Devious Devices (Assets)

[carnifex]

Switched to UNPB recently... thank gods for Mod Organizer

[Veladarius]

Zadil is sticking to one body as he has limited free time to devote to this and CBBE was his body of choice at this time. I would rather him spend his time making new items than converting things to other bodies as there are already a number of people around who are quite skilled in that. I have seen the new items he has made and they are very nice (as always).

[Leeeeeroy]

new items?

so we can expect multiple new items for the future update?

and yeah i agree, he must do what pleases him, his work is great and i don't really mind learning how to convert stuff from one body to another, it's pretty good to know this kind of stuff actually

[Mdy]

 

 

 

 

Doesn't unp bodies (unp, unpb, 7b) seem to be much more attractive than CBBE in general?

 

i picked CBBE initially because it seemed to have the most mods that support it out of the box, and i still believe this to be true now. (*takes chance to plug http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/25259 *) (7b seems to be making quite the effort though)  and there are pregnant mods for cbbe as well, if you went looking for them.  and as an obvious point, now devious devices will be cbbe only until someone else decides to convert and share them.

 

in my experience, there are very very few mods that support UNP without also supporting CBBE as well, so really, in purely compatibility terms, cbbe is the clear winner.   If you're really attached to how you look as UNP you could look for a bodyslide preset that looks similar to UNP (i think there is a default in bodyslide that is supposed to simulate unp)

 

or you could go with something like this: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/37546 which changes your body shape to match whatever the armor youre wearing requires.

 

the bottom line though, is zadil doesnt have time to do all his work twice to keep UNP support going, so this is the way its got to be.

 

 

 

Thanks for the effort.
 

Unfortunatelly quantity isn't everything. 7base would be an option, if it had small realistic looking boobs, too.
As for "unp-like (but still cbbe) presets", textures won't match. Real Girls textures are my favorites, even with bugs and they're not compatible with CBBE.

Switching the body with BodyChange will result in a totaly different face, because you need to use other textures than the favs I'd mentioned.


I'm respecting the author of this mod with his/her piece of art, but there was no real argument for me in the previously quoted text.

[Aelie]

your enb/lighting mods will probably have a greater effect on your appearance than your skin texture, in my experience, by the way

[Coopervane]

you realize that its not like it will cease to work next update... you'll just have a little clipping on the new items. most or all of the current gear is already converted

 

It's not that simple, and for 3 main reasons.

 

1. The clipping will not be minor, not at all, the CBBE and UNP meshes are drastically different. Mods will use the new items, and they lock in place, so the fact that it'll look really broken.. it's going to be very hard to ignore.

 

2. Conversions are not garuenteed. Well crafted ones even less so.

 

3. This is not just about DDA and DDI anymore, they are now a framework, and they are likely the framework that we can expect any and all future BDSM themed Skyrim mods to use from now on (why woulden't they?).

And since the framework now only supports CBBE, what do you think mods created for it will do? They will do what you just annouced you'll do with LADL.

 

 

So yeah, all those of us who have waited years for this kind of mod to finally happen for Skyrim, and who just can't stomache the very extreme aesthetic choice that is CBBE.. this could very easilly be the final nail in the coffin that kills any chance of us ever getting to play and enjoy such a mod, and we know it.

 

And now i feel even more depressed, great, just bloody great

[Aelie]

CBBE slim is not quite as 'model' as the base set, but, like i said above, with body slide you can set it up however you like... it really is quite an amazing tool and i refuse to believe you cant make a shape you are pleased with by using it.  as i also said above, you can even set up the sliders to look just like UNP, and thus get the mods and the looks

 

 

2. Conversions are not garuenteed. Well crafted ones even less so.

with outfit studio i was able to convert several outfits from unp to cbbe in about 20-30 minutes each, and with a bit of fiddling afterwords to make some adjustments, i think they look quite nice, and ive never modelled a single thing in my life.  you should give it a shot (and stuff like cuffs and belts are far easier to fit to a body than say, a full dress or armor)

[Mdy]

your enb/lighting mods will probably have a greater effect on your appearance than your skin texture, in my experience, by the way

 

Can't agree, out of experience. Colours, sharpening and subsurface scattering are adaptable.

 

While creating a character the subconscious is telling a story out of every wrinkle, nose 'depth', eye rings, lips and so on that is already in the texture.

A sudden texture change will result in a "that's not the story that has been told to".

 

Example: Simply try the "Mature Skin" and "Real Girls" textures, the name isn't just for fun. Having the same lip mesh but another texture will look like another lip, even with the same tint masks, same goes to everything else.

 

 

Coopervane, well written, being a "Framework" will influence the community even more.

[lkl]

Goodbye to UNPB and hello to cancer. 

[Aelie]

 

your enb/lighting mods will probably have a greater effect on your appearance than your skin texture, in my experience, by the way

 

Can't agree, out of experience. Colours, sharpening and subsurface scattering are adaptable.

While creating a character the subconscious is telling a story out of every wrinkle, nose 'depth', eye rings, lips and so on that is already in the texture

A sudden texture change will result in a "that's not the story that has been told to".

Example: "Mature skin" does look mature, "Real girls" younger. Having the same lip mesh but another texture will look like another lip, even with the same tint masks, same goes to everything else.

 

 

Coopervane, well written, being a "Framework" will influence the community even more.

 

 

I think you misunderstand what my point is.  I'm trying to explain ways you can change to CBBE without much visual change, im not saying its going to be 100% the same (its not but you can get pretty close).  And since zadil has said the choice was "no updates" or "updates but cbbe only", instead of complaining more and more about how youre being shut out of every fetish mod ever, why not spend some time trying to make the new tools work for you (unless you really want to abandon DD because your lips look a little different (note: obvious hyperbole)).  No, its not going to be exactly the same, but like i said above, bodyslide is insanely flexible and you really should be able to set it up to something acceptable for you.

[Aelie]

Goodbye to UNPB and hello to cancer. 

 

clearly a rational summary of what's happening here

[Mdy]

Having the best body texture for unp bodies is a matter of fact and speaks for itself, pardon me if that sounds arrogant, but not why I've chossen it when dimon99 released his work one and a half month after caliente.

The whole shape isn't my kind: the nipples, belly button, curves, shoulders, count of polygons ...

I can still tell the difference between "mature skin + unp" and "mature skin + faked unp(cbbe) bodyslide2 preset" - and I dislike the difference.

 

As I've written, Caliente released 2011, dimon 2012 - only over a month difference, but technically cbbe looks much older and not as realistic.
No offence to Calience, the community work should be honored, it's currently getting celebrated and, well, everything else beside cbbe will be forgotten.

[Aelie]

 

Having the best body texture for unp bodies is a matter of fact and speaks for itself,

seems like a matter of opinion, to me, but really i guess it comes down to what means the most to you.  i've tried what i could to help ease the transition but i can only do so much, sorry! good luck to you though.

[Mdy]

It seems I'm currently too much into Skyrim and am ..frustrated(?) about the lack of unp-love.

Pardon me if I've been too abrasive, thanks for taking part in the discussion and we'll see, maybe your words were helpful.

 

edit

And of course you're right with "matter of opinion".

[Aelie]

 

It seems I'm currently too much into Skyrim and am ..frustrated(?) about the lack of unp-love.

from what i can tell, more people(modders) are going the other way.... now that bodyslide and outfit studio are so sophisticated, they would rather make it for cbbe and let people generate their own personal body shape versions based on sliders they set

 

maybe check this out, it seems to have some kind of texture blender you can tweak to your likes: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/16731

[Zadil]

new items?

so we can expect multiple new items for the future update?

and yeah i agree, he must do what pleases him, his work is great and i don't really mind learning how to convert stuff from one body to another, it's pretty good to know this kind of stuff actually

Compared to previous versions the changelog for the next one will be quite a bit longer, although a lot of it will be the usual changes - you know, like tweaks and fixes and harness and stuff...

 

I'm respecting the author of this mod with his/her piece of art, but there was no real argument for me in the previously quoted text.

I explained the reasoning behind the change in a previous post and see no need to justify it any further.

 

 

you realize that its not like it will cease to work next update... you'll just have a little clipping on the new items. most or all of the current gear is already converted

 

It's not that simple, and for 3 main reasons.

 

1. The clipping will not be minor, not at all, the CBBE and UNP meshes are drastically different. Mods will use the new items, and they lock in place, so the fact that it'll look really broken.. it's going to be very hard to ignore.

 

2. Conversions are not garuenteed. Well crafted ones even less so.

 

3. This is not just about DDA and DDI anymore, they are now a framework, and they are likely the framework that we can expect any and all future BDSM themed Skyrim mods to use from now on (why woulden't they?).

And since the framework now only supports CBBE, what do you think mods created for it will do? They will do what you just annouced you'll do with LADL.

 

 

So yeah, all those of us who have waited years for this kind of mod to finally happen for Skyrim, and who just can't stomache the very extreme aesthetic choice that is CBBE.. this could very easilly be the final nail in the coffin that kills any chance of us ever getting to play and enjoy such a mod, and we know it.

 

And now i feel even more depressed, great, just bloody great

 

Sorry you feel this way, Coopervane, but like I said earlier, it was either that or let this mod slowly stagnate to death. Besides, I'm sure there are other people around here who are equally capable of creating such items for the unpb body and able to dedicate more time to it than me, so who knows, maybe it's not the end for unpb users just yet.

[Veladarius]

I can understand peoples, frustration I guess? It is always frustrating when you see a piece of clothing or armor and it is for a different body than what you are using. I have gone back and forth between UNP( and CBBE a number of times and have separate folders in NMM with mods for both.

 

Now, I don't want anyone to think the following is directed specifically at them or trying to be rude.

 

If a modder has said they are not going to do something stop bitching and complaining about it, all it does is discourage them and make them to not want to do it at all. You should be supporting these people who put all this work in to these things using what spare time they have. Instead either ask someone else who is taking requests or learn to do it yourself.

[Coopervane]

CBBE slim is not quite as 'model' as the base set, but, like i said above, with body slide you can set it up however you like... it really is quite an amazing tool and i refuse to believe you cant make a shape you are pleased with by using it.  as i also said above, you can even set up the sliders to look just like UNP, and thus get the mods and the looks 

 

I do not use CBBE, so i have not had any reason to make use of the Caliente tools. I tried them once as i wanted to try and convert a CBBE outfit to UNP, feeling this might be a usefull thing to do. I slavishly followed the tutorials, but what i found is that it's basically impossible. It may work the other way around, but when i tried to do a CBBE-to-UNP conversion with it, the program decided to load the UNP body at almost twice the scale of the CBBE one for whatever reason, screwing the whole thing up in the process. Sir Coopervane bravely ran away after that disaster.

 

My experiance with it is obviously very limited then, but lets see if i've got the basics down:

 

With a CBBE body, you can use the Bodyslide tool to change the body shape, even get it somewhat clouse to the way UNP looks. Right, but this only applies to the body, as in, the Femaletorso.nif (the one you see when naked), It does not apply to any armor you wear, yes?

To get the armor working, you have to use the Outfit Studio, apply a filter (the bodyslide preset i presume) that will hopefully bring you some of the way, and then manually edit all the stuff that didn't, and this needs to be done twice for the _1 and _0 nifs, this is correct? That is the process that would have to be done?

[Srende]

 

CBBE slim is not quite as 'model' as the base set, but, like i said above, with body slide you can set it up however you like... it really is quite an amazing tool and i refuse to believe you cant make a shape you are pleased with by using it.  as i also said above, you can even set up the sliders to look just like UNP, and thus get the mods and the looks 

 

I do not use CBBE, so i have not had any reason to make use of the Caliente tools. I tried them once as i wanted to try and convert a CBBE outfit to UNP, feeling this might be a usefull thing to do. I slavishly followed the tutorials, but what i found is that it's basically impossible. It may work the other way around, but when i tried to do a CBBE-to-UNP conversion with it, the program decided to load the UNP body at almost twice the scale of the CBBE one for whatever reason, screwing the whole thing up in the process. Sir Coopervane bravely ran away after that disaster.

 

My experiance with it is obviously very limited then, but lets see if i've got the basics down:

 

With a CBBE body, you can use the Bodyslide tool to change the body shape, even get it somewhat clouse to the way UNP looks. Right, but this only applies to the body, as in, the Femaletorso.nif (the one you see when naked), It does not apply to any armor you wear, yes?

To get the armor working, you have to use the Outfit Studio, apply a filter (the bodyslide preset i presume) that will hopefully bring you some of the way, and then manually edit all the stuff that didn't, and this needs to be done twice for the _1 and _0 nifs, this is correct? That is the process that would have to be done?

 

 

If the author has made their armor bodyslide compatible, you can just use bodyslide to generate a version of it for your own custom body shape. I've seen more of armors supporting 2-3+ bodies now after release of bodyslide2.

 

If the author hasn't made the armor bodyslide compatible, you need to do that yourself though with outfit studio. But no, you don't need to do it twice. Basically you convert the armor to a base shape in outfit studio, after which you can use it normally in bodyslide, which generates both _0 and _1 versions based on your custom shape.

[Guest smellbo]

Well, I'm incredibly excited for what the future holds for this mod, and I don't really mind that it will be CBBE only. I use CBBE because it seems a much more wholesome, and better proportioned body than UNP. (I think the UNP head is too small)

[Aelie]

 

I do not use CBBE, so i have not had any reason to make use of the Caliente tools. I tried them once as i wanted to try and convert a CBBE outfit to UNP, feeling this might be a usefull thing to do. I slavishly followed the tutorials, but what i found is that it's basically impossible. It may work the other way around, but when i tried to do a CBBE-to-UNP conversion with it, the program decided to load the UNP body at almost twice the scale of the CBBE one for whatever reason, screwing the whole thing up in the process. Sir Coopervane bravely ran away after that disaster.

i dont know when you tried this, but outfit studio just came out about a month or so ago, and the tutorial is pretty finicky but i was able to get it to work after a little fiddling

 

 

With a CBBE body, you can use the Bodyslide tool to change the body shape, even get it somewhat clouse to the way UNP looks. Right, but this only applies to the body, as in, the Femaletorso.nif (the one you see when naked), It does not apply to any armor you wear, yes?

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/24543-devious-devices-for-bodyslide2/

 

if you save the slider positions you can re-generate all of the devious device meshes on the fly -- in fact the armor set i am using also has bodyslide files, so i can regenerate all of the female armor in the game to fit any shape i make up in the generator, from normal looking to absurdly misproportioned ones (this is as simple as clicking generate meshes after setting the sliders up in the right positions)

[Coopervane]

 

If the author has made their armor bodyslide compatible, you can just use bodyslide to generate a version of it for your own custom body shape. I've seen more of armors supporting 2-3+ bodies now after release of bodyslide2.

 

If the author hasn't made the armor bodyslide compatible, you need to do that yourself though with outfit studio. But no, you don't need to do it twice. Basically you convert the armor to a base shape in outfit studio, after which you can use it normally in bodyslide, which generates both _0 and _1 versions based on your custom shape.

 

I was afraid of that.

 

Basically, this means that if you want to use a different body shape than the vanilla CBBE one, you have to convert all your armors, including all vanilla outfits, to that shape. That sounds like a very overwhelming amount of work even if you can find Bodyslide enabled versions of some of them. How many houers would this amount to.. i can't really wrap my head around that, especially with playtesting it all ontop of it.

 

That would be a very substantial undertaking that would take a very long time to complete, and for very limited payoff (basically just making CBBE look kinda like UNP, when UNP already does that out of the box), and i'd have to continue doing it for every new armor i download and every DDA update from then on, nothing would ever be a drop-in install again.

 

 

I'm really not sure this is going to be a working solution guys, that is a ton of work just to get this working, and i really don't know that i could justify a time commitment like that. I doubt many could.

[Aelie]

 

That sounds like a very overwhelming amount of work even if you can find Bodyslide enabled versions of some of them. How many houers would this amount to.. i can't really wrap my head around that, especially with playtesting it all ontop of it.

try 2-3 minutes? body slide is really quite amazing when you use batch mode, for a while i was regenerating all of the vanilla armors multiple times a day just on a whim "i wish her arms were a little thinner" "hmm i dont really like those legs" "lets give her a little 'boost'"

[Veladarius]

 

 

If the author has made their armor bodyslide compatible, you can just use bodyslide to generate a version of it for your own custom body shape. I've seen more of armors supporting 2-3+ bodies now after release of bodyslide2.

 

If the author hasn't made the armor bodyslide compatible, you need to do that yourself though with outfit studio. But no, you don't need to do it twice. Basically you convert the armor to a base shape in outfit studio, after which you can use it normally in bodyslide, which generates both _0 and _1 versions based on your custom shape.

 

I was afraid of that.

 

Basically, this means that if you want to use a different body shape than the vanilla CBBE one, you have to convert all your armors, including all vanilla outfits, to that shape. That sounds like a very overwhelming amount of work even if you can find Bodyslide enabled versions of some of them. How many houers would this amount to.. i can't really wrap my head around that, especially with playtesting it all ontop of it.

 

That would be a very substantial undertaking that would take a very long time to complete, and for very limited payoff (basically just making CBBE look kinda like UNP, when UNP already does that out of the box), and i'd have to continue doing it for every new armor i download and every DDA update from then on, nothing would ever be a drop-in install again.

 

 

I'm really not sure this is going to be a working solution guys, that is a ton of work just to get this working, and i really don't know that i could justify a time commitment like that. I doubt many could.

 

 

If the armor is already set up for bodyslide it is easy to convert. Once you set up your body how you want using the sliders you save it as a preset. You can then have bodyslide apply that preset to the armors, you can even do multiple items at once. There are 3 mods I use currently covering all the base armors, clothing and BAMM and it takes about 5 minutes to convert all of them to my body.

[Srende]

 

Basically, this means that if you want to use a different body shape than the vanilla CBBE one, you have to convert all your armors, including all vanilla outfits, to that shape. That sounds like a very overwhelming amount of work even if you can find Bodyslide enabled versions of some of them. How many houers would this amount to.. i can't really wrap my head around that, especially with playtesting it all ontop of it.

 

Say you make a custom body shape with bodyslide, and save it as a preset to use with armors. And if the armor supports bodyslide, it really is as simple as opening bodyslide, choose the armor and your own body shape present and clicking "create bodies". Of those steps, creating the shape you prefer is obviously the most time consuming, after wards it's couple of clicks to convert a bodyslide armor to your shape. And like Aelie said, there is a batch mode so converting multiple armors at once works, just need to wait a couple of minutes for it to generate the meshes.