Sacremas Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 This may have been obvious but also may be a relief to some of you, Boris Voronstov is still on board modding and getting ready for Fallout 4. Hey Boris,Are you planning on creating ENB for Fallout 4? Or are you done with the Fallout series? I'm waiting for Fallout 4 as next project for modding and hope to do something similar to Skyrim version. I hope Bugthesda will not bring any surprises like Rockstar did.
Kaz Aanh Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Does it matter. It will sell amazingly well. It will win lots of awards and GOTY again. Mods will fix it ( again ) I had no expectations. You will buy it anyways. And season pass too.
Sacremas Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Why exactly though is that? I mean I'm not saying you're wrong to think like this, in fact many probably will, I'm just wondering what about that scenario strikes you as wrong and something you don't want to play? Chasing after your baby or whatever he will be at that point (it could be his great-grandchild you find) isn't that different than chasing after your dad after all. The false tragedy of it all, maybe being forced to play a "mature" character above or below a certain age, etc? I mean like I said gay players is really just the very obvious issue that stands out, I'm just curious what yours are. And I'm pretty sure alternate start mods will show up fairly soon, within a year probably, so you can pick it up then if that's your main issue and probably get a game with far less bugs in the process. The scenario where your character is forced into a sexual and romantic relationship with a man, and moreso, is presented as beeing happy about that fact. I'm a childhood rape victim, a man raped me when i was 8 years old, so yeah, i have more than just a few issues with men and male sexuality especially, and this is more than a little triggering for me as a result of that. I know that this is not going to be a problem for most people, mine is not the typical situation (thankfully!), but it is for me. I can only hope for alternate start mods to fix that, but even those won't help if Bethesda has made this family unit a major part of the game's narrative that either constantly gets brought up, or is the main driving force of the game's story, which i fear it might be (why would they make such a drastic choice for the characters start and backstory, unless they were planning to do something with it?). Ouch, okay that is some very serious shit, and I can understand completely, no judgements at all. And now we're the same age, yikes, so this has been a life-long ruin. I hope whoever did that got it bad is all I can say. And also by the way I hope that if anyone tells you that "it's been ages, get over it!" that you're close enough and with good enough boots to ruin their testicles/ovaries. Alternate start might help you still to enjoy the game, even if the worst case scenario is a thing (and simply because of how dull it would be I hope it's not, I hope this is just a driving motivator that can get dumped after a while like Dad was), simply by placing you in the Wasteland and skipping all of pre-war and never starting the quest. Look at Skyrim, there's not really all that much you miss by just never going to Helgen after your alternate start. Dragons, Lydia, Breezehome? That's about it, and a really forgettable MQ. Shouts are crap if you don't mod them, even modded shouts you'll forget to use if you're a mage. Fallout 3 was a bit more complex what with the MQ leading to the Enclave and an end to the story, if you never went after Dad you'd never see the Enclave. I fucking hate the Enclave in Fallout 3 including that of Broken Steel so that's not really a negative for me, but still. As long as Bethesda didn't tie too much into the MQ skipping it should be fine, and you can go shoot some raiders in the face with a double-barrled shotgun with the rest of us.
ElectricSheep Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 (...) It took me quite a while to see all of Skyrim shortcomings so I'd like to at least play several hours before I can form any kind of coherent opinion, for now I haven't seen anything cringeworthy nor awe-inspiring so I can't understand how some people can make such definitive judgments before actually playing the game. Man, I'm really tired with the "but but BUT mods will fix it!" argument. Not everything can be modded out, and even if it can, the result often leaves a lot to be desired. A mod that would fix FO3 story in the manner you're describing is yet to be made, and that game didn't even have the voiced protagonist thing, which makes such a mod 100 times less likely to happen.
GrimReaper Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 FO4 will prolly be an average game, but that would make it better than the rest of the games that have been released recently. Also you guys are putting way too much energy into speculating if the game will be good or the worst thing ever. Buy it or don't, play it or don't, like it or don't, just do the thing you want. It's beyond my understanding how people can be so agitated about this, really.
Sacremas Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 (...) It took me quite a while to see all of Skyrim shortcomings so I'd like to at least play several hours before I can form any kind of coherent opinion, for now I haven't seen anything cringeworthy nor awe-inspiring so I can't understand how some people can make such definitive judgments before actually playing the game. Man, I'm really tired with the "but but BUT mods will fix it!" argument. Not everything can be modded out, and even if it can, the result often leaves a lot to be desired. A mod that would fix FO3 story in the manner you're describing is yet to be made, and that game didn't even have the voiced protagonist thing, which makes such a mod 100 times less likely to happen. I think you qouted the wrong apologist. I don't think anyone fixed the Fallout 3 plotline because there was no need. Power armor training was granted numerous ways, manuals, perks, etc through mods, and I don't think I'm the only one to hate the Enclave. Best parts of Fallout 3 was searching around the wastleand, exploring in general, doing side-quests, raiding Vaults and metro stations, etc. Or just use it as a platform for mods. And none of that needed a big change, there were alternate start mods that simply skipped the childhood stuff and plunked you outisde the Vault on level 2 and sent you off. A console command from the main menu could do that without a mod. It was a poor plot, but everyone ever had a dad, even if said dad was never around like mine, it was relatable, and it was over relatively soon. Fallout 4's story is as proven potentially offensive to a lot of people, the substantial gay community is likely to ask for such a mod pretty soon. And yes it's not going to be a 100 % success, I mean Alternate Start was... downright cringe-worthy at times, parts of the game will be broken but it can be partially bandaged if not fixed. Oh I got an idea; mod to replace your SO with a robot nanny, and the child was created artifically with either mechanical womb or insemination. Lots of gay couples still want children, and no sexual contact with opposite sex required. So that takes care of about... 20-30 % tops of the issues with that whole scenario, but is a start, but would depend on vault life and the fate of the spouse if it's possible. It's one of those things in the game Bethesda will really have to impress me way beyond what they have so far for me to accept had to be a thing to begin with and they couldn't have found an option rather than doing it "because". Because so far this is a point where it has damaged the game's potential way more than adding to it so far, much more so than the voiced bit or anything else.
bp70 Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 still wondering if a list of names that codsworth can say has been released or is in the works.
ElectricSheep Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I think you qouted the wrong apologist. As a matter of fact I did. Best parts of Fallout 3 was searching around the wastleand, exploring in general, doing side-quests, raiding Vaults and metro stations, etc. Or just use it as a platform for mods. And none of that needed a big change (...) Except that's not the plot. there were alternate start mods that simply skipped the childhood stuff and plunked you outisde the Vault on level 2 and sent you off. A console command from the main menu could do that without a mod. So we're talking about a mod that simply skipped the beginning without really changing anything. I don't see how this is relevant. An "alternate start" is not playing as someone else. Fallout 4's story is as proven potentially offensive to a lot of people, the substantial gay community is likely to ask for such a mod pretty soon. It's not "offensive", it simply gives the player a lesser sense of freedom, even if it's just on meta level. That someone will ask for such a mod does not mean it's going to be ever made. I find it very unlikely. And yes it's not going to be a 100 % success, I mean Alternate Start was... downright cringe-worthy at times, parts of the game will be broken but it can be partially bandaged if not fixed. ... And by this point you should already realize how much of a strawman your whole "argument" is. I'm commenting on a fact, you're just coming up with shit because "maybe", "someone", "someday". Woulda, shoulda... Oh I got an idea; mod to replace your SO with a robot nanny, and the child was created artifically with either mechanical womb or insemination. Lots of gay couples still want children, and no sexual contact with opposite sex required. So that takes care of about... 20-30 % tops of the issues with that whole scenario, but is a start, but would depend on vault life and the fate of the spouse if it's possible.
Jeffrey Lane Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 still wondering if a list of names that codsworth can say has been released or is in the works. i looked last night and couldnt find one anywhere.
Jarka Ruus Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Character creation: (female and male) https://vid.me/KLJW https://vid.me/s8Bw At this point it's pretty much confirmed that you can at least alter your body shape from thin to muscular and large.
Kendo 2 Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 This isn't directed at anyone. I'm typing my opinions and insights because I'm allowed to have them. From the scant traces of gameplay I've seen so far I'm not impressed. To me the game looks like it is not any more advanced than Skyrim. This is shame because I was really looking forward to a new modern setting game with guns that I could mod. I even went as far as to start doing some light scripting for Skyrim so I could be up to speed when the FO4 GECK is released after the first of the year. What's really rubbing me the wrong way are the animations I've seen. Kargrin has posted a few links and the characters are very stiff; moreso than in Skyrim. Before Skyrim this wouldn't have been a problem but now it is. FO4 is going to use behaviors like Skyrim. A lot of the code for Havok is MIA (along with other key elements) and Fore isn't going to remake FNIS. Pretty much whatever Bethesda sticks us with stays stuck. The main plot is unappealing to me, or to be more precise the way it is forced during chargen. Maybe I don't want to be the parent looking for a child and grieving over a dead spouse. What I want is irrelevant; the implications of the opening chargen scenes are not. This is going to be very problematic for Alternate Start mods. Players might want a same sex spouse, or no spouse at all. How can one gender be totatlly removed from the chargen process? I've never seen it done in a mod before and that's because it's hard coded into the game. There is no getting away from having two genders for a playable race, and from looking at the game there is only one race; human. From that one race the player can make an African, Asian or European character (or anything in between). An Alternate Start mod isn't going to make having two spouses of the same sex or NO SPOUSE possible. I could be wrong (I am wrong frequently) but the intro chargen scenes and everything leading up to going into the vault is pretty much carved in stone unless there is a new code-monkey genius out there who is going to do the undoable and something that's never been accomplished before; chargen that works with only one gender. Even if a one gender race can be implimented that still leaves the baby looking like a combination of both parents...it still leaves THE FUCKING BABY period. At this point we have no idea how character presets work. There might not be chargen presets at all. So with our hypothetical 'one gender' race we get to see two clones standing at the mirror using the same voice to address one another. That's just lame AND creepy. I've been saying since the monetized modding scam-scheme was first exposed that modding FO4 would not be what people expect. I also predicted we wouldn't be able to change the game the way we could previous Bethesda releases. To us, modding is meshes, textures, scripts, new quests, etc. To Bethesda, modding is their idea farm for the next game release and usable code they poach from the original authors. They don't want the shit they can do themselves and as long as they get code and ideas they didn't have to pay for they're happy. FO4 is what it is. Some people will love it, some people will hate it and some people will just ignore it. No matter the stance we won't be getting the 'it can be modded' game we were hoping for; or at least I won't be.
Coopervane Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 FO4 is what it is. Some people will love it, some people will hate it and some people will just ignore it. No matter the stance we won't be getting the 'it can be modded' game we were hoping for; or at least I won't be. Sadly, i share your fear that this might very well be the case, which is why i'm not holding out much hope for the "modders can fix it" argument. I fully expect that i'll have to give FO4 a pass, and continue playing Skyrim for the next 4 to 6 years
Kendo 2 Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Sadly, i share your fear that this might very well be the case, which is why i'm not holding out much hope for the "modders can fix it" argument. I fully expect that i'll have to give FO4 a pass, and continue playing Skyrim for the next 4 to 6 years I already feel alienated by the game's premise and it's all very offputting. I don't mind being type cast when the game calls for it but there is always an exchange for playing as ME's Shepard, WarnerBro's Batman, or Witcher's Geralt; great plot line, top notch graphics, no bugs (mostly) and a sense that you really are part of a playable story. Bethesda has a hard time delivering any of that to begin with and now they've taken away one of the aspects that makes their games attractive. Instead of making the character my own I'll be stuck as being fucking married AND with a kid. Not only that but now there is self narrative by a voiced protagonist who comments on everything that's clicked on. Geralt does it...when he's involved with a quest and it adds flavor. He doesn't do it all of the time. AND body scaling is back. Sure players are happy; mesh riggers like me get stuck with dealing with that broken shit just like we did with Skyrim. Multiple body meshes and a fucked up skeleton without ninode control to make it happen with mesh swaps and fake scaling. JOY.
jxm Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 FO4 is what it is. Some people will love it, some people will hate it and some people will just ignore it. No matter the stance we won't be getting the 'it can be modded' game we were hoping for; or at least I won't be. And then there might be the little fact to remember that Bethesda is still the only company that brings out games that can be modded to this degree, games that are designed to some degree with mods in mind...I mean just sayin', as there is so much doom and gloom here in many posts. And I like to read the usual "Bethesda sucks because the game is doing this, they force me to play a voiced char, they are not getting "modern", graphics suck, consoles suck,and we don't get to play as an omisexual genderneutral blank page (Hey, I never agreed my Chars was hunting a waterchip, was the Chosen One of some degenerate savages, had a scientist-daddy purifying water, or had spend her last days working to get platinum-chip from A to B as well, so there is that) - I remember something similar when Skyrim came out... Probably not a very prominent opinion I have here, but hey, I agree with this point: Some people will love it, some hate it, some will be left cold by it. Like with any other game out there...
ElectricSheep Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 AND body scaling is back. Sure players are happy; mesh riggers like me get stuck with dealing with that broken shit just like we did with Skyrim. Multiple body meshes and a fucked up skeleton without ninode control to make it happen with mesh swaps and fake scaling. JOY. Yeah, I'd rather have 3 different body shapes to choose from that this slider thing. Moreover, this time around default, as in typical, body shape doesn't even exist as a mesh from how things look, and you will be forced to make clothing/armor for 3 extremes: thin, fat, muscular. This is going to be extremelly annoying.
slutofshades Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Never thought I would see as much negativity about a game that isn't released yet as I have in the last 12 pages..... It's almost depressing. It's a bethesda game, we know from the history that its gonna be buggy. A game this big is bound to have bugs. We also know from history that we have a kickass community who will fix bethesda's faults. However, picking apart the game as it is so far with the little information we have, like carrion to a rotting corpse... it's a little too soon? Sure, limit your hopes and expectations, I sure am, but there are people on this thread dooming the game before its release. Just wait till the damn thing is out, and then have a circlejerk of negativity all you like. There are issues... the sexual/domestic status of the PC seemingly set in stone being one of them... it would have been better, to allow you to change the sex of -both- characters at the start, so you can have a homosexual couple. The whole, finding your kid thing.... I don't get why this is such a ball ache for some of you. Homosexual people have parental desires too you know? Not -all- of them, but probably just as many as straight couples. Hell, even wholely evil dicks are not mutually against children. Adding the fact that this -is- set in the Boston Commonwealth where tech was highest and we had frikkin androids, artificially created kids are not out of the realms of imagination. I just hope, with one week to release, we can lower the negativity and infighting and just, focus on what could be good about the game... save the critique till it is in your hands TO critique.
ElectricSheep Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 And what's the point of complaining about complaining again? I mean, your opinion is better because you're excited and want to hear positive things, while my opinion is not because I'm voicing my criticism? I don't see why should I care about anyone's excitement and stop myself from saying what I want to say - or try to stop you from saying what you want to say for that matter. Let me paraphrase; opinions are like asses: some nice and round, some ugly and saggy, but nobody forces you to look or comment on them.
slutofshades Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 And what's the point of complaining about complaining again? I mean, your opinion is better because you're excited and want to hear positive things, while my opinion is not because I'm voicing my criticism? I don't see why should I care about anyone's excitement and stop myself from saying what I want to say - or try to stop you from saying what you want to say for that matter. Let me paraphrase; opinions are like asses: some nice and round, some ugly and saggy, but nobody forces you to look or comment on them. Did I say I was excited? Did I say that my opinion was better? The whole point of my post is that I have been coming to this thread for the last week or so and watched it devolve from a discussion about possibilities into a Pre-emptive witch hunt, for all intents and purposes. I have watched Community Contributors devolve into hurtful arguments..... over opinions about something that IS NOT EVEN OUT YET... It's not a healthy environment at the moment, and I see no pleasure to be gained from the thread in its current state, unless bitching for bitching's sake is what gets some people off... this is the internet, so... sure that's a possibility. I have always loved the LL community, save for one or two bad apples it has always come across as a community that is overall positive, and adult enough to settle differences in debate, rather than shit slinging.... but the last 10 - 12 pages is a tarnish to that image. I am not saying that you are not entitled to your criticism.... but there are only so many times "Looks terrible" needs to be said about screenshots.... there are only so many times it needs highlighting that this game might not live up to your expectations. I am not asking for people to blindly fangasm over something... that would be just as redundant as tearing it apart, because.... it isnt out yet... I am just looking for some neutrality.... and civility between the opposing sides. Hate to see people in this community sniping at each other.
GrimReaper Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 It's just the usual stuff that happens with every big game release. Some are hyped, some start boarding the hate train and most people just sit back and wait for the game to come out while doing other things in the meantime. Trying to dissect every piece of leaked info isn't something I'd consider time well spent, but to each their own, I suppose. The fun thing is nobody really cares about anything other than his or her own opinion, making any kind of discussion pointless. Normally you'd have some facts to back up your opinion or arguments, but all the 'facts' we have available at this time are leaks with questionable quality.
Kendo 2 Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 And what's the point of complaining about complaining again? I mean, your opinion is better because you're excited and want to hear positive things, while my opinion is not because I'm voicing my criticism? I don't see why should I care about anyone's excitement and stop myself from saying what I want to say - or try to stop you from saying what you want to say for that matter. Let me paraphrase; opinions are like asses: some nice and round, some ugly and saggy, but nobody forces you to look or comment on them. For the purposes of this thread 'negativity' is when someone points out the obvious and comments on it. 'There are only 70 perk slots on the interface.' 'The animations look stiff.' 'You start the game married with a baby.' 'They're using body scaling again.' Pointing those things out and saying anything other than 'Bethesda is great for doing it' earns you the lable of troll and and invites internet people to correct your thinking. I'm used to chickenshit members here following me from thread to thread to tear apart what I type or to disagree with me just for the sake of disagreeing with me. I laugh it off and post what I want to post. Believe me, their ignorant bullshit rents more room in their own heads than it does in mine. I kinda get a kick out it; reading their fuming and squirming posts since they are powerless to do anything but bitch about what other people post. Why they care is a mystery...but I don't care. That's obvious too. Oh yeah, and more gameplay footage of the dog walking in circles and doing nothing during combat....and Bethesda is awesome for having it that way.
Coopervane Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Did I say I was excited? Did I say that my opinion was better? The whole point of my post is that I have been coming to this thread for the last week or so and watched it devolve from a discussion about possibilities into a Pre-emptive witch hunt, for all intents and purposes. I have watched Community Contributors devolve into hurtful arguments..... over opinions about something that IS NOT EVEN OUT YET... It's not a healthy environment at the moment, and I see no pleasure to be gained from the thread in its current state, unless bitching for bitching's sake is what gets some people off... this is the internet, so... sure that's a possibility. I have always loved the LL community, save for one or two bad apples it has always come across as a community that is overall positive, and adult enough to settle differences in debate, rather than shit slinging.... but the last 10 - 12 pages is a tarnish to that image. I am not saying that you are not entitled to your criticism.... but there are only so many times "Looks terrible" needs to be said about screenshots.... there are only so many times it needs highlighting that this game might not live up to your expectations. I am not asking for people to blindly fangasm over something... that would be just as redundant as tearing it apart, because.... it isnt out yet... I am just looking for some neutrality.... and civility between the opposing sides. Hate to see people in this community sniping at each other. *sigh* Let me put it this way: We're dealing with a long-standing franchise, which has had a fanbase for a long time, that is about to undergo two major changes that may, and will have consequences. Two major tenents of the game, that this community especially has held near and dear to their hearts, is about to change, and nobody here fully knows what the fallout of this will be yet. What are those changes? 1) Character creation: The fans of both Bethesda's TES and Fallout franchises are used to an extremely open ended approach to character creation. One in which you could make nearly any kind of character that you want, which has attracted a wide selection of people to these games in the first place, because it was giving them something that they were not getting elsewhere. Now, we're looking at a new game from them which is putting rather severe limitations on this aspect of the game, a change that some may be alright with, others feel excludes them, and a few like myself find a complete dealbreaker. But ultimately, it's damn near a complete 180 compared to what we used to expect from this company. 2) The modding scene: Do i even need to explain the importance of the PC modding scene of the TES and FO games and what it means to people here? I think not.. Now though, Bethesda is changing the rules. To what? Nobody knows! It could be as benign as "it will remain unchanged, but now mods can also be made for Consoles", or it could be as devestating to this community as "There will now be DRM on mods, no sexual content can be made! All mods MUST be uploaded to Bethesda.net and verified by our admins! Modders in violation of our terms will be prosicuted!". And not a single one of us here knows what to make of it yet. And you expect people not to discuss this? To not speculate about it? To not raise any critisisms or concearns of it or what this could mean to us as individuals or as a community? Just because: "it's not out yet"? Slutofshades.. how exactly did you think this was going to go down with an established fanbase, and one on the internet, of all places?
panthercom Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I'm reserving all judgements on the game until I have it in my hot little hands. We all have the choice to not buy it if we think it sucks, or to mod it when the tools are available. Bethesda is not Santa Claus, they are a corporation that's in business to turn a profit. I'm sure there are people out there bitterly disappointed because they can't create a little anime girly right out of the box and run around screaming 'Onichan! Don't! That's dirty!' I'm glad we have the option to add some seasonings if we don't like what's on our plate. Nuff' said.
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