Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[ITNW1993]

Well consider me an idiot. I hadn't thought of entering the same Jarl's home twice in a row, instead running to the next Jarl after I get released from the items. I apologize for the inconvenience, bleh.

 

Anyway, as a note, would it be possible to have the option increase the speed of the crawling during that particular game whenever an update comes out? The extremely slow crawl can be a bit of an inconvenience, especially when you're in hold capitals like Markarth; the crawl from Jarl to entrance can take an unnecessarily long time.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, ITNW1993 said:

Anyway, as a note, would it be possible to have the option increase the speed of the crawling during that particular game whenever an update comes out? The extremely slow crawl can be a bit of an inconvenience, especially when you're in hold capitals like Markarth; the crawl from Jarl to entrance can take an unnecessarily long time.

DF just uses the default speed set in DD, which I also think is too slow, and has a "moving through treacle" feel, even if you aren't speed debuffed - which only makes it worse.

Adding a speed buff for that game is technically feasible  probably - if the code for the suit is like the code for hobble dress (which I'm familiar with).

 

[Corsec]

I'm currently using Extensible Follower Framework (EFF) and Relationship Dialogue Overhaul (RDO). RDO has a patch for EFF, which conflicts with the Devious Follower patch for EFF.

 

All instances of the follower dismiss dialogue in DF conflict with the RDO-EFF patch under the following heading-

DialogueFollowerDismissTopic "It's time for us to part ways." [DIAL:0005C80C]

 

They also conflict in one more record over the recruit Stenvar dialogue under the following heading-

_DFlowLendHirelingTopic "Want to join me and I'll pay you later? [Add 500 debt]" [DIAL:1000E056]

 

I'm trying to identify how incompatible this is. Does anyone know anything useful on the subject?

 

I'm not familiar with Dialogue Topics, but I'd make a patch if I knew how. Most of the conflict are under 'Conditions', can these just all be merged together in one big list inside a new patch? There are other conflicts under 'Script' and 'Script Fragments', can these be safely merged all together in a new patch? There are also conflicts under 'ENAM - Response Flags' and 'Responses' but these seem like the safest to merge/overwrite in a custom patch.

[eulexia]

I get a bug where the anal plug sign for the whoring deal ends up at my character's feet rather than behaving properly.  Anyone else get this, and/or know how to fix it?

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, Corsec said:

I'm trying to identify how incompatible this is. Does anyone know anything useful on the subject?

Yes. DF and EFF's hiring and firing is ... quite known to me.

 

I know very little about RDO, but if it can work with EFF, it can work with DF.

 

 

There is no reason you can't fix the incompatibility if you are good with TES5Edit, or the CK, and you aren't worried about creating a patch that depends on three ESPs.

People say there are problems with depending on ESPs, but there's pretty much zero evidence to support that idea; it is however, awkward to work with in the CK.

If you can make the changes in TES5Edit, it will be a lot easier.

 

The important thing is that if you put all the changes into a patch ESP of your own, you can redo it as many times as it takes to get it right, without having to copy the original ESPs back over your modified versions (because you won't have modified them).

 

Is there some specific question you had?

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, eulexia said:

I get a bug where the anal plug sign for the whoring deal ends up at my character's feet rather than behaving properly.  Anyone else get this, and/or know how to fix it?

As in, does not connect to the plug at all, or it hangs lower than it should?

 

In the first case, you've got broken scripts, and possibly a broken game with stack dumps.

 

In the latter, you probably have something funny in a physics file, look for overwrites of hdt definition files.

Or... Least likely, but... Sometimes physics goes bad. You can possibly fix it with save cleaner, which can do a physics reset. As you won't be deleting anything, should be safe, unless you have too many strings, in which case you probably won't be able to load your save into the cleaner anyway.

[Corsec]

15 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Yes. DF and EFF's hiring and firing is ... quite known to me.

 

I know very little about RDO, but if it can work with EFF, it can work with DF.

 

 

There is no reason you can't fix the incompatibility if you are good with TES5Edit, or the CK, and you aren't worried about creating a patch that depends on three ESPs.

People say there are problems with depending on ESPs, but there's pretty much zero evidence to support that idea; it is however, awkward to work with in the CK.

If you can make the changes in TES5Edit, it will be a lot easier.

 

The important thing is that if you put all the changes into a patch ESP of your own, you can redo it as many times as it takes to get it right, without having to copy the original ESPs back over your modified versions (because you won't have modified them).

 

Is there some specific question you had?

 

Thanks for the response. I'm willing and able to work with TES5Edit to make custom patches for other types of record, but in this case I'm unfamiliar with Dialog Topics. So if noone already knows about compatibility between DF + RDO + EFF, then I guess my specific question is to solicit advice from other users about how to best go about creating a custom patch to resolve these types of conflicts. Better to teach someone to mod than to make mods for them, I suppose.

 

I'll post a screenshot to show the kind of conflicts between the files. These are typical of the kind of conflicts present, so a strategy for fixing one of them should hopefully be a fix for all of them. They conflict over the sections 'Scripts', 'Script Fragments', 'Responses' and 'Conditions'.

 

 

 

 

With 'Script' conflicts in the first picture, I'm guessing I can drag-and-drop all the scripts together into the new patch. Or will the scripts conflict when the game tries to implement them all?

 

The 'Script Fragments' conflicts in the second picture seem to have the least obvious solution. According to it's author, RDO is supposed to be safe to overwrite the EFF edit and replace it with it's own script, but the DF+EFF patch reinserts the EFF edit. So I don't know which one to prioritise. Does DF absolutely need the 'EDD_TIF_0007A50B' script or can it function without it?

 

The 'Responses' conflicts seem safe to overwrite with since they just change single dialogue lines.

 

And for the 'Conditions', is it safe to just add up all the seperate conditions into a single list inside the custom patch, or will some of them be mutually exclusive? Some of the Conditions reference Quests in RDO so I'm guessing it won't work without them. Also, the second pic shows how they can have mutually exclusive referencable objects, I don't know how to deal with that.

[Nazzzgul666]

Currently in this process to upgrade/download all mods i want for my next new game, just wondering if a new update for this one is planned any time soon? If it is i'd wait until i add it.

[Lozeak]

4 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Currently in this process to upgrade/download all mods i want for my next new game, just wondering if a new update for this one is planned any time soon? If it is i'd wait until i add it.

 

As far as I know, no but I have some free time coming up so maybe and I have been playing skyrim a bit (thx DCL 7.0) but really more bug free content won't be released for while so   the version atm seems pretty stable (i'm sure there are bugs but it's not broken) so use that!

[Lupine00]

I have a version where I fixed various things, primarily the enslaved gang-rape cloak, but I've just messed about with it so much generally, it's not really feasible to make a patch from it (I changed things to be different, that weren't just bug fixes).

 

I was going to clean it up, and do something with it if Lozeak stayed quiet, but I've got bogged down in my Disparity alternative, and if he's going to do new stuff, then I'll leave it be and keep on with Disparity.

[Lozeak]

So as a small side thing Oreos a writer that's stories are always so amazing wrote a story based inspired by my mod! Check it out and her other stories too!

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/29262826/

 

[Thisisne88]

Is there any way to remove any of the rules from the slavery? I can’t do other quests while wearing mittens, and at times I take too much damage while out in the wilderness without being able to wear any armour. Maybe change it to can’t wear armor in towns, but can in wilderness, and mittens optinol? Also can you do deals and slavery at the same time?

[Thisisne88]

I’ve also run into a glitch where during the part where the master is having you fuck 5 people you can’t move or open menus, and the counter never updates despite it all being gangbangs 

[Hex Bolt]

2 hours ago, Thisisne88 said:

Is there any way to remove any of the rules from the slavery? I can’t do other quests while wearing mittens, and at times I take too much damage while out in the wilderness without being able to wear any armour.

The author has been reluctant to make enslavement any easier.  The idea is that enslavement is something the player should actively try to avoid, so to be properly punishing it's unpleasant for the PC and the player.   

 

Sometimes people who are new to this mod confuse its enslavement phase with bondage mods that might tie the PC up for a while or strip her for fun & games, but not hamper game play that much.  They are two very different things.  At this point the follower owns you and can be as unreasonable as he or she wants.  It's meant to be something that you as the player don't like.  Taking deals earlier can help to avoid enslavement.

 

If enslaved, get yourself to a dungeon quickly, where you can make use of all your gear and earn enough to buy back your freedom.  While traveling there, you'll have to let the follower do most of the fighting, and yes you'll have to ignore those tempting side quests.  You're a slave.  Slaves don't get to do what they want.  The good news is that the buyout amount does not increase while you're enslaved.  You're not getting buried with interest charges, so you can steadily work toward freedom. 

 

If you look at it this way, hopefully it makes sense. 

[Thisisne88]

24 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

The author has been reluctant to make enslavement any easier.  The idea is that enslavement is something the player should actively try to avoid, so to be properly punishing it's unpleasant for the PC and the player.   

 

Sometimes people who are new to this mod confuse its enslavement phase with bondage mods that might tie the PC up for a while or strip her for fun & games, but not hamper game play that much.  They are two very different things.  At this point the follower owns you and can be as unreasonable as he or she wants.  It's meant to be something that you as the player don't like.  Taking deals earlier can help to avoid enslavement.

 

If enslaved, get yourself to a dungeon quickly, where you can make use of all your gear and earn enough to buy back your freedom.  While traveling there, you'll have to let the follower do most of the fighting, and yes you'll have to ignore those tempting side quests.  You're a slave.  Slaves don't get to do what they want.  The good news is that the buyout amount does not increase while you're enslaved.  You're not getting buried with interest charges, so you can steadily work toward freedom. 

 

If you look at it this way, hopefully it makes sense. 

For me it’s about wanting to role play as a slave that is always a slave and never buys back their freedom because they can’t. Which is hard to do if I’m not allowed to do any of the quests in the game, or other slavery related quests that require you to fight or pick up items. So that’s why I was wondering if there would be any way to tailor your experience in the mcm 

[Thisisne88]

Also, I’m wearing the mittens and the master still says I’m not wearing them and Locks a yoke on me. 

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, Thisisne88 said:

For me it’s about wanting to role play as a slave that is always a slave and never buys back their freedom because they can’t. Which is hard to do if I’m not allowed to do any of the quests in the game, or other slavery related quests that require you to fight or pick up items. So that’s why I was wondering if there would be any way to tailor your experience in the mcm 

Yes there is.  Select the endless mode option in MCM.  You will never be "enslaved" and forced to wear mittens, but you will be subject to debt and deals, and forced to play "games" when your willpower is very low.  (If you'd like to force that, "set _dwill to 2" in the console.)  Load yourself up with a few deals (start with maybe 4 deals, with 1 at stage 3, to get a feel for things before you go crazy).  Set the deal duration to a long time, and the early buyout penalty to max so you won't be getting out early.  Activate gold control mode so your follower decides how much gold you're allowed to have. 

 

You'll probably feel like a slave at this point.  If not, add more deals.  Ignore the "enslavement" part of the mod.  The real content is the deals, games, and gold control. 

 

If you'd like to start over, since you're enslaved right now, use the Reset option on the mod's Debug page.  Dismiss your follower and recruit him or her again.  Now you have a clean slate with no debt or deals.  Go turn on endless mode and gold control, and set the debt duration and buyout options to a punishing level.  There's a button on the Debug page to add debt.  Enjoy your life as a slave. 

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, Thisisne88 said:

Is there any way to remove any of the rules from the slavery? I can’t do other quests while wearing mittens, and at times I take too much damage while out in the wilderness without being able to wear any armour. Maybe change it to can’t wear armor in towns, but can in wilderness, and mittens optinol? Also can you do deals and slavery at the same time?

After much back and forth, the accepted answer seems to be that most users would actually like slavery to be harder, not easier!

 

However, it does have some problems, (and bugs) and currently, the only way around them is to disable it completely and use Endless Mode, which just uses deals and debt.

 

You can't really do deals and slavery "at the same time", as slavery is designed as a punishing state you have to endure while you work out of debt. It puts all deals on suspension while you pay off the excess debt you owe, then once you buy out of slavery, your deals are reinstated and you can work to buy them off. You may be wise to build up some excess credit during slavery.

 

Originally, it was meant to be the main incentive to take deals, because it was worse than all of them. Perhaps now that is not really true, though it is potentialy dangerous, especially if your follower is weak - and there is a feature where you can be sold on to random, possibly weak NPCs that really makes it risky.

 

 

HexBolt8 explained it well, but what I can add here is that Lozeak had/has no intention to make slavery easier, and most people don't want that anyway.

Personally, I wanted it to be different and harder, but that's my problem  

[Lupine00]

On 11/3/2018 at 11:11 AM, Corsec said:

I'm willing and able to work with TES5Edit to make custom patches for other types of record, but in this case I'm unfamiliar with Dialog Topics. So if noone already knows about compatibility between DF + RDO + EFF, then I guess my specific question is to solicit advice from other users about how to best go about creating a custom patch to resolve these types of conflicts. Better to teach someone to mod than to make mods for them, I suppose.

Sorry I haven't replied to this yet. It's still on my todo list. I really need to load up the same state to see if there is anything tricky you have to do, and I've been playing the new DCL so...

 

If you managed to get it working, please update  

[Corsec]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Sorry I haven't replied to this yet. It's still on my todo list. I really need to load up the same state to see if there is anything tricky you have to do, and I've been playing the new DCL so...

 

If you managed to get it working, please update  

 

That's OK, thanks for responding at least. RDO is a really, really good mod to accompany DF because it improves and expands events for DF. It makes the followers much more intelligently talkative during their 'companionship'. It also allows you to turn normal NPCs into followers, and increases the amount of voicetypes that have appropriate follower dialogue. So, for example, after a devious event, you can find a random NPC to be a temporary follower, make them help you out of devious devices, then have to get out of the resulting debt.

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, Corsec said:

That's OK, thanks for responding at least. RDO is a really, really good mod to accompany DF because it improves and expands events for DF. It makes the followers much more intelligently talkative during their 'companionship'. It also allows you to turn normal NPCs into followers, and increases the amount of voicetypes that have appropriate follower dialogue. So, for example, after a devious event, you can find a random NPC to be a temporary follower, make them help you out of devious devices, then have to get out of the resulting debt.

I also use RDO, and EFF, but my DF is ... different.

 

Anyway, I had a look at this merge in TES5Edit, and while it's theoretically possible, it's a massive PITA, because it just looks at what slot the condition is in, and you need to be smarter than that, which means adding new condition slots and copying things over into them.

 

But, it's possible. So, for example for 0005C826, in everything except DF, the first condition is "Is this Lydia", in DF it's "Are at quest stage 10", then next, it checks Is Lydia?

So you have to make a new target mod, and copy the topic into it.

Then go through condition by condition, read, understand, and copy so the order makes sense, inserting new (empty) conditions in the target mod when needed because you have a conflict at a certain position in the order. You then copy the conflicting conditions in the correct order into the current and new slots in the target mod. Perhaps in some cases you'll need to make two extra conditions per existing row.

 

When it comes to the scripts, you should be able to just stack them up ... if that's valid ... but in the case of follower dismissal, I don't think there's a case where you actually even want two scripts, so there is no actual need to add new script slots in TES5Edit and stack them up.

 

In DF, on dismissal that fails, you reach DF unique INFO items, and those unique info items should run the DF scripts and nothing else - they won't be conflicting in any way.

 

For successful dismissal cases, you should probably pick the EFF script. If RDO has a script, it's just the vanilla one, and EFF is trying to replace that, and you should let it.

 

Does that clear things up?

 

In my DF, I changed it to soft-dep on EFF and AFT and handle them explicitly, and so I want to overwrite EFF completely. I didn't consider RDO though. Totally without thinking about it, I just put DF after it, so it overwrites RDO with rule of one.

After looking into UFO and RFF, I now know how to support them explicitly too, but I think my DF is staying private for now; I don't want to create chaos with it or discourage Lozeak from updating ASAP  For a while I was working on it seriously, but I'm doing something else now.

[qtpie]

Please could you release script sources?

 

I want to make an edit where you get some SlaveTats instead of having to wear the whore plug (which is a little too intrusive and distracting for me).

 

The forced prostitution is great, I just don't like having to equip the plug.

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, qtpie said:

Please could you release script sources?

It's there, "30 Source Scripts" folder.

[Inessa]

I have a bit of an issue, I started slaverun and still had my follower, now he still controls my gold and I need to collect 300 septims. I tried to reset df and tell him to leave but the gold still gets removed when I go through doors. When I pause df in mcm same thing still happens. 

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, Inessa said:

I have a bit of an issue, I started slaverun and still had my follower, now he still controls my gold and I need to collect 300 septims. I tried to reset df and tell him to leave but the gold still gets removed when I go through doors. When I pause df in mcm same thing still happens. 

It's a known problem with this mod that gold control sometimes never resets.  Lupine00 posted a possible fix a few pages back: 

On 9/21/2018 at 9:17 PM, Lupine00 said:

Your problem is obviously that DF didn't clear everything when you released the follower.

Sometimes you can reset it.

 

Reset DF.

 

Hire a new follower.

 

While you have a follower, disable gold theft from sex in DF.

Enter gold control mode voluntarily.

 

Work your way OUT of gold control, legitimately. It's easy if you have credit to start with, sometimes you can get out almost right away, sometimes takes a few days.

Pay off and dismiss the follower.

 

Everything should be fine.