Fallout 4! In like 4 1/2 months, its real.

[mosmos]

Have i pre-ordered fallout   nope

Going to buy fallout the instant i see it in the local store  nope

 

WHY ?

 

1:All the official / unofficial bug fixes that going to come

2:All the dlc stuff that going to come

3:Mods needs time to develop ( well if fallout going to have any )

 

So there's my opinion of the game

 

 

[Kendo 2]

Bethesda can and will do whatever they want.  When they attempted monetized modding they changed the CK's ELUA.  How can they get away with changing the license of software you already have installed?  They used a STEAM forced update to lock down the CK and when the update was installed to unlock the CK (the old steam_api.dll replaced with a new one) low and behold the ELUA for the CK was changed to reflect that they or STEAM can charge money for mods and the authors get next to nothing.

They did that with existing software already installed on people's computers and they got away with it.  If Bethesda wants to lock down modding and limit it to Bethesda.net only they can.  If they want to DRM it and block nude and sex mods they can.  It doesn't matter what Todd Howard says.  Bethesda can change its corporate mind about any aspect at any time and there is dick-all we can do about it but not buy THEIR NEXT GAME.  It will be too late to balk at what they do or don't do to FO4.  And no one will know anything for sure until two or three months after the game is released and the new GECK comes out.

 

The mod climate is changing and it won't be what people are used to.  That's a certainty.

[ElectricSheep]

 

 

Did I say I was excited? Did I say that my opinion was better?

You didn't have to, as your point was clear: stop being negative about something I want to be positive about.

 

 

 

I have watched Community Contributors devolve into hurtful arguments..... over opinions about something that IS NOT EVEN OUT YET...

SO WHAT IT'S NOT RELEASED YET? We have a bunch of materials at this point and 22 years worth of Bethesda open world games (Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim - plus all the expansions/DLC). If you seriously can't see a pattern and want to pretend that there's now way we can have any idea as to what this game is going to be then I can't help you.

 

 

 

It's not a healthy environment at the moment, and I see no pleasure to be gained from the thread in its current state

I find it much less healthy when people are forced to agree with each other and any criticism has to be dealt with some sneaky, faux amicable snark. That said, I'm yet to see as this topic devolves into the waterfall of vitriol some people claim it to be. 

 

So far the most detrimental posts are by people who don't like what somebody else said and feel inclined to sabotage the topic with the typical "go away nobody likes you because you're saying negative stuff about something that's a total mystery".

[DoctaSax]

How about I just make 2 threads. One called "Things I like about FO4", the other "Things I dislike about FO4". People can post in both, either or neither, but only the kind of posts that they're meant for. Never the twain shall meet, each to their own corner.

 

[Guest]

How about I just make 2 threads. One called "Things I like about FO4", the other "Things I dislike about FO4". People can post in both, either or neither, but only the kind of posts that they're meant for. Never the twain shall meet, each to their own corner.

 

Please do.

This thread became difficult to follow. And already a few times required Moderators to clean it up.

But considering that in a little more than a week the game will be out, is it worth it?

[Kendo 2]

@Doc

Or the same handful of people who try to dictate what should and should not be posted in every thread they participate in stop doing that and just leave the other members alone. 

[DoctaSax]

But considering that in a little more than a week the game will be out, is it worth it?

I can turn that around and say "it's not even out yet, and I'm already seriously considering this."

It's always fanboy this and troll that, being positive is naive or being negative is premature... it just doesn't end. Splitting up the debate might just be a relief for people on both sides.

[GrimReaper]

Nobody dictates anything because unless you're a moderator you can't stop people from posting. It's just 'but muh opinion' vs 'but muh opinion' at this point. If you can't deal with people not agreeing with you, go make your own little comfort zone on tumblr or something. Personal attacks were thrown from both corners and those should be dealt with, other than that I personally don't see a point in splitting up the thread. A forum shouldn't be your personal safe space, it's there for everyone who wants to participate.

 

But of course, since I am no moderator, it is not in my power to dictate what anyone should and shouldn't do.

[Nixea]

Makes me wonder how this thread will end up once the game is released and most of us have actually played it.

[Jeffrey Lane]

Makes me wonder how this thread will end up once the game is released and most of us have actually played it.

 

empty cuz everyone (well half atleast) will be playing or full of complaints about bugs or something.. so not much different i reckon.

[slutofshades]

 

Did I say I was excited? Did I say that my opinion was better?

 

The whole point of my post is that I have been coming to this thread for the last week or so and watched it devolve from a discussion about possibilities into a Pre-emptive witch hunt, for all intents and purposes.

 

I have watched Community Contributors devolve into hurtful arguments..... over opinions about something that IS NOT EVEN OUT YET...

 

It's not a healthy environment at the moment, and I see no pleasure to be gained from the thread in its current state, unless bitching for bitching's sake is what gets some people off... this is the internet, so... sure that's a possibility.

 

I have always loved the LL community, save for one or two bad apples it has always come across as a community that is overall positive, and adult enough to settle differences in debate, rather than shit slinging.... but the last 10 - 12 pages is a tarnish to that image. I am not saying that you are not entitled to your criticism.... but there are only so many times "Looks terrible" needs to be said about screenshots.... there are only so many times it needs highlighting that this game might not live up to your expectations.

 

I am not asking for people to blindly fangasm over something... that would be just as redundant as tearing it apart, because.... it isnt out yet...

 

I am just looking for some neutrality.... and civility between the opposing sides. Hate to see people in this community sniping at each other.

 

*sigh*

 

 

Let me put it this way:

 

We're dealing with a long-standing franchise, which has had a fanbase for a long time, that is about to undergo two major changes that may, and will have consequences. Two major tenents of the game, that this community especially has held near and dear to their hearts, is about to change, and nobody here fully knows what the fallout of this will be yet. What are those changes?

 

 

1) Character creation: The fans of both Bethesda's TES and Fallout franchises are used to an extremely open ended approach to character creation. One in which you could make nearly any kind of character that you want, which has attracted a wide selection of people to these games in the first place, because it was giving them something that they were not getting elsewhere.

 

Now, we're looking at a new game from them which is putting rather severe limitations on this aspect of the game, a change that some may be alright with, others feel excludes them, and a few like myself find a complete dealbreaker. But ultimately, it's damn near a complete 180 compared to what we used to expect from this company.

 

 

2) The modding scene: Do i even need to explain the importance of the PC modding scene of the TES and FO games and what it means to people here? I think not..

 

Now though, Bethesda is changing the rules. To what? Nobody knows! It could be as benign as "it will remain unchanged, but now mods can also be made for Consoles", or it could be as devestating to this community as "There will now be DRM on mods, no sexual content can be made! All mods MUST be uploaded to Bethesda.net and verified by our admins! Modders in violation of our terms will be prosicuted!". And not a single one of us here knows what to make of it yet.

 

 

 

And you expect people not to discuss this? To not speculate about it? To not raise any critisisms or concearns of it or what this could mean to us as individuals or as a community? Just because: "it's not out yet"?

 

 

Slutofshades.. how exactly did you think this was going to go down with an established fanbase, and one on the internet, of all places?

 

 

 

I am not asking for the people with concerns not to voice them... There are plenty of concerns to have. Perhaps I was a little too zealous with the "Lets focus on what might be good about it" comment... not the result I was looking for.

 

I am just reading a lot of... animosity? Is that the word? One camp is trashing the other, and vice versa, and its becoming an unpleasant thread to be part of. I have nothing against debate, or speculation... but the last 10 pages have just been a whole cloud of contempt, not only for the game itself, but for the two different camps.

 

Again, not asking anyone NOT to have a certain opinion... or to avoid voicing it. It would be nice to see both sides discuss both good and bad without firing shots across the broadside though.

 

This isnt pointed to You Coops, just your post was the last one responding me so I replied from it.

 

Regarding your post though... I hadn't seen any announcement that Beth.net was going to be the -only- way to host mods. Is that confirmed?

[Guest endgameaddiction]

 

 

 

 

I am not asking for the people with concerns not to voice them... There are plenty of concerns to have. Perhaps I was a little too zealous with the "Lets focus on what might be good about it" comment... not the result I was looking for.

 

I am just reading a lot of... animosity? Is that the word? One camp is trashing the other, and vice versa, and its becoming an unpleasant thread to be part of. I have nothing against debate, or speculation... but the last 10 pages have just been a whole cloud of contempt, not only for the game itself, but for the two different camps.

 

Again, not asking anyone NOT to have a certain opinion... or to avoid voicing it. It would be nice to see both sides discuss both good and bad without firing shots across the broadside though.

 

This isnt pointed to You Coops, just your post was the last one responding me so I replied from it.

 

Regarding your post though... I hadn't seen any announcement that Beth.net was going to be the -only- way to host mods. Is that confirmed?

 

 

Nothing is confirmed. The thing is, after late April this year, I've come to believe a lot of people distrust Bethesda. Even when TES6 comes around I believe people will still contemplate whether paid mods will have any effect. The way they presented this NU system by pretty much forcing it behind our backs has made it clear they not only unpredictable, but unfamiliar with the mod community.

 

They could of taken different measurements of this situation by being more informative with the community. Doing a poll and taking people's opinions through, I don't know, Nexus? It is a very large mod site. Or they could of done it within their Beth site. But the way they did all this has left some deep scars.

 

No, nothing is confirmed as of yet. it's all rumors and speculations. At this point, only time will tell. And many of us (including myself) are sleeping with one eye open. And if this is bad, wait till TES6 comes around. It caters a larger group. It'll get flooded with much more pages. Especially here.

 

Now I have my pros and cons about Fallout 4. What I've seen so far isn't anything to stop me from playing the game. But if they lock down on mods, that will be the end for many modders and mod users. And it will just take away that freedom of modding. The whole reason why I even began to play Bethesda games. Fallout 3 being my first. But because of past modding from previous games. I guess at the time when I was looking for something different that I could mod I was very fortunate to find Fallout 3 so apart from actually liking the storyline and the post-apocalyptic theme, it was a fresh new start on something completely different then I was accustom to.

 

I hope that Fallout 4 continues to deliver that experience, but again, if lock down on mods occurs, I'm afraid that it will be the end of my days with Bethesda games. I hope that doesn't happen though.

 

[ElectricSheep]

 

 

I hadn't seen any announcement that Beth.net was going to be the -only- way to host mods. Is that confirmed?

No it's not, and at least for now it seems we're safe from paid mods:

 

 

[Guest endgameaddiction]

Lets not forget that Bethesda has the right to reserve any changes upon their TOS or any form of contract if they wish. No different than the policies and TOS on forum communities. They can say what ever they want now and change that in 6 months from now. So, I wouldn't hold my breath on that just yet.

[DrVec]

Only 7 days 00 hours 20 minutes and 55 seconds.. okay 53 seconds.. 52..

Cant waiting. I saw any news but I hope F4 is not a flop. nonoo I'll will love it.

[ElectricSheep]

Which is why I said "at least for now".

 

But I doubt they are going to try the paid mods thing again; it was a disaster that cannot be undone. However, making mods exclusive to their site (as in, you can share plugins with your friends but if you want to upload them to the Internet it's on our site only) and charging a small subscription fee - I can totally see that happening. There's a fortune to be made here and doing so won't piss off console players, who will have to pay just as PC users. A tiny percent of the money from the subscriptions can be offered to modders or/and a more effective system of donations can be implemented. With all the bucks to be made on the console sheep, I'm sure that more than enough modders would flip (Bethesda would probably contract some of them to give this thing a kick in the beginning).

 

We've ALL seen it; modders putting some silly armor/weapon mods behind a paywall, modders putting pop-ups in their free mods encouraging to buy paid versions, endless rants about how modding for free is labor hence modders should be paid and mod users are disgusting to deny that etc., etc. When you put money on the table people start going nuts.

 

tl;dr

4th dimensional thinking: paid mods without paids mods - that's sooo Bethesda.

[Kendo 2]

The full EULA for Fallout 4.

http://store.steampowered.com//eula/377160_eula_0

 

Standard Bethesda bullshit except when you get to 'THE SOFTWARE UTILITIES, IF ANY.'  It mentions “Customized Game Materials” but what that entails is undefined.  Looking at the verbiage they are implying they own everything once it is loaded into their editor (section a).  By the way it's worded they think they can claim ownership of content that doesn't rely on models or processes of their software.  That's not the case.  They can't force an interest in things they have no vetted interest in.

Then there's this; (d) Customized Game Materials shall not contain modifications to any other executable files; 

Executable files?  You mean something like FNIS to add animations or using a mod manager to make your own BSAs?  What about the exe for a script extender?  Does that mean we can't use script components Bethesda didn't author?  Are they fucking high?

 

Reading through the whole license a few times there isn't a force majure or a remedy clause.  That is important for the following reason;

 

 

MISCELLANEOUS; GOVERNING LAW; ARBITRATION:

This Agreement represents the complete agreement concerning this license between the parties and supersedes all prior agreements and

representations between them. It may be amended only by a writing executed by both parties. If any provision of this Agreement is held to be

unenforceable for any reason, such provision shall be reformed only to the extent necessary to make it enforceable and the remaining

provisions of this Agreement shall not be affected.

The way that's written, Bethesda cannot backdoor users with adendums or alerations without the user's consent.  Not even an act of God can be considered just cause.

To anyone intending to play or mod FO4, you had better make a copy of the license you get at the instance of download for the game and any utilities authored by Bethesda.

 

What I think will happen: FO4 for the PC will have the license in the link above.  Once the editor is released the licence will change giving Bethesda sole proprietary rights over the “Customized Game Materials” they keep mentioning and monetized modding for both the PC and Console will be a market Bethesda creates and controls through Bethesda.net.

 

For those of you reading the license and saying 'See! No paid mods!' you had better read it again.  There is a huge legal gulf between the LICENSOR (as in Bethesda legally styled in all caps) and 'you' (the end user and unstyled).  The prohibitions against modding for money aren't against the LICENSOR, they are against 'you'.

 

Read section (g) under 'THE SOFTWARE UTILITIES, IF ANY.'

“THIS MATERIAL IS NOT MADE, GUARANTEED OR SUPPORTED BY THE PUBLISHER OF THE SOFTWARE OR ITS AFFILIATES.”

Free mods for everyone, huh? Why is there verbiage in the license protecting the LICENSOR from any liabilty for 3rd party modifications?  Yeah, because sometime in the near future when you go to Bethesda.net to download a mod that language is going to be at the bottom of the page to protect THEM from faulty merchandise before you click 'Buy it Now'.

 

 

[ElectricSheep]

Some next gen animations:

https://vid.me/xdRA

http://i.4cdn.org/v/1446505018129.webm

http://i.4cdn.org/v/1446301924788.webm

[Kendo 2]

When she's leaning forward to talk it's like she's saying WOOF! WOOF!    And I was called a troll for pointing out those animations.  Go figure.

[Kaz Aanh]

Why laser weapon has a recoil?

 

Don't start with the " muhh retro-sci-fi laws"

 

[greyscale]

Some next gen animations:

 

https://vid.me/xdRA

http://i.4cdn.org/v/1446505018129.webm

http://i.4cdn.org/v/1446301924788.webm

 

 

 

All these funny looking animations will be great though for modding!

 

Now she just need to be naked and walk around in Diamond City as a dog xD

 

 

Why laser weapon has a recoil?

 

That is as much recoil as the rifles had in Fo3, just the force of all that energy blasting out, games doesn't have to make sense just make stuff up

[Guest]

 

The full EULA for Fallout 4.

http://store.steampowered.com//eula/377160_eula_0

 

... All Kendo said ...

 

 

Point ( c ) of the "SOFTWARE UTILITIES" section (the "level editor or similar") states:

 

"( c ) Customized Game Materials must be distributed solely for free;"

Mods cannot ask for money (this my my humble lecture)

 

"( b ) [not typing all of it]"

Is a reinforcement of the point ( c )

 

"(d) Customized Game Materials shall not contain modifications to any other executable files;"

You can't change the executable files. They is a pretty standard term to avoid piracy.

 

"(e) ..."

You can use "vanilla" items for your mod, but you CANNOT use the items for other external software (No porting of meshes to Witcher, for example) The big doubt is (Can I port it to FO3 or Skyrim? I don't know, reading the point you can't.)

 

"(f) ..."

You cannot use copyrighted material, when you don't own the rights, inside your mod. (My lecture.)

 

"(g) ..."

This is difficult. The part that relies Bethesda from supporting the mod is clear and understandable. But "You have to place explicit credits to Bethesda in your mod"???"

 

"(a) [i am not typing all of it]"

My lecture is: we own what you do and we may redistribute it. (But here I am not sure.)

 

 

Edit: I changed a "CANNOT" to "CAN" on point (e) (And fixed some chars being converted to other symbols.)

 

[DoctaSax]

Exclusive ownership under a)? Wow.

[Guest]

Exclusive ownership under a)? Wow.

 

Yeah. I am struggling with this point.

I don't get it.

 

Tomorrow I will ask my legal team to give me lights on this statement.

(And I have to pay at least a couple of beers to one of them for the courtesy unrelated to my work.)

[bjornk]

You cannot sell your mod (without paying us), because the stuff you make using our game and tools belongs to us. That's what I get from the EULA. They are just making sure that nobody else can sell mods for the game other than Bethesda.