Jump to content

HDT SMP for SSE?

blueballbob

By blueballbob,
in Skyrim: Special Edition

Recommended Posts

DarkFireTim

DarkFireTim

Posted
Posted

Hey all! I'm back again, need some help with my current project if anyone feels like giving me a hand. I've got a nice demon tail rigged with SMP and set up as equippable clothing. However I'm running into three problems.

 

1. I cant get the tail to stop clipping through the legs during and after sudden\fast turns. Basically the tail swings wide and then instead of hitting the legs and sliding around them to return to its original position it just clips through them.

 

2. A constant jitter, the tail just wont sit still. Some twitching is fine, the tail is supposed to be "live" after all, but this is more like a mild seizure than any kind of shifting or swaying a tail might do.

 

3. More realistic movement in general. I'm aware this is more of an artistic thing than a problem, and if I can get the first two problems solved I'll figure this one out on my own eventually, but I'm posting the nif and xml anyway so if someone feels like taking a crack at this I'd appreciate it.

 

 

The nif is a modified compilation of some of Jacques00's, the tail itself, and deadzone45's, the collision spaces, work and the xml is based on work done by deadzone45, in case anyone was wondering.

SuccubusTail.xml

tail_1.nif

DykkenTomb

DykkenTomb

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, QuietPippin said:

Or you could download the many auto exe backup mods

 

and just plop the older exe back in the data folder  to save you headaches

Already did that when it first came out. =)

 

2 hours ago, scipher99 said:

just checked not yet bud

Nutz.... Floppy! Oh, wait!. XD

Zaknea

Zaknea

Posted
Posted

Quick question.  

 

I am trying to make gloves have collisions.  They completely replace the hands, so they're gone.  Ous's CBBE SMP config has any shape mapped to "Hands/Gloves/GlovesLow/Gauntlets" to collide with body CBBE.  Body is good, it will collide with bare hands, but not if gloves are equipped.  So, I had thought, if I just rename the shape in the nif to any of the Hands/Gloves/GlovesLow/Gauntlets shape names that they would now collide.  This isn't working though.  Should it be?  Or am I wrong in my thinking on this?

Gromilla

Gromilla

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Zaknea said:

Quick question.  

 

I am trying to make gloves have collisions.  They completely replace the hands, so they're gone.  Ous's CBBE SMP config has any shape mapped to "Hands/Gloves/GlovesLow/Gauntlets" to collide with body CBBE.  Body is good, it will collide with bare hands, but not if gloves are equipped.  So, I had thought, if I just rename the shape in the nif to any of the Hands/Gloves/GlovesLow/Gauntlets shape names that they would now collide.  This isn't working though.  Should it be?  Or am I wrong in my thinking on this?

Where can I find this  "Ous's CBBE SMP config"? 

Tx

Zaknea

Zaknea

Posted
Posted
On 4/8/2018 at 5:25 PM, Zaknea said:

Quick question.  

 

I am trying to make gloves have collisions.  They completely replace the hands, so they're gone.  Ous's CBBE SMP config has any shape mapped to "Hands/Gloves/GlovesLow/Gauntlets" to collide with body CBBE.  Body is good, it will collide with bare hands, but not if gloves are equipped.  So, I had thought, if I just rename the shape in the nif to any of the Hands/Gloves/GlovesLow/Gauntlets shape names that they would now collide.  This isn't working though.  Should it be?  Or am I wrong in my thinking on this?

In response to my own question... This actually worked on another mesh that didn't have collisions.  I renamed the shape to "Gauntlets" and it then had collisions... I guess I need to find the issue inside my other nif.

DarkFireTim

DarkFireTim

Posted
Posted

@Zaknea

 

Both in response to my own problems earlier, post #602 the second problem I listed, and to chime in on yours Zaknea. It turns out the reason I was getting that obnoxious jittering with my tail was that I borked my weight painting when I merged my component nifs together. A second, more careful, attempt at merging them yielded a successful non jittering tail nif. While I doubt your problem has anything to do with weight painting, after face planting into my own nif issue I second your plan to reexamine of your nif. Double check you dotted your i's and crossed your t's kinda thing. 

 

As for my first problem. I got it to stop clipping when the tail was moving slowly by increasing the <margin> on the tail, leg, and feet, collision shapes and the <prenetration> on the legs and feet collision shapes. However the tail still clips right through when its moving fast enough, like when the character makes a sharp turn while running. I tried further increases to the <margin>, <prenetration>, and <penetration> values but that just caused the tail to get stuck on or in between the legs, so for now I've just by passed the problem by increasing the inertia until the tail almost never moves in front of the legs. I've attached my new working files in case anyone wants to compare and contrast for their own benefit.

 

While I was tinkering with my own problems I had a thought and figured I'd toss it out here and see if anyone knew the answer. How do we rig a bone so its resting state counters gravity? Like if I wanted rig up SMP fox ears that stood straight up when the characters head wasn't moving or a scorpion tail that had a resting position that arced up and over the characters head or a balloon that floated above and behind a child npc. I'm not actually working on anything like this, now that I have my tail working I'm gonna take some time to actually play, but the question interested me and tickled my theory crafting instincts so I thought I'd share.

SuccubusTail.xml

tail_1.nif

Changer

Changer

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, DarkFireTim said:

...

 

While I was tinkering with my own problems I had a thought and figured I'd toss it out here and see if anyone knew the answer. How do we rig a bone so its resting state counters gravity? Like if I wanted rig up SMP fox ears that stood straight up when the characters head wasn't moving or a scorpion tail that had a resting position that arced up and over the characters head or a balloon that floated above and behind a child npc. I'm not actually working on anything like this, now that I have my tail working I'm gonna take some time to actually play, but the question interested me and tickled my theory crafting instincts so I thought I'd share.

SuccubusTail.xml

tail_1.nif

 

setting the linear equilibrium's z value in the generic constraints helped me to counter gravity.

imagine a spring with a weight attached to it. you hang the spring so that the weight is at a specific height when the spring is in its neutral state, but the gravity streches the spring. so you've got to hang it a tad higher. Its basicly the same thing. Thats propably not the best way to solve this, but it worked for me.

if you are working with bone angles in your tails, you might need to tweak the angular equilibrium as well. Not sure which rotation axis is the one that controlls pointing up/down.

 

you could also set the linear and angular maxima/minima to stop the bones from falling down, but only if you NEVER want them to go below a certaint point in relation their respective parent bones.

 

 

edit: just saw in your xml file that you dont use linear movement at all. in that case the angular equilibrium values are what you need to tweak.

note that as you have a chain of bones you will need different values for each, as each bone carries the weight of all that follow. The earlier the bone's position in the chain, the more weight is dragging it down and thus the "higher you need to hang it".

DarkFireTim

DarkFireTim

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, Changer said:

 

setting the linear equilibrium's z value in the generic constraints helped me to counter gravity.

imagine a spring with a weight attached to it. you hang the spring so that the weight is at a specific height when the spring is in its neutral state, but the gravity streches the spring. so you've got to hang it a tad higher. Its basicly the same thing. Thats propably not the best way to solve this, but it worked for me.

if you are working with bone angles in your tails, you might need to tweak the angular equilibrium as well. Not sure which rotation axis is the one that controlls pointing up/down.

 

you could also set the linear and angular maxima/minima to stop the bones from falling down, but only if you NEVER want them to go below a certaint point in relation their respective parent bones.

 

 

edit: just saw in your xml file that you dont use linear movement at all. in that case the angular equilibrium values are what you need to tweak.

note that as you have a chain of bones you will need different values for each, as each bone carries the weight of all that follow. The earlier the bone's position in the chain, the more weight is dragging it down and thus the "higher you need to hang it".

 

That actually sounds like a much easier answer than I was expecting, I guess I'm not done with my tail after all :classic_tongue:.

Zaknea

Zaknea

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, DarkFireTim said:

 

That actually sounds like a much easier answer than I was expecting, I guess I'm not done with my tail after all :classic_tongue:.

I've gone back to a lot of my older projects now that I'm more experienced lol, but yes, Changer is 100% correct on using equilibrium.  That's how I figured it out, I put in huge-ish numbers and could more easily tell what was going on (usually).

 

I've gone through my nif a few times, I just can not pin point what the difference is between the two meshes where the collision works on one but not on the other... CBBE naked bodies and hands don't have any xmls attached to them, so I know that isn't the problem...

 

If I can't figure it out by the end of the day tomorrow, I'll post em up.  Maybe someone here can see the forest from the trees.

khumak

khumak

Posted
Posted

Still holding out hope that someone will eventually release a version that's a bit more user friendly to get working.  I'm fine with using Bodyslide to tweak my armors to my prefered body shape, but nifscope is too much work for me.  I did watch that video someone posted showing HDT hair physics and that was pretty cool, but I think I'll keep using CBP until someone that knows what they're doing comes up with something you can use without being an expert on meshes.  If I understand right, it sounds like we need body/armor/hair meshes that have "bones" in the right places for HDT and that also have bodyslide support.

Changer

Changer

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, khumak said:

Still holding out hope that someone will eventually release a version that's a bit more user friendly to get working.  I'm fine with using Bodyslide to tweak my armors to my prefered body shape, but nifscope is too much work for me.  I did watch that video someone posted showing HDT hair physics and that was pretty cool, but I think I'll keep using CBP until someone that knows what they're doing comes up with something you can use without being an expert on meshes.  If I understand right, it sounds like we need body/armor/hair meshes that have "bones" in the right places for HDT and that also have bodyslide support.

if you just want breast and butt bounce then you dont need nifscope at all. any equip working with cbp can be made to work with hdt smp simply by adding it to the xml file. But i would not recommend you to get SMP only for that. CBP does a pretty good job in that area with minimum stability/performance impact.

SMP is rather something for you, if you want hair/cloth physics. And adding these things to non-SMP meshes will always (possibly not always but for QUITE a while) require editing them. I would not get my hopes up for a tool for it any time soon.

t3h0th3r

t3h0th3r

Posted
Posted
On 4/11/2018 at 3:36 AM, Zaknea said:

I've gone back to a lot of my older projects now that I'm more experienced lol, but yes, Changer is 100% correct on using equilibrium.  That's how I figured it out, I put in huge-ish numbers and could more easily tell what was going on (usually).

 

I've gone through my nif a few times, I just can not pin point what the difference is between the two meshes where the collision works on one but not on the other... CBBE naked bodies and hands don't have any xmls attached to them, so I know that isn't the problem...

 

If I can't figure it out by the end of the day tomorrow, I'll post em up.  Maybe someone here can see the forest from the trees.

Renaming the baseshape to one of the xmls is just the equivalent of linking them via NiString. So i suspect your gloves miss the bones that the xml uses for collisions. Check if the nif has the bones mentioned in the xml, and if not rename them to the next parent. If the bones don’t have any weights they will have been removed when optimizing in nifskope. hth. 

Vyxenne

Vyxenne

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, Changer said:

SMP is rather something for you, if you want hair/cloth physics. And adding these things to non-SMP meshes will always (possibly not always but for QUITE a while) require editing them. I would not get my hopes up for a tool for it any time soon.

I definitely want hair physics, but I generally don't wear enough "cloth" for "cloth physics" to even be possible. The two physics types I really want are hair and earrings. When you say "cloth physics," is that a broad area that really means "equippable item physics" and therefore includes earrings? Or does it literally mean what it says and therefore applies only to flouncy skirts, capes and long gowns and gown-like armors?

 

Yes, I realize this is a dumb question to many who understand what the SMP-Physics terminology means, but I'm asking so I can understand what I'm reading as I follow this thread in anticipation of some user-friendly version of hair and earring physics. Thanks.

DarkFireTim

DarkFireTim

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

I definitely want hair physivcs, but I generally don't wear enough "cloth" for "cloth physics" to even be possible. The two physics types I really want are hair and earrings. When you say "cloth physics," is that a broad area that really means "equippable item physics" and therefore includes earrings? Or does it literally mean what it says and therefore applies only to flouncy skirts, capes and long gowns and gown-like armors?

 

Yes, I realize this is a dumb question to many who understand what the SMP-Physics terminology means, but I'm asking so I can understand what I'm reading as I follow this thread in anticipation of some user-friendly version of hair and earring physics. Thanks.

Its not a dumb question. However it does point out an aspect of SMP physics that seems to not have been conveyed properly. Someone please correct me if I'm off base with this explanation, but all the physics are is a sheet of names and variables that tell the game "when force, or gravity, is exerted on this point it can respond in these ways to this distance and then any left over force is transferred to this other point". As such there is no such thing as a specific physics type. Each individual nif, no matter whether its cloth, metal, or meat, will need its own tweaked set of variables. You can borrow someones, or somethings, variables as a starting point; as an example I borrowed the variables from the Traveler wig in the KS hair pack for the tail I was working on earlier, but you will then have to tweak it yourself to account for the differences between projects. Things like the difference in collision shapes. We tend to talk about the problems were having here in the thread and I'm sure that makes it seem difficult but its actually surprisingly easy to do, especially if you run SSE in windowed mode so you can edit the xml on the fly and see how that changes things. You'll have to reequip the whatever your working on to get the changes to propagate.

 

As for hair and earrings you can use right now, I found a pack of wigs and earrings that have been converted to SSE SMP and have been released. The website I found the wigs on has had something happen to it so all I can share is the onedrive link

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=8b1553526284b368&id=8B1553526284B368!526&authkey=!ABqw58EnFiVO9qA

 

The earrings were posted in this thread, post #395 by farass

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/68731-hdt-smp-for-sse/?page=16

 

The earrings work out of the box, like 80% of the wigs work out of the box. The few wigs that don't only need some xml edits to work properly, so its a good project to get your feet wet. It works enough to use and your free to experiment with the broken ones, after all they're broken. If you want to give fixing them a try I suggest these SMP guides

 

"A Guide to HDT SMP Users/Modders" by Treota = Its easy to understand and the author is both active and helpful, it can take a few days for him to test things and get back to you

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/3800385-a-guide-to-hdt-smp-usersmodders/page-1 

 

"[TUTORIAL] How to make HDT meshes work with HDT SMP" by Prz = Once you have an understanding of what everything in the xml is this guide is helpful

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/68070-tutorial-how-to-make-hdt-meshes-work-with-hdt-smp/

 

"[Tutorial] Customize your bounce xml to your desires [HDT SMP]" by Prz = This guide is very helpful for tweaking your xml and getting your movement just how you like it

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/71480-tutorial-customize-your-bounce-xml-to-your-desires-hdt-smp/

 

 

 

EDITED - 1:38PM 4/13/2018

 

When I say out of the box I mean with no edits to the xml or nif on your part, you'll still need to install the base SMP files and make sure your using the right version of SSE (1_5_23),  and SKSE64 (2.0.6). If you need to go back to a previous version of SSE this guide will help

https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/611h5e/guide_how_to_download_older_versions_of_a_game_on/

3
Vyxenne

Vyxenne

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, DarkFireTim said:

Its not a dumb question. However it does point out an aspect of SMP physics that seems to not have been conveyed properly. <snippage>

Thank you, DarkFireTim. I'll give the wigs and earrings a shot. Do you, by any chance, know of a ready-to-eat :tongue: SMP-HDT-Framework installation? I'm blocking Steam updates pending some mod updates, so I'm still on 1.5.23 / 2.0.6.

Zaknea

Zaknea

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

Thank you, DarkFireTim. I'll give the wigs and earrings a shot. Do you, by any chance, know of a ready-to-eat :tongue: SMP-HDT-Framework installation? I'm blocking Steam updates pending some mod updates, so I'm still on 1.5.23 / 2.0.6.

I'm using the same still, I don't think SMP has been updated / still works and I'm afraid to try.

 

Give the earrings a shot first.  It's about as simple as you can get.  There are also some Earring files here that you you can copy off of to literally get any earring to work the same way for you until you learn how to get them moving the way that YOU want them to...  Unlike PE, SMP is a really small xml, so it is pretty easy to look at and figure out.  This is coming from a person who opened up one PE xml and said, fuck this lol.

 

Once you get a few simple things to work for you I would move on to hair.  The amount of nodes on hair can get intimidating if you're new to it.  Also, some hairs have so many nodes you may have to split shapes so you don't get the "stretch to the middle of the cell" issues I had on some of my projects.  I don't know exactly how many bones you can have on one shape, but I'm thinking it's somewhere around 80.  I haven't tested it out enough.

Vyxenne

Vyxenne

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Zaknea said:

I'm using the same still, I don't think SMP has been updated / still works and I'm afraid to try.

 

Give the earrings a shot first.  It's about as simple as you can get.  There are also some Earring files here that you you can copy off of to literally get any earring to work the same way for you until you learn how to get them moving the way that YOU want them to...  Unlike PE, SMP is a really small xml, so it is pretty easy to look at and figure out.  This is coming from a person who opened up one PE xml and said, fuck this lol.

 

Once you get a few simple things to work for you I would move on to hair.  The amount of nodes on hair can get intimidating if you're new to it.  Also, some hairs have so many nodes you may have to split shapes so you don't get the "stretch to the middle of the cell" issues I had on some of my projects.  I don't know exactly how many bones you can have on one shape, but I'm thinking it's somewhere around 80.  I haven't tested it out enough.

I'm totally fine with that plan, but without the SMP framework I'm stuck at the starting gate. I have read that the framework is available on 9damao.com, but I'm not able to get it there because the buttons are images instead of text and therefore untranslatable. I literally see everything on the page, all but the buttons in English, but have no idea what to push, pull or lick to download any files. Also, for all I know some of the buttons say "Press To Install Keylogger" or similar- I'm very leery of Chinese and Russian sites- so many of them treat malware distribution as the national sport.

 

I have seen several links in this thread to various SMP files, some of which were undoubtedly the framework I need, but I can't find those links now and since I don't know the file names (or archive names) involved I don't know what I'm looking for- and that makes it very difficult to find.

aDeadlyrtwinkie

aDeadlyrtwinkie

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, DarkFireTim said:

 

As for hair and earrings you can use right now, I found a pack of wigs and earrings that have been converted to SSE SMP and have been released. The website I found the wigs on has had something happen to it so all I can share is the onedrive link

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=8b1553526284b368&id=8B1553526284B368!526&authkey=!ABqw58EnFiVO9qA

 

Hey Darkfire, I appreciate the links to the wigs and the earrings :smile: although when I downloaded SMP project wig mod my skyrim doesn't seem to run anymore. I had to disable the mod to run the game again unfortunately :confused:

 

DarkFireTim

DarkFireTim

Posted
Posted

@Vyxenne

 

Yeah I can help with that. If your using CBBE you can download and use the SMP files provided on the nexus page, they'll cover all base body shapes and a good number of more fun things. As for the base SMP files you need to grab two downloads from Hydrogensayshdt's posts, they're English download links so no worries about dodgy buttons, but you will need to make an account for the Chinese forum and reply to the thread before you can download. Google translate covered everything for me and I took the forced post as an opportunity to thank her(?) for making Tamriel a better place :classic_tongue:.

 

The first thread you need is

http://www.9damao.com/thread-61877-1-1.html

your looking for the link "hdtSSEFramework_1_5_23.7z"

 

The second thread you want is

http://www.9damao.com/thread-61878-1-1.html

your looking for the link "hdtSSEPhysics_1_5_23.7z"

 

EDITED - 6:53PM 4/13/2018

 

@aDeadlyrtwinkie

 

Without seeing your install directory I can't say for sure, but that sounds like a the core SMP files aren't installed properly. Makes sure the SMP files you have are unedited, I'd use the links in this post, and reinstall the core SMP files. You should end up with two files "hdtSSEFramework.dll", "hdtSSEPhysics.dll", and the folder "hdtSkinnedMeshConfigs" in your data\SKSE\Plugins folder. If that folder doesn't exist then double check to make sure you have SKSE64 installed correctly, and remember you need SKSE64 version 2.0.6 and SkyrimSE version 1_5_23.

1

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...