistency with "Or Not")

Either/Either Not: I have no idea.  Oh, perhaps one can set a subset of conditions, and at least one of the Eithers must be true?  Maybe?

Always: Umm... perhaps if true, SL Adventures ignores the "count", so this condition trumps all?  Except, perhaps, Not?  It would be good to know which.

 

[YFeyn]

56 minutes ago, legraf said:

I really like the potential of the advanced conditions, but I would love at least a tiny bit of documentation on them.  I know the logical terms, of course, but not all of them are clear in how they are implemented here.

 

I've put my guesses below, please someone correct me (and fill in the blanks!)

 

Ignore: Not considered

Or: Can (but needn't be) one of the counted conditions

Or Not: as above, but only counted when the condition isn't true (not naked = vulnerable, for instance)

And: must be among the counted conditions

Not: counted if not true, must be among the counted conditions (if so, I would suggest renaming this "And Not" for clarity & consistency with "Or Not")

Either/Either Not: I have no idea.  Oh, perhaps one can set a subset of conditions, and at least one of the Eithers must be true?  Maybe?

Always: Umm... perhaps if true, SL Adventures ignores the "count", so this condition trumps all?  Except, perhaps, Not?  It would be good to know which.

 

I am not quite sure if I get what you are referring too, but if that is what you are after the detailed functions of those conditions is documented in the MCM of SLAdventures. I think it was a help tab or something. Sorry if I got you wrong.

[Teutonic]

10 hours ago, chipstick said:

Just one request/suggestion. Would you consider allowing us to toggle off the stripping/robbing feature at the start of sex attacks? Reason is, I really like to equip gear that looks great for my pc when she is having sex (e.g. thigh boots, long gloves etc). It would really help increase the eroticism of the mod for players like me, and I'm sure I can't be the only one.

Are you using the no strip options in the Sexlab MCM? What is supposed to happen is the item is only stripped if it is considered strippable by Sexlab, but I have had conficting reports whether that works or not. I'm going to let Sexlab strip the characters, hope that will help. If it doesn't, I suppose I can add an option to turn it off, but that would be a last resort. (Because strip, rape, dress, strip again, etc. is just silly.)

 

10 hours ago, chipstick said:

And one question... is there any way to keep the creature sex history if we have to clean save while upgrading our version of Sexlab Adventures? (Is there any file/log that we can just carry over? Or is it all stored in the .skse save files and we will unavoidably lose that data during a clean save?)

You do not need to make a clean save to update. That is the entire purpose of the update button.

 

10 hours ago, chipstick said:

Really looking forward to the upcoming updates when you add combat defeat. So... much... anticipation...

Perhaps I should note the next update will most likely not have a combat defeat feature. Mainly because I want another feature first - what happens after the combat rape. Because it's kinda pointless if you are simply thrown out of the dungeon, and can get right back in.

 

1 hour ago, legraf said:

I really like the potential of the advanced conditions, but I would love at least a tiny bit of documentation on them.  I know the logical terms, of course, but not all of them are clear in how they are implemented here.

The help page is dedicated to that, although the OR NOT condition is missing.

 

1 hour ago, legraf said:

Ignore: Not considered

Or: Can (but needn't be) one of the counted conditions

Or Not: as above, but only counted when the condition isn't true (not naked = vulnerable, for instance)

And: must be among the counted conditions

Not: counted if not true, must be among the counted conditions (if so, I would suggest renaming this "And Not" for clarity & consistency with "Or Not")

Either/Either Not: I have no idea.  Oh, perhaps one can set a subset of conditions, and at least one of the Eithers must be true?  Maybe?

Always: Umm... perhaps if true, SL Adventures ignores the "count", so this condition trumps all?  Except, perhaps, Not?  It would be good to know which.

• IGNORE is not cosidered, correct.
• OR and its variants basically behave like the simplified conditions. If there is at least one OR (or a variant), a number of OR conditions need to be met or no rape is possible. The number is the one selected below the conditions. That number only applies to OR, the others are not "counted".
• AND: All of these must be met. If any one of them isnt, no rape is possible.
• NOT: Reversed AND.
• EITHER: Correct, at least one must be true.
• ALWAYS: This trumps all, no exceptions. 

Hope this makes it more clear.

[CheddarTrauma]

3 hours ago, Teutonic said:

• OR and its variants basically behave like the simplified conditions. If there is at least one OR (or a variant), a number of OR conditions need to be met or no rape is possible. The number is the one selected below the conditions. That number only applies to OR, the others are not "counted".

 

Does this mean that the conditions counter needs to be met through OR conditions and nothing else?

Am I understanding this correctly?

 

I was under the impression that the conditions counter counted towards any condition being met.

[darkon74slayer]

On 12/10/2018 at 2:27 PM, Teutonic said:

Question for everyone: Is anyone not using the advanced rape conditions? I am considering to remove the simplified ones. 

I prefer the advanced rape condition cause I set them all to OR and one to ignore. I'm have been debating to use and for a couple of things but I also set it to 3 conditions.

Would yes have the same effect?

[legraf]

9 hours ago, Teutonic said:

The help page is dedicated to that, although the OR NOT condition is missing.

 

• IGNORE is not cosidered, correct.
• OR and its variants basically behave like the simplified conditions. If there is at least one OR (or a variant), a number of OR conditions need to be met or no rape is possible. The number is the one selected below the conditions. That number only applies to OR, the others are not "counted".
• AND: All of these must be met. If any one of them isnt, no rape is possible.
• NOT: Reversed AND.
• EITHER: Correct, at least one must be true.
• ALWAYS: This trumps all, no exceptions. 

Hope this makes it more clear.

 

 

Oh, I'm so embarrassed.  Yes, the "help" button was in fact helpful.  I just needed extra signs pointing at it, saying "click 'help' for help, dummy".

 

Although what you say here, Teutonic, is actually more clear yet.  I definitely didn't understand, even on rereading the "help" info, how the EITHER works.  Clearly what you have is an "AND EITHER", whereas I guessed an "OR EITHER".  So I will summarize once more my understanding, maybe it will help others like myself. 

 

 

To be "eligible" for rape, either an ALWAYS condition must be met, or ALL of the following lines must be true:

• All AND conditions are met
• All NOT conditions are unmet
• At least one EITHER is met, or at least one EITHER NOT is unmet
• The number of OR conditions met, and OR NOT conditions unmet, must equal or exceed "Conditions Required"

 

 

This is really cool, Teutonic, I love that you grant this degree of control.  A good model to follow!

[Next_To_Nothing]

This is a pretty neat concept for a mod, I messed around with it for a little bit and find it integrates pretty smoothly into the world. I did have a few suggestions which I couldn't find elsewhere.

Just a thought but would it be possible to add a dialogue option to the Rape options? Basically rather then knocking the character out they force them into conversation, allowing the player to use speech-craft to try to persuade or intimidate them or simply surrender. Could even add a brawl option but I don't think a 1v5 brawl situation would end in the player favour.

My only other thought was possibly some type of randomization for the crime laws for each hold? Might make it interesting if you don't realize the changes from one hold to the next.

Oh and maybe the option to defer strip settings to the SexLab settings.

In any case I'm definitely keeping an eye on this one, thanks so much for it!

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, Teutonic said:

Are you using the no strip options in the Sexlab MCM? What is supposed to happen is the item is only stripped if it is considered strippable by Sexlab, but I have had conficting reports whether that works or not. I'm going to let Sexlab strip the characters, hope that will help. If it doesn't, I suppose I can add an option to turn it off, but that would be a last resort. (Because strip, rape, dress, strip again, etc. is just silly.)

You can tell sexlab to strip but not re-dress, allowing you to hold back the sexlab re-dress until you've finished calling sexlab animations.

[Hex Bolt]

38 minutes ago, Next_To_Nothing said:

Just a thought but would it be possible to add a dialogue option to the Rape options? Basically rather then knocking the character out they force them into conversation, allowing the player to use speech-craft to try to persuade or intimidate them or simply surrender. Could even add a brawl option but I don't think a 1v5 brawl situation would end in the player favour.

This is essentially what Deviously Enslaved Continued does, with its intimidation and brawling dialog options.  Nothing wrong with adding the same thing here, but if that were to be done I'd suggest that it be a configurable option.  I personally prefer non-chatty rapists, with the shock & surprise value of suddenly being knocked down.  This mod handles that very well.  Being physically overpowered feels immediate and intense, contrasted with having a conversation first.  And having a talk with your would-be rapist would come at the end of the chase, which would be anticlimactic.  Just pointing out why I believe the knock-down system works better.  Again, nothing wrong with talkative rapists as long as we don't lose the choice of using the existing system.  Just my 2 septims.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

This is essentially what Deviously Enslaved Continued does, with its intimidation and brawling dialog options.  Nothing wrong with adding the same thing here, but if that were to be done I'd suggest that it be a configurable option.  I personally prefer non-chatty rapists, with the shock & surprise value of suddenly being knocked down.  This mod handles that very well.  Being physically overpowered feels immediate and intense, contrasted with having a conversation first.  And having a talk with your would-be rapist would come at the end of the chase, which would be anticlimactic.  Just pointing out why I believe the knock-down system works better.  Again, nothing wrong with talkative rapists as long as we don't lose the choice of using the existing system.  Just my 2 septims.

It's not clear-cut in terms of suspension of disbelief.

 

It's also hard to credit that a habitual violent killer in full armor with a nasty reputation would be assaulted by a farmer, even if she wasn't obviously carrying a weapon.

Even two farmers, she would probably beat one of them senseless in a brawl before the other got her. If you were the farmer, would you take those odds? Knowing she might pull a hidden dagger and kill you?

Even if you throw in some Disparity, it's still not entirely convincing. Surely rapists could find much easier targets?

 

Not saying that you don't require naked and bound as rape requirements in your game, or whatever. The point is that different people can set their SLAdv up quite different ways.

 

Providing a logical reason to remove your armor (illegal for women to wear armor in town), and weapons (illegal for woman to carry weapons in town) and taking away logical recourse to the law (illegal for woman to be out at night, so if she is, probably a whore who will be prosecuted not helped) ... are the sort of mechanics that can happen to set up a more immersive rape scenario. 

 

Or if you can set minimum attackers, so it's always a gang that does it, but what's their motivation? A gang rape like that needs a reason to pick on the PC in particular. What if wearing clothes or equipment that don't look respectable makes you a target instead of protecting you?

 

Some things you can set up in SLAdv now. Some perhaps, will come soon? I can only guess.

 

 

But I'm sure many people would like an option for pre-rape conversation, or even post-rape. Could happen a percentage of time, always, or never. (Chance slider). Otherwise, what use is that hefty intimidate skill anyway?

[vjnmrf]

In order delirium... Is it possible to link the punishment for sex crimes with this?

 

[Bushi Neko]

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 2:27 PM, Teutonic said:

Question for everyone: Is anyone not using the advanced rape conditions? I am considering to remove the simplified ones. 

Well, I just use the simplified ones. But honestly it's because of coming from the looooooong use of DCL and it's setup. It's just easier to click the specific toggle than to worry over ignore / and / or to me.  a + b + c = valid rape vs this and that or this. 

 

But I have to say this rape system overall works better for me these days, especially with the extended follower options.  I also confess I take a sadistic humor in my male followers being defiled by option.  

 

@Lupine00 said:

Providing a logical reason to remove your armor (illegal for women to wear armor in town), and weapons (illegal for woman to carry weapons in town) and taking away logical recourse to the law (illegal for woman to be out at night, so if she is, probably a whore who will be prosecuted not helped) ... are the sort of mechanics that can happen to set up a more immersive rape scenario

 

I love the crimes part, but I don't bother with using the weapons / clothing mostly because it only effects PC. Slaverun ( to borrow more coding ideas? ) and it's ENFORCER ability to strip EVERYONE who falls under the category is what is needed.   I just cant bring myself to make nudity a requirement for women or no weapons as every other woman walks around doing what they want.   

[Bushi Neko]

1 hour ago, vjnmrf said:

In order delirium... Is it possible to link the punishment for sex crimes with this?

 

I should have put this in my original post..   Oh yes! If only!

 

My only hangup with BFW is the inability to change the punishment gold taken ( unless someone has minus the CK figured out how to do it? )  That flat 100 coins has landed me in lots of trouble the way my economy is setup. Which of course is great to the idea but makes for a tedious amount of gameplay in prison time that I think should be avoided after being beaten near death by vigilantes. 

[user9120975435]

In regards to having weapons in inventory being a crime: is there some chest or box in front of town gates (and maybe in town as well for fast travellers) where the player can store the weapons so they don't get fined?

[Bushi Neko]

8 minutes ago, user9120975435 said:

In regards to having weapons in inventory being a crime: is there some chest or box in front of town gates (and maybe in town as well for fast travellers) where the player can store the weapons so they don't get fined?

Not that I know of. Tho' you have several options.

Easiest is if your using a follower control mod the storage in their backpack. 

Manipulator storage area.

or what I like for things like this. I used it in Slaverun also to avoid having goodies taken by Masters....  If you use hunterborn / or campfire tentapalooza you can craft simple storage bags or boxes and hide them around the world for putting goodies your not supposed to have in. Or just to hide stuff you don't drag all over but want to keep when your homeless. 

[Lupine00]

I just noticed today that you can't set naked sleep "theft chance" adjustment scale less than 1.0

I wanted to set it to something like 0.2 so I had an incentive to sleep naked.

 

If you don't have the unequip instead of steal box ticked, and quest items are taken. What happens to them?

[Starbrow65]

4 hours ago, Bushi Neko said:

 Slaverun ( to borrow more coding ideas? ) and it's ENFORCER ability to strip EVERYONE who falls under the category is what is needed.   I just cant bring myself to make nudity a requirement for women or no weapons as every other woman walks around doing what they want.   

This. (And not just women, actually.) I know tastes differ, but for me a 'crime law' is pretty pointless if it only refers to the PC, and nobody else ever has to bother. I still hope that a feature like that can be added to this otherwise excellent mod.

[ralphk11]

3 hours ago, Bushi Neko said:

Not that I know of. Tho' you have several options.

Easiest is if your using a follower control mod the storage in their backpack. 

Manipulator storage area.

or what I like for things like this. I used it in Slaverun also to avoid having goodies taken by Masters....  If you use hunterborn / or campfire tentapalooza you can craft simple storage bags or boxes and hide them around the world for putting goodies your not supposed to have in. Or just to hide stuff you don't drag all over but want to keep when your homeless. 

Utopium's Utilities has a quick deposit option where you mark a chest or container and set up a hot key to deposit or retrieve items.

[Next_To_Nothing]

9 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

This is essentially what Deviously Enslaved Continued does, with its intimidation and brawling dialog options.  Nothing wrong with adding the same thing here, but if that were to be done I'd suggest that it be a configurable option.  I personally prefer non-chatty rapists, with the shock & surprise value of suddenly being knocked down.  This mod handles that very well.  Being physically overpowered feels immediate and intense, contrasted with having a conversation first.  And having a talk with your would-be rapist would come at the end of the chase, which would be anticlimactic.  Just pointing out why I believe the knock-down system works better.  Again, nothing wrong with talkative rapists as long as we don't lose the choice of using the existing system.  Just my 2 septims.

 

Of course, I wouldn't want to get rid of the existing system, more options are always good. I think it might just be a difference in how people see the encounters. The conversation is more so to highlight them as creeps or harassers, with the possible chance of them forcing themselves on the character but it's not a guaranteed thing. Essentially allowing the player to use their power of persuasion. Of course a denial could still make them angry and end up forcing themselves on the player character at the end of it.

 

EDIT: Another possible option, potentially one for chance of 'Gangrape' vs just one rapist? I thought that was the 'Threesome Chance' parameter but I think that's just for the chance of using an animation of that type when there's enough attackers.

[Lupine00]

In DEC, the aggression level of the chat was ... rather low ... they might as well have been politely asking, because you could pretty much say no and there were never any consequences.

 

Same problem with DCL's "Smoking Hot" ... you can just say no, there's never a consequence. (And you're going to say no most times because they steal all your keys, even on light bondage, so the only option worth playing is heavy).

 

Or SD+ rape attacks. You just click resist and it never happened.

 

Resisting should be more like "double or nothing" with a weighted chance - a bit of stats, a bit of random - and a chance that something worse happens.

 

e.g. If you resist, you get the hardcore post rape options. Or if you resist, three more rapists come to assist the attacker, and any guard reporting immediately fires with 100% chance, not in your favour. Or if you resist, they add devices to pacify you pre-rape. Or... So many possibilities.

 

 

Would love to see a "minimum rapists" option, so if the mod can't find that many attackers, you don't get raped. Then you can make it so that you're always attacked by a gang. More immersive! I like it so much I'm adding it to SLD.

[legraf]

8 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Or if you can set minimum attackers, so it's always a gang that does it, but what's their motivation? A gang rape like that needs a reason to pick on the PC in particular. What if wearing clothes or equipment that don't look respectable makes you a target instead of protecting you?

 

Good points made, about suspension of disbelief - anything helping with that is a big plus, in my mind.  Your ideas of laws that impose vulnerability conditions are excellent - as is your idea of minimum # of attackers perhaps.  Though I like the idea that with sufficient preparation (on the attacking side) and unwariness (on the attacked), even the very mighty can be taken down by seeming cannon-fodder.

 

In terms of motivation: although there's no obvious way (or in-game benefit, really) to implementing this, one strong one would be to make the PC debuffs "transfers"... so taking a powerful target actually boosts the abilities of the fortunate attackers.  Although the PC-side debuffs tend to be fairly short-term, perhaps that's because the Dragonborn is constantly being replenished/repaired, while the corresponding buffs for the attackers actually linger much longer.  An incentive to target the powerful but unwary!

 

Getting sidetracked, but I'll briefly mention a mod I had not quite completed ?  for Oblivion, where a more elaborate attack (one-time, not random) led to the attackers leaving with a staff magically bound to the protagonist.  Periodically it would be activated leading to unexpected debuffs on the PC, and a brief description of how the villains were using the power of the staff to overcome some other unfortunate solo adventurer.