Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[_SpaceHamster_]

1 minute ago, SirCrazy said:

Thanks for all your hard work! How do I acquire the pet suit? Is it dropped by DCL?

I assume the only way to get it is via the console.
type help "pet suit" and you should see it pop up.

 

I'm very curious what Kimy will do with the Pet Suit in DCL. Assuming she will implement it there for something 

[Reesewow]

2 hours ago, SirCrazy said:

Thanks for all your hard work! How do I acquire the pet suit? Is it dropped by DCL?

Most mods won't have updated to use the new DD items yet, but a few have.  Devious Followers I know already has a scene that uses the pet suit.

 

You can try out the items manually by adding them through console or using the additemmenu mod.

[_SpaceHamster_]

Wooo, 4.1 release  

 

That means I can immediately ask for suggestions ?

 

I would love to see bound combat for elbowbinders.
It only works for armbinders right now and I prefer elbowbinders way more.

I can assume this can be done without much of a hassle  

 

Maybe I can do it myself?

The animation for bound combat in Armbinders shouldn't look too different for elbowbinders, except for the clipping in the arms. But I can live with that as long as I can fight while retrained.

[harakoni]

@Kimy still having issues converting Petsuits in bodyslide. They don't show up, and when I try to add the mesh through outfit studio I get a "could not load slider set file" error.

Same problem for the new large ball gags and tape gags.

[Pfiffy]

13 hours ago, SpaceHamst3r said:

Wooo, 4.1 release  

 

That means I can immediately ask for suggestions ?

 

I would love to see bound combat for elbowbinders.
It only works for armbinders right now and I prefer elbowbinders way more.

I can assume this can be done without much of a hassle  

 

Maybe I can do it myself?

The animation for bound combat in Armbinders shouldn't look too different for elbowbinders, except for the clipping in the arms. But I can live with that as long as I can fight while retrained.

The hassel will begin as soon as ppl have to remove some anims for installing DD with the added anims...We just had that.. 

[Kimy]

I guess we will face this problem with each and every release from now on. And not only DD, but every mod adding animations. No way to avoid it. People habitually fill their load orders until breaking point, so when one mod adds a bit more load, the result will be crashes. It's the new normal on LL, where we finally have more content available than can fit in one single load order. I guess people just need to get used to that idea.

 

But just to make this clear, I am not going to freeze DD's development for all eternity now. I said this a few times now, but people need to make choices. They can no longer install really every animation and every mod available on LL. Like on Nexus, people need to install what they REALLY want, and that only. Yes, it's awesome to have 1,000 different sex animations, but if people do that, they need to understand that this will be mutually exclusive with mods that actually need animations for their content. You can't have the cake and eat it.

 

I say this clearly so, because I don't want to have three days of debates every single time we're going to add some animations. While we will be mindful of what we're adding, we will absolutely add more animations, because the alternative boils down to stopping to work on DD. Bound combat is one of the things we're going to look at, btw.

[Supertin]

15 hours ago, SpaceHamst3r said:

Wooo, 4.1 release  

 

That means I can immediately ask for suggestions ?

 

I would love to see bound combat for elbowbinders.
It only works for armbinders right now and I prefer elbowbinders way more.

I can assume this can be done without much of a hassle  

 

Maybe I can do it myself?

The animation for bound combat in Armbinders shouldn't look too different for elbowbinders, except for the clipping in the arms. But I can live with that as long as I can fight while retrained.

There already is bound combat for all heavy bondage devices currently in DD. If it's not working then that would be a bug. If

[Reesewow]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

I guess we will face this problem with each and every release from now on. And not only DD, but every mod adding animations. No way to avoid it. People habitually fill their load orders until breaking point, so when one mod adds a bit more load, the result will be crashes. It's the new normal on LL, where we finally have more content available than can fit in one single load order. I guess people just need to get used to that idea.

Yep, this was becoming the new normal on LL way before DD 4.1 updated - most of the active animator's support threads have been grappling with the issue over the last few months every time an update is posted.  At least the problem is becoming more widely known, so hopefully it shouldn't take 3 pages of discussion directly after a SLAL pack or animation adding mod updates to come to the same conclusion that people just have too much stuff installed.

[Richard1234]

8 hours ago, Kimy said:

Bound combat is one of the things we're going to look at, btw.

Looking forward to that

[Darkpig]

I tend to keep my amount of animations light anyway so I'm not too worried about animations. How many new devices will there be doya think?

[El_Duderino]

2 hours ago, Darkpig said:

How many new devices will there be doya think?

Nine thousand, three hundred and twelve!

 

Honestly, it's too early to give a good estimate but there *will* be a few new devices, so much is certain. Some of the upcoming devices can already be seen on the last pages in @Supertin's preview thread. Our main focus post 4.1 is however to create the Devious Furniture mod.

[Kimy]

I'd expect the animation count increase in 4.2. to be in the same ballpark as version 4.1. But as El_Duderino said, it's way too early to tell, so don't quote me on that later on. We have talked about what we're going to do in 4.2, and thus have a rough idea what's going to be in. But that's always subject to change.

[SirCrazy]

What kinds of Devious Furniture are you all thinking about? Will every Devious Furniture have a unique escape mechanic or will it be similar to the way Devious Devices work (same options different probabilities)?

 

Naturally everything it subject to change, I'm just curious as to what you all are thinking about.

[Kimy]

7 hours ago, SirCrazy said:

What kinds of Devious Furniture are you all thinking about? Will every Devious Furniture have a unique escape mechanic or will it be similar to the way Devious Devices work (same options different probabilities)?

 

Naturally everything it subject to change, I'm just curious as to what you all are thinking about.

The first batch will be lore-friendly devices. You will see a few devices considered staple in medieval furniture bondage, such as pillories, crosses, wall shackles, and poles. The first release will allow mods with legacy dependencies on the no longer actively developed ZAP 7 to let go of that dependency if they wish, and use the DD framework for all their BDSM needs. We might eventually expand into less than lore-friendly territory as well, and add more contemporary devices later, just as DD features both lore-friendly and contemporary restraints.

 

The escape mechanics will be in line with current DD mechanics used for wearable restraints. We want to convey the same "feel" for all DD devices, so they are going to work in a similar fashion. There will be no escape minigames etc. Like DDI, it will be dialogue based. Realistically, furniture bondage is extremely hard to escape from without help, but our system will give modders the opportunity to make compromises if they wish. Our devices will also feature a locking system. So you'd e.g. need to obtain the correct key if you want to free that poor thing locked in that x-cross.

[worik]

16 minutes ago, Kimy said:

So you'd e.g. need to obtain the correct key if you want to free that poor thing locked in that x-cross.

One thing to consider ... maybe in the future ... is the destruction of said furniture.

Most stuff is based on wood and an axe and a skillful axeman is always at hand.

 

My idea would go along the line

• shackled actor in wooden furniture (e.g. that x-cross)
• an axe destructs the funiture
• the shackled actor is still in shackles but mobile again and not fixed to the furniture anymore
• we have wooden debris on the ground

Iron furniture would require other means and might force the rescue party to give up or severly hurt the shackled actor.

 

Is that an idea?

[Kimy]

7 hours ago, worik said:

One thing to consider ... maybe in the future ... is the destruction of said furniture.

Most stuff is based on wood and an axe and a skillful axeman is always at hand.

 

My idea would go along the line

• shackled actor in wooden furniture (e.g. that x-cross)
• an axe destructs the funiture
• the shackled actor is still in shackles but mobile again and not fixed to the furniture anymore
• we have wooden debris on the ground

Iron furniture would require other means and might force the rescue party to give up or severly hurt the shackled actor.

 

Is that an idea?

Shattering/breaking furniture is possible with the system we have in mind.

[Reesewow]

Sounds great. 

 

If the first few releases aim to cover ZAP 7 type devices for mods with legacy dependencies, would that possibly include milking machines at some point?  I want to say that the milking machines are probably one of the most commonly used types of ZAP furniture despite how complicated they are because they have a strong niche fetish mod ecosystem, despite the base 2 furnitures remaining unchanged for so long. 

 

With mods like Milk Mod Economy and Being a Cow still being actively developed, I'd love to see a DD take on a lockable milk machine at some point.

[worik]

Another suggestion is to include the already existing torture devices from vanilla skyrim into the first batch of the new DDf(urniture?). Maybe even make the vanilla ones useable via DD?

 

Falling into the hands of the Thalmor could lead to a whole new experience in Northwatch Keep at Thorald's side

[Lokikun]

Please consider when building the furniture system the possibility for some furnitures adding devices that can only be removed by other furnitures.

I was thinking something like a dwemer device that encases the player in a ebonite suit.

 

Another suggestion is a furniture that blocks the worn devices keyholes and you have to do something to the furniture, get locked in it (the furniture) again and then the worn devices are unblocked.

Such as tool built for a paranoid Jarl in order to guaranteed his wife is kept in chastity and no key can unlock it if he does not use the magic sealing furniture.

 

A third suggestion:  add some bound type devices, like the bound swords/weapons. That can be used as spells and can be added for NPC's enemies or followers to cast against you or added to some furnitures to cast on being freed.

 

[SirCrazy]

36 minutes ago, Loki15kun said:

Please consider when building the furniture system the possibility for some furnitures adding devices that can only be removed by other furnitures.

I was thinking something like a dwemer device that encases the player in a ebonite suit.

 

Another suggestion is a furniture that blocks the worn devices keyholes and you have to do something to the furniture, get locked in it (the furniture) again and then the worn devices are unblocked.

Such as tool built for a paranoid Jarl in order to guaranteed his wife is kept in chastity and no key can unlock it if he does not use the magic sealing furniture.

 

A third suggestion:  add some bound type devices, like the bound swords/weapons. That can be used as spells and can be added for NPC's enemies or followers to cast against you or added to some furnitures to cast on being freed.

 

I really like the idea of Devious Devices and Devious Furniture having interactions with each other. 

[Gräfin Zeppelin]

That petsuit is so awesome.

[Seph64]

8 hours ago, Kimy said:

The first batch will be lore-friendly devices. You will see a few devices considered staple in medieval furniture bondage, such as pillories, crosses, wall shackles, and poles. The first release will allow mods with legacy dependencies on the no longer actively developed ZAP 7 to let go of that dependency if they wish, and use the DD framework for all their BDSM needs. We might eventually expand into less than lore-friendly territory as well, and add more contemporary devices later, just as DD features both lore-friendly and contemporary restraints.

 

The escape mechanics will be in line with current DD mechanics used for wearable restraints. We want to convey the same "feel" for all DD devices, so they are going to work in a similar fashion. There will be no escape minigames etc. Like DDI, it will be dialogue based. Realistically, furniture bondage is extremely hard to escape from without help, but our system will give modders the opportunity to make compromises if they wish. Our devices will also feature a locking system. So you'd e.g. need to obtain the correct key if you want to free that poor thing locked in that x-cross.

 

That sounds great, however would it be in the realm of possibility that after being freed from some of these devices; a debuff is placed on the victim? Lets say, for an example you implement the Rack (it's lore friendly, you can see examples of it in Fort Dawnguard), after being freed you'll still have sore limbs. Lets say a debuff to walk and weapon swing/draw speed is in order and since the weapon is swung or drawn a bit slower, it does lower damage as well. 

[Darkpig]

2 hours ago, Seph64 said:

 

That sounds great, however would it be in the realm of possibility that after being freed from some of these devices; a debuff is placed on the victim? Lets say, for an example you implement the Rack (it's lore friendly, you can see examples of it in Fort Dawnguard), after being freed you'll still have sore limbs. Lets say a debuff to walk and weapon swing/draw speed is in order and since the weapon is swung or drawn a bit slower, it does lower damage as well. 

Sounds like it is already covered in the devious training mod:

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/65142-devious-training/

[Piiska]

On 6/9/2018 at 1:02 AM, MadMansGun said:

1. get a SLAL Pack that comes with it's txt source file.

2. delete animations you don't want from the txt.

3. run the SLAnimGenerate.pyw file (you need python 3).

4. use generatefnisformodders.exe and open the fnis list files for the SLAL Pack.

5. run GenerateFNISforUsers.exe.

6. pray that you did not fuck everything up.

7. re load/register the json files & animations in SLAL.

Thank you so much for these clear steps. I just started the process of tightening up the packs and by monitoring animation counts, everything seems fine so far. Is it okay to leave the hkx files of the animations you deleted unless you want to clear up space of course? If they don't affect on anything, I'd like to keep them as a backup in case I want to switch up some animations. Just double checking

[MadMansGun]

1 hour ago, Piiska said:

Thank you so much for these clear steps. I just started the process of tightening up the packs and by monitoring animation counts, everything seems fine so far. Is it okay to leave the hkx files of the animations you deleted unless you want to clear up space of course? If they don't affect on anything, I'd like to keep them as a backup in case I want to switch up some animations. Just double checking

leaving the hkx files should be fine, but if you remove all the animations for a race in a SLAL Pack you should delete/remove the list.txt files and the behavior files for that race, Eg: if you remove all the hagraven animations from MNCSLAL you should delete/remove "FNIS_MoreNastyCritters_hagraven_List.txt",  "FNIS_MoreNastyCritters_hagraven_Behavior.hkx" and "havgravenbehavior.hkx"

failure to do so could cause them to t post and/or stop other FNIS based hagraven animations from working.