Unforgiving Devices

[belegost]

On 5/26/2025 at 8:05 AM, scoul73 said:

The orgasm bar does not work at all. I tried the fixes mentioned earlier in the thread (disabling iWantWidgets, resetting the UI, moving areas, restarting the game, reloading saves) and none worked

I have no issues with it. It shows, up, fills and empties according to device activity, and when full forces an orgasm and immediately depletes after that. But I need to state I do not have iWantWigets installed, nor have I ever had it installed on my current load order. So, for me it works fine with vanilla bars.

 

On 5/26/2025 at 8:05 AM, scoul73 said:

I am not personally a fan of OSL Aroused mechanics. I am under the impression that most of the LL community still uses various types of SL Aroused, and I find it a curious choice whenever a new mod requires OSL Aroused.

I share the sentiment. Only installed OSL because UD 3.0 simply did not work with the SLAX version I had (one of the rebuilds of it, endorsed by @Hex Bolt him/her/Apache helicopter-self).

However OSL's proprietary arousal mechanic is erm... well, it's shit. Especially when paired with mods like DIN or any other that has events that rely on arousal. Because it means that events that are supposed to happen at high arousal will happen every single time, since NPCs all walk around with high arousal due to that whole "lewdness" thingamajig.

 

I switched it to legacy mechanic and now I have the opposite problem: all the NPC's never exceed 30 arousal and most of them has it at 20-25. I can stand in front of them stark naked for a long time and it barely raises a few points.

In contrast now my own character is constantly at 100 arousal and I have to manually take it down to zero every so often, because her arousal raises very quickly. Takes only several in-game hours to reach maximum, even when not naked, not dressed in revealing/sexy/slutty clothes, not an exhibitionist, in the middle of the wilderness with no naked actors, or any other actors in line of sight, not wearing any devices, etc.

 

On 5/26/2025 at 8:05 AM, scoul73 said:

my struggle attempts were producing almost no crits. I got zero crit opportunities when struggling out of the heavy bondage, on three different attempts in a row. I did get a struggle crit on the fourth attempt, but it had a very small effect. I did get lock crit opportunities for locking belts/bras and struggle crits on easy-struggle devices like blindfolds. It feels like the difficulty is scaled to produce fewer crits, and weaker ones, for harder devices. If that is true, I suggest reworking the system. When crits are not happening for an entire device struggle, there is no "minigame" anymore.

 

I noticed this for Abadon devices. I have spent a good chunk of time in them and I have never had a single crit when struggling out of them. It just never happens with Abadon anything. Doesn't matter if it's a weak or normal Abadon device.

I did have crits on heavy devices but they did not occur as often as on other ones. And yes, the crit does not move the bar any significant distance, even when the stat responsible for the given struggle (i.e Destruction skill) is high and a lot of perks have been put to it. On the other had, the "easy" devices can sometimes be struggled out with just one attempt and one-two crits.

I do use Vokriinator though (combination of Ordinator and Vokrii) for my perk tree overhaul. Perhaps there is some conflict here.

 

 

=====================================

Two other things I noticed and I already wrote about one of them previously:

 

The "lock menus" feature does not work with plugs. Any plugs. I initially said I only tested Abadon plugs, but since then I had a chance to test others as well. This applies to "lock debug menu" feature as well.

 

"Sweetroll bandit" modifier doesn't seem to work either. Snatching a sweetroll didn't allow for struggling or removing of the device. Fortunately the modifier was on a plug, and thanks to the issue above, I could just remove it through debug.

Edited May 27, 2025 by belegost

[Herowynne]

On 5/25/2025 at 10:35 AM, Herowynne said:

I created another MO2 profile with a minimal mod list, primarily just UD 3.0 and its requirements. No lag spikes. So now I will try to identify which of the hundreds of mods I normally use don't play well with UD 3.0.

 

Spent all day testing and determined the problem occurs with the combination of Deviously Cursed Loot (DCL) SE 9.0 and UD 3.0.

 

After switching from Unforgiving Devices 2.1.1 to 3.0, I am now seeing half-second freezes when running in the open world. These freezes occur when crossing exterior cell boundaries.

 

UD 2.1.1 + DCL SE 9.0 --> No problem

UD 3.0 without DCL SE 9.0 --> No problem

UD 3.0 + DCL SE 9.0 --> half-second freezes when crossing exterior cell boundaries while running in the Skyrim worldspace.

 

[ihatemykite]

So for some time I'm trying to find out what is causing the issue with orgasm bar, and still can't make any real progress. Only update is that I think I managed to isolate the Pull Request which have introduced this issue (with help of one person on discord). So, I would like for the people having the issue to test the last nb version before the mentioned changes. If it works, I will know 100% where the issue is. If it will not, it's back to the drawing board.

 

Lastly, I have a question. Is there anyone who use IWW and for whom the orgasm meter works ? As it works for me (so I can't replicate the issue). But I'm starting to think that might be because I have some custom/edited plugins, or some garbage from developing UD that overwrite the scripts from 3.0

 

Here is the mentioned version. Note that this is only for testing. Don't try to use it on an existing save, and don't try to play with it. Just make new game and test if the bar works

Download: UnforgivingDevices_PRNB.zip

 

Edited May 27, 2025 by ihatemykite

[ihatemykite]

9 minutes ago, Herowynne said:

 

Spent all day testing and determined the problem occurs with the combination of Deviously Cursed Loot (DCL) SE 9.0 and UD 3.0.

 

After switching from Unforgiving Devices 2.1.1 to 3.0, I am now seeing half-second freezes when running in the open world. These freezes occur when crossing exterior cell boundaries.

 

UD 2.1.1 + DCL SE 9.0 --> No problem

UD 3.0 without DCL SE 9.0 --> No problem

UD 3.0 + DCL SE 9.0 --> half-second freezes when crossing exterior cell boundaries while running in the Skyrim worldspace.

 

How often does the freezes happen ? Is it in some set interval or random ?

[ihatemykite]

3 hours ago, belegost said:

I have no issues with it. It shows, up, fills and empties according to device activity, and when full forces an orgasm and immediately depletes after that. But I need to state I do not have iWantWigets installed, nor have I ever had it installed on my current load order. So, for me it works fine with vanilla bars.

 

I share the sentiment. Only installed OSL because UD 3.0 simply did not work with the SLAX version I had (one of the rebuilds of it, endorsed by @Hex Bolt him/her/Apache helicopter-self).

However OSL's proprietary arousal mechanic is erm... well, it's shit. Especially when paired with mods like DIN or any other that has events that rely on arousal. Because it means that events that are supposed to happen at high arousal will happen every single time, since NPCs all walk around with high arousal due to that whole "lewdness" thingamajig.

 

I switched it to legacy mechanic and now I have the opposite problem: all the NPC's never exceed 30 arousal and most of them has it at 20-25. I can stand in front of them stark naked for a long time and it barely raises a few points.

In contrast now my own character is constantly at 100 arousal and I have to manually take it down to zero every so often, because her arousal raises very quickly. Takes only several in-game hours to reach maximum, even when not naked, not dressed in revealing/sexy/slutty clothes, not an exhibitionist, in the middle of the wilderness with no naked actors, or any other actors in line of sight, not wearing any devices, etc.

 

 

I noticed this for Abadon devices. I have spent a good chunk of time in them and I have never had a single crit when struggling out of them. It just never happens with Abadon anything. Doesn't matter if it's a weak or normal Abadon device.

I did have crits on heavy devices but they did not occur as often as on other ones. And yes, the crit does not move the bar any significant distance, even when the stat responsible for the given struggle (i.e Destruction skill) is high and a lot of perks have been put to it. On the other had, the "easy" devices can sometimes be struggled out with just one attempt and one-two crits.

I do use Vokriinator though (combination of Ordinator and Vokrii) for my perk tree overhaul. Perhaps there is some conflict here.

 

 

=====================================

Two other things I noticed and I already wrote about one of them previously:

 

The "lock menus" feature does not work with plugs. Any plugs. I initially said I only tested Abadon plugs, but since then I had a chance to test others as well. This applies to "lock debug menu" feature as well.

 

"Sweetroll bandit" modifier doesn't seem to work either. Snatching a sweetroll didn't allow for struggling or removing of the device. Fortunately the modifier was on a plug, and thanks to the issue above, I could just remove it through debug.

• Its not like I prefer OSL. The reason why I used is that it was in active development and with github repo I could make PR to. The only reason the OSL is available is that I actually pushed the changes which made UD compatible (create the simple API for native plugins). No other arousal mod have this (or at least I'm not aware of any). As I said before that is because the arousal is update on every frame. But note that this is only internal value in OSL. It will not trigger update arousal event on every frame (which is what most arousal mods use for updating), but instead only once per second. Lastly, and maybe most importantly, orgasm calculation (which includes arousal update) is not done in main thread of the game, but instead in separate thread. So it cant have impact on main game Actually, double checking it, this is not true, I forget that the thread will pause until they are joined. I will update it, but it should still currently provide better speed when updating multiple actors at once, as it will be done asynchronously. If other arousal mods will also make native API which can be called, then I will make them compatible. But until then, there is nothing to do for me (except for developing the API myself again if the mod will be open source). Option with using Papyrus as default option would be also possible in theory, but will require quite a lot of work to implement, so I would rather keep it as last option.
• So are crits not happening at all or very rarely. As I think I fixed the bug where the crit chances were used incorrectly. Because of that, the chance was much bigger then expected. This might be why it seems very rare. Still, during testing, it didnt seems too rare for me. Yeah, sometimes, there was not single crit in minigame. But then I could get 2 in single minigame. This is just how random works. If crit chance is 10% (which is very big, most devices have chance around 7%), then on average you will get one crit per 10 seconds. And if you at most manage to struggle for 5 seconds, it makes sense you will sometimes not even see the crit. Only think I can do is to add MCM multiplier variable so users can adjust the crit chance, but that can make some devices very trivial. If you find some specific abadon device or patched device type which you think needs rebalancing, let me know, but I need to also hear how would change it. In most cases I tried to balance the crits by making them either rare and powerful, or not rare but weak.
• What exactly is not working with "lock menus" and plugs ? Like some option is still available in MCM even with this option ?
• Modifiers are not my current expertise. Note for @iivanvv

[ihatemykite]

If anyone is having issue with Synthesis, one possible fix I found out is to change version of Mutagen and Synthesis to Match version. From my understanding, both Mutagen and Synthesis is not backward compatible, so some old patchers can be broken with new versions of synthesis. This option should fix it as it should use same version which was used for developing the patcher. And I dont really understand why this option is not enabled by default.

[belegost]

18 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

So are crits not happening at all or very rarely.

I personally am fine with how crits are happening on regular devices. I too sometimes do not get a crit for one,  maybe two attempts in a row. I explain it myself that it may be because I'm trying to get to the back lock on chastity belt or the device is a tricky one. That's all fine.

 

However, as I said, I have not yet had a single one on an Abadon device. Until l actually managed to level up my skills, getting out of them was a real chore and it took long enough, that those that had evolution trait, did evolve into harder versions. I even disabled the trait that equips other devices, because I couldn't get out fast enough to not have it reverted back at some point.

 

With better skills, struggling out is a bit faster, but the crits are not happening. I do however struggle solo, and not with the help of NPCs. Perhaps I might have had crits if I used help, but I am currently in no position to test it.

Edited May 27, 2025 by belegost

[Herowynne]

On 5/18/2025 at 5:08 AM, Yukitemi said:

Idk if that helps to pin point the problem, but for me it doesn't drop fps... I think. But it does cause freezes for a second or two periodically when running in exterior cells. When idling around it doesn't.

 

Are you using Deviously Cursed Loot?

[ihatemykite]

8 minutes ago, belegost said:

I personally am fine with how crits are happening on regular devices. I too sometimes do not get a crit for one,  maybe two attempts in a row. I explain it myself that it may be because I'm trying to get to the back lock on chastity belt or the device is a tricky one. That's all fine.

 

However, as I said, I have not yet had a single one on an Abadon device. Until l actually managed to level up my skills, getting out of them was a real chore and it took long enough, that those that had evolution trait, did evolve into harder versions. I even disabled the trait that equips other devices, because I couldn't get out fast enough to not have it reverted back at some point.

 

With better skills, struggling out is a bit faster, but the crits are not happening. I do however struggle solo, and not with the help of NPCs. Perhaps I might have had crits if I used help, but I am currently in no position to test it.

And are the crits not happening for any minigame or only lockpick/unlock one ? As these minigames works little different. They dont have set crit chance. Instead the lock accessibility will be chance of crit. And the accessibility is change based on equipped other device. For example, when you wear hood, it reduces accessibility for blindfolds and gags. Also, blindfold reduce lock accessibility to all locks when worn. Based on combination of devices, the chance can get very, very small. If it reaches 0%, the minigame will not even show. BUT, if you have telekinesis, it will show, but crit chance will be 0% if you dont use it. Maybe this is the issue ?

[Herowynne]

52 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

How often does the freezes happen ? Is it in some set interval or random ?

 

As I said, the freezes occur when crossing exterior cell boundaries while running in the open world (Skyrim worldspace).

 

My guess is that the freezes occur when the new cell is loaded, perhaps during the processing of the things in the new cell that is loaded.

 

It's not time based. It is movement/location based. It always occurs in the same places in the open world.

 

It is 100% reproducible. It happens on an existing game that is several play hours old. It also happens on a new game right after going into the world from Alternate Start.

 

It happens regardless of whether the player character is wearing devices or not.

 

It happens when UD 3.0 is used together with DCL SE 9.0. It does not happen when UD 3.0 is used without DCL SE 9.0 (for me).

 

 

Edited May 27, 2025 by Herowynne

[belegost]

20 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

And are the crits not happening for any minigame or only lockpick/unlock one

I'm sorry, I was talking about struggle minigame exclusively. Most of the time I do not possess keys and I do not waste lockpicks for Abadon devices, since they have master-level locks and a lot of shields. Struggling is just faster and less frustrating, what with the jamming mechanic and what not.

 

So what I meant was: crits do not happen in struggle minigame on any Abadon device.

 

45 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

What exactly is not working with "lock menus" and plugs ? Like some option is still available in MCM even with this option ?

 

A graphical explanation:

 

My setup:

 

Vaginal plug:

 

Anal plug:

 

In the above examples debug panel and all other menus are available and can be edited (incorrect behaviour). This occurs for any plug, both regular and Abadon, inflatable, soul gem, simple, etc.

 

Nipple piercing (or any other non-plug device):

 

When adding any non-plug device the debug panel and all the other menus are greyed out and can't be edited (correct behaviour).

Edited May 27, 2025 by belegost

[ihatemykite]

19 minutes ago, Herowynne said:

 

As I said, the freezes occur when crossing exterior cell boundaries while running in the open world (Skyrim worldspace).

 

My guess is that the freezes occur when the new cell is loaded, perhaps during the processing of the things in the new cell that is loaded.

 

It's not time based. It is movement/location based. It always occurs in the same places in the open world.

 

It is 100% reproducible. It happens on an existing game that is several play hours old. It also happens on a new game right after going into the world from Alternate Start.

 

It happens regardless of whether the player character is wearing devices or not.

 

It happens when UD 3.0 is used together with DCL SE 9.0. It does not happen when UD 3.0 is used without DCL SE 9.0 (for me).

 

 

I cant really see connection between UD, DCL and changing cells. Can see why the game performance can be worse when using UD and DCL, but that would cause issue all the time. Not just when changing cells. Only thing I can think of is that DCL fires some event on cell change that uses some function that UD replaces with own implementation. but that is impossible to tell without having some data. Maybe you can try to use some papyrus profiler to see what is being called ? Also, maybe you can try to remove the UDNative.dll and see if it will disappear. Note that UD will be broken, but you said that you didnt use any devices anyway so it should hopefully not matter.

7 minutes ago, belegost said:

I'm sorry, I was talking about struggle minigame exclusively. Most of the time I do not possess keys and I do not waste lockpicks for Abadon devices, since they have master-level locks and a lot of shields. Struggling is just faster and less frustrating, what with the jamming mechanic and what not.

 

So what I meant was: crits do not happen in struggle minigame on any Abadon device.

 

 

A graphical explanation:

 

My setup:

 

Vaginal plug:

 

Anal plug:

 

Nipple piercing (or any other non-plug device):

• And that is case of all Abadon devices ? Every single one ? Or only some of them ?
• Interesting bug. Will check it out

[belegost]

8 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

And that is case of all Abadon devices ? Every single one ? Or only some of them ?

All of them I encountered so far.

 

One other thing that may or may not be a bug: contrary to regular chastity belt and bra, Abadon chastity belts and chastity bras can be struggled out of and do not require key or lockpick exclusively. Also all Abadon devices, regardless of the type are very susceptible to magic and very resistant to other types of struggles. Playing as destruction mage make all Abadon struggles easy, especially at high skill level, despite lack of crits.

Edited May 27, 2025 by belegost

[Herowynne]

2 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

Also, maybe you can try to remove the UDNative.dll

 

Okay, I did this test. UD 3.0 + DCL SE 9.0 and I hid UDNative.dll in MO2. No freezes. Smooth running across exterior cell boundaries.

 

With UDNative.dll hidden in MO2, I got a popup from UD about being unable to detect ConsoleUtil.

 

[Herowynne]

4 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

Maybe you can try to use some papyrus profiler to see what is being called ?

 

I used this Papyrus Profiler: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/82770

 

I don't know how useful it is, since it only counts calls to Papyrus functions and does not record how long they take to execute.

 

Here is the output from the profiler:

Skip30sec_Profile1min_Profile_0.log

 

As recommended by the profiler's author, I used this website to visualize the profiler log output: https://www.speedscope.app/

 

This was a 60 second play session covered by the log and there were 5 freezes that occurred during that time while running across cell boundaries.

 

This test was done with UDNative.dll active (not hidden in MO2), so freezes did occur. As I mentioned in the post above, no freezes occur when UDNative.dll is hidden.

 

In the graph, around the 14000 mark, there is an obvious large chunk of function calls to UD. I selected that chunk in the screenshot below.

 

Edited May 27, 2025 by Herowynne

[Yukitemi]

6 hours ago, Herowynne said:

Are you using Deviously Cursed Loot?

Yes I have +Devious Curses if that's related to traps. I had traps in DCL turned to 0, but it might not stop it from running checks. So I might test without DCL as well if I get time to do so.

[iivanvv]

16 hours ago, belegost said:

"Sweetroll bandit" modifier doesn't seem to work either. Snatching a sweetroll didn't allow for struggling or removing of the device. Fortunately the modifier was on a plug, and thanks to the issue above, I could just remove it through debug.

 

Checked it. There are inconsistencies in the description, but the general logic works. To unlock the mini-games you have to steal a roll.

 

Did you start a new game, or are you using a save from previous versions (before the 3.0 release)?

[belegost]

1 hour ago, iivanvv said:

 

Checked it. There are inconsistencies in the description, but the general logic works. To unlock the mini-games you have to steal a roll.

 

Did you start a new game, or are you using a save from previous versions (before the 3.0 release)?

New game. But I did try to cheese it by putting a sweetroll in owned container first, then stealing it.

 

Which modifier is responsible for this? I use At Your Own Pace and I often play characters that do not steal at all, so Brynjolf can fuck off. I don't want to break the habit and commit a crime, even for a sweetroll, so I'd like to turn it off.

Edited May 28, 2025 by belegost

[iivanvv]

33 minutes ago, belegost said:

Which modifier is responsible for this?

 

It is Sweet Roll Thief.

 

Select modifier.

 

 

And zero out the probability at the bottom.

 

 

Or you could turn GAME tag off on MCM -> UD -> Custom Modifier Tags page to no longer see modifiers that interfere with minigames. And I'll add a special tag for modifiers that require committing crimes. In the future, it will be possible to turn that tag off to address disabling modifiers that force crimes.

 

But even now, this modifier has a workaround (undocumented). It turns the block off after 30 minutes of real time.

[Strish]

Всем привет, я поставил  Unforgiving Devices 3.0 в соответствии со всеми требованиями, но когда на жгг надеты устройства из DD 5.2, этот мод их не видит, и в меню они не указаны в действиях там, где устройство только для устройства из UD 3.0, это проблема или так и должно быть?
я почему то не могу прикрепить скриншоты поэтому оставлю ссылку на яндекс диск https://disk.yandex.ru/d/9lmXoI9LSI2itw там 2 фото 1 под номером 5 это с устройствами DDSE 5.2 как видно вылетает ошибка в консоли (под номером 7) и нету устройств в меню, 2 фото (номер 6) это устройства из мода Unforgiving Devices 3.0

Edited May 28, 2025 by Strish
дополнение информации

[Meeps]

22 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

If anyone is having issue with Synthesis, one possible fix I found out is to change version of Mutagen and Synthesis to Match version. From my understanding, both Mutagen and Synthesis is not backward compatible, so some old patchers can be broken with new versions of synthesis. This option should fix it as it should use same version which was used for developing the patcher. And I dont really understand why this option is not enabled by default.

 

It works with latest if ya tick the Auto in the Patcher just above it!

If anybody is having trouble with Synthesis here is a good step by step guide for its use.
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/articles/52942

Edited May 28, 2025 by Meeps

[Vollkornstulle]

Small bug:

When devices are added while you use the debug option "UNLOCK ALL", the mod bugs out real bad.

I had this issue when a Abadon Plug was part of a set as it adds a bunch of devices while the unlocking script is still running.

There is some strange popup about the newly added devices being unknown and added to the mod, which is weird as they are all always Abadon devices and as such already recognized.

At that point not even the innate funtion of DD works properly and the unequipped devices don´t drop items/gold and the equip script for the Abadon Plug removal fires randomly upon activating any remove all script you can use from other mods.

 

Simple solution for now: Manually remove the plug by selecting them in the debug menu first and after all plugs are off and the scripts are no longer running, just use the remove all function. It works just fine as long as there is no Abadon Plug.

[ihatemykite]

20 hours ago, Herowynne said:

 

I used this Papyrus Profiler: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/82770

 

I don't know how useful it is, since it only counts calls to Papyrus functions and does not record how long they take to execute.

 

Here is the output from the profiler:

Skip30sec_Profile1min_Profile_0.log 284.08 kB · 0 downloads

 

As recommended by the profiler's author, I used this website to visualize the profiler log output: https://www.speedscope.app/

 

This was a 60 second play session covered by the log and there were 5 freezes that occurred during that time while running across cell boundaries.

 

This test was done with UDNative.dll active (not hidden in MO2), so freezes did occur. As I mentioned in the post above, no freezes occur when UDNative.dll is hidden.

 

In the graph, around the 14000 mark, there is an obvious large chunk of function calls to UD. I selected that chunk in the screenshot below.

 

Thanks. I'm still not sure what is happening, as the most called functions have nothing to do with cells. UD mostly calls the orgasm update, which use the native plugin, but that have nothing to do with cells. Are you using Papyrus Tweaks ?

1 hour ago, Vollkornstulle said:

Small bug:

When devices are added while you use the debug option "UNLOCK ALL", the mod bugs out real bad.

I had this issue when a Abadon Plug was part of a set as it adds a bunch of devices while the unlocking script is still running.

There is some strange popup about the newly added devices being unknown and added to the mod, which is weird as they are all always Abadon devices and as such already recognized.

At that point not even the innate funtion of DD works properly and the unequipped devices don´t drop items/gold and the equip script for the Abadon Plug removal fires randomly upon activating any remove all script you can use from other mods.

 

Simple solution for now: Manually remove the plug by selecting them in the debug menu first and after all plugs are off and the scripts are no longer running, just use the remove all function. It works just fine as long as there is no Abadon Plug.

This is strange, as it should be impossible for locking and unlocking to happen at once for single actor. But maybe something got broken again. Will check, but will first have to figure out how to replicate this issue.

[TurboTospa]

When ı activate this mod pc locks itself to 50 fps. Gpu usage won't even exceed %30 or so. I tried everything what should ı do?

[Herowynne]

2 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

Are you using Papyrus Tweaks ?

 

I am using Papyrus Tweaks NG https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/77779 version 4.1.0, which is the latest version.

 

I set iMaxOpsPerFrame = 1666 per the recommendation from @Inte for their mods.