Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[Guest]

Loving the destroy key feature as well  glad its back! 

[CovertDemon]

Would there be plans on adding mouth corsets in the future?

[Laura]

5 minutes ago, CovertDemon said:

Would there be plans on adding mouth corsets in the future?

I had to google what you meant.

There already is a restrictive collar that looks alot like those things.

[CovertDemon]

44 minutes ago, Comrade Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

I had to google what you meant.

There already is a restrictive collar that looks alot like those things.

I should've linked some pictures. My bad.

 

Anyway, I meant something like this.

[bicobus]

2 hours ago, CovertDemon said:

I should've linked some pictures. My bad.

 

Anyway, I meant something like this.

This?

[kplh]

32 minutes ago, bicobus said:

This?

I would guess that he wants a variant of this which also fully covers the mouth.

[Laura]

Just tried bound combat for the first time.

I can't even do most kick she does with my hand free.

It is also probably not possible to do them since you usually use your full boby to create momentum and to keep balance.

But that is besides the point.

 

The animations looks great, but when you kick a blocking opponent you get the vanilla stagger animation which means the arms leave the armbinder for a second.

[Darkpig]

10 hours ago, CovertDemon said:

Would there be plans on adding mouth corsets in the future?

The latest Captured dreams already has it. It is called a neck corset. And yes it covers the mouth.

[GreatCroco]

On 9.4.2018 at 6:04 PM, Kimy said:

Looks like some things are redundant in there.

In general all bodyslide items could get a rename. Some are duplicated (also between mods) and some don't fully describe what they are.

[Kimy]

19 minutes ago, Techpriest said:

In general all bodyslide items could get a rename. Some are duplicated (also between mods) and some don't fully describe what they are.

Agreed, but that's some grunt work I am probably continuing finding good excuses for not doing.

[Reesewow]

34 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Agreed, but that's some grunt work I am probably continuing finding good excuses for not doing.

Honestly the redundancy isn't that big of an issue assuming the results are the same and one of the versions isn't outdated to the point it would cause a problem. 

 

I think one thing that might help a lot is consolidating all of the groups in Cursed Loot under one obvious Bodyslide group - right now if you have a lot of Bodyslide items installed Cursed Loot's groups get scattered all over the list (DeviouslyCursedLoot UUNP/Dress/ExperimentalLatexUUNP/Latex/Pink Zebra/SpikeBall/Tentacle Parasite ect).  Since people really need to build everything, they should probably all be under one DCL group - or at least all named with a DCL prefix so they are sorted in a easy-to-find group.  I imagine a few people who have invisible Cursed Loot items may have run bodyslide, but missed one or two of the minor groups.

[Laura]

That is the reason why I built all outfits, I didn't know which ones were the newest.

But that caused some issues. Some of them were overwriting eachother.

 

EDIT: Editting the names these could prevent others from posting even more Bodyslide related trouble.

Maybe even put the version number in the name.

[TajZ]

20 hours ago, Comrade Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

Just tried bound combat for the first time.

I can't even do most kick she does with my hand free.

It is also probably not possible to do them since you usually use your full boby to create momentum and to keep balance.

But that is besides the point.

 

The animations looks great, but when you kick a blocking opponent you get the vanilla stagger animation which means the arms leave the armbinder for a second.

There already exist mods that make kick combat flashy like Blade & Soul or Tera, but I still feel your toon should have more impact if s/he is bound or not. Both of my pcs are in high 60s-70s in one-hand/two-hand/light&heavy armor (my Nord is maxed in these categories - Imperial is between 58-73) and in both cases if she is bound, her damage output is too low. Granted absolutely right, not too realistic to keep balance if arms are locked in position, but is it possible to address the combat balance> If starting new character as say escaped slave in wilderness, can't do much even if legs are free. 

[Reesewow]

13 minutes ago, TajZ said:

There already exist mods that make kick combat flashy like Blade & Soul or Tera, but I still feel your toon should have more impact if s/he is bound or not. Both of my pcs are in high 60s-70s in one-hand/two-hand/light&heavy armor (my Nord is maxed in these categories - Imperial is between 58-73) and in both cases if she is bound, her damage output is too low. Granted absolutely right, not too realistic to keep balance if arms are locked in position, but is it possible to address the combat balance> If starting new character as say escaped slave in wilderness, can't do much even if legs are free. 

Sounds like bound combat balancing is something to be worked on still - but I've found that at level 80 using the heavy fists perk and some mod-added items (Windcaller's Ring +85 unarmed damage/Khajiit Milk - Khajiit Racial ability effect) unarmed combat is actually quite viable vs same leveled opponents.  So IMO it is mostly a matter of damage done to make it feel good - nobody likes kicking a draugr and having its health bar barely move.   There was even a small mod called "combat boots" that gave +unarmed damage if you were wearing DD boots, but I haven't tried it in DD4 to see if it still works.

 

I'm hoping we get some form of MCM slider to control the damage output and have it scale with level so we can tweak it to match in-game difficulty, since people have such hugely different difficulty setups (especially at high levels).  I'm sure that could have some people setting themselves up to be Catwoman every time they get bound and destroy everything, but not like they couldn't cheat with "kill" console spam if they wanted to.  

[Kimy]

Improving bound combat is very high up on the bucket list of things to do. We want it to be more viable in more situations.

[Laura]

35 minutes ago, TajZ said:

There already exist mods that make kick combat flashy like Blade & Soul or Tera, but I still feel your toon should have more impact if s/he is bound or not. Both of my pcs are in high 60s-70s in one-hand/two-hand/light&heavy armor (my Nord is maxed in these categories - Imperial is between 58-73) and in both cases if she is bound, her damage output is too low. Granted absolutely right, not too realistic to keep balance if arms are locked in position, but is it possible to address the combat balance> If starting new character as say escaped slave in wilderness, can't do much even if legs are free. 

 

18 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Improving bound combat is very high up on the bucket list of things to do. We want it to be more viable in more situations.

 

The dmg I do when bound is indeed too low.

It looks like the standard 4 dmg.

But a skilled dragonborn should pack more of a punch (kick in this case).

Also, It would also be better to have the kicks more be powerfull than the standard punches.

A roundhouse kick hurts alot more than a jab.

[Tyrant99]

16 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Improving bound combat is very high up on the bucket list of things to do. We want it to be more viable in more situations.

In my opinion, the best bet for a Damsel in an Armbinder - bound combat-wise - would be to go for the swift kick or knee to the area between the legs... For humanoids at least. (Maybe it could do extra damage?)

 

But, spinning karate kicks are cool too... lol 

[Reesewow]

4 minutes ago, Comrade Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

The dmg I do when bound is indeed too low.

It looks like the standard 4 dmg.

But a skilled dragonborn should pack more of a punch (kick in this case).

Also, It would also be better to have the kicks more be powerfull than the standard punches.

A roundhouse kick hurts alot more than a jab.

Yea, vanilla unarmed combat is hot garbage since it doesn't scale at all, and can only be improved with a few perks and unique items/enchants.  it is so annoying to get into a brawl at high levels and basically have to stand still tapping M1 until you finish the tickle-fight.  The vanilla gauntlets = unarmed damage perk rarely works for bound combat anyway because in practice you almost always don't have gauntlets equipped while involved in bound combat.  I personally very much welcome bound combat that is actually useful/adds some variety to melee combat - the animations are great fun.

[stobor]

Minor bug report, in case the problem isn't just on my end: one of the animation substitutions with yokes 'DDZapYokeForeplay01' does not seem to be animating the female toon (she continues the normal standing idle, while the male does his thing).  The other yoke animations seem to be working fine.

[SirCrazy]

For bound combat I like the MCM slider idea because different people had different ideas on how effective bound combat should be. I do not believe it would be possible to balance bound combat in a way that makes most people happy so the easiest solution proposed so far would be an MCM slider for bound combat damage.

 

In my opinion a bound person should not be able to win a fight against a dragon, a powerful enemy or a large group of lower level enemies. There would be no point to putting a person in bondage if they could still kill everyone around them.  A lone naked person wearing nothing but an armbinder should not pose much of a threat to someone with armor and a sword.  However this is a game based around combat so some leeway has to be granted to account for that. In my opinion only a person who has trained for or is experienced in bound combat should be effective with it. This is why I like the idea of a devious skill tree but I accept that due to technical limitations of the game, that may not ever happen.

 

[Kimy]

The damage output will scale in some fashion. I haven't thought about the actual system much yet.

 

No, you will not win against a dragon. What I have in mind is making bound dungeon runs more feasible than they are now, but I have no intention to trivialize being restrained to the degree that people do not want to escape their bindings anymore.

 

Yes, you will have to train bound combat to be effective at it!

[Code Serpent]

This might be better suited for it's own mod, but one solution to bound combat would be playing the damsel in distress, and prompting others to do the fighting for you.

 

For example; if your character is being chased by wolves across the plains of Whiterun, a nearby traveller or guard may come to your rescue and will start escorting you, like a temporary follower. In more dangerous places like bandit outposts, one of them might turn on the others in an attempt to claim you.

[GreatCroco]

On 11.4.2018 at 7:56 PM, Reesewow said:

I think one thing that might help a lot is consolidating all of the groups in Cursed Loot under one obvious Bodyslide group - right now if you have a lot of Bodyslide items installed Cursed Loot's groups get scattered all over the list (DeviouslyCursedLoot UUNP/Dress/ExperimentalLatexUUNP/Latex/Pink Zebra/SpikeBall/Tentacle Parasite ect). 

So much this! Aren't the slider files plain xml?

 

On 11.4.2018 at 7:00 PM, Kimy said:

Agreed, but that's some grunt work I am probably continuing finding good excuses for not doing.

Oh, who could have guessed. Programmers don't want to do chores... That's why they develop programs to to the chores for them, never mind that doing it by hand would be faster... And now excuse me I have 10 pages of documentation to write... at least. *sigh*

[Laura]

12 hours ago, IronDusk33 said:

This might be better suited for it's own mod, but one solution to bound combat would be playing the damsel in distress, and prompting others to do the fighting for you.

 

For example; if your character is being chased by wolves across the plains of Whiterun, a nearby traveller or guard may come to your rescue and will start escorting you, like a temporary follower. In more dangerous places like bandit outposts, one of them might turn on the others in an attempt to claim you.

I prefer the have viable bound combat.

I want to be able to keep going while wearing an armbinder.

Also because legs and feet are effective weapons and not using the them in that situation would be silly.

[Code Serpent]

3 minutes ago, Comrade Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

I prefer the have viable bound combat.

I want to be able to keep going while wearing an armbinder.

Also because legs and feet are effective weapons and not using the them in that situation would be silly.

I was thinking this could be a system that works on top of bound combat. As it stands currently, unless your character is a reincarnation of Chun Li, getting through dungeons or bandit-infested wilderness would be near impossible with just your legs. It would be completely impossible if she gets stuck in a tight dress or ankle chains. Tricking or persuading nearby NPCs to fight for you would be one way for your character to survive.

 

However, I think if your character could learn to do some knock-back or staggering kicks that could stun-lock enemies, it might become an interesting and viable combat style.