PAH - And you get a slave! (LE/SE)

[Musje]

I'll look into the RAM issue. How many slaves and owners is the game reporting? I got it up to 250 slaves or so but no frequent CTDs. And that's a heavily modded game with Wet & Cold, weather mods, tons and tons of followers + populated towns and cities, populated roads (= many extra NPCs), loads of SL anims and around a 100 clothing mods (merged into a couple of esps).  And I run this on an old gaming laptop

 

Best thing might be to simply limit the nr of slaves spawned by the mod in each town.

[Pfiffy]

2 hours ago, fred200 said:

Just some anecdotal confirmation here.

About the time I had Whiterun at level 4, and most other cities too, I started to get random CTDs just walking through Whiterun. Going up the stairs - ctd. Walking through the market - ctd. My next run I did not install AYGAS until very late; after I had enslaved everyone I was interested in enslaving. Now AYGAS is installed, but I am being very selective who I sell slaves to. I have my own brothels, and bars have a couple of hookers. Just a few sold to needy citizens to lend them a helping hand. So far, no ctds.

 

Suggestion: figure out some way to manage sold slaves that is not resource intensive. Maybe a limit of 20 active ones, with the rest owned but "away"?

 

Certainly my favorite game configuration is PAHE, HSH, and AYGAS. It is a complete ecosystem.

 

So you run into the same issues that I'm ran into in my actual game. CTD's on cell change. There are a lot of them in Whiterun... I know it from a little mod I'm working on. I'm stuck in the Arch mage's chambers right now....I don't think that it comes from the slaves in Winterhold, but they add their share.  

[fred200]

6 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

So you run into the same issues that I'm ran into in my actual game. CTD's on cell change. There are a lot of them in Whiterun... I know it from a little mod I'm working on. I'm stuck in the Arch mage's chambers right now....I don't think that it comes from the slaves in Winterhold, but they add their share.  

Cell change - I had not even considered that. I always thought of Whiterun as one big cell. Not like entering the Bannered Mare.

Any easy way to see where the transitions are? What does the engine do differently on cell boundaries?

[Pfiffy]

1 hour ago, fred200 said:

Cell change - I had not even considered that. I always thought of Whiterun as one big cell. Not like entering the Bannered Mare.

Any easy way to see where the transitions are? What does the engine do differently on cell boundaries?

Well interesting thing is the entrance outside the city... if you are going up the way from the stables you have to pass under a bridge. there you change the cell 2 times. In the city you have a border nearly every time the you reach a different walk way...Same for Windhelm and Solitude, In Rifton the areas seem to be a bit larger...

[DonQuiWho]

@Musje

 

I get this warning spamming my log.  Appears even before the 'AYGAS started, version 0.55' message

 

Don't think it causes any real harm, but do you have any idea why it might be there, please?. 

 

warning: Property PatronRef1 on script aygasworkdetectorscript attached to aygasWorkDetector (95012726) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property

 

 

[AVS]

Haven't had a chance to play around with the newest version, yet, but do have some observations from having the prior version running for a while.

 

Selling slaves to random NPCs usually works fine, but will occasionally have an oddity. The most glaring one so far involves the slaves seeming to get stuck in a travel loop. It's only popped up a couple of times, but the first occurrence involved the slave I sold to the Radiant Rainments shopkeep leaving the shop, walking across to the Solitude gate, and leaving the city before getting force-teleported back into the shop, just for her to do the exact same thing again, over and over, for as long as you're in the area. So it's a bit noticeable. 

 

Some slaves have just up and vanished. I've had the 'oh, I sold them' dialog come up only once when this has happened, for the slave I sold to one of the Markath stable-keepers. In other instances, when I ask them how their slave is doing they just force-close the conversation and act like nothing's happened (suspicious). The first one I saw this with was the slave I sold Ghorza, so I've just been assuming she fell off one of the damn Markarth walkways somewhere, but I've never been able to find any further sign of her. When it popped up on the one I sold Gisli, however, I did end up finding them later. It was one of the enemy soldiers from Falskaar that I'd grabbed and trained using HSH in the basement of the house there, and they'd somehow managed to end up back there at some point. And now they're kinda stuck there, since they've still got an NPC-owned slave's lack of interaction dialog. They're also the only one out of that bunch of Falskaar captures that it's happened to, and the only sold slave that I've seen pop back to their HSH cell so far. 

 

The streetwalker and inn prostitute functions have been working beautifully. Everything executes smoothly and works as expected. The brothels I'm less certain of. I've established ones in the player homes in Markarth, Solitude, and Whiterun, but I have yet to see any outside NPCs come visiting. Even after putting HSH cells into Markarth and Solitude's. The workers will get continuously propositioned by any followers I bring along or leave behind in the houses, though.

 

Breezehome I can't tell you more about because it's giving me shit on this save, and has started crashing the game whenever I try to load into it. I had a similar issue ages ago with the very first mod I ever made for myself, a big ol' Nordic slave pen, where it would get all crashy after having a lot of PAHE slaves hanging around in it for too long (which kinda defeated its purpose). Never did find a way to fix it, so I kinda had to abandon Breezehome, but all I had in there was Lydia, an AYGAS brothel worker, and a few PAHE slaves I was keeping stashed away. Was able to get everyone else out with PAHE and SLIF's teleport commands, but I've been leery of using AYGAS's to try and salvage that last girl since I'm not really sure what the criteria for a 'missing' slave is.

 

I've found that the Dragonsreach Undercroft makes a wonderful replacement as a brothel space.  Although again, I have yet to see any NPCs come visiting. I've found that the workers I placed there are pretty adventurous about roaming around the city instead. First time I fast traveled into town after establishing the house I found two of them wandering around the gate square...

 

 

...and afterwards I found every worker hanging around the little patio space the Undercroft has outside of its entrance, although they all seemed to follow me inside when I went.

 

 

Also saw something similar in Solitude, although that was mainly restricted to the area immediately around Proudspire. Which resulted in a lot of tricks being turned on the Bard's College patio. Dunno if this is intended behavior or not, but I kinda like it. ?

 

Lastly, I've finally gotten around to trying out Sexy Bandit Captives. It just so happened that the very first one I came across was in that weird unmarked smuggler's camp at the bottom of the Whiterun hill... Which is apparently well enough within the Whiterun sphere of activity for AYGAS to assign the captive a slave of her own mid-conversation.

 

 

Seriously, the slave just sorta rez'd into existence right in my field of view as the Captive was telling me about how she got captured. Which was silly, but wouldn't have been a problem if AYGAS didn't decide to pop a punishment scene before I could get back into the Captive dialogs... which it then apparently got stuck in because the captive was already tied up.

 

 

They just sat there like that with the 'this person is busy' interaction block until I gave up and reloaded the save. Second time around the slave didn't appear and I was able to do the whole Captive bit without interruptions. 

 

Still having fun with this, even with the random bits of weirdness. Looking forward to having more ways to put these slackers to work! ?

 

 

[Musje]

17 hours ago, donkeywho said:

@Musje

 

I get this warning spamming my log.  Appears even before the 'AYGAS started, version 0.55' message

 

Don't think it causes any real harm, but do you have any idea why it might be there, please?. 

 

warning: Property PatronRef1 on script aygasworkdetectorscript attached to aygasWorkDetector (95012726) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property

 

 

One script had that property but no longer. It still gives that stupid warning but you can ignore it.

[Psalam]

Spoiler

1 minute ago, Musje said:

One script had that property but no longer. It still gives that stupid warning but you can ignore it.

 

I have an annoyance, not a problem. At least I hope so. When I sell slaves to individuals and then "raise my weapon" (hit "R") the slaves still draw their weapons also. As I said, an annoyance.

[Musje]

4 hours ago, AVS said:

Haven't had a chance to play around with the newest version, yet, but do have some observations from having the prior version running for a while.

 

Selling slaves to random NPCs usually works fine, but will occasionally have an oddity. The most glaring one so far involves the slaves seeming to get stuck in a travel loop. It's only popped up a couple of times, but the first occurrence involved the slave I sold to the Radiant Rainments shopkeep leaving the shop, walking across to the Solitude gate, and leaving the city before getting force-teleported back into the shop, just for her to do the exact same thing again, over and over, for as long as you're in the area. So it's a bit noticeable. 

 

Some slaves have just up and vanished. I've had the 'oh, I sold them' dialog come up only once when this has happened, for the slave I sold to one of the Markath stable-keepers. In other instances, when I ask them how their slave is doing they just force-close the conversation and act like nothing's happened (suspicious). The first one I saw this with was the slave I sold Ghorza, so I've just been assuming she fell off one of the damn Markarth walkways somewhere, but I've never been able to find any further sign of her. When it popped up on the one I sold Gisli, however, I did end up finding them later. It was one of the enemy soldiers from Falskaar that I'd grabbed and trained using HSH in the basement of the house there, and they'd somehow managed to end up back there at some point. And now they're kinda stuck there, since they've still got an NPC-owned slave's lack of interaction dialog. They're also the only one out of that bunch of Falskaar captures that it's happened to, and the only sold slave that I've seen pop back to their HSH cell so far. 

 

The streetwalker and inn prostitute functions have been working beautifully. Everything executes smoothly and works as expected. The brothels I'm less certain of. I've established ones in the player homes in Markarth, Solitude, and Whiterun, but I have yet to see any outside NPCs come visiting. Even after putting HSH cells into Markarth and Solitude's. The workers will get continuously propositioned by any followers I bring along or leave behind in the houses, though.

 

 

They just sat there like that with the 'this person is busy' interaction block until I gave up and reloaded the save. Second time around the slave didn't appear and I was able to do the whole Captive bit without interruptions. 

 

Still having fun with this, even with the random bits of weirdness. Looking forward to having more ways to put these slackers to work! ?

 

 

Yeah there are still some glitches. They disappear or die sometimes. Or lose their owners. The latest version should prevent that sort of behavior but slaves affected by an ealrier version will stay bugged. Talk to a slave and check their mark, if it says No owner they will be removed to the slave pool eventually (and respawned for a new owner at some point)

 

It's hard to prevent NPCs like Bandit Captives to be treated as a slave owner. If they get stuck in a punishment routine, just zone out and back in: zoning should kill all Aygas scenes.

 

It's strange that you don't get visitors in your brothel, and some othe rpeople have reported the same. After assigning the girls to prostitution work, did you leave the house and enter it at a later time? They won't work right after assigning them.

[AVS]

22 minutes ago, Musje said:

It's strange that you don't get visitors in your brothel, and some othe rpeople have reported the same. After assigning the girls to prostitution work, did you leave the house and enter it at a later time? They won't work right after assigning them.

 

Yeah. I picked Markarth as my 'starter' slave city and powered through the requirements to get the brothel set up there specifically because someone mentioned up-thread that they got a lot of visitors there. (And also because mass-capturing Forsworn and selling them around town as slaves just makes so much sense) Was in and out of there dozens of times over several weeks' worth of play, and never saw a single NPC come visiting. Aside from the generic slave that one of the quick custom followers I had left behind there managed to pick up at some point. 

 

Breezehome I didn't revisit as often, but same thing there. Proudspire was only recently established, compared to the other two, but I've only ever seen the girls there picking non-Follower NPCs up and then doing the scenes while walking around outside of it, never in. And the same with the Undercroft, although I've only been back a couple of times since starting that one.

 

Just started a new game that'll be running v.55 right from the get-go. I'll see if I have any better luck with that, once I get the requirements met.

 

[Musje]

1 hour ago, AVS said:

 

Yeah. I picked Markarth as my 'starter' slave city and powered through the requirements to get the brothel set up there specifically because someone mentioned up-thread that they got a lot of visitors there. (And also because mass-capturing Forsworn and selling them around town as slaves just makes so much sense) Was in and out of there dozens of times over several weeks' worth of play, and never saw a single NPC come visiting. Aside from the generic slave that one of the quick custom followers I had left behind there managed to pick up at some point. 

 

Breezehome I didn't revisit as often, but same thing there. Proudspire was only recently established, compared to the other two, but I've only ever seen the girls there picking non-Follower NPCs up and then doing the scenes while walking around outside of it, never in. And the same with the Undercroft, although I've only been back a couple of times since starting that one.

 

Just started a new game that'll be running v.55 right from the get-go. I'll see if I have any better luck with that, once I get the requirements met.

 

Can you turn on logging in MCM then run in and out of the brothel a few times? Maybe that will tell us what is going on.

[DonQuiWho]

4 hours ago, Musje said:

One script had that property but no longer. It still gives that stupid warning but you can ignore it.

Thanks

 

I shall, and I will also try to sell it if I can ?

 

[fred200]

What can we do about slaves in "Unloaded"? Any way to see their names or refids?

Sophia, one of my courtesans, was in this state and I only located her because I was searching for her. No idea who the other two "unloaded"s are.

I rolled back to an old save, got her refid, loaded my current save, did a player.moveto, and she was just in the middle of nowhere, strolling across the countryside.

I told her to stop working in my brothel, and she followed me like a PAHE slave again.

[mangalo]

Small idea : what if you added a chance to get a bounty for talking about slavery in free towns (or some calling to Prison Overhaul Patched) ?  That way there aren't only "positive" consequences to the dialogue added to every NPC.

[EinarrTheRed]

Just asking a guard about it or "talking" about it I wouldn't think would warrant being a crime.  Offering to sell a slave would though.  Having an owned slave with you definitely would (particularly if they were naked or collared or both).  If Musje could figure out ways to add something like that in it would make it more immersive.

[EinarrTheRed]

16 hours ago, Musje said:

It's hard to prevent NPCs like Bandit Captives to be treated as a slave owner. If they get stuck in a punishment routine, just zone out and back in: zoning should kill all Aygas scenes.

You don't need to, or rather you sort of already laid the groundwork.  I shared your list of excluded factions with Blackbird, he's adding the zbfslavefaction to his captives (I think he actually did that in the last release but need to doublecheck that, if not it'll be in the next one) which should eliminate the issue for SBC captives that have been subjugated.  IIRC those that have been freed (and so would be free citizens) aren't included but again need to doublecheck with @Blackbird Wanderer on that.

16 hours ago, Musje said:

It's strange that you don't get visitors in your brothel, and some othe rpeople have reported the same. After assigning the girls to prostitution work, did you leave the house and enter it at a later time? They won't work right after assigning them.

I haven't had time to test this in the latest build but have made a note of it.  Will let you know when I get some results (maybe this weekend if I'm lucky).

[AVS]

16 hours ago, Musje said:

Can you turn on logging in MCM then run in and out of the brothel a few times? Maybe that will tell us what is going on.

 

Sure thing. Fired up the save and did a quick run through all of my brothels and the more active slave towns:

 

Papyrus.0.log

 

First time I've visited some of those areas while running v.55 on this save. While I still didn't see any brothel patrons, the repetitive travel behavior on the Radiant Rainments slave seems to be gone. Popped into the shop and she's following Endarie around properly, now. 

 

 

[Musje]

Nothing t

9 hours ago, fred200 said:

What can we do about slaves in "Unloaded"? Any way to see their names or refids?

Sophia, one of my courtesans, was in this state and I only located her because I was searching for her. No idea who the other two "unloaded"s are.

I rolled back to an old save, got her refid, loaded my current save, did a player.moveto, and she was just in the middle of nowhere, strolling across the countryside.

I told her to stop working in my brothel, and she followed me like a PAHE slave again.

Can't do much about it.

 

I thought about ditching the current system that loads and unloads slaves into slots, and just create 300 slots which should satisfy anyone's desire for slaves However keeping a slave in a slot keeps it in memory also, and with 300 NPCs that may become an issue. There is a reason that Skyrim unloads NPCs from memory when you leave a cell.

 

The only crappy thing is that it unloads *everything* including even the name, location and ID. I can store the name and last known location in a text field so there's something to display at least, but of course that won't help you find them if they go wandering.

 

And even that is hard. Slaves are stored by ID, and that becomes NULL when it is unloaded from memory.

 

Sometimes I hate this game engine... ?

[Pfiffy]

24 minutes ago, Musje said:

Nothing t

Can't do much about it.

 

I thought about ditching the current system that loads and unloads slaves into slots, and just create 300 slots which should satisfy anyone's desire for slaves However keeping a slave in a slot keeps it in memory also, and with 300 NPCs that may become an issue. There is a reason that Skyrim unloads NPCs from memory when you leave a cell.

 

The only crappy thing is that it unloads *everything* including even the name, location and ID. I can store the name and last known location in a text field so there's something to display at least, but of course that won't help you find them if they go wandering.

 

And even that is hard. Slaves are stored by ID, and that becomes NULL when it is unloaded from memory.

 

Sometimes I hate this game engine... ?

Well, with a look at My Home is your home, I think that it is possible to keep NPC's in one location, even if you leave the cell. (It even solved a little problem I had with Display Model in SE, due to some problems in PapyrusUtil SE, that are not solved jet.) And in the new Version it can handle up to 250 NPC's. A lot of the functions are quite similar, so you might check what has been made different.  

 

Edit: BTW: everything else is running quite good in SE, except from the Slave cage in Solitude, that is a bit displaced. 

[fred200]

My own suggestion, not too much work. For My Slaves, assign them by name, refid and job to an array when they are assigned a job.

For the display of My Slaves, display the contents of this array. If their location is known, display that also, or "Unloaded".

A little more housekeeping, but I don't think too much.

If I would not keep assigning long term companions as courtesans, it would not matter to me so much. Those girls I value...

My only two problems with AYGAS: What to do about too many slaves running around, and what to do about personal slaves that go missing.

Anyway, my thoughts. I hope you do come up with a solution. Love your mods - and PAHE.

[Musje]

1 hour ago, fred200 said:

My own suggestion, not too much work. For My Slaves, assign them by name, refid and job to an array when they are assigned a job.

 

Nice try but if the NPC is unloaded, the refid in your array becomes None. I kid you not!

 

I will have to store the name plus a self generated ID.

[Musje]

2 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

Well, with a look at My Home is your home, I think that it is possible to keep NPC's in one location, even if you leave the cell. (It even solved a little problem I had with Display Model in SE, due to some problems in PapyrusUtil SE, that are not solved jet.) And in the new Version it can handle up to 250 NPC's. A lot of the functions are quite similar, so you might check what has been made different.  

 

Edit: BTW: everything else is running quite good in SE, except from the Slave cage in Solitude, that is a bit displaced. 

 

Not sure how DM handles it but I imagine that the "slot" is actually contained in the furniture instance. And you will have the same issue: 250 slotted slaves will take up a lot of memory. I just need a better way to have slaves stay put when not slotted.

[Blackbird Wanderer]

10 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

On 10/3/2018 at 1:54 PM, Musje said:

It's hard to prevent NPCs like Bandit Captives to be treated as a slave owner. If they get stuck in a punishment routine, just zone out and back in: zoning should kill all Aygas scenes.

You don't need to, or rather you sort of already laid the groundwork.  I shared your list of excluded factions with Blackbird, he's adding the zbfslavefaction to his captives (I think he actually did that in the last release but need to doublecheck that, if not it'll be in the next one) which should eliminate the issue for SBC captives that have been subjugated.  IIRC those that have been freed (and so would be free citizens) aren't included but again need to doublecheck with @Blackbird Wanderer on that.

Sexy Bandit Captives v0.953 does not account for this, but v0.954 will when it's released hopefully this weekend.  It only adds the zbfFactionSlave to subjugated Captives upon their transition to a subjugated state, and removes it again if/when they are released.  On further reflection, this solution may be inadequate for how the cross-mod interaction is happening and I'm thinking I should add zbfFactionSlave to every Captive on Captive placement, plus add it upon "Follow me" to account for the users already mid-game.

 

I think that should scratch this itch, yes?

[Pfiffy]

17 hours ago, Musje said:

 

Not sure how DM handles it but I imagine that the "slot" is actually contained in the furniture instance. And you will have the same issue: 250 slotted slaves will take up a lot of memory. I just need a better way to have slaves stay put when not slotted.

I only mentioned DM because i had some issues in SE with my converted version. MHIYH seems not to be so resource killing, I thought it might help you out.  

[Musje]

13 hours ago, Blackbird Wanderer said:

Sexy Bandit Captives v0.953 does not account for this, but v0.954 will when it's released hopefully this weekend.  It only adds the zbfFactionSlave to subjugated Captives upon their transition to a subjugated state, and removes it again if/when they are released.  On further reflection, this solution may be inadequate for how the cross-mod interaction is happening and I'm thinking I should add zbfFactionSlave to every Captive on Captive placement, plus add it upon "Follow me" to account for the users already mid-game.

 

I think that should scratch this itch, yes?

I think that should do it. Seems to me these slaves should only be considered for master when they are released.