Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[SleepyJim]

Possible bug:

 

I've been having a lot of fun with yokes recently but when mods (for example cursed loot, deviously enslaved continued) trigger an assault on my yoked character by npcs one of the animations that often gets picked seems to be broken. According to the console it's DDZapYokeForeplay01. (Although I do have ZAP 7.0 installed its animation override is disabled, so I assume it's an animation from DD.) What always happens is the female actor (wearing the yoke) stands upright in the yoke idle while the male actor lies on his back and animates properly. The female actor is presumably meant to be straddling him or on her knees using her mouth. Is anyone else having the same problem?

[RegisteredUser]

I've had animation problems ever since I built the install I'm currently still using, for the past one and a half years. This includes DD versions 3.x and 4.0, as well as Zaz 6 and 7. It's often the first phase in an animation that breaks, and I did notice that certain default animations are more prone to it than others. I try to disable those as much as I can.

 

But I have never managed to get rid of the Zaz bound animations. You can't tell Zaz or Sexlab or DD not to use them, even if you have plenty of alternatives. They always end up playing anyway as soon as you get stuck in an armbinder or yoke. It's quite annoying. =/

[Kimy]

49 minutes ago, RegisteredUser said:

But I have never managed to get rid of the Zaz bound animations. You can't tell Zaz or Sexlab or DD not to use them, even if you have plenty of alternatives. They always end up playing anyway as soon as you get stuck in an armbinder or yoke. It's quite annoying. =/

All you have to do to prevent SexLab from using the ZAP bound animations is NOT registering them to SexLab's animation database. Which is also recommended. It's silly seeing armbinder animations getting picked for actors neither of which is wearing an armbinder, but it WILL happen if you register the ZAP animations via its MCM.

 

If you -are- bound with DD devices, DD will select fitting bound animations from its own repository. DD will also never pick bound animations for unbound characters.

[RegisteredUser]

I don't recall manually registering those... but then again, it has been one and a half years.  <__<  I'll keep it in mind for the future.

 

Can they be unregistered somehow? For example, by reinstalling Zaz or Sexlab?

[SleepyJim]

2 hours ago, Kimy said:

All you have to do to prevent SexLab from using the ZAP bound animations is NOT registering them to SexLab's animation database. Which is also recommended. It's silly seeing armbinder animations getting picked for actors neither of which is wearing an armbinder, but it WILL happen if you register the ZAP animations via its MCM.

 

If you -are- bound with DD devices, DD will select fitting bound animations from its own repository. DD will also never pick bound animations for unbound characters.

To clarify on that issue with the DDZapYokeForeplay01 animation, I've never registered the ZAP animations with sexlab (ZaZ/Xaz themselves always recommended people didn't) and I don't have the ZAP "override if needed" filter activated. I was a bit confused as to why the animation has both DD and Zap in its name now that DD no longer has the ZAP dependency, but I assumed it was just an old name that was left the same as when ZAP was still required.

[stobor]

@SleepyJim I have seen the same issue with yokes (and no, the ZAP anims are not registered, but I think you're correct that the DDZap names are from DD - probably unchanged from when ZAP was a dependency, for backward compatibility).  I'm fairly sure that one's selected by the DD bound animation filter.

 

Other yoke animations work fine, it's just that one that appears broken.

[SleepyJim]

41 minutes ago, stobor said:

@SleepyJim I have seen the same issue with yokes (and no, the ZAP anims are not registered, but I think you're correct that the DDZap names are from DD - probably unchanged from when ZAP was a dependency, for backward compatibility).  I'm fairly sure that one's selected by the DD bound animation filter.

 

Other yoke animations work fine, it's just that one that appears broken.

Yeah, that's the only one I've had a problem with. As my character has been doing quite a lot of S.L.U.T.S. Redux delivery runs lately, with cursed loot and deviously enslaved continued installed, she's been gamely testing out a lot of yoke animations. The others have all been fantastic.

 

Thanks.

[JuliusXX]

19 hours ago, RegisteredUser said:

I don't recall manually registering those... but then again, it has been one and a half years.  <__<  I'll keep it in mind for the future.

 

Can they be unregistered somehow? For example, by reinstalling Zaz or Sexlab?

Yes. Open Sexlab's MCM and under Rebuild & Clean select Rebuild animation registry. Exit the MCM and wait for the notifications (3 pcs) to appear. That's enough and no reinstalling is needed. Sometimes the third notification doesn't appear unless you go back to the Sexlab's MCM / Rebuild & Clean and close it without doing any changes.

[Alpia]

18 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

 

 

Allright, Feedbacktime!

could not resist and tested again, because my load order is (oddly stable and only DDiDev crashed it.)

Turns out it doesnt have anything to do with DDiDev or any other LL/Nexus mod.

Just by coincidence DDiDevs animation count was the little bit that overwhelmed my setup.

I would say this is a clear case of the famous and dreaded: "your mod made my game crash" user irritation

(false syllogism?)

 

Just by deinstalling all FunnyBiz animations (because of the high numbers, pls forgive me the blasphemy) i reduced the SLAL registered animations to:

8792 animations for 43 mods successfully included (character)
 3612 animations for 10 mods and 43 creatures successfully included (still so many creatures, dont think something wrong xD)

 

And after starting skyrim with a full setup => Racemenu pops (new game) up right away, faster than ever, with the newest DDiDevBuild.

Sooooo you both where f..cking right and hit the spot! THX!

 

Conclusion:

Sometimes less is more,

should have learned that by now, via all those skimpy mods.
 

EDIT:

Counter-check to proofe the theory is right:

- could not install EatingSleepingDrinking (adds about 200 Animations) anymore for a while now, never found out why, but the symptoms where the same => CTD before Racemenu (but i can go without virtual food but not without virtual fetish^^)

- after reducing even more SLAL Animations: tadaaa! i can install ESD and skyrim works right away

=> so since today not the skyrim 255 plugin cap is my limit. The new limit is <13.000 FNIS registered animations

Thats a game changer

 

 

I can confirm you the to many animations crash, as I had to figure out the same weird crashing a few weeks ago. I installed zaz v8+ which adds a ton of animations you may know and that put me over the "limit" and looked in its thread like you did with DD just that I found someone there stating to many animations as cause he mentioned ~10k.

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/93211-zaz-animation-pack-v80-plus/?do=findComment&comment=2150915

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/93211-zaz-animation-pack-v80-plus/?do=findComment&comment=2150966

 

For me working right now is:

9929 animations for 48 mods successfully included (character)
3406 animations for 12 mods and 42 creatures successfully included.

 

So 13335 animations is what I can run right now a animation pack more and its crashing, so FNIS xxl may support 20k animations, but something else doesnt and considering the other posts the limitation doesnt seem to be the same for everyone.

 

Edit:

Looking in the ZAZ V8+ thread the animation limit is a bit diffrent for everyone varys from 10k to the highest I have seen 13,3k (myself)

 

 

 

[WaxenFigure]

3 hours ago, Deoxyribonucleic_acid said:

I can confirm you the to many animations crash, as I had to figure out the same weird crashing a few weeks ago. I installed zaz v8+ which adds a ton of animations you may know and that put me over the "limit" and looked in its thread like you did with DD just that I found someone there stating to many animations as cause he mentioned ~10k.

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/93211-zaz-animation-pack-v80-plus/?do=findComment&comment=2150915

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/93211-zaz-animation-pack-v80-plus/?do=findComment&comment=2150966

 

For me working right now is:

9929 animations for 48 mods successfully included (character)
3406 animations for 12 mods and 42 creatures successfully included.

 

So 13335 animations is what I can run right now a animation pack more and its crashing, so FNIS xxl may support 20k animations, but something else doesnt and considering the other posts the limitation doesnt seem to be the same for everyone.

 

Edit:

Looking in the ZAZ V8+ thread the animation limit is a bit diffrent for everyone varys from 10k to the highest I have seen 13,3k (myself)

 

 

 

The 20,000 limit is for Character animations. There's a separate 20,000 limit for EACH creature. 

 

No one is likely to be able to get to that 20,000 limit simply because the game won't support that many but you are probably right that it's the total number of animations for both added together that may indicate what the actual limits truly are.

 

It's possible that the limit is a fixed number and the confusion about where the true limit is comes from only using the character animations count.

[Alpia]

16 hours ago, WaxenFigure said:

The 20,000 limit is for Character animations. There's a separate 20,000 limit for EACH creature. 

 

No one is likely to be able to get to that 20,000 limit simply because the game won't support that many but you are probably right that it's the total number of animations for both added together that may indicate what the actual limits truly are.

 

It's possible that the limit is a fixed number and the confusion about where the true limit is comes from only using the character animations count.

You may be right here the other posts may only have included the character animations, also thanks for the information FNIS actually supports 20k for each.

If thats the case the others could aswell have like me and "donttouchmethere" ~10k chracter animations (as they mentioned all ~10k animations) and additional like us ~3k creature animations, so the ~13k may be what the game can handle for all, but well guess the best awnser is "reduce your animations if it crashes until it works"

[DonQuiWho]

@LazyBoot suggested that I ask this question here, rather than on the Cursed Loot Thread.  I've included the original question for context, and his answer/comments

 

Question asked was:

 

 Is there any way that a follower wearing DD items that prevent a player from using a weapon can be similarly precluded from doing so?

 

It's weird that when using mods such as Turbonerd's Helpers etc, that followers, rightly, can't help you with your release when their own hands are tied, but they can still run about slaughtering everything in sight.  So is there any simplish way that followers with such worn restraints can be stopped from participating in combat until the player manages to take them off?  I could probably get the effect by setting them to 'No Combat' temporarily in AFT, but that would be an awful lot of messing about... (but if it can be switched 'on' and 'off' there, can other mods do likewise on a temp basis?

 

@LazyBoot answer was:

 

They used to be blocked from this back in DD3, though you just reminded me that I haven't tested if the new code they put into DD4.1 to fix animations on NPCs also fixes this issue yet.

 

 

....as it's a DD feature, it does probably belong in the DD dev thread. Assuming the feature is missing from the beta versions.

 

 

 

So (with apologies if this has been covered before):

 

1 - Does the DD4.1 development version restore this functionality, ie, followers wearing DD devices that would prevent weapons use are also stopped from engaging in combat?

 

2 - If not, is this still in the development plan, or maybe an understandable oversight that might be dealt with?

 

TIA for any info/help offered

 

 

[Kimy]

Try with the newest dev build. Followers should actually not fight when bound with wrist restraints.

[DonQuiWho]

1 minute ago, Kimy said:

Try with the newest dev build. Followers should actually not fight when bound with wrist restraints.

Thanks Kimy.

 

I'll have a go at that & see what happens when I can get a suitable set up in place to try it

 

 

[CovertDemon]

15 hours ago, Kimy said:

Try with the newest dev build. Followers should actually not fight when bound with wrist restraints.

Odd. I could've sworn I saw a follower use bound combat like the player can. Not sure if that's from a past build, though.

[Kimy]

8 hours ago, CovertDemon said:

Odd. I could've sworn I saw a follower use bound combat like the player can. Not sure if that's from a past build, though.

Yes, that's the idea. I guess I should have been more clear on that! NPCs are supposed to use the bound combat mechanics just like players do. What they should NOT do is pop their hands out of their restraints and draw weapons.

[Reesewow]

30 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Yes, that's the idea. I guess I should have been more clear on that! NPCs are supposed to use the bound combat mechanics just like players do. What they should NOT do is pop their hands out of their restraints and draw weapons.

I haven't tested this on the latest dev build, but while on the topic of follower bound mechanics - followers in the live build of DD are able to equip and use torches while in an armbinder if they have one in their inventory and their AI tells them to use it (cave/night time).  Mostly notice this because I make a point of giving my followers a few torches and while they generally fight using bound combat properly, afterwards they will go ahead and pull out a torch while their other arm stays in the armbinder. 

 

Not sure if the filter could be updated to block this mechanic (or if it has already been addressed and fixed).

[galgat]

   I was wondering about something, and been meaning to ask.

 

DDI is very good about protecting other DDI mods, but I was thinking a lot of mod's just use the standard "Player.EquipItem(DressProperty, true)".

 

Will DDI respect those type of Restriction's ? Or is any mod that does not use DDI to force something on the player to be possibly raped by DDI ?

[Kimy]

Not sure what you mean, but DD cannot reliably identify the nature of 3rd party assets. Its keywords allow the framework to determine and correctly handle every device defined by any DD mod, but it is unable to handle special items from other mods, unless I write specific compatibility patches for them. So yes, generally DD will assume items equipped in other slots to be regular clothing or regular armor. We tried not to occupy slots used by really popular community mods (e.g. SOS or Remodelled Armor), but we can't be compatible to each and every single mod out there. From what I can tell, there are surprisingly few issues caused by running DD in an average installation, together with other mods people tend to enjoy.

 

Not sure if that answers your question?

[galgat]

  It was solid enough answer.

 

1. If the said mod made the Item a Quest item, will that be acknowledged by DDI ? ( would this not be a good condition to check for ? )

 

Which in most case's the modder would, or I would think they would.

8 hours ago, Kimy said:

Not sure what you mean, but DD cannot reliably identify the nature of 3rd party assets. Its keywords allow the framework to determine and correctly handle every device defined by any DD mod, but it is unable to handle special items from other mods, unless I write specific compatibility patches for them. So yes, generally DD will assume items equipped in other slots to be regular clothing or regular armor. We tried not to occupy slots used by really popular community mods (e.g. SOS or Remodelled Armor), but we can't be compatible to each and every single mod out there. From what I can tell, there are surprisingly few issues caused by running DD in an average installation, together with other mods people tend to enjoy.

 

Not sure if that answers your question?

 

[Kimy]

New commit:

 

- Added: Pet suit (set of arm and leg binders that force a character to crawl), with matching animations.

- Added: 3 tape gags.

- Added: New ModEvent that gets fired whenever the player makes a successful or unsuccessful escape attempt. Mods can listen to it and do MeanEvilThings to the player when she tries to escape her bindings.

 

Known issues:

- pet suits currently have no ground model, as we're still resolving issues with it.

- pet suit still allows you to jump.

[LazyBoot]

59 minutes ago, Kimy said:

New commit:

 

- Added: Pet suit (set of arm and leg binders that force a character to crawl), with matching animations.

- Added: 3 tape gags.

- Added: New ModEvent that gets fired whenever the player makes a successful or unsuccessful escape attempt. Mods can listen to it and do MeanEvilThings to the player when she tries to escape her bindings.

 

Known issues:

- pet suits currently have no ground model, as we're still resolving issues with it.

- pet suit still allows you to jump.

Did you forget the source files in the latest commit? I can see updated .pex files, but not .psc files.

[Loki15kun]

I don't know if this is the intended effect. But once you equip the petsuit, you can't unequip it.

The menu option does not trigger the open/remove dialog boxes. It shows the equip message again. (happens with all 3 of the suits)

[LazyBoot]

Next up: a bug report.

Trying to remove the petsuit results in the "put it on" box. And no option to remove.

I tested all 3 versions with the same result.

EDIT: ninja'd by @Loki15kun, that's what I get for grabbing screenshots instead of just making a post

[Kimy]

I probably have forgotten to set some properties. Will check it out!